The case for patience

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:08 pm

The news tonight is shocking, and I get why people want answers and action. Here's a case for Arizona being patient. I could certainly be wrong, which is why I'm a faceless internet person.

--How deep does this all go? There are a number of issues with jumping into things. If this wiretap took 4+ months to come out, how much is left? Depending on what more there is, taking action right now is something you can't walk back when the next shoe drops.

--What is left in college ball? I think there's a legit chance the current NCAA system is finished. It would be sort of sick to drop the hammer on ourselves and have the NCAA change the rules to allow what we just dropped the hammer on.

--Who is left? Fire Miller and you have to hire a replacement. If you want a clean replacement...well, tell me who's definitely clean right now.

--What does it matter anyways? If you think Ayton was ineligible, our season is already over. There's no point in sitting him. We've already crossed that point.

Now watch this post backfire and we'll have disbanded the program by midnight. I need to go to bed.

Gilbertcat · Post by **Gilbertcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:10 pm

Meh I was on the self sanction wagon last year. This time it's par for the course. Everyone is going down. Hell the Pac 12 Task Force is led by Utahs AD who has his own issues.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:13 pm

Gilbertcat wrote:Meh I was on the self sanction wagon last year. This time it's par for the course. Everyone is going down. Hell the Pac 12 Task Force is led by Utahs AD who has his own issues.

My first call as Arizona AD would be the NCAA. I'd want to know what they'll be doing on an organizational level, because that dictates so much of what we would do as an institution.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:17 pm

Gilbertcat wrote:Meh I was on the self sanction wagon last year. This time it's par for the course. Everyone is going down. Hell the Pac 12 Task Force is led by Utahs AD who has his own issues.

Wrong.........Kuzma was being paid by an agent. There is no phone conversation with Krystowiak on it (That we know of).

Thats a common thread on the board tonight.........everyone is doing it so we'll skate. The reality (at the moment) is that only a handful of programs have been implicated through their assistants/coaches. Most of the $$$$$ to recruits was being paid by agents. The programs who have had their assistants/coaches implicated are going to be drawn and quartered. The programs who had players getting paid by agents (with no evidence against their coaches) will likely walk scott-free..........and that is the majority of the programs at the moment. Unfortunately, we had a head coach/assistant who were stupid enough (or really unlucky) to get caught with their pants down.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:19 pm

My daughter is a DA that writes wiretaps, Federal law requires that as soon as the wiretap is complete (meaning it has run the duration or the evidence is collected) BY LAW ALL PARTIES INVOLVED WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE WIRETAP MUST BE INFORMED...

So Sean Miller has known about this for the entire season...he has known about it form the start of the season when he had to meet with the Uni's legal team and the new AD has stood behind him, either he is guilty and admitted it or an idiot or it is not what it appears.

The fact that this evidence is out means he has known all year...

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:19 pm

I want the ncaa and the entire bullshit charade of "amateur college student athletes" to die a fiery death ASAP

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:20 pm

I think a lot depends on what Miller actually said. Discussing paying players is bad. Miller specifically implicating himself and the program (as opposed to Miller being vague and Dawkins doing all the talking) is much much worse.

At this point, we really don’t know what Miller said or didn’t say. I’m holding out hope it wasn’t much.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:21 pm

CatFanOneMil wrote:My daughter is a DA that writes wiretaps, Federal law requires that as soon as the wiretap is complete (meaning it has run the duration or the evidence is collected) BY LAW ALL PARTIES INVOLVED WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE WIRETAP MUST BE INFORMED...

So Sean Miller has known about this for the entire season...he has known about it form the start of the season when he had to meet with the Uni's legal team and the new AD has stood behind him, either he is guilty and admitted it or an idiot or it is not what it appears.

The fact that this evidence is out means he has known all year...

again when was the wiretap?

before or after ayton signed?

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:23 pm

CatFanOneMil wrote:My daughter is a DA that writes wiretaps, Federal law requires that as soon as the wiretap is complete (meaning it has run the duration or the evidence is collected) BY LAW ALL PARTIES INVOLVED WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE WIRETAP MUST BE INFORMED...

So Sean Miller has known about this for the entire season...he has known about it form the start of the season when he had to meet with the Uni's legal team and the new AD has stood behind him, either he is guilty and admitted it or an idiot or it is not what it appears.

The fact that this evidence is out means he has known all year...

