Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[rgdeuce]

I am curious if FBI is also interested in nailing the NCAA. At this point, the NCAA has to be just as shocked as Pitino.

"nailing the NCAA" for what? What Federal crime might the NCAA have committed?

I believe the NCAA is at risk because amateur basketball is at risk.

As long as the one-and-done exists, Shoe Companies will be looking for early access to the next possible pro superstar to be on their team - the money involved per true blue-chip athlete is a small investment that could reap huge future rewards....

If it comes to making this level of the sport just another level of professional sports, then there is honestly no place for universities, especially state-run universities, being in the "business" - then the NCAA is "nailed", because it is obsolete....

What federal crime did baseball commit when Congress hauled all their asses in to answer questions? They got their shit together real quick once someone else was looking at them, rather than the other way around. Baseball thereafter at least put forth their "we are trying" efforts, and while the game is still not PED, at least it wasn't rampant or blatantly obvious as it once was.

[Olsondogg]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

[YoDeFoe]

I'm just pissed that our tournament teams lost to a bunch of amateurs.

[scumdevils86]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

word

[rgdeuce]

Perhaps it would help (I doubt it most people have already sentenced the guilty) if I clarified my perspective a bit:


6. Just because someone said in a taped conversation that University 4 was offering 150k does not make that true...the tape is true, the conversation happened, no doubt, but the CONTENT of the conversation is subject to laws of evidence, evidence that NO ONE but the FBI currently has...this nuance also applies to Rick Pitino, unless there is evidence that Rick Pitino's voice has been recorded and is on tape saying "We bought that kid for X amount of money" then all any of us have is the report of a source that may or may not be telling the truth...I kind of keep in mind that these are bidding wars between money hungry rogue people and as far as the FBI is concerned the only thing illegal here would be if this money can be traced to federal funds/scholarship displacement/Pell grants/etc. the FBI is not even slightly interested in enforcing NCAA rules, in fact they are incapable of doing that.

I think this is not wholly accurate. Even if he didn't commit to paying, there is still "conspiracy to commit".

Good job Enfuego. An agreement between two or more parties to commit an illegal act, and generally, one of the parties taking a substantial step toward committing that offense. So, agreeing with the codefendants to push Player A to their agency, then the conversation with Player's A handler (substantial step). Boom.... Agreeing to pay Player B $15k, then taking the substantial step of asking for 3 months salary ($15k) up front. Boom.

[gumby]

To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.

1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.

More details, please. Are they employees of the college or the outside forces?

How does mixing nonprofit and for-profit ventures navigate labor and tax laws? What if schools DO compensate beyond current scholarships, as they do now, to gain an advantage? NCAA still there to enforce? (Doing such a great job now).

Seems the market would dictate to colleges: cut your non-rev sports to free up money for the bidding or say hello to the bottom of the standings.

Would the charade of attending classes (for many) continue? Or is that veneer needed to keep these events on campuses (rather than club sports)?

The school's relationship with the player is identical. Zero money is going college to player.

Outside sources are paying the player. The comparison is a normal student who gets a job at a pizza place. That does not impact the student's scholarship money or legit $.

The player is related to the school in the same way as now. Right now there is an artificial prohibition on players making money from their status outside that. The only thing my proposal does is eliminate that prohibition. The institution/player relationship unchanged.

OK. So not an employee. Not an amateur. A student. Money doesn't come from TV contracts, because that money goes to schools.

Outside sources no longer affiliated with particular schools? Just go right to the kid. No reason to sweat which school the kid chooses. Coaches don't need to sweat where the $150k comes from.

No Nike Schools, etc. I'd like that.

I don't see any need to uncouple Nike/Adidas, etc. from outfitting schools. If Adidas thinks De'Andre Ayton would be better at Kansas, they can offer him double what Nike does and he can take it or not.

The reality is that a shoe company is going to use $ to steer a player towards a program that will return the player to the shoe company when they go pro.

The shoe companies are not part of the school just due to the contract with the school. They can maintain those contracts or not, but if they choose to individually sponsor players beyond that, I see no reason that it has to influence anything.

The student equivalent: Company X donates a ton of money to Neurological Research at Arizona, including equipment. Company X sees talented High School Student Y, who looks like a budding superstar in Neurological Research. Company X tells Student Y that they will pay full room, board and incidentals for Student Y to attend Arizona if she agrees she'll come work for Company X after graduation.

Is that bad? Switch Company X to Nike and Student Y to Jahvon Quinerly. Is it bad now?

