Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[Scummy Dick Douglas]

You motherfuckers are right on schedule. Of the five stages of grief, you currently find yourself at stage one: Denial.

Now please don't post anything else for another couple of minutes. I need to refill my popcorn.

[CatFanOneMil]

A couple of things,

1: The NCAA as much as I disagree with them is still a representative body governed by persons from the universities...in 2014 they made almost a billion dollars and 90% was from the mens BB tourney...they are not going to kill the cash cow...there are always buggy individuals waiting in the shadows to misdirect young talent to $ and stuff, but I still find it hard to believe that this "pay for talent" scheme is SOP for all colleges and the NCAA not knowing it, if it IS this way, they are in on it and we don't have a lot to worry about since they have Rick Pitinos tit in a wringer.

2. IF this corruption is as real as everyone supposes how come NOT.ONE.NBA.PLAYER.HAS.COME.FORWARD???? surely if this has been going on since Wooden there would be more proof than some old guys with mafia connections who were not that smart to begin with...hell look at the NBA these guys are not rocket scientists, a lot of them think they are bullet proof...I think if this is as widespread as suggested we'd have some guys singing

What possible incentive would an NBA player have to come forward?

Ego...the number #1 commodity in pro sports...besides are you suggesting that this would mean nothing to them now? I can assure you if some of them went in the draft at #37 instead of #14 they'd be singing now, if you think this is as widespread as everyone is suggesting I am saying it cannot possibly be as hidden as everyone is saying...no freaking way.

I still don't see any incentive there. It wouldn't change anything about their current career or pay or anything. I don't see it.

But you DO see all this hidden corruption? I don't.

I am assuming you agree that there is rampant corruption involving head coaches at all the top Div1 schools regarding the recruiting process....lets bear in mind that the NCAA is NOT some nebulous community out in space, a LOT of its members actually work at the universities we are talking about...I am suggesting that this is a conspiracy theory that requires waaay to many cover-ups and way to much looking the other way...I simply do not believe it is a head coach issue...there may be one, maybe two who know about it and glance the other way, but I still believe the MAJORITY of top Div.1 schools are honest...even Duke, UCLA, etc...I even think Oregon is basically honest...if there was ever a school that should have the top 5 recruiting class in the world forever it would be the ducks to hear some people tell it...Nike being the big elephant of corruption in the room.

There is no hard evidence yet for me to think this is anything more than Book being stupid and a few other rogue people exploiting a system they could hide in...if it is something else I will be shocked.

[NYCat]

So who's the next schools? The dream would be UK, KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA

But it'll probably something like 4-7 of the following LSU, bama, FSU, nc st, Mizzou, Mississippi State, Cincy, unlv, Oregon, WKU, TAMU

[scumdevils86]

You motherfuckers are right on schedule. Of the five stages of grief, you currently find yourself at stage one: Denial.

Now please don't post anything else for another couple of minutes. I need to refill my popcorn.

Must suck to root for a school that has to pay for such crappy players

[Olsondogg]

Because it’s coming...

[rgdeuce]

A couple of things,

1: The NCAA as much as I disagree with them is still a representative body governed by persons from the universities...in 2014 they made almost a billion dollars and 90% was from the mens BB tourney...they are not going to kill the cash cow...there are always buggy individuals waiting in the shadows to misdirect young talent to $ and stuff, but I still find it hard to believe that this "pay for talent" scheme is SOP for all colleges and the NCAA not knowing it, if it IS this way, they are in on it and we don't have a lot to worry about since they have Rick Pitinos tit in a wringer.

2. IF this corruption is as real as everyone supposes how come NOT.ONE.NBA.PLAYER.HAS.COME.FORWARD???? surely if this has been going on since Wooden there would be more proof than some old guys with mafia connections who were not that smart to begin with...hell look at the NBA these guys are not rocket scientists, a lot of them think they are bullet proof...I think if this is as widespread as suggested we'd have some guys singing

Ill take a stab at 2: because these NBA players are friends with/care about/were taken care of the people who make a living doing this kind of stuff? Also, why would u want to ruin it for the future generations? Not much in this world that gives (largely) African Americans upwards of $150k, houses, cars, the hook up on a kush job, etc. Ignoring the negatives, not many kids are getting boatloads of free gear and $250 Air Jordans that they will only wear a few games a season and some practices. If you are a sneaker addict like myself, you cream over what Zo wears on his feet on gameday, and he rarely wears the same pair twice. I mean, you are talking about $5,000 plus in shoes that he is wearing in a given season, and thats just what he is wearing on the court, not to class and around town. I'm assuming our players get several pair from Nike because we are a bike school, but he wears a lot of exclusive/rare shoes that no one else wears.

