2017-2018 Arizona Basketball

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:29 pm

Dusan and Rawle were the only ones getting rebounds, and I think Dusan did well pulling bown 10 boards. But the really big problem was lack of production from our bench.

6 bench players
42 minutes playing time
2 for 8 shooting for only 5 points
6 rebounds
2 assists to 3 turnovers
4 personal fouls

I mean, with subs getting 42 minutes of playing time, we should be seeing well into double digit scoring, better than 25% shooting, and at least 10 rebounds. IMO, of course.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:42 pm

BBQ wildcat wrote:Dusan and Rawle were the only ones getting rebounds, and I think Dusan did well pulling bown 10 boards. But the really big problem was lack of production from our bench.

6 bench players
42 minutes playing time
2 for 8 shooting for only 5 points
6 rebounds
2 assists to 3 turnovers
4 personal fouls

I mean, with subs getting 42 minutes of playing time, we should be seeing well into double digit scoring, better than 25% shooting, and at least 10 rebounds. IMO, of course.

I don't know. It would have been nice to get more from subs, but offensively we were very good. 50% overall FG and 47.4% from 3. The 6 rebounds is a little more than 1/5 our total, and 42 min is a little more than 1/5 of the total available minutes.

Meaning, overall, we had a good offensive game, it was just mainly the starters. The bench produced the percent of rebounds you'd expect given the number of minutes they played.

I agree it would be nice to get more from the bench, but they really weren't far off on rebounds and didn't limit the overall production on offense.

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:41 pm

Was at the game, UConn really did come ready to play & they do have 4 good players. I was surprised how quickly they managed to double team Ayton...seemed as soon as he had the ball, there were 2 guys forcing him to the sideline. It was a lot of work for them, they did it well till the end till they tired and weren't rotating over to defend our cutters getting some layups. Ayton did throw some nice quick decisive BB passes to Trier and Alkins for open 3s, Ayton does have a complete game. Conn was good to play, a win vs. an east coast team counts a bit more as we know, and they played pretty well overall cohesively as a team. Better on defense than offense, a team if they had like 2 more good offensive players they could be pretty tough.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Dec 25, 2017 1:18 pm

TheGreatCatsby wrote:Was at the game, UConn really did come ready to play & they do have 4 good players. I was surprised how quickly they managed to double team Ayton...seemed as soon as he had the ball, there were 2 guys forcing him to the sideline. It was a lot of work for them, they did it well till the end till they tired and weren't rotating over to defend our cutters getting some layups. Ayton did throw some nice quick decisive BB passes to Trier and Alkins for open 3s, Ayton does have a complete game. Conn was good to play, a win vs. an east coast team counts a bit more as we know, and they played pretty well overall cohesively as a team. Better on defense than offense, a team if they had like 2 more good offensive players they could be pretty tough.

I love seeing teams double Ayton and overload Trier this early in the season. It's great practice, makes for great game film.

Our guys are figuring out where to be to get a look off those defenses and they're answering the call by knocking down open shots. It's fantastic.

Especially with Rawle - because you can't double/overload all three. And Rawle continues to show that if you leave him with your third option defense he'll burn you.

DiehardDave37 · Post by **DiehardDave37** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:47 pm

I'm really puzzled by this team. After 3 games, I thought it would be a shame not to have all 11 players in the rotation because they were doing so well. I was going to feel sorry for whomever did not make it. Now I wonder if 3 will step up and be consistent rotation players. Any insights from those of you who have played the game?

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:11 pm

DiehardDave37 wrote:I'm really puzzled by this team. After 3 games, I thought it would be a shame not to have all 11 players in the rotation because they were doing so well. I was going to feel sorry for whomever did not make it. Now I wonder if 3 will step up and be consistent rotation players. Any insights from those of you who have played the game?

Similar feeling and good question.

billk78 · Post by **billk78** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 9:43 pm

DiehardDave37 wrote:I'm really puzzled by this team. After 3 games, I thought it would be a shame not to have all 11 players in the rotation because they were doing so well. I was going to feel sorry for whomever did not make it. Now I wonder if 3 will step up and be consistent rotation players. Any insights from those of you who have played the game?

Yeah very good point and question. Our rotation guys seem very streaky. The question is: is that because they don't get to stay on the floor long enough to get warm? Or are they just young and inexperienced/inconsistent. I have seen flashes from Dylan Smith, Randolph, Barcello, and even Akot. Some games they are better than others. Does Miller just go with the hot hand? Are we hurting their development if they don't get more minutes?

