2018-2019 Arizona Basketball

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:26 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:The level of delusion and rationalization in this thread centered on just adding a couple of players and we'll be fine doesn't qualify as even laughable. It's head shaking level stuff.

It stuns me that a relatively knowledgeable group of hardcore Arizona basketball fan's can rationalize the over-inflated roster talent we have and the depth of the rebuilding task that's ahead of us.

The team we will likely field next year, even with a few grad transfers may have trouble competing in the horrendously crappy PAC12 conference which is a complete laughingstock nationally.

Our team just got lobotomized by 20 points from a group of players that would have never been offered scholarships to Arizona. The year before that the same story, and the year before the same story. We have a trend folks.

I said it before and I'll say it again, outside of Ayton if you're being intellectually honest, our talent level is no where as good as most of you think it is.

And next year there won't be any denying how far we will have dropped. Stop lying to yourselves, a couple of grad transfers are not putting this ship back on course.

So you think that someone Miller just got four guys who were way overrated in their recruiting rankings? Akot Randolph Lee Barcello

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:32 pm

My gawd, you're absolutely the freaking poster child that illustrates my post.

Those kids are overrated and I'm talking about the entire roster not just four freshmen. Do you have eye's to see and the ability to critically think.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:44 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:My gawd, you're absolutely the freaking poster child that illustrates my post.

Those kids are overrated and I'm talking about the entire roster not just four freshmen. Do you have eye's to see and the ability to critically think.

Can Miller take a guy who was overrated, sure. One a year, sure. But four in one year? Come on now. Maybe they will just take a little bit of time to get Miller's system? They didnt live up to expectations this year, I will give you that. But I think it is far too early to write them off for good.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:47 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:My gawd, you're absolutely the freaking poster child that illustrates my post.

Both of those kids are way overrated. Do you have eye's to see and the ability to critically think.

I am probably a poster child too.

Dude rated in front of Akot played 2 games and had 3 ppg. Right after him, 10 ppg.

Right before Randolph, 11 ppg. Right after him, 4 ppg.

Lee, right before him, 8 ppg. Right after, 8 ppg.

The only kids who were over 10 ppg did so for non-tourney teams. People expect all one and dones, but kids being rotation guys max as freshmen isn't odd. Growth is real, and not everyone is ready for a starring role right away. I don't see anything about their production that is off for freshmen who need development and had a fair amount of talent ahead of them.

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:00 pm

rgdeuce wrote:People forgetting we are largely in this predicament because Miller ignored continued advice to dump Book before it bit him in the ass? Another mistake by Miller.

We are Arizona, we shouldnt have the long leash that most other schools have. At minimum, like Choo said, the relationship is toxic. Or soured. Miller lost most of Tucson tonight. That's the reality. Even the most casual fan could see how special Ayton was and how awful it is to get murdered in the first round with him on the floor.

So you are speaking for the majority of Tucson? You don't speak for many that I know. Remember when Miller first got here? Who did we have? That's right...no one. Sol Hill came back because he said Az was his dream school. Brandon Williams has said Az was his dream school. There will be others and don't forget the international pipeline that those kids remember Sean as the US coach. If Miller's bigest fault is blind loyalty ...sign me up.

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:04 pm

Sounds like the AD supports Miller. It's up to him if he wants to continue to coach here.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:05 pm

Spiff, there will be growth for the young guys I don't disagree. My point of emphasis is that we Arizona fans by our very nature and our love for the program and with our history of great teams and players have become our own worst enemies. We, as of late (a few years) are in denial and have scummed to over-inflated group think as it relates to our talent base.

Our roster from top to bottom is not near as talented as most Cat fans want to believe. And the words Arizona in our name is simply a name. The luster of that name has been vastly degraded from earlier years.

Arizona doesn't mean shit on the big stage and the last three years prove that and our gut-wrenching losses three years in a row crystallizes the talent over inflation hype.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:20 pm

Let's hopefully land Doutrieve and Akinjo and force Miller to play small and try something different. Next year will be terrible no matter what, so hopefully being shorthanded forces Miller to change (if he's here of course).

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:22 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:Spiff, there will be growth for the young guys I don't disagree. My point of emphasis is that we Arizona fans by our very nature and our love for the program and with our history of great teams and players have become our own worst enemies. We, as of late (a few years) are in denial and have scummed to over-inflated group think as it relates to our talent base.

Our roster from top to bottom is not near as talented as most Cat fans want to believe. And the words Arizona in our name is simply a name. The luster of that name has been vastly degraded from earlier years.

Arizona doesn't mean shit on the big stage and the last three years prove that and our gut-wrenching losses three years in a row crystallizes the talent over inflation hype.

I may be a homer, but I just feel differently. Akot and Randolph got stacked in a deep, competitive wing rotation, but they are legit, IMO. Akot struggled with tendinitis, but with an offseason of weights and conditioning, I would not be shocked if he could be Pac all defensive team. Randolph slumped bad, but is a big time athlete who was a bigtime scorer in HS. They just weren't beating out Trier and Rawle.