Miller ain't a Witch. He's a Polar Bear! A fucking Polar Bear! I'm down with that. Who's with me?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:25 pm

dmjcat wrote:
Gilbertcat wrote:Meh I was on the self sanction wagon last year. This time it's par for the course. Everyone is going down. Hell the Pac 12 Task Force is led by Utahs AD who has his own issues.
Wrong.........Kuzma was being paid by an agent. There is no phone conversation with Krystowiak on it (That we know of).

Thats a common thread on the board tonight.........everyone is doing it so we'll skate. The reality (at the moment) is that only a handful of programs have been implicated through their assistants/coaches. Most of the $$$$$ to recruits was being paid by agents. The programs who have had their assistants/coaches implicated are going to be drawn and quartered. The programs who had players getting paid by agents (with no evidence against their coaches) will likely walk scott-free..........and that is the majority of the programs at the moment. Unfortunately, we had a head coach/assistant who were stupid enough (or really unlucky) to get caught with their pants down.

Yeah, all Utah did was play an ineligible player for a few years, locking themselves into vacating at least one 20 win season.

No one thinks we'll skate, so stop with the strawman argument.

And yes, everyone is doing it. The FBI stated at the outset that 150k was the going rate for a Top 20 recruit. The truth of that has been proved more and more today. Believing any school that landed a 5 star didn't get a player who's compromised is silly.

And that's why Utah and Krytowiak have very little defensibility. Saying they didn't get caught on a wire, ok. That does not equate to them not being aware of how things work and not wanting to know about Kuzma.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:27 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:My daughter is a DA that writes wiretaps, Federal law requires that as soon as the wiretap is complete (meaning it has run the duration or the evidence is collected) BY LAW ALL PARTIES INVOLVED WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE WIRETAP MUST BE INFORMED...

So Sean Miller has known about this for the entire season...he has known about it form the start of the season when he had to meet with the Uni's legal team and the new AD has stood behind him, either he is guilty and admitted it or an idiot or it is not what it appears.

The fact that this evidence is out means he has known all year...
again when was the wiretap?

before or after ayton signed?

There is a good chance that Miller was informed about the wiretap before the FBI even came forward back at the start...if he incriminated himself he would have known, I cannot imagine Miller would not immediately consult with a lawyer the minute the FBI informed him his conversation had been taped...

I'm not sure it matters when the conversation took place what i am wondering is the actions of Miller and the University since then...knowing what he had to know...if he lied to the AD he needs to be gone tomorrow...if he came clean to the AD and the legal eagles moved in there might be a chance that there is no verifiable evidence other than a conversation...

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:30 pm

By Law the FBI only has 30 days to inform ALL parties they were taped once the evidence is collected...

My daughter told me the last wiretap she did (a small county in N Cali) there were 9 phones connected in the wiretap she said the amount of calls is always HUGE and thats a small wiretap.

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:30 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
dmjcat wrote:
Gilbertcat wrote:Meh I was on the self sanction wagon last year. This time it's par for the course. Everyone is going down. Hell the Pac 12 Task Force is led by Utahs AD who has his own issues.
Wrong.........Kuzma was being paid by an agent. There is no phone conversation with Krystowiak on it (That we know of).

Thats a common thread on the board tonight.........everyone is doing it so we'll skate. The reality (at the moment) is that only a handful of programs have been implicated through their assistants/coaches. Most of the $$$$$ to recruits was being paid by agents. The programs who have had their assistants/coaches implicated are going to be drawn and quartered. The programs who had players getting paid by agents (with no evidence against their coaches) will likely walk scott-free..........and that is the majority of the programs at the moment. Unfortunately, we had a head coach/assistant who were stupid enough (or really unlucky) to get caught with their pants down.
Yeah, all Utah did was play an ineligible player for a few years, locking themselves into vacating at least one 20 win season.

No one thinks we'll skate, so stop with the strawman argument.

And yes, everyone is doing it. The FBI stated at the outset that 150k was the going rate for a Top 20 recruit. The truth of that has been proved more and more today. Believing any school that landed a 5 star didn't get a player who's compromised is silly.

And that's why Utah and Krytowiak have very little defensibility. Saying they didn't get caught on a wire, ok. That does not equate to them not being aware of how things work and not wanting to know about Kuzma.

No strawman here.............just reality. The reality is that if no Utah coaches/boosters knew about the payments then Utah is highly unlikely to be punished by the NCAA. AZ, on the other hand, is going to get reamed. Thats how the NCAA works.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:31 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:I want the ncaa and the entire bullshit charade of "amateur college student athletes" to die a fiery death ASAP

Yep.