I'm going to put Ira Lee and Pinder separate because I don't think they are in the same category as those others. Ira lee is a workhorse. He seems to be getting minutes and he should. Lots of energy, defense, rebounding and toughness from that kid. If he just continues to get better I have a feeling he may be one of our favorite cats in 2-3 years.

Pinder is just Pinder. Come in and spell the bigs. Grab a few boards. Bring toughness. I'm not sure I expected much more from him and I think his role is pretty clearly defined.

Now what does this all mean for next year? Obviously right now draft stock for anyone but Ayton, Trier and Rawle is way down. However, I believe Randolph and maybe even a couple others came here thinking they would be one and done. Is this going to be another Kobi Simmons deal where a player gets unhappy, sulks, and leaves? I don't see any of that from Randolph or Akot at all yet but I'm just throwing it out there. I'm assuming Ira lee, Barcello, Dylan Smith should all be back.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:45 pm

Color me unexcited if Dylan Smith plays a significant role next year. I'll grudgingly accept him as a role player off the bench. But if he's an option as a starter, we will have slipped significantly.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:01 am

zonagrad wrote:Color me unexcited if Dylan Smith plays a significant role next year. I'll grudgingly accept him as a role player off the bench. But if he's an option as a starter, we will have slipped significantly.

Hell there's HS seniors out there right now that we could probably land that I'd choose over Smith.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:07 am

DiehardDave37 wrote:I'm really puzzled by this team. After 3 games, I thought it would be a shame not to have all 11 players in the rotation because they were doing so well. I was going to feel sorry for whomever did not make it. Now I wonder if 3 will step up and be consistent rotation players. Any insights from those of you who have played the game?

My 2 cents:

I think the first thing is that we have not looked like the dominant team everyone expected. If we were rolling through people, Miller would probably still have just about everyone playing. Realizing we have a reduced margin for error is the major driver.

Next, a lot of the in/out guys are freshmen. I don't think you can overstate how different HS is from college in every way. From the way players get treated by coaches to the game itself, there is just no comparison. Some people make that jump, some don't, some take time.

Barcello and Lee were always probably destined for the roles they currently have, IMO. They were always developmental prospects who should be realizing their contribution roles as upperclassmen and not a whole lot before then.

Akot has been below what I expected, but if he has knee issues, I'll give him a pass on that. I might have expected a bit more out of Randolph, but it was always going to be tough to crack a rotation dominated by Rawle and Zo. Those are two good players to be competing for PT with. I still REALLY hope Akot and Randolph return to anchor next year's team.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:08 am

2018 3-star F Sam Froling could commit ‘within the next week or two’

The 2018 three-star prospect is now back in Australia where he will “probably” decide on a school “within the next week or two,” he told 247Sports’ Evan Daniels.

When recounting his Arizona visit, the 6-foot-9, 205-pound Froling likened himself to a certain stretch-forward that Arizona fans will fondly remember.

“Sean Miller is an exceptional coach,” he told Daniels. “They’re a very respected program and looking at the guys they’ve had at my position in the past, like Lauri Markkanen, and them just being able to improve players from my position.”

The Aussie is ranked 83rd in 247Sports’ rankings, but 130th when factoring in other site’s rankings. In my experience, 247 usually is more up to date than other sites, which means Froling will likely see a boost once he commits to a program.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/recruitin ... recruiting" target="_blank

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:30 am

Froling is 100% a 4 year guy. It continues the idea of adding developmental prospects during the period of time it's impossible to add the big timers.

I would be surprised if Froling did anything in 2018 for Arizona or any other school, but you don't take him for the immediate impact.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:47 am

Probably the wrong thread to discuss Froling, but his importance (if he commits) stems from the notion from a public relations stand point that every thing at Arizona is returning to normalcy. He's certainly a 4 year guy that I see as a bit of a slightly smaller Ristic clone and he'd contribute (may have no choice, but to contribute as the back up 5 next year) down the line certainly, but his importance certainly comes from a public perception stand point than anything else.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 8:52 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Probably the wrong thread to discuss Froling, but his importance (if he commits) stems from the notion from a public relations stand point that every thing at Arizona is returning to normalcy. He's certainly a 4 year guy that I see as a bit of a slightly smaller Ristic clone and he'd contribute (may have no choice, but to contribute as the back up 5 next year) down the line certainly, but his importance certainly comes from a public perception stand point than anything else.