Lee similarly is a good athlete who plays hard, has good touch and needs to figure out this level. I mean, I just see more potential. The only guy I wonder about being a contributor here is Barcello.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:53 pm

TheCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:People forgetting we are largely in this predicament because Miller ignored continued advice to dump Book before it bit him in the ass? Another mistake by Miller.

We are Arizona, we shouldnt have the long leash that most other schools have. At minimum, like Choo said, the relationship is toxic. Or soured. Miller lost most of Tucson tonight. That's the reality. Even the most casual fan could see how special Ayton was and how awful it is to get murdered in the first round with him on the floor.
So you are speaking for the majority of Tucson? You don't speak for many that I know. Remember when Miller first got here? Who did we have? That's right...no one. Sol Hill came back because he said Az was his dream school. Brandon Williams has said Az was his dream school. There will be others and don't forget the international pipeline that those kids remember Sean as the US coach. If Miller's bigest fault is blind loyalty ...sign me up.

Step it up if youre gonna swing. Christ.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:59 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:Spiff, there will be growth for the young guys I don't disagree. My point of emphasis is that we Arizona fans by our very nature and our love for the program and with our history of great teams and players have become our own worst enemies. We, as of late (a few years) are in denial and have scummed to over-inflated group think as it relates to our talent base.

Our roster from top to bottom is not near as talented as most Cat fans want to believe. And the words Arizona in our name is simply a name. The luster of that name has been vastly degraded from earlier years.

Arizona doesn't mean shit on the big stage and the last three years prove that and our gut-wrenching losses three years in a row crystallizes the talent over inflation hype.
I may be a homer, but I just feel differently. Akot and Randolph got stacked in a deep, competitive wing rotation, but they are legit, IMO. Akot struggled with tendinitis, but with an offseason of weights and conditioning, I would not be shocked if he could be Pac all defensive team. Randolph slumped bad, but is a big time athlete who was a bigtime scorer in HS. They just weren't beating out Trier and Rawle.

Lee similarly is a good athlete who plays hard, has good touch and needs to figure out this level. I mean, I just see more potential. The only guy I wonder about being a contributor here is Barcello.

Akot and Randolph are, at worst, honor the process draft picks after their senior years. I doubt Akot will need to stay longer than 3. Regarding Lee, all year we have raved about how good he is going to be in years 3 and 4. I agree with the hesitation on Barcello, but I still think hes gonna be a solid contributor with time. Still a baby. Could be a luxury off the bench as an upperclassman if we right the ship quickly

TheCat · Post by **TheCat** » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:36 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
TheCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:People forgetting we are largely in this predicament because Miller ignored continued advice to dump Book before it bit him in the ass? Another mistake by Miller.

We are Arizona, we shouldnt have the long leash that most other schools have. At minimum, like Choo said, the relationship is toxic. Or soured. Miller lost most of Tucson tonight. That's the reality. Even the most casual fan could see how special Ayton was and how awful it is to get murdered in the first round with him on the floor.
So you are speaking for the majority of Tucson? You don't speak for many that I know. Remember when Miller first got here? Who did we have? That's right...no one. Sol Hill came back because he said Az was his dream school. Brandon Williams has said Az was his dream school. There will be others and don't forget the international pipeline that those kids remember Sean as the US coach. If Miller's bigest fault is blind loyalty ...sign me up.
Step it up if youre gonna swing. Christ.

Don't even know what that means. I have watch Ariz basketball and have seen guys like RJ play as a freshman and said what the hell was Lute thinking. Randolph in Spain was our leading scorer till he got injured. Small sample size but I think he will be good if he stays.You have no perspective and you think for some reason you speak for all of Tucson and you call it reality. What a joke.

SteveKerrsStroke · Post by **SteveKerrsStroke** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:11 am

Ayton was a consensus number 1 and Trier was one of the most efficient scorers in the country. If we had a distributor that could put up a fight at the point of attack and a versatile wing defender we walk to the final four in our bracket.

Of course we land the freshman phenom and mercurial two guard but forget to pick up the dime a dozen complementary utility pieces

But don't try to say we're delusional about our talent level

that's not what sent us home and embarrassed us

WildHolcs · Post by **WildHolcs** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:42 am

SteveKerrsStroke wrote:Ayton was a consensus number 1 and Trier was one of the most efficient scorers in the country. If we had a distributor that could put up a fight at the point of attack and a versatile wing defender we walk to the final four in our bracket.

Of course we land the freshman phenom and mercurial two guard but forget to pick up the dime a dozen complementary utility pieces

But don't try to say we're delusional about our talent level that's not what sent us home and embarrassed us

Trier, Rawle, Dus, PJc (obviously) are all not NBA talent. Watch. Neither Trier or Rawle will ever make it in the league...I doubt trier gets drafted and Rawle maybe...but he won't do shit. They're G league or Europe players. Ayton is the obvious huge NBA talent...but when u surround him by unathletic, uninspired guards there's only so much he can do. IDGAF about triers numbers, if you watched him like we all did, we all know he's not going to ever be an NBA player. Sorry, he's just not. And Trier is a good Wildcat and I wish him the best, but he's not an NBA player. People should stop saying that b/c of his efficiency numbers.