[Olsondogg]

So who's the next schools? The dream would be UK, KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA

But it'll probably something like 4-7 of the following LSU, bama, FSU, nc st, Mizzou, Mississippi State, Cincy, unlv, Oregon, WKU

Hearing that there will be blood

[catgrad97]

You motherfuckers are right on schedule. Of the five stages of grief, you currently find yourself at stage one: Denial.

Now please don't post anything else for another couple of minutes. I need to refill my popcorn.

Your wet dream would be for ASU to even be in this conversation. This thread is more about Grand Canyon than it is your petty little school.

[CalStateTempe]

So who's the next schools? The dream would be UK, KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA

But it'll probably something like 4-7 of the following LSU, bama, FSU, nc st, Mizzou, Mississippi State, Cincy, unlv, Oregon, WKU

When this is all said and done and a school is crowned "Bribery for Recruits National Champion", I sure as hell want to see an epic One Shining Moment.

Does uofa count as a first round loss?

And WKU is totally on the take, they always punch above their weight.

[Salty]

This must have been what it was like to have premium on GoAz........

[scumdevils86]

So who's the next schools? The dream would be UK, KU, Duke, UNC, UCLA

But it'll probably something like 4-7 of the following LSU, bama, FSU, nc st, Mizzou, Mississippi State, Cincy, unlv, Oregon, WKU

Which this is all said and done and a school is crowned "Bribery for Recruits National Champion", insure as he'll want to see an epic One Shining Moment.

Does uofa count as a first round loss?

And WKU is totally on the take, they always punch above their weight.

Lol. Its been a long day. Stress at work and this shit. Thanks

[scumdevils86]

Oh lord. Now a salty sighting.

[CalStateTempe]

I know this is great! Like old times!

[catgrad97]

A couple of things,

1: The NCAA as much as I disagree with them is still a representative body governed by persons from the universities...in 2014 they made almost a billion dollars and 90% was from the mens BB tourney...they are not going to kill the cash cow...there are always buggy individuals waiting in the shadows to misdirect young talent to $ and stuff, but I still find it hard to believe that this "pay for talent" scheme is SOP for all colleges and the NCAA not knowing it, if it IS this way, they are in on it and we don't have a lot to worry about since they have Rick Pitinos tit in a wringer.

2. IF this corruption is as real as everyone supposes how come NOT.ONE.NBA.PLAYER.HAS.COME.FORWARD???? surely if this has been going on since Wooden there would be more proof than some old guys with mafia connections who were not that smart to begin with...hell look at the NBA these guys are not rocket scientists, a lot of them think they are bullet proof...I think if this is as widespread as suggested we'd have some guys singing

Ill take a stab at 2: because these NBA players are friends with/care about/were taken care of the people who make a living doing this kind of stuff? Also, why would u want to ruin it for the future generations? Not much in this world that gives (largely) African Americans upwards of $150k, houses, cars, the hook up on a kush job, etc. Ignoring the negatives, not many kids are getting boatloads of free gear and $250 Air Jordans that they will only wear a few games a season and some practices. If you are a sneaker addict like myself, you cream over what Zo wears on his feet on gameday, and he rarely wears the same pair twice. I mean, you are talking about $5,000 plus in shoes that he is wearing in a given season, and thats just what he is wearing on the court, not to class and around town. I'm assuming our players get several pair from Nike because we are a bike school, but he wears a lot of exclusive/rare shoes that no one else wears.

Exactly. These guys have been taken care of. What's the incentive for them to stick their necks out? They have a better job waiting for them with the feds?

This thread is half 97cats bringing it more bigly than in any other thread in history.

The other half seems to be our hand-wringing about his info. This was ever thus. We can't handle that?

My only curiosity is if the FBI will intervene so that the NCAA doesn't hit our program too hard afterwards. Otherwise, I have total faith in Sean Miller as one of the smartest, most professional basketball coaches in the game.

[BibbysTowelDude]

If you happen by Bloomington, and smell the overpowering stench of turd... That's poor Archie and his tightey whiteys.