Good note, Choo. Any new commitment to Arizona is a sign of confidence that could breed further confidence in the recruiting pool.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:14 am

ChooChooCat wrote:Probably the wrong thread to discuss Froling, but his importance (if he commits) stems from the notion from a public relations stand point that every thing at Arizona is returning to normalcy. He's certainly a 4 year guy that I see as a bit of a slightly smaller Ristic clone and he'd contribute (may have no choice, but to contribute as the back up 5 next year) down the line certainly, but his importance certainly comes from a public perception stand point than anything else.

From my finest YouTube analysis, he seems more mobile than Dusan. He is smaller and skinnier, so it comes at a price, but I'd class him closer to a guy like Brock Motum for WSU. Motum was one who produced very little early on and blossomed as an upperclassman, which is basically the goal here.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:19 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Probably the wrong thread to discuss Froling, but his importance (if he commits) stems from the notion from a public relations stand point that every thing at Arizona is returning to normalcy. He's certainly a 4 year guy that I see as a bit of a slightly smaller Ristic clone and he'd contribute (may have no choice, but to contribute as the back up 5 next year) down the line certainly, but his importance certainly comes from a public perception stand point than anything else.
From my finest YouTube analysis, he seems more mobile than Dusan. He is smaller and skinnier, so it comes at a price, but I'd class him closer to a guy like Brock Motum for WSU. Motum was one who produced very little early on and blossomed as an upperclassman, which is basically the goal here.

Plus he was also an Aussie.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:28 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:Probably the wrong thread to discuss Froling, but his importance (if he commits) stems from the notion from a public relations stand point that every thing at Arizona is returning to normalcy. He's certainly a 4 year guy that I see as a bit of a slightly smaller Ristic clone and he'd contribute (may have no choice, but to contribute as the back up 5 next year) down the line certainly, but his importance certainly comes from a public perception stand point than anything else.
From my finest YouTube analysis, he seems more mobile than Dusan. He is smaller and skinnier, so it comes at a price, but I'd class him closer to a guy like Brock Motum for WSU. Motum was one who produced very little early on and blossomed as an upperclassman, which is basically the goal here.
Plus he was also an Aussie.

That's why I'm here, to provide player comparisons that are specific to national origin. That's partially why I think Deandre Ayton could be the Al Roker of basketball.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:38 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
That's why I'm here, to provide player comparisons that are specific to national origin. That's partially why I think Deandre Ayton could be the Al Roker of basketball.

I always considered him the Sidney Poitier of basketball, but touche my friend.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:59 am

ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
That's why I'm here, to provide player comparisons that are specific to national origin. That's partially why I think Deandre Ayton could be the Al Roker of basketball.
I always considered him the Sidney Poitier of basketball, but touche my friend.

Sidney Poitier is the Deandre Ayton of acting, with the incredible gifts.

Ayton is the Roker of basketball because he can make it rain from the perimeter for a big guy. It's all very complicated until you realize they're all from the Bahamas.

It gets harder when you try to figure out how Steve Nash is like Anthony Bennett.

prh · Post by **prh** » Fri Dec 29, 2017 10:33 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
That's why I'm here, to provide player comparisons that are specific to national origin. That's partially why I think Deandre Ayton could be the Al Roker of basketball.
I always considered him the Sidney Poitier of basketball, but touche my friend.
Sidney Poitier is the Deandre Ayton of acting, with the incredible gifts.

Ayton is the Roker of basketball because he can make it rain from the perimeter for a big guy. It's all very complicated until you realize they're all from the Bahamas.

It gets harder when you try to figure out how Steve Nash is like Anthony Bennett.

Too easy Spiff try another

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:46 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FACj3r_nx60" target="_blank

this guy is the goat

predicted us to the nc earlier in the year because of... not entirely sure tbh

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:35 pm

I like predictions #11, 13, and 27

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men ... est-season" target="_blank

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:33 pm

dmjcat wrote:I like predictions #11, 13, and 27

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men ... est-season" target="_blank

Good one dmjcat...me too. Would like to change #22 to ‘Arizona will win the NC’ though....yes, I am a Homer.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:38 pm

First, after 6 years of stud 7 footers...it’s going to be seriously missed next year.

Second, can you freakin’ imagine if Lauri had stuck to his original plan, or serious option, and returned this year??? We’d be unstoppable even with our elite PG deficiency. God I hate the OND era so much.