I wrote a paper on paying athletes waaaaaaay back in high school. Needless to say, it wasn't well received at the time.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:34 pm

zonagrad wrote:
scumdevils86 wrote:I want the ncaa and the entire bullshit charade of "amateur college student athletes" to die a fiery death ASAP
Yep.

I wrote a paper on paying athletes waaaaaaay back in high school. Needless to say, it wasn't well received at the time.

I don't give one single shit if talented kids want to be paid for playing ball. Fine. Great. Just don't wrap it in this ridiculous guise of pure, academic, clean amateurism.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:35 pm

My best bud from my UofA days just texted me that tomorrow we'll find out the softball team was using kittens for batting practice.

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:38 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:
scumdevils86 wrote:I want the ncaa and the entire bullshit charade of "amateur college student athletes" to die a fiery death ASAP
Yep.

I wrote a paper on paying athletes waaaaaaay back in high school. Needless to say, it wasn't well received at the time.
I don't give one single shit if talented kids want to be paid for playing ball. Fine. Great. Just don't wrap it in this ridiculous guise of pure, academic, clean amateurism.

Yup

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:39 pm

dovecanyoncat wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:My daughter is a DA that writes wiretaps, Federal law requires that as soon as the wiretap is complete (meaning it has run the duration or the evidence is collected) BY LAW ALL PARTIES INVOLVED WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE WIRETAP MUST BE INFORMED...

So Sean Miller has known about this for the entire season...he has known about it form the start of the season when he had to meet with the Uni's legal team and the new AD has stood behind him, either he is guilty and admitted it or an idiot or it is not what it appears.

The fact that this evidence is out means he has known all year...
Miller ain't a Witch. He's a Polar Bear! A fucking Polar Bear! I'm down with that. Who's with me?

Polar bear????? More like a dead skunk in the middle of the road on a really hot day

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:42 pm

scumdevils86 wrote:
zonagrad wrote:
scumdevils86 wrote:I want the ncaa and the entire bullshit charade of "amateur college student athletes" to die a fiery death ASAP
Yep.

I wrote a paper on paying athletes waaaaaaay back in high school. Needless to say, it wasn't well received at the time.
I don't give one single shit if talented kids want to be paid for playing ball. Fine. Great. Just don't wrap it in this ridiculous guise of pure, academic, clean amateurism.

This is the way it needs to go if College athletics wants to survive. People like to root for the team of their college. If this goes away so does a large part of the college/alumni experience.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:44 pm

I honestly wonder about the current mental and physical health of Sean Miller.

Was today a relief? A sword that was falling slowly that he had full knowledge of, as discussed above? Or a swift hit.

There is poor Allonzo Trier, very, very overshadowed over a grain of metabolite in his body.

But to Miller...he was sloppy, arrogant, and maybe distracted if this is true, and there is no reason to believe it isn't. This ends his career for a while. Is he OK? Is he in Eugene? On a plane home? Where is home? Does someone have an eye on him?

Someone who burns this hard, with a legendary coach dad, and brother in the system...is he OK? I wonder.

LBdCactus · Post by **LBdCactus** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:59 pm

Entirely possible that Yahoo reached out to CSM Thursday at some point before the game for a comment on the story going live the next day. Would explain his demeanor after the game. He knew what was coming. On top of the Trier thing.

I'm all for patience, especially since the full scope of the investigation has not been revealed. I don't think you fire someone over speculation. He hasn't been charged, I'm still not sure there is even an actual crime (NCAA violations, yes) but I'm not sure what you do about it without someone showing you evidence. I doubt the FBI would share evidence pertaining to an ongoing investigation.

So yes, patience, but ultimately things will not be the same after today.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:05 pm

Official University response is to point people back to the statement they put out months ago after Book’s arrest?

Sounds like they’re being patient.

Beefcurtainsandwich · Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:08 pm

97 from the FBI string...

"don't know how the future involvement progresses, but Coach Miller and Arizona was WAY WAY out in front of this as much as it was possible.

the NCAA still is the matter hanging outside that I don't have knowledge to comment on"

And...

"what people are whispering now is it cant all be death penalties and firings, the NCAA and the Athletic Departments cant just burn it all down, and to make everyone accountable that is literally what would have to happen.

im not kidding when i say every top 50 program pays its players, and the top 100 schools violate the rules on benefits in some fashion.

to hold everyone involved to the letter of the law would mean everyone was treated as SMU and that not happening.

the system will be re-worked and adjusted, but it wont be destroyed -- there is way to much money at stake, thats the irony in all of this."

