let's talk '17

[Spaceman Spiff]

Been saying that about Randolph for a long time now. Ayton's ranking is beyond moronic though. There's no basis in reality that puts him worse than 3rd in this class.

I will say that it is a pretty stacked class, especially with Bagley reclassing. Bagley, Porter, Bamba, Ayton and maybe even Sexton would be consensus #1's most years. Fultz was the consensus #1 last year, and I think Sexton is fairly close to Fultz and the other 4 are better prospects.

[YoDeFoe]

What blows my mind is the talk about

"Michael Porter & Bagley = KD = Anthony Davis = Giannis"

Not to go full Bilas on y'all, but is everyone aware of the wingspan disparity between those three exceptional pros and the two rising freshmen?

Those pros have wingspans of 7'4" and above.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kevin-Durant-390/" target="_blank
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Davis-6236/" target="_blank
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Gia ... nmpo-7223/" target="_blank

Porter and Bagley are each 6'10" with 7'0" wingspans.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mar ... ley-85466/" target="_blank
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Mic ... ter-83153/" target="_blank

Ayton and Bamba are the genetic freaks that more closely match those pros.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeAndre-Ayton-7302/" target="_blank
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Moh ... mba-91224/" target="_blank

Wingspan isn't the end all be all, but it does make a significant difference on the court. This year, Ayton's absurd combination of a 7'5" wingspan, 7'1" height, 260lbs of heft makes him unique among these prospects.

[SunnyAZ]

I don't think Sexton is anywhere close to Fultz, DSJ, or Fox.

I also think Porter is a lot better than the other prospects in this class.

[Puerco]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think Sexton is anywhere close to Fultz, DSJ, or Fox.

I also think Porter is a lot better than the other prospects in this class.

Funny, I'm less in love with Porter than most, but really like Sexton. Fults, DSJ and Ball were all middling defenders. Sexton really competes on D and brings a lot more than those guys on that end. He doesn't have the distinguishing thing on offense they do but is really solid in all areas.

[Chicat]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

Your new nickname is T-Rex. Embrace it (if possible).

[Longhorned]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

No, but you surely meet some alien culture's ideal form of a supine man inscribable in an oval and rectangle.

Are art history jokes funny?

[threenumberones]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

Your new nickname is T-Rex. Embrace it (if possible).

[Puerco]

My roommates used to walk around acting like tyrannosaurs -- you know, the short arms and roaring shtick? Woulda been funnier if they weren't midgets who sucked at basketball. Jerks.

[rgdeuce]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

That's the worst I have heard. I have a 5'10" wingspan and I'm 6'3"

[Spaceman Spiff]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

That's the worst I have heard. I have a 5'10" wingspan and I'm 6'3"

You guys should try being competitive bench pressers. There aren't a whole lot of times short arms help you out. Bench pressing is one.

On the other hand, I assume Bol Bol can bench approx 50 lb because he has to move it 3/4 mile.

[EOCT]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

No, but you surely meet some alien culture's ideal form of a supine man inscribable in an oval and rectangle.

Are art history jokes funny?

What were Duchamp's first words? "Dada"

[gumby]

Wingspan... Now that explains it. I guess my 5'2" wingspan on my 6' frame isn't really conducive to excelling at hoops.

No, but you surely meet some alien culture's ideal form of a supine man inscribable in an oval and rectangle.

Are art history jokes funny?

Sure. Why not tell one?

[NYCat]

Here we go

[Beachcat97]

Here we go

I still don't think Duke wins it all.

[psiclist23]

Guy must be a real genius to do all that schoolwork in a couple of weeks.

edit: oh, wait, it's Duke.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Guy must be a real genius to do all that schoolwork in a couple of weeks.

edit: oh, wait, it's Duke.

Yeah. Duke doesn't have eligibility issues.

[midnightx]

Guy must be a real genius to do all that schoolwork in a couple of weeks.

edit: oh, wait, it's Duke.

Yeah. Duke doesn't have eligibility issues.

And Duke is only one of the most difficult academic institutions to get into in the entire country, yet any kid who wants to play basketball there qualifies. The NCAA ensures eligibility for their beloved Coach K and a corrupt admissions department at Duke let's in kids who for the most part could never qualify academically.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Guy must be a real genius to do all that schoolwork in a couple of weeks.

edit: oh, wait, it's Duke.

Yeah. Duke doesn't have eligibility issues.

And Duke is only one of the most difficult academic institutions to get into in the entire country, yet any kid who wants to play basketball there qualifies. The NCAA ensures eligibility for their beloved Coach K and a corrupt admissions department at Duke let's in kids who for the most part could never qualify academically.

Duke just isn't any different than anyone else. It doesn't bother me that Duke does what they do. Every big time school has different rules for athletes. It does bother me when people try to act like Duke and K are better than the norm. It's the same game as Cal and Kentucky or anyone else.

[zonagrad]

Guy must be a real genius to do all that schoolwork in a couple of weeks.

edit: oh, wait, it's Duke.