Third, it’s FF or bust as next year will be a rebuild I suspect. BTFD.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:03 am

Even though previous Miller teams have been better defensively, have had better bench production, and have been stronger at PG, I think this is his best chance to reach the FF for one reason: Ayton. We've never had "that guy." He's Greg Oden. He's Anthony Davis. He's Kevin Love. He's that guy who's simply head and shoulders better than everyone. So even with this year's various concerns (PJC, inconsistent bench play, inability to play solid D for 40 minutes, etc.), we just need to be "good enough" in the tourney. We have to win six games. It's likely that half of those will be against teams who haven't seen a starting five with two 7-footers, one of whom is a young David Robinson.

If Ayton is on our team last year, instead of Lauri, we beat Xavier. That's not a knock on Lauri; he was one of the best freshman to ever play at AZ. It's just that Ayton's presence on the court, in the paint, changes the game. We might've even beaten Gonzaga in the regional final.

Anyway, I hate putting it all on one guy's shoulders, and the great news is that we don't have to! Because along with our beast in the middle, we've got arguably the best one-on-one player in the Pac in Trier. Alkins is our Swiss army knife: he does a little of everything and very rarely has an off game. Ristic seems to be getting better each week. And Parker is probably near his peak right now. PJC is going to occasionally f*** up, and it may even cost a game at some point. But he's doing fine right now; he's doing enough.

This team is getting better each week, it seems. I don't think we're even close to our peak. By March, we'll be able to beat any team in the country. There isn't a single team out there who is simply unbeatable. We have Ayton, and the other 300+ teams don't. This, more than anything, is why I think we're getting at least as far as the FF this year.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:42 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Even though previous Miller teams have been better defensively, have had better bench production, and have been stronger at PG, I think this is his best chance to reach the FF for one reason: Ayton. We've never had "that guy." He's Greg Oden. He's Anthony Davis. He's Kevin Love. He's that guy who's simply head and shoulders better than everyone. So even with this year's various concerns (PJC, inconsistent bench play, inability to play solid D for 40 minutes, etc.), we just need to be "good enough" in the tourney. We have to win six games. It's likely that half of those will be against teams who haven't seen a starting five with two 7-footers, one of whom is a young David Robinson.

If Ayton is on our team last year, instead of Lauri, we beat Xavier. That's not a knock on Lauri; he was one of the best freshman to ever play at AZ. It's just that Ayton's presence on the court, in the paint, changes the game. We might've even beaten Gonzaga in the regional final.

Anyway, I hate putting it all on one guy's shoulders, and the great news is that we don't have to! Because along with our beast in the middle, we've got arguably the best one-on-one player in the Pac in Trier. Alkins is our Swiss army knife: he does a little of everything and very rarely has an off game. Ristic seems to be getting better each week. And Parker is probably near his peak right now. PJC is going to occasionally f*** up, and it may even cost a game at some point. But he's doing fine right now; he's doing enough.

This team is getting better each week, it seems. I don't think we're even close to our peak. By March, we'll be able to beat any team in the country. There isn't a single team out there who is simply unbeatable. We have Ayton, and the other 300+ teams don't. This, more than anything, is why I think we're getting at least as far as the FF this year.

Good post BC. Alonzo was and is pure money at the end of most games....we wouldn’t have beaten ASU without him last night. 35 minutes, 23 points, 4/0 Assists to TOs, and 10-10 Free Throws. When it comes to closing out games having Zo with Ayton along with the other studs is deadly.....I still can’t believe the Bahamas Disaster......must have been a voodoo curse along with immature Freshmen.....whatever it was, this is not even remotely the same team. Color me impressed. BTFD.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:31 am

BC and BW Happy New Year guys! 2 dedicated Wildcat fans writing just a few minutes after midnight...wow. Impressed here...flashbacks to all night rap sessions (other site).

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:30 am

HiCat wrote:BC and BW Happy New Year guys! 2 dedicated Wildcat fans writing just a few minutes after midnight...wow. Impressed here...flashbacks to all night rap sessions (other site).

Thank you sir! A very Happy New Year to you too HiCat. To be honest though, I was writing from Bangkok so it was mid to late morning as I was waiting for my wife to wake up after a 3am NYE Party at my neighbors condo on the 50th floor overlooking the river here AND (run on sentence here, lol) across from a major Tourist Park.