[Salty]

I have one question Jon... Greg Byrne. What was his involvement in all this

[CatFanOneMil]

A couple of things,

1: The NCAA as much as I disagree with them is still a representative body governed by persons from the universities...in 2014 they made almost a billion dollars and 90% was from the mens BB tourney...they are not going to kill the cash cow...there are always buggy individuals waiting in the shadows to misdirect young talent to $ and stuff, but I still find it hard to believe that this "pay for talent" scheme is SOP for all colleges and the NCAA not knowing it, if it IS this way, they are in on it and we don't have a lot to worry about since they have Rick Pitinos tit in a wringer.

2. IF this corruption is as real as everyone supposes how come NOT.ONE.NBA.PLAYER.HAS.COME.FORWARD???? surely if this has been going on since Wooden there would be more proof than some old guys with mafia connections who were not that smart to begin with...hell look at the NBA these guys are not rocket scientists, a lot of them think they are bullet proof...I think if this is as widespread as suggested we'd have some guys singing

Ill take a stab at 2: because these NBA players are friends with/care about/were taken care of the people who make a living doing this kind of stuff? Also, why would u want to ruin it for the future generations? Not much in this world that gives (largely) African Americans upwards of $150k, houses, cars, the hook up on a kush job, etc. Ignoring the negatives, not many kids are getting boatloads of free gear and $250 Air Jordans that they will only wear a few games a season and some practices. If you are a sneaker addict like myself, you cream over what Zo wears on his feet on gameday, and he rarely wears the same pair twice. I mean, you are talking about $5,000 plus in shoes that he is wearing in a given season, and thats just what he is wearing on the court, not to class and around town. I'm assuming our players get several pair from Nike because we are a bike school, but he wears a lot of exclusive/rare shoes that no one else wears.

But again if this is as rampant as some seem to suggest (look at all the schools that are being labelled "next") there is no way to keep a conspiracy of this magnitude hidden, no freaking way...there are very bitter "NBA use-to-be's" that would simply sell the story to get money again because they blew their earnings on hookers and cocaine...

I can think of at least 5 players who have hit the skids that would turn on former agents to sell a book deal...and we have NOT.ONE.FUCKING.BOOK. (except the guy out on bail)

$$$

There's your reason.

[scumdevils86]

All you old school fckers need to pull up a chair here and go down with the ship. Party like it's 2004 at goazcats all over again.

[UofAlum05]

All you old school fckers need to pull up a chair here and go down with the ship. Party like it's 2004 at goazcats all over again.

I'm waiting for UDUG to join the party to toss this in all of our faces.

[CatFanOneMil]

Some are suggesting this has been going on since the days of Wooden...I'm saying there is no way, not on the level people are suggesting...there is no evidence for that...someone give me proof of college players being paid to play for the last 20 years...if its as rampant as is being sold there would proof...

I get that there are always a few bad eggs exploiting young dumb players and poverty stricken families, but that has been going on since Rome built the colosseum...its one thing to suggest this happens because of human nature in a few, its another to say it is systemic.

[scumdevils86]

I don't understand how anyone could not think this was systemic

[Chicat]

You motherfuckers are right on schedule. Of the five stages of grief, you currently find yourself at stage one: Denial.

Now please don't post anything else for another couple of minutes. I need to refill my popcorn.

Which kind of denial is worse? The type you claim to see here or denying you're a Sun Gerbil fan and then getting caught in that lie?

[CalStateTempe]

If you happen by Bloomington, and smell the overpowering stench of turd... That's poor Archie and his tightey whiteys.

He's got a hot wife.

[Main Event]

All you old school fckers need to pull up a chair here and go down with the ship. Party like it's 2004 at goazcats all over again.

I'm waiting for UDUG to join the party to toss this in all of our faces.

Pretty sure he's the mastermind behind all of this so i'd like for him to finally show his face

[YoDeFoe]

Exactly. These guys have been taken care of. What's the incentive for them to stick their necks out? They have a better job waiting for them with the feds?

This thread is half 97cats bringing it more bigly than in any other thread in history.

The other half seems to be our hand-wringing about his info. This was ever thus. We can't handle that?

My only curiosity is if the FBI will intervene so that the NCAA doesn't hit our program too hard afterwards. Otherwise, I have total faith in Sean Miller as one of the smartest, most professional basketball coaches in the game.

Thoroughly agree with additional emphasis.