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:09 pm

This (if true) totally disallows an impartial jury if Miller is going to face one...leaking this is a violation of law and if the FBI is doing it, that means their case is a dumpster fire smouldering...

Beefcurtainsandwich · Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:19 pm

More from same:
"he 100% knew about this and knew this was coming and cooperated with the FBI prior to yesterday -- whether it pays dividends immediately or helps in the long run with the NCAA is still a massive unknown."

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:25 pm

Miller fanboy has a point - remain calm!! Sure CSM discussed paying Ayton 100k on an FBI wiretap, but who's to say any money ever changed hands?! Maybe Ayton had a change of heart and decided to come for zero dollars? Yeah thats the ticket!

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:26 pm

Beefcurtainsandwich wrote:More from same:
"he 100% knew about this and knew this was coming and cooperated with the FBI prior to yesterday -- whether it pays dividends immediately or helps in the long run with the NCAA is still a massive unknown."

Those who cooperate with the FBI sometimes do so because they're at fault. I'm not sure what your point is, though.

Beefcurtainsandwich · Fri Feb 23, 2018 11:30 pm

LH - just that there is apparently a lot more to this. Combined w the required notice comments above it makes me think maybe Miller isn't as guilty as espn says.
But who knows.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:58 am

Just a quick point of interest about the FBI...

Here's the current status on the Russia investigation:

Papadoupolos pleads guilty.
Flynn pleads guilty.
Gates pleads guilty.
Manafort faces new charges.
13 Russians face new charges.

Here's the current status on the College Basketball scandal:

No one has plead guilty and some charges have been dropped as well as one agents work being compromised...
The guy who headed the case has been re-assigned and now we are getting leaks from evidence that a gag order was placed on...at minimum it taints the jury setting up for a mistrial.

It is almost like the FBI in this case doesn't want to go forward with this or they really have so little actual criminal charges that they are flushing the final shit out to see if anything floats...

Patience indeed...

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:03 am

Looks like media personalities like Hansen and Jody have staked out their position, and that would be for Miller to go.

They’ll never let that go. For however much longer he’s the coach, they will treat him like a criminal. It’s gonna be ugly.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:47 am

“What do you do when you can’t get out of a thing?”

“Go further in.”

The power 5 should issue a joint statement that they are withdrawing from the NCAA.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:49 am

I'll be patient, but in the meantime I want NCAA THUNDERDOME!

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:50 am

Hey SCC

Welcome back to this show!

How was St. Anton’s!

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:54 am

CalStateTempe wrote:How was St. Anton’s!

Honestly...exhausting in the best way possible.

I’m still in Munich trying to catch up on this shitshow

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:03 am

It would be awesome if all college basketball programs and players agreed that this weekend- no player plays who had ever accepted any type of payment or loan of any amount that they weren’t supposed to

It would be interesting to see who could actually field a team and could actually maybe bring about some honest discussion and change

And yes, I know it would never happen

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:04 am

SCCats wrote:
CalStateTempe wrote:How was St. Anton’s!
Honestly...exhausting in the best way possible.

I’m still in Munich trying to catch up on this shitshow

Yes! I know exactly what that means.

ghostwhitehorse · Post by **ghostwhitehorse** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:49 am

Chicat wrote:Looks like media personalities like Hansen and Jody have staked out their position, and that would be for Miller to go.

They’ll never let that go. For however much longer he’s the coach, they will treat him like a criminal. It’s gonna be ugly.

So. . .do we mispronounce "Hansen" as "Hannity" from now on?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:50 am

ghostwhitehorse wrote:
Chicat wrote:Looks like media personalities like Hansen and Jody have staked out their position, and that would be for Miller to go.

They’ll never let that go. For however much longer he’s the coach, they will treat him like a criminal. It’s gonna be ugly.
So. . .do we mispronounce "Hansen" as "Hannity" from now on?

Nah, Hansen actually gets one right every now and then.

MrMeow · Post by **MrMeow** » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:08 am

Chicat wrote:Looks like media personalities like Hansen and Jody have staked out their position, and that would be for Miller to go.

They’ll never let that go. For however much longer he’s the coach, they will treat him like a criminal. It’s gonna be ugly.

I'm sure Hansen has his fingers crossed he's right this time, but he arrived at his staked out position to sell newspapers. That's his job. Being right is secondary, although I'm sure he'd lie down and spray the ceiling if it happened. Any ugliness will continue for the same reason. It sells newspapers.

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