So after last year’s solemn, no fireworks, mourning over the dead King period....this year wholly hell was unleashed.....majorly awesome fireworks all over the city. The Thais do like their fun. Anyways, hope you had a good NYE and was in a good mood from the kickass win over our hated rivals ‘Guard U’, smh, lol, or were they just being ironic considering all of our legendary guards?

Well, wouldn’t it be great if 2018 brought us the P12 Championship, Conference Championship, and a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. Ok, I’m greedy.

.

Bear Down HiCat and all my other fellow Wildcats. I have a really good feeling about this year and our future success....also a positive, albeit already painful, ending to the FBI thing. I’m staying optimistic....who wants to do the same?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 2:29 pm

Happy new year, guys. 2018 is going to be a great year for AZ hoops, imo. I'm not convinced this FBI thing is going to have a lasting impact, the way that some fear.

I really didn't mean to take away from what Trier has done this season. He occasionally rushes a three or tries too hard to attack the defense single-handedly, but generally, good things happen when he touches the ball. There are times when he looks like a young Kobe out there, with his ability to get to the rim and draw fouls. Trier is our most dangerous wing, for sure.

That said, Trier has to be looking for DA every time down the floor. Ayton isn't as good as Shaq, but the same logic applies here. Any team Shaq played for would generally try to clear space for him and make sure he touched the ball on the majority of possessions. I can see that Miller is doing this, but it's on our players too. They have to be willing to defer to Ayton. If the ball is in his hands, we have the greatest chance to score, and over the course of a game, we have the greatest chance to win. I can already see our guys recognizing this huge advantage we have with Ayton, and by March, I expect we'll have a pretty good flow to our offense, with DA getting lots of touches throughout the game.

Miller's challenge is going to be prepping our guys for full court presses and zones. These defenses reduce the likelihood of Ayton getting the ball in a set halfcourt offense. ASU exploited our inexperience with breaking a press. We turned the ball over like crazy. If we tighten this up by March and force teams to get back on D, we'll be FF bound.

Bear down!

Captain Obvious · Post by **Captain Obvious** » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:43 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:Happy new year, guys. 2018 is going to be a great year for AZ hoops, imo. I'm not convinced this FBI thing is going to have a lasting impact, the way that some fear.

I really didn't mean to take away from what Trier has done this season. He occasionally rushes a three or tries too hard to attack the defense single-handedly, but generally, good things happen when he touches the ball. There are times when he looks like a young Kobe out there, with his ability to get to the rim and draw fouls. Trier is our most dangerous wing, for sure.

That said, Trier has to be looking for DA every time down the floor. Ayton isn't as good as Shaq, but the same logic applies here. Any team Shaq played for would generally try to clear space for him and make sure he touched the ball on the majority of possessions. I can see that Miller is doing this, but it's on our players too. They have to be willing to defer to Ayton. If the ball is in his hands, we have the greatest chance to score, and over the course of a game, we have the greatest chance to win. I can already see our guys recognizing this huge advantage we have with Ayton, and by March, I expect we'll have a pretty good flow to our offense, with DA getting lots of touches throughout the game.

Miller's challenge is going to be prepping our guys for full court presses and zones. These defenses reduce the likelihood of Ayton getting the ball in a set halfcourt offense. ASU exploited our inexperience with breaking a press. We turned the ball over like crazy. If we tighten this up by March and force teams to get back on D, we'll be FF bound.

Bear down!

My concern mirrors Spaceman's; lack of bench production. And my other concern is at point guard. I believe Barcello will improve but for us to be a serious FF contender we have to have more consistency at the PG position. If we're struggling to convert our offensive sets teams will collapse into a zone and force us to shoot over it testing our point guards ability to distribute the ball and run the offense. I've been pleasantly surprised with Smith's three point shooting. Having another shooter we can rely on alleviates the pressure on Trier and Rawle and frees them up for closer shots at the basket through dribble penetration. I like the improvement on defense but know the Cats will have to maintain their intensity and not let off the gas like at the end of the ASU game.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:07 am

We really need to chill with the zone fear mongering this year. Outside of a few lapses, this team has done well against zone defenses. It's certainly nothing even close to what we have seen in recent years. There have been multiple games where teams have switched to zone and abandoned it shortly after because it wasn't working.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:07 am

rgdeuce wrote:We really need to chill with the zone fear mongering this year. Outside of a few lapses, this team has done well against zone defenses. It's certainly nothing even close to what we have seen in recent years. There have been multiple games where teams have switched to zone and abandoned it shortly after because it wasn't working.