[catgrad97]

Some are suggesting this has been going on since the days of Wooden...I'm saying there is no way, not on the level people are suggesting...there is no evidence for that...someone give me proof of college players being paid to play for the last 20 years...if its as rampant as is being sold there would proof...

I get that there are always a few bad eggs exploiting young dumb players and poverty stricken families, but that has been going on since Rome built the colosseum...its one thing to suggest this happens because of human nature in a few, its another to say it is systemic.

If Lute Olson was asking Sonny Vaccaro for a shoe contract 35 years ago, it's systemic.

It's called incentivizing. For both coaches and players. If that was removed entirely, not even Vegas would run a line on the games anymore.

[YoDeFoe]

Some are suggesting this has been going on since the days of Wooden...I'm saying there is no way, not on the level people are suggesting...there is no evidence for that...someone give me proof of college players being paid to play for the last 20 years...if its as rampant as is being sold there would proof...

I get that there are always a few bad eggs exploiting young dumb players and poverty stricken families, but that has been going on since Rome built the colosseum...its one thing to suggest this happens because of human nature in a few, its another to say it is systemic.

If Lute Olson was asking Sonny Vaccaro for a shoe contract 35 years ago, it's systemic.

It's called incentivizing. For both coaches and players. If that was removed entirely, not even Vegas would run a line on the games anymore.

OneMil... google "Sam Gilbert."

The paper quoted Brent Clark, an NCAA field investigator who said that, in 1977, he was told to drop his case in Westwood. "If I had spent a month in Los Angeles, I could have put them on indefinite suspension," he said of UCLA. An NCAA spokesman disputed this claim, saying that Clark was living a "fantasy world."

[CatFanOneMil]

I don't understand how anyone could not think this was systemic

Because systemic abuse of the rules requires a conspiracy of legions...people are not that loyal, not to the rules of breaking the rules according to rules...

Corruption ALWAYS manifest...at some point...hell the shoe companies had no way to influence culture in Woodens day like they do today, heck in 1980's when I went to college Nike was barely getting off the ground as far as market placement...to suggest that Div.1 schools have been buying recruits for almost 40 years would leave a pile of bones that could block out the sun...and there is no shadow that big, just this current shadow of a handful of bad folks getting caught.

I stand by my position that its a few bad eggs in the scope of nearly 300 schools...a very few.

[Jwsisliving]

Too Soon Take:

Feel really bad for Book. He make a mistake, yes, broke some laws, but the consequences will be far more dire then the action. Not like he got someone hurt, or he was even malicious against a person. Thought he'd make a quick buck in a return favor, but that the kid would probably be in fine shape steering to that individual. Just lack of judgment. However, he has burned the bridge of his best friend and mentor Miller, probably won't coach for a long time, face jail and/or fines, huge lawyer fees, reputation hits, etc., all for the quick buck. Pray for Book.

Boy, first you say this is "all a 'dog & pony show' for the DOJ," then you say you wish Byrne were here to "navigate this" and now the above.

I feel bad for all of us........not so much for Book. Book might has well been firing a machine gun near Old Main.

And for the record, there is nothing to "navigate."

This matter will be handled ruthlessly--first by the FBI and then by the NCAA, and then by Larry Scott.

It's soon to be completely out of Arizona's hands.

The season effectively ended today.

BTW, Miller never got his FF.

Go away.

[YoDeFoe]

I don't understand how anyone could not think this was systemic

Because systemic abuse of the rules requires a conspiracy of legions...people are not that loyal, not to the rules of breaking the rules according to rules...

Corruption ALWAYS manifest...at some point...hell the shoe companies had no way to influence culture in Woodens day like they do today, heck in 1980's when I went to college Nike was barely getting off the ground as far as market placement...to suggest that Div.1 schools have been buying recruits for almost 40 years would leave a pile of bones that could block out the sun...and there is no shadow that big, just this current shadow of a handful of bad folks getting caught.

I stand by my position that its a few bad eggs in the scope of nearly 300 schools...a very few.

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

[Jwsisliving]

I just can't understand the optimism here.

Miller had an assistant caught on an FBI wiretap funneling multiple players to agents and discussing cash payments for commitments. That's textbook NCAA show cause stuff - in the past, a lot of schools can get "caught" and get off lightly because the NCAA has no recourse to coerce witnesses and there is very rarely a traceable paper trail.

He's done - it may not be this year, but it's just a matter of time.