"After graduation." Works for me! Demonstrates a connection to college. But, "go there for one year, because the NBA rule ..." loses the connection to education. Would really like to sever the incentive of outside sources steering players. Tends to get corrupt.

[gumby]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

But finding quotes suggests we would take them without knowing the sword is dangling over the neck. Different dynamic when you know.

[Olsondogg]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

But finding quotes suggests we would take them without knowing the sword is dangling over the neck. Different dynamic when you know.

But the same "crime" happening.

Ignorance is bliss.

[gumby]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

But finding quotes suggests we would take them without knowing the sword is dangling over the neck. Different dynamic when you know.

But the same "crime" happening.

Ignorance is bliss.

I don't understand.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Gumby:

I don't think the NCAA can found anything on the one and done bc that's an NBA rule they have no control over. Even with that, it doesn't really offend me. Going back to my analogy:

Say a year into Student Y's time at Arizona, a sweet job with Company X opens. Student Y wants it and Company X wants Student Y badly enough that they don't care if Student Y has completed her degree. Student Y leaves for a million dollar contract to head Company X's research department.

Not offensive to me. The early exit is comparable to someone like Lauri deciding another year won't be necessary.

[gumby]

Might as well embrace it. The program will always be seen as dirty no matter the outcome.

Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?

Source: https://twitter.com/IndyWhiskeyAz" target="_blank

Came from Reddit actually, not that it really matters

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegebasketb ... /72y1mw/_/" target="_blank

Luke Walton would hate this. His number.

[Olsondogg]

I don't understand how the dynamic is different.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

But finding quotes suggests we would take them without knowing the sword is dangling over the neck. Different dynamic when you know.

But the same "crime" happening.

Ignorance is bliss.

I don't understand.

It would be a thrill to win the tourney. Ask USC football fans if they remember the 2004 NC team, even though that team doesn't exist in the record books. I'd take the experience, even knowing it might not last. We can't control that part, so if we have something vacated, it might as well be something awesome.

It changes if we know ahead of time that one player is ineligible and can guarantee the season holds. Given the state of things right now, I do not think that is possible.

[Olsondogg]

People like to eat hot dogs, just don't want to see them made.

[CalStateTempe]

Knowing all top 50 teams have their hand in the pot; one the spectrum from clean (furd, whisky, mich) to dirty (lville), where is Arizona?

[gumby]

Gumby:

I don't think the NCAA can found anything on the one and done bc that's an NBA rule they have no control over. Even with that, it doesn't really offend me. Going back to my analogy:

Say a year into Student Y's time at Arizona, a sweet job with Company X opens. Student Y wants it and Company X wants Student Y badly enough that they don't care if Student Y has completed her degree. Student Y leaves for a million dollar contract to head Company X's research department.

Not offensive to me. The early exit is comparable to someone like Lauri deciding another year won't be necessary.

Right, but Student Y doesn't have any fans that scream and cheer every time he handles a beaker. Department heads don't have to worry about landing the next Student Y to soothe fans and keep job. No TV contract money pouring into the university because of interest in those studies.

Different dynamic. The pressures on schools with athletes is very intense. Not so with science students.

[Olsondogg]

Knowing all top 50 teams have their hand in the pot; one the spectrum from clean (furd, whisky, mich) to dirty (lville), where is Arizona?

We are named in the biggest issue to hit CBB in forever. The fbi is involved. Rank it wherever you want but it ain’t good.

[threenumberones]

Might as well embrace it. The program will always be seen as dirty no matter the outcome.

Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?

Source: https://twitter.com/IndyWhiskeyAz" target="_blank

Came from Reddit actually, not that it really matters

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegebasketb ... /72y1mw/_/" target="_blank

Luke Walton would hate this. His number.

Geary must be doubly pissed.

[CatFanOneMil]

Someone questioned me when I suggested that if thsi was a rampant as we are all acting then there would be NBA players coming out of the woodwork exposing it...so far no one has...but the other side of the coin is starting to show...

Wall says the $ thing might have been there but he suggest that a lot of players refuse to play that way, which is my point...this is not widespread enough to be the "temites in the building of the entire NCAA"...its a few bugs and a few weak people being greedy...same as the rest of humanity...

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washingto ... ign=buffer" target="_blank

[gumby]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

But finding quotes suggests we would take them without knowing the sword is dangling over the neck. Different dynamic when you know.

But the same "crime" happening.

Ignorance is bliss.

I don't understand.

It would be a thrill to win the tourney. Ask USC football fans if they remember the 2004 NC team, even though that team doesn't exist in the record books. I'd take the experience, even knowing it might not last. We can't control that part, so if we have something vacated, it might as well be something awesome.