Yeah. Duke doesn't have eligibility issues.

I'm still mystified by the Corey Magette "non scandal."

[midnightx]

Guy must be a real genius to do all that schoolwork in a couple of weeks.

edit: oh, wait, it's Duke.

Yeah. Duke doesn't have eligibility issues.

And Duke is only one of the most difficult academic institutions to get into in the entire country, yet any kid who wants to play basketball there qualifies. The NCAA ensures eligibility for their beloved Coach K and a corrupt admissions department at Duke let's in kids who for the most part could never qualify academically.

Duke just isn't any different than anyone else. It doesn't bother me that Duke does what they do. Every big time school has different rules for athletes. It does bother me when people try to act like Duke and K are better than the norm. It's the same game as Cal and Kentucky or anyone else.

Not really. Calipari is at Kentucky. It is a basic state school that nearly any athlete can qualify for. The admission standards are average, just like Arizona. A coach can get practically any kid to qualify. Duke is at a different level, up with the Ivy League schools as far as acceptance difficulty is concerned. It is one thing to have looser admission standards at state schools like Kansas, Kentucky and Arizona; and it is entirely something different to get some of these athletes into Duke. In all seriousness, with all the nonsense the NCAA spends its time on, one would think they would look at the admission standards of Duke basketball. Every five star athlete who wants to play for Coach K cannot possibly meet Duke's general admission standards. Looser standards at Duke are still going to be significantly more difficult to meet than the major state school programs. People want Carolina to get the death penalty because of academic fraud, yet no one questions how these kids get into Duke. One keeps seeing headlines about Duke and Kentucky owning basketball recruiting, well the reality is that Duke should not be able to own recruiting like Kentucky because of its elite academic requirements. It is a joke.

[zonagrad]

Should we care more about a school lowering its academic standards to accommodate an athlete or the fact that the athlete receives a degree in a joke of a major thanks to made up classes, tutoring and whatever else it takes to keep them eligible in the eyes of the NCAA.

[Beachcat97]

Should we care more about a school lowering its academic standards to accommodate an athlete or the fact that the athlete receives a degree in a joke of a major thanks to made up classes, tutoring and whatever else it takes to keep them eligible in the eyes of the NCAA.

I'd say the latter. I'm all for flexible standards and giving young people a shot, especially when the applicant has shown a commitment to his/her education. Not everyone graduates from HS (or college, for that matter) with a 3.0 GPA. You do have to draw the line somewhere. If Bagley has a 1.5 GPA and got into Duke, that's pretty ridiculous. But chances are, his GPA was adequate, just beneath the level of the average student admitted to Duke.

If schools are changing the actual academic standards for admitted students, that's a bigger problem, imo. It creates a deeper culture of academic dishonesty and institutional corruption.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yeah. Duke doesn't have eligibility issues.

And Duke is only one of the most difficult academic institutions to get into in the entire country, yet any kid who wants to play basketball there qualifies. The NCAA ensures eligibility for their beloved Coach K and a corrupt admissions department at Duke let's in kids who for the most part could never qualify academically.

Duke just isn't any different than anyone else. It doesn't bother me that Duke does what they do. Every big time school has different rules for athletes. It does bother me when people try to act like Duke and K are better than the norm. It's the same game as Cal and Kentucky or anyone else.

Not really. Calipari is at Kentucky. It is a basic state school that nearly any athlete can qualify for. The admission standards are average, just like Arizona. A coach can get practically any kid to qualify. Duke is at a different level, up with the Ivy League schools as far as acceptance difficulty is concerned. It is one thing to have looser admission standards at state schools like Kansas, Kentucky and Arizona; and it is entirely something different to get some of these athletes into Duke. In all seriousness, with all the nonsense the NCAA spends its time on, one would think they would look at the admission standards of Duke basketball. Every five star athlete who wants to play for Coach K cannot possibly meet Duke's general admission standards. Looser standards at Duke are still going to be significantly more difficult to meet than the major state school programs. People want Carolina to get the death penalty because of academic fraud, yet no one questions how these kids get into Duke. One keeps seeing headlines about Duke and Kentucky owning basketball recruiting, well the reality is that Duke should not be able to own recruiting like Kentucky because of its elite academic requirements. It is a joke.

There's a difference between meeting standards and being a guy who would be admitted on his own merit. It may be more glaring with Duke, but a lot of top recruits aren't really competitive candidates at state schools.

Kentucky's freshman class averages a B+ gpa and 1090 to 1320 (out of 1600) SAT. The NCAA minimum threshold is 2.3 gpa and 890 SAT. You'll obviously never know about an individual, but if there is any issue with potential ineligibility, they're probably well below what that college would normally want.

[midnightx]

Should we care more about a school lowering its academic standards to accommodate an athlete or the fact that the athlete receives a degree in a joke of a major thanks to made up classes, tutoring and whatever else it takes to keep them eligible in the eyes of the NCAA.