Our only real hope is the net is cast wide enough to include the 25 or so schools recruiting at the top level.

How soon until you stop posting?

[Jwsisliving]

This is not just the NCAA knocking on our door. This is a basketball staff member and assistant coach arrested in a federal bribery and corruption probe accused of recruiting players by paying them. And any assertion that Miller didn't know certainly doesn't come close to fitting the straight face test.

I'm amazed at the talk of "well we might lose this recruit or that recruit". Our season, and probably several seasons, and possibly our program are done.

I know we had a good run with Miller, but this is nothing but dishonor and embarrassment for our university. Just Utterly Shameful.

You've repeated yourself multiple times. Nobody wants to hear it again.

[NYCat]

I don't understand how anyone could not think this was systemic

Because systemic abuse of the rules requires a conspiracy of legions...people are not that loyal, not to the rules of breaking the rules according to rules...

Corruption ALWAYS manifest...at some point...hell the shoe companies had no way to influence culture in Woodens day like they do today, heck in 1980's when I went to college Nike was barely getting off the ground as far as market placement...to suggest that Div.1 schools have been buying recruits for almost 40 years would leave a pile of bones that could block out the sun...and there is no shadow that big, just this current shadow of a handful of bad folks getting caught.

I stand by my position that its a few bad eggs in the scope of nearly 300 schools...a very few.

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I envy his innocence

You could've made the same argument for steroids in baseball before all hell broke loose. Or college football, if it ever comes out

[MrBug708]

On a semi-serious note, the NCAA has to suspend the fall signing period, right?

[CatFanOneMil]

Some are suggesting this has been going on since the days of Wooden...I'm saying there is no way, not on the level people are suggesting...there is no evidence for that...someone give me proof of college players being paid to play for the last 20 years...if its as rampant as is being sold there would proof...

I get that there are always a few bad eggs exploiting young dumb players and poverty stricken families, but that has been going on since Rome built the colosseum...its one thing to suggest this happens because of human nature in a few, its another to say it is systemic.

If Lute Olson was asking Sonny Vaccaro for a shoe contract 35 years ago, it's systemic.

It's called incentivizing. For both coaches and players. If that was removed entirely, not even Vegas would run a line on the games anymore.

OneMil... google "Sam Gilbert."

The paper quoted Brent Clark, an NCAA field investigator who said that, in 1977, he was told to drop his case in Westwood. "If I had spent a month in Los Angeles, I could have put them on indefinite suspension," he said of UCLA. An NCAA spokesman disputed this claim, saying that Clark was living a "fantasy world."

Again it is a handful of incidents in one school out of nearly 40 years of 300 schools do the math...

40 years times 300 schools thats 12,000 opportunities for SYSTEMIC corruption...and thats just general math...and this guy got caught...to suggest that out of nearly 12,000 opportunities for recruitment violations we have one a year is like...40...but 1 in 300 every year is NOT systemic...not even close...and do we even have 40 instances of NCAA violations on recruits?

I dunno...but I doubt it.

[YoDeFoe]

"Weatherman says it's gonna be windy but how can he know?? He can't SEE the wind now can he?"

[CatFanOneMil]

I don't understand how anyone could not think this was systemic

Because systemic abuse of the rules requires a conspiracy of legions...people are not that loyal, not to the rules of breaking the rules according to rules...

Corruption ALWAYS manifest...at some point...hell the shoe companies had no way to influence culture in Woodens day like they do today, heck in 1980's when I went to college Nike was barely getting off the ground as far as market placement...to suggest that Div.1 schools have been buying recruits for almost 40 years would leave a pile of bones that could block out the sun...and there is no shadow that big, just this current shadow of a handful of bad folks getting caught.

I stand by my position that its a few bad eggs in the scope of nearly 300 schools...a very few.

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

[Harvey Specter]

Is the FBI giving Sean and Arizona a note to give to the NCAA? The idea that Sean would let knowingly let Book commit NCAA infractions which would tarnish Lute's program is curious to me. FBI or not.

Because now, there is no doubt, Book will flip and he has been with Sean a very, very long time. I always thought he wasn't previously fired after the suspension because he knew too much.I didn't think Book would say a word before I read 97's thoughts on the matter.

And if Sean did let the FBI do their thing, without impingement, why hasn't the University forcefully come out and said as much. Our brand and Miller's reputation is getting destroyed in the meantime. When is the reveal? Because residual damage is occurring here.