It changes if we know ahead of time that one player is ineligible and can guarantee the season holds. Given the state of things right now, I do not think that is possible.

Right. It would've been a thrill to win in 1999. But when we learned what JT did, there would've been a shitstorm among fans.

Worked out best for him that we lost in first round, because the school itself didn't lose as much. So he was forgiven. Harder to forgive when it's a natty that's lost.

I want whoever is ineligible rooted out ASAP.

[gumby]

Might as well embrace it. The program will always be seen as dirty no matter the outcome.

Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?

Source: https://twitter.com/IndyWhiskeyAz" target="_blank

Came from Reddit actually, not that it really matters

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegebasketb ... /72y1mw/_/" target="_blank

Luke Walton would hate this. His number.

Geary must be doubly pissed.

[CalStateTempe]

Good take by Gregg Doyle.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/co ... 711098001/" target="_blank

[CalStateTempe]

I want whoever is ineligible rooted out ASAP.

On this particular aspect of this, I am at this point as well. If they took money and the Feds know it, then they should be gone.

[gumby]

Knowing all top 50 teams have their hand in the pot; one the spectrum from clean (furd, whisky, mich) to dirty (lville), where is Arizona?

We are named in the biggest issue to hit CBB in forever. The fbi is involved. Rank it wherever you want but it ain’t good.

One seed.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Gumby:

I don't think the NCAA can found anything on the one and done bc that's an NBA rule they have no control over. Even with that, it doesn't really offend me. Going back to my analogy:

Say a year into Student Y's time at Arizona, a sweet job with Company X opens. Student Y wants it and Company X wants Student Y badly enough that they don't care if Student Y has completed her degree. Student Y leaves for a million dollar contract to head Company X's research department.

Not offensive to me. The early exit is comparable to someone like Lauri deciding another year won't be necessary.

Right, but Student Y doesn't have any fans that scream and cheer every time he handles a beaker. Department heads don't have to worry about landing the next Student Y to soothe fans and keep job. No TV contract money pouring into the university because of interest in those studies.

Different dynamic. The pressures on schools with athletes is very intense. Not so with science students.

So the athlete has more pressure than the student but it's ok if the student gets money and not ok if the athlete gets money?

I don't follow that logic. I can agree that the athlete has more pressure, but I would think that more pressure means we should be less offended if that person gets paid.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Someone questioned me when I suggested that if thsi was a rampant as we are all acting then there would be NBA players coming out of the woodwork exposing it...so far no one has...but the other side of the coin is starting to show...

Wall says the $ thing might have been there but he suggest that a lot of players refuse to play that way, which is my point...this is not widespread enough to be the "temites in the building of the entire NCAA"...its a few bugs and a few weak people being greedy...same as the rest of humanity...

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washingto ... ign=buffer" target="_blank

If John Wall publicly stated that Kentucky paid him, he would have some UK fans on their way to DC to assassinate him. Any NBA player that snitches on his college gets attacked fast. Example, Rashad McCants after he stated that UNC was engaged in (gasp) academic fraud:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday ... 446875001/" target="_blank

If Wall says he got paid, there is no upside. Say he didn't and he will still be revered in Lexington.

I'm not saying I know anything about whether he did or didn't take anything, just that he has every reason to deny it.

[prh]

Yeah, no NBA guys are going to come out and say they got money, and contribute to ruining it for future generations. They want to help the kids coming through. Keyshaun Johnson was discussing it on ESPN yesterday, talking about how a lot of these kids are inner city, parents working multiple jobs, eventually said mostly black kids. He was asked if they're being exploited (in this, not NCAA in general) and he said no. Explained that these guys know how this all works, know what they're doing, and it ends up helping them anyways.

[azpenguin]

Good take by Gregg Doyle.

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/co ... 711098001/" target="_blank

One comment on that (I know, never read the comments, they're a cesspool) did have one idea: No more contracts with shoe companies. Right now, that's seeming like a damn good idea.

[gumby]

Gumby:

I don't think the NCAA can found anything on the one and done bc that's an NBA rule they have no control over. Even with that, it doesn't really offend me. Going back to my analogy:

Say a year into Student Y's time at Arizona, a sweet job with Company X opens. Student Y wants it and Company X wants Student Y badly enough that they don't care if Student Y has completed her degree. Student Y leaves for a million dollar contract to head Company X's research department.

Not offensive to me. The early exit is comparable to someone like Lauri deciding another year won't be necessary.

Right, but Student Y doesn't have any fans that scream and cheer every time he handles a beaker. Department heads don't have to worry about landing the next Student Y to soothe fans and keep job. No TV contract money pouring into the university because of interest in those studies.