Ayton is a zone killer. It’s just stupid to run a 2-3 against him - leaves him wide open in the middle of the zone for jumpers, to pass out of to three capable three point shooters (and two capable slashers), or create off the dribble. We keep seeing it - teams deploying and then abandoning - and I love it.

Wonder what Washington will do since they love the 2-3.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:24 am

YoDeFoe wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:We really need to chill with the zone fear mongering this year. Outside of a few lapses, this team has done well against zone defenses. It's certainly nothing even close to what we have seen in recent years. There have been multiple games where teams have switched to zone and abandoned it shortly after because it wasn't working.
Ayton is a zone killer. It’s just stupid to run a 2-3 against him - leaves him wide open in the middle of the zone for jumpers, to pass out of to three capable three point shooters (and two capable slashers), or create off the dribble. We keep seeing it - teams deploying and then abandoning - and I love it.

Wonder what Washington will do since they love the 2-3.

It isn't even just him getting open. One weird way that Ayton's insane length and hands benefit us is that we can basically always feed him at the elbow because no one other than Mo Bamba has the length to contest his catch. He can bunny hop into catching a pass 10 feet off the ground.

He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:06 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.

His footwork is pretty amazing.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 12:13 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.
His footwork is pretty amazing.

I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.

luteformayor2 · Post by **luteformayor2** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:27 pm

Trier and Ayton are the 1 and 2 most efficient players in CBB

https://twitter.com/SynergySST/status/9 ... 9290169346" target="_blank

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:47 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.
His footwork is pretty amazing.
I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.

Do you remember when Arizona lost to Purdue in the first round of the NCAA tourney in 2007? On that very day, Deandre was a pudgy 9 year old kid without a mustache.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:53 pm

Longhorned wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.
His footwork is pretty amazing.
I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.
Do you remember when Arizona lost to Purdue in the first round of the NCAA tourney in 2007? On that very day, Deandre was a pudgy 9 year old kid without a mustache.

At 9, I'm pretty sure Deandre would have blocked that shot from the knees.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:43 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.
His footwork is pretty amazing.
I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.

LMAO Spiff! Good one.

I wonder how big an infant he was.....Wow, his poor Mother.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:18 pm

Longhorned wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.
His footwork is pretty amazing.
I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.
Do you remember when Arizona lost to Purdue in the first round of the NCAA tourney in 2007? On that very day, Deandre was a pudgy 9 year old kid without a mustache.

Remember? Are you kidding me? I have hated them ever since they made us look so soft. Arghhh! Don't bring that up, please.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:53 pm

rgdeuce wrote:We really need to chill with the zone fear mongering this year. Outside of a few lapses, this team has done well against zone defenses. It's certainly nothing even close to what we have seen in recent years. There have been multiple games where teams have switched to zone and abandoned it shortly after because it wasn't working.

Anyone watch the UW-UCLA game. Both offenses ground to halt against zone. Then UCLA figured it out, and UW had no answer (cuz they don't do man).

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:46 am

gumby wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:We really need to chill with the zone fear mongering this year. Outside of a few lapses, this team has done well against zone defenses. It's certainly nothing even close to what we have seen in recent years. There have been multiple games where teams have switched to zone and abandoned it shortly after because it wasn't working.
Anyone watch the UW-UCLA game. Both offenses ground to halt against zone. Then UCLA figured it out, and UW had no answer (cuz they don't do man).

Yeah that’s what i was referencing in another post: what will UW do against us since their beloved Syracuse-style 2-3 is going to get burned to the ground by Ayton and co? Should be interesting and should help us prepare for potential defensive looks we may see come March.

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 4:51 pm

rgdeuce wrote:We really need to chill with the zone fear mongering this year. Outside of a few lapses, this team has done well against zone defenses. It's certainly nothing even close to what we have seen in recent years. There have been multiple games where teams have switched to zone and abandoned it shortly after because it wasn't working.

not like zone has ever torpedoed UA in a big game or anything

. That's because Millers approach to beating a zone is very simple: (Plan A) Pray you don't have a below-avg night from 3, (Plan B) Simply out-talent them with Aytons, Gordons and RHJs.