I'd say the latter. I'm all for flexible standards and giving young people a shot, especially when the applicant has shown a commitment to his/her education. Not everyone graduates from HS (or college, for that matter) with a 3.0 GPA. You do have to draw the line somewhere. If Bagley has a 1.5 GPA and got into Duke, that's pretty ridiculous. But chances are, his GPA was adequate, just beneath the level of the average student admitted to Duke.

It should be noted that it is very difficult to get accepted into Duke, it is among the most difficult of institutions to get into in the United States. High school students typically need over a 4.0 and SAT scores over 2300. Even if one was to argue that Duke is admitting basketball players with GPAs and SATs "just below" the school's normal standards, clearly these "one and done" 5-star athletes would still need major academic resumes, which many of them likely do not have. It is what it is, but Duke clearly has a corrupt admission standard for its basketball program.

[YoDeFoe]

If Bagley has a 1.5 GPA and got into Duke, that's pretty ridiculous. But chances are, his GPA was adequate, just beneath the level of the average student admitted to Duke.

I'd bet a month's mortgage Bagley isn't close to the >1500 SAT (out of 1600), >4.0 weighted GPA that the average Duke admit posts. They have an 11% acceptance rate for a reason: it's insanely competitive.

Wendell Carter could probably get into Duke without the extra basketball pull (just the normal "you're an exceptional athlete and you'll play for us" pull, e.g. a tennis player). He had a 3.8 GPA at a highly competitive Atlanta private school. The rest of the 5* players are getting in for basketball alone.

I don't really give a hoot - it is what it is - but yeah, no chance Bagely is just beneath the Duke average.

Has anyone seen a public explanation of why these athletes get an dramatically lower bar?

[Spaceman Spiff]

If Bagley has a 1.5 GPA and got into Duke, that's pretty ridiculous. But chances are, his GPA was adequate, just beneath the level of the average student admitted to Duke.

I'd bet a month's mortgage Bagley isn't close to the >1500 SAT (out of 1600), >4.0 weighted GPA that the average Duke admit posts. They have an 11% acceptance rate for a reason: it's insanely competitive.

Wendell Carter could probably get into Duke without the extra basketball pull (just the normal "you're an exceptional athlete and you'll play for us" pull, e.g. a tennis player). He had a 3.8 GPA at a highly competitive Atlanta private school. The rest of the 5* players are getting in for basketball alone.

I don't really give a hoot - it is what it is - but yeah, no chance Bagely is just beneath the Duke average.

Has anyone seen a public explanation of why these athletes get an dramatically lower bar?

Strong extracurricular activity work.

[midnightx]

If Bagley has a 1.5 GPA and got into Duke, that's pretty ridiculous. But chances are, his GPA was adequate, just beneath the level of the average student admitted to Duke.

I'd bet a month's mortgage Bagley isn't close to the >1500 SAT (out of 1600), >4.0 weighted GPA that the average Duke admit posts. They have an 11% acceptance rate for a reason: it's insanely competitive.

Wendell Carter could probably get into Duke without the extra basketball pull (just the normal "you're an exceptional athlete and you'll play for us" pull, e.g. a tennis player). He had a 3.8 GPA at a highly competitive Atlanta private school. The rest of the 5* players are getting in for basketball alone.

I don't really give a hoot - it is what it is - but yeah, no chance Bagely is just beneath the Duke average.

Has anyone seen a public explanation of why these athletes get an dramatically lower bar?

No, because no one in the sports media ever brings it up. Everyone just looks the other way as they celebrate and fawn over Coach K. Is Jay Bilas or Vitale going to talk about how athletes who can barely qualify for a state university are waltzing into Duke just to play Basketball?

[YoDeFoe]

Strong extracurricular activity work.

I'll take that as tongue-in-cheek, Spiff.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Strong extracurricular activity work.

I'll take that as tongue-in-cheek, Spiff.

Hey, playing a sport is an extracurricular activity.

Will anyone ever just straight up admit that the school takes people it otherwise never would because of that? No. That's all it is, though. The way different people dress it up for public consumption varies.

It goes both ways, though. I'm psyched that De'Andre Ayton is in Tucson, and it isn't because of his chosen major. I don't think Lauri Markannen was a traditional exchange student, and I'm ok with that.

[ChooChooCat]

I know it just broke recently, but Bagley was actually cleared before even Ayton was. Just some FYI there for ya guys.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I know it just broke recently, but Bagley was actually cleared before even Ayton was. Just some FYI there for ya guys.

I assume he cleared when he committed to Duke.

[ChooChooCat]

I know it just broke recently, but Bagley was actually cleared before even Ayton was. Just some FYI there for ya guys.

I assume he cleared when he committed to Duke.

Yeah he was cleared weeks prior to the public announcement.

The entire process for him being cleared lasted roughly 2 weeks, while Ayton's lasted 4-5 months. For all the talk of Trevon Duval going overseas due to academic issues his process lasted an entire day.