Finally, I don't think Book is going down for this in court, this is not an airtight case, a lot of bright legal minds don't think any federal laws were actually broken. Immoral and NCAA amateurism? Sure.

I get the sense that it is not tarnishing Lute's program as much as it is shining a light on Lute's tarnished program.

Lute went out of his way to remind us how he never used profanity. Golly gee, that's terrific.

Fucked. Up. Priorities.

I'll always appreciate what he did for our program... but comments re: timing suggests he was at the forefront of a lot of this shit. It would not be the only scenario where the rhetoric of his reputation did not match reality.

[YoDeFoe]

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

Scouts are saying they knew about this. Pundits are saying they'd always heard this was happening. Coaches are on TV saying 100 programs have a guy like Book. And yes, people on anonymous message boards are saying it too.

The structure and the size have changed many times over the years, I'm sure. But the "we'll take care of you" part of recruiting big recruits seems painfully obvious now that the veil has been so publicly pierced and the "in-the-knows" have sighed instead of screamed.

[CatFanOneMil]

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

Scouts are saying they knew about this. Pundits are saying they'd always heard this was happening. Coaches are on TV saying 100 programs have a guy like Book. And yes, people on anonymous message boards are saying it too.

The structure and the size have changed many times over the years, I'm sure. But the "we'll take care of you" part of recruiting big recruits seems painfully obvious now that the veil has been so publicly pierced and the "in-the-knows" have sighed instead of screamed.

Scouts are PAID to look like they know stuff they can only guess...their jobs depend on this illusion...
Pundits ALWAYS say they knew, their job is spin...and spin is a product.
One coach said this not "coaches" plural...there are at least 300 coaches...one does not make a major voice...
Anonymous people say ALL KINDS of things on online forums...

Data...please.

Cold hard data.

I am a computer programer, I deal in logic and there is no room for innuendo...its not hard.

Make factual statements with proof...all any of us have so far is an FBI investigation and a bunch of hand wringing...even the FBI stuff is not actually "facts" yet, it is people on tapes SAYING things, that could or could not be true...true false statements have no room for play in my world a fact is either true or it is not a fact yet.

I am not saying this is not possible, anything is possible, but so far everything is inflated and conflated to be things other than facts.

The facts do not support it being systemic , YET.

[Jwsisliving]

Thanks 'rado fan.

No kidding. We haven't seen them show their faces around here in quite some time.

Serious weak sauce, as if this fan base needs the "help" with information. We're fucking 3hrs ahead of dado fan but he's all " guys I heard hc have to take the fall for assistants" and provides a "helpful link"

It's gonna be funny when the dust settles from all this an tad boyle looking up from the bottom of the mountains division.

I get that you're frustrated with your situation, but you can do better than that. Though, at least you made me chuckle. Enjoy the process, I know I will.

If you've come here just to talk shit you'll be shown the door real quick.

We should show carcassdragger the door too imo.

[catgrad97]

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

Scouts are saying they knew about this. Pundits are saying they'd always heard this was happening. Coaches are on TV saying 100 programs have a guy like Book. And yes, people on anonymous message boards are saying it too.

The structure and the size have changed many times over the years, I'm sure. But the "we'll take care of you" part of recruiting big recruits seems painfully obvious now that the veil has been so publicly pierced and the "in-the-knows" have sighed instead of screamed.

The desire to want Arizona to somehow be innocent of the reality every other college basketball program competes in truly puzzles me.

Good God, where in the hell do people think Lute got his new cars he parked at McKale? How in the world did Sean Elliott and Chris Mills afford their cars to drive around Tucson in?

Oh, their parents just took out a loan? Give me a Nell Carter-sized break.

[scumdevils86]

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

Scouts are saying they knew about this. Pundits are saying they'd always heard this was happening. Coaches are on TV saying 100 programs have a guy like Book. And yes, people on anonymous message boards are saying it too.

The structure and the size have changed many times over the years, I'm sure. But the "we'll take care of you" part of recruiting big recruits seems painfully obvious now that the veil has been so publicly pierced and the "in-the-knows" have sighed instead of screamed.

Scouts are PAID to look like they know stuff they can only guess...their jobs depend on this illusion...
Pundits ALWAYS say they knew, their job is spin...and spin is a product.
One coach said this not "coaches" plural...there are at least 300 coaches...one does not make a major voice...
Anonymous people say ALL KINDS of things on online forums...