There's no trying to speed up the tempo so the other team can't get set, no full court press to try to get easy buckets, no taking advantage of mismatches

Maybe with Ayton we have enough to just out-talent the other team and we were able to do that against an overachieving group of 3*/4* scrubs from Tempe

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:17 pm

RiseAndFire wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:We really need to chill with the zone fear mongering this year. Outside of a few lapses, this team has done well against zone defenses. It's certainly nothing even close to what we have seen in recent years. There have been multiple games where teams have switched to zone and abandoned it shortly after because it wasn't working.
not like zone has ever torpedoed UA in a big game or anything . That's because Millers approach to beating a zone is very simple: (Plan A) Pray you don't have a below-avg night from 3, (Plan B) Simply out-talent them with Aytons, Gordons and RHJs.

There's no trying to speed up the tempo so the other team can't get set, no full court press to try to get easy buckets, no taking advantage of mismatches

Maybe with Ayton we have enough to just out-talent the other team and we were able to do that against an overachieving group of 3*/4* scrubs from Tempe

Now we're unhappy when we beat an undefeated, top five team. This is a new low for you.

I like how you don't think we have strategy.

Puerco · Post by **Puerco** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:29 am

I like the idea of scrapping your normal defense to get into a full court press (because that always works well) just because you’re afraid your offense can’t crack a zone. Sheesh. Just hand the other coach the game and go to the locker room instead.

SunnyAZ · Post by **SunnyAZ** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:17 pm

luteformayor2 wrote:Trier and Ayton are the 1 and 2 most efficient players in CBB

https://twitter.com/SynergySST/status/9 ... 9290169346" target="_blank

That Markus Howard fellow committed to ASU (he's from Chandler). Thankfully he changed his mind and went to Marquette. He dropped 52 the other day. He's also shooting 100% from the ft line, somewhere in the 50s made in a row.

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:28 pm

Spiff, thumping of the chest about beating asu at home by 6 is cool.... you can do that I guess. Yes Im happy we won. Weve also beat asu for 7 years in a row at McKale. I mean did you think we should storm the court? Are you buying Final Four flights and hotel?

We have a strategy for zone, the problem is (as demonstrated in the game vs 11-seed Xavier) that it relies on making your 3's at a respectable clip. Off game, you lose season over. The good news is our average is very high for the 3-ball this year. It better be because we have no backup plan to say, speed up the tempo to get more than 1-2 fast breaks easy buckets per 40 min.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:33 pm

RiseAndFire wrote:
We have a strategy for zone, the problem is (as demonstrated in the game vs 11-seed Xavier) that it relies on making your 3's at a respectable clip. Off game, you lose season over. The good news is our average is very high for the 3-ball this year. It better be because we have no backup plan to say, speed up the tempo to get more than 1-2 fast breaks easy buckets per 40 min.

there is also the X-factor in Ayton that your'e not accounting for this season, who makes it almost impossible to zone AZ for long stretches because of his ability and versatility in the middle of the zone from the free throw line extended to see over the top, distribute, put it on the deck, or hit the face up jumper.

im hoping that mitigates some of the problems from the past against the zone when AZ plays bigger more physical teams in the NCAA Tournament.

however, my biggest concern is still at the lead guard spot for six games straight, but per the suggestion of many here i respect i will take the wait and see approach, even tho im not confident in that spot consistently over a three week period in physical, tight, close, grind-it-out games.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Jan 04, 2018 3:52 pm

RiseAndFire wrote:Spiff, thumping of the chest about beating asu at home by 6 is cool.... you can do that I guess. Yes Im happy we won. Weve also beat asu for 7 years in a row at McKale. I mean did you think we should storm the court? Are you buying Final Four flights and hotel?

We have a strategy for zone, the problem is (as demonstrated in the game vs 11-seed Xavier) that it relies on making your 3's at a respectable clip. Off game, you lose season over. The good news is our average is very high for the 3-ball this year. It better be because we have no backup plan to say, speed up the tempo to get more than 1-2 fast breaks easy buckets per 40 min.

Most offensive game plans require making jumpers. Good teams will limit your ability to get to the rim hecause they are good teams. North Carolina took 27 threes in the NC game they won last year.

You discuss options like there's nothing to adding them in. It just doesn't work like that. Virtually every team needs to make jumpers to win games.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:27 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
He also has really good timing and accuracy on turning, facing and shooting the elbow J. He is better from the FT line than short corner by a good amount.
His footwork is pretty amazing.
I'm convinced that Deandre came out of the womb and immediately stepped into a midrange jumper with perfect footwork.

It's probably the soccer background (see Hakeem).

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