Different dynamic. The pressures on schools with athletes is very intense. Not so with science students.

So the athlete has more pressure than the student but it's ok if the student gets money and not ok if the athlete gets money?

I don't follow that logic. I can agree that the athlete has more pressure, but I would think that more pressure means we should be less offended if that person gets paid.

The school has more pressure. To fill stadiums. To have a winning record. To keep the TV money coming. More reasons to turn to corruption to ease pressure.

I'm fine with them getting paid, as long as the school isn't doing it and some connection to education is maintained (otherwise, why is this the location?). Just as the school doesn't pay them for the pizza job.

I don't like the partnerships with shoe companies because they have an interest in steering kids to particular colleges. If they could just pay kids and refrain from steering, OK. But it they're steering, coaches will be right there with a compass.

Must be Metaphor Day.

[CatFanOneMil]

Sooo...maybe I'm impatient but I was under the impression we'd be seeing a lot more shoes dropping...so far its just the one big smelly sneaker...

I think this will be status quo for the next week at least and our ears and eyes will bleed as every journalist and former pro tells us how they all knew all along...funny how no one ever did anything about it though.

[splitsecond]

I'll preface this by disclosing that I work in healthcare legal and regulatory compliance....

I Don't care if "(most) everyone is doing it", and/or if "it's necessary to compete at the highest level". Not. One. Bit.

I hope as many as possible who have in fact participated in this corruption becomes a convicted felon and does hard time. Period.

The only exception I'd support would be (most of) the athletes and their immediate family members, if they turn "state's evidenve" and fully disclose all payments and/or offers.

I just Don't fucking care for cheaters.

Spoken like someone who's job is to justify their own existence at whatever costs.

[CalStateTempe]

I'm just pissed that our tournament teams lost to a bunch of amateurs.

Right there with you man...lol

[97cats]

I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

post of the thread

[ZONACAT]

Circle the wagons like UNC

[rgdeuce]

I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

post of the thread

Is that because of the dead hooker in Miller's backyard bit? NM, don't answer that.

[Alieberman]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

There are a lot of emotions flowing right now... and all are valid.

I'm just not sure I understand why people are seeming pissed at those wishing everything was on the up and up.

[ChooChooCat]

I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

post of the thread

By far.

[MrBug708]

Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

[Olsondogg]

The US House Energy and Commerce committee wants a briefing from the NCAA and shoe companies...

[CalStateTempe]

Circle the wagons like UNC

True, they wrote the playbook.

And won a chipper last year.

[CalStateTempe]

The US House Energy and Commerce committee wants a briefing from the NCAA and shoe companies...

I know this sounds big, but why? What power do they have?

[CatFanOneMil]

The US House Energy and Commerce committee wants a briefing from the NCAA and shoe companies...

Source?

[Olsondogg]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

There are a lot of emotions flowing right now... and all are valid.

I'm just not sure I understand why people are seeming pissed at those wishing everything was on the up and up.

I'm not pissed...I just don't understand the naivety.

[Longhorned]

Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Maybe Miller was getting raided and then the FBI didn't say anything about it for some reason.

Or maybe it was for the same reason the FBI showed up at exactly the same time at the home of the president of the University of Louisville: to inform him about what was about to happen.

The president of Louisville was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious Athletics director.

Sean Miller was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious assistant coach.

[Olsondogg]

Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

I believe they were also moving in on Nike at the same time...

[azgreg]

[Olsondogg]

The US House Energy and Commerce committee wants a briefing from the NCAA and shoe companies...

I know this sounds big, but why? What power do they have?

Regulates interstate commerce...

[MrBug708]

Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Maybe Miller was getting raided and then the FBI didn't say anything about it for some reason.

Or maybe it was for the same reason the FBI showed up at exactly the same time at the home of the president of the University of Louisville: to inform him about what was about to happen.

The president of Louisville was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious Athletics director.

Sean Miller was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious assistant coach.

Did the AD of Arizona get raided too? Or other coaches bosses? I'm assuming Louisville AD was also in on things too? Seems like he should have just resigned before things got worse for him

[Alieberman]

Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

There are a lot of emotions flowing right now... and all are valid.

I'm just not sure I understand why people are seeming pissed at those wishing everything was on the up and up.

I'm not pissed...I just don't understand the naivety.

Really?

I mean, I'm not stupid... I knew there were some "shades of grey" type of deals being done behind the scenes... but no idea they were close to this level. I would guess most people were probably in this camp.

[ChooChooCat]

Didn't the Louisville AD do just that by not firing Pitino when demanded to?