Data...please.

Cold hard data.

I am a computer programer, I deal in logic and there is no room for innuendo...its not hard.

Make factual statements with proof...all any of us have so far is an FBI investigation and a bunch of hand wringing...even the FBI stuff is not actually "facts" yet, it is people on tapes SAYING things, that could or could not be true...true false statements have no room for play in my world a fact is either true or it is not a fact yet.

I am not saying this is not possible, anything is possible, but so far everything is inflated and conflated to be things other than facts.

Ah. You're one of them.

[520in480]

I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.

I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.

July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas

May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."

April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."

June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.

July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision

Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas

Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.

[CatFanOneMil]

You're trying to reason your way into that position while the people who know are telling you otherwise.

I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.

Scouts are saying they knew about this. Pundits are saying they'd always heard this was happening. Coaches are on TV saying 100 programs have a guy like Book. And yes, people on anonymous message boards are saying it too.

The structure and the size have changed many times over the years, I'm sure. But the "we'll take care of you" part of recruiting big recruits seems painfully obvious now that the veil has been so publicly pierced and the "in-the-knows" have sighed instead of screamed.

The desire to want Arizona to somehow be innocent of the reality every other college basketball program competes in truly puzzles me.

Good God, where in the hell do people think Lute got his new cars he parked at McKale? How in the world did Sean Elliott and Chris Mills afford their cars to drive around Tucson in?

Oh, their parents just took out a loan? Give me a Nell Carter-sized break.

Why does an employee of the state have to be part of systemic corruption to drive a new car?

My daughter LEASES a new Mercedes and she's a district Attorney in Cali, should we assume she's on the take to the mob? What kind of inflated nonsense is that?

I have no idea how any players afford anything but I don't just jump to the conclusion that they got what they have by illegal activity, thats just cynicism on PED's..

I drove a new car when I went to college because I was a given a student loan and had good credit, I had no special ability OR illegal opportunity to drive one...

These arguments are nonsense.

[CalStateTempe]

Just read on Reddit that the initial financal advisor that got this whole thing set off was nabbed as he was connected to UNC football players, during the UNC academic scandal investigation.

Fuck UNC. The Carolina way.

[SCCats]

Scouts are PAID to look like they know stuff they can only guess...their jobs depend on this illusion...
Pundits ALWAYS say they knew, their job is spin...and spin is a product.
One coach said this not "coaches" plural...there are at least 300 coaches...one does not make a major voice...
Anonymous people say ALL KINDS of things on online forums...

Data...please.

Cold hard data.

I am a computer programer, I deal in logic and there is no room for innuendo...its not hard.

What do you do when you look up at the sun?

And you see the sun. And you feel it's warmth on your face.

And you ask the sun for data.

[scumdevils86]

I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.

I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.

July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas

May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."

April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."

June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.

July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision

Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas

Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.

Thanks and welcome

[YoDeFoe]

I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.

I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.

July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas

May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."

April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."

June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.

July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision

Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas

Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.

Way to make an entrance!

[Jwsisliving]

and then, at the end of all of this...

I am supposed to care if players got...money...for their skills.

That's the real issue here. I mean, Book is committing a crime for getting kickbacks in a state position, but if he was just paid as an employee handling camps and the like, it would be fine. Book done screwed himself over chump change in his pocket.

But, taking Book out of it for a second...the horrible, terrible thing we are alleged to have done was pay a couple of players. I get it...there are rules. There is no excuse for not following rules. If they are there and you don't follow them, you have to take a punishment.

But people are getting up in arms and losing their mind over...a company with a vault of money sprinkling some on the seeds of their future ad campaigns, seeing what would grow.

The whole system is corrupt. The shoe companies own this entire process from cradle to draft. The camps, the advertising, the elite AAU tournaments, the teams in those AAU tournaments having to show loyalty to remain sponsored, the coaches of those AAU teams getting paid to "coach" their players (and give them badass socks and other gear), the schools buzzing off of shoe money, the best high schools playing national TV showcases covered in sponsor gear....

And now I am supposed to feel great shame because a couple of kids got paid by an assistant coach with money from the same shoe companies? Now it is cash instead of boxes of shoes to sell...umm, wear.

Again...it is not important here because...well, rules is rules. But damn.....

Or if you were like a few of the idiots in this thread you'd stop being a fan of Arizona and demand Miller be fired right away.