Beefcurtainsandwich · Post by **Beefcurtainsandwich** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:06 am

WildHolcs wrote:
SteveKerrsStroke wrote:Ayton was a consensus number 1 and Trier was one of the most efficient scorers in the country. If we had a distributor that could put up a fight at the point of attack and a versatile wing defender we walk to the final four in our bracket.

Of course we land the freshman phenom and mercurial two guard but forget to pick up the dime a dozen complementary utility pieces

But don't try to say we're delusional about our talent level that's not what sent us home and embarrassed us
Trier, Rawle, Dus, PJc (obviously) are all not NBA talent. Watch. Neither Trier or Rawle will ever make it in the league...I doubt trier gets drafted and Rawle maybe...but he won't do shit. They're G league or Europe players. Ayton is the obvious huge NBA talent...but when u surround him by unathletic, uninspired guards there's only so much he can do. IDGAF about triers numbers, if you watched him like we all did, we all know he's not going to ever be an NBA player. Sorry, he's just not. And Trier is a good Wildcat and I wish him the best, but he's not an NBA player. People should stop saying that b/c of his efficiency numbers.

This. My god, this x1,000

enfuego · Post by **enfuego** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:47 am

If you all don't want Randolph, we'll take him.

Postmaster · Post by **Postmaster** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:09 pm

The FBI has told the ncaa to back off until fbi is done.
My guess, based on trial dates is that won't be until 2 more seasons are in the books.

I have to believe that Miller told the admin everything that he has done. And the admin felt that AZ is in the clear regarding miller.
So we have an assistant that took a kickback to steer players to ASM.
ASM may have given some money to Alkins and or Lauri. Pam didn't sign with them.
RA probably won't go with them now either.

I just don't see another shoe dropping based on Robbins letting Miller finish the year.

jajoyce · Post by **jajoyce** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 4:27 pm

Postmaster wrote:The FBI has told the ncaa to back off until fbi is done.
My guess, based on trial dates is that won't be until 2 more seasons are in the books.

I have to believe that Miller told the admin everything that he has done. And the admin felt that AZ is in the clear regarding miller.
So we have an assistant that took a kickback to steer players to ASM.
ASM may have given some money to Alkins and or Lauri. Pam didn't sign with them.
RA probably won't go with them now either.

I just don't see another shoe dropping based on Robbins letting Miller finish the year.

Why would CSM tell them if he was breaking the rules? He is screwed if he does (and fired with cause) and won’t be able get another job.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sat Mar 17, 2018 6:45 pm

jajoyce wrote:
Postmaster wrote:The FBI has told the ncaa to back off until fbi is done.
My guess, based on trial dates is that won't be until 2 more seasons are in the books.

I have to believe that Miller told the admin everything that he has done. And the admin felt that AZ is in the clear regarding miller.
So we have an assistant that took a kickback to steer players to ASM.
ASM may have given some money to Alkins and or Lauri. Pam didn't sign with them.
RA probably won't go with them now either.

I just don't see another shoe dropping based on Robbins letting Miller finish the year.
Why would CSM tell them if he was breaking the rules? He is screwed if he does (and fired with cause) and won’t be able get another job.

This is just more supposition. Miller can't prove his innocence. And he shouldn't have to.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:21 pm

azgreg wrote:
NYCat wrote:Things are looking rough

1. Chase Jeter
2. Ira Lee
3. Emmanuel Akot
4. Brandon Randolph
5. Alex Barcello
6. Dylan Smith
7. _____
8. _____
9. _____
10. ____
11. ____
12. ____
13. ____

But at least we can't play a slow twin towers lineup. I'm sort of looking forward to the [1 Ball Handler - 3 wings - 1 Post] lineups even though they won't be very good and have no depth.
Looks like a lineup you'd find on a pretty good mid major team...

Few mid-major teams have a couple of 5 stars and a couple of solid 4 stars in their line-ups. If all of those guys return, and it appears that they will, next year's team with the addition of a couple of spring commitments will be competitive (those kids will be a year older with a year of college basketball under their belts). They won't win the conference, but it is not as if the Pac 12 is going to be loaded with talent next year. UCLA will be the outright favorite with Oregon likely slotted for number two, but after that, Arizona is right there -- which is not totally depressing considering the events of this past season and loss of a recruiting class.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:57 pm

midnightx wrote:
azgreg wrote:
NYCat wrote:Things are looking rough

1. Chase Jeter
2. Ira Lee
3. Emmanuel Akot
4. Brandon Randolph
5. Alex Barcello
6. Dylan Smith
7. _____
8. _____
9. _____
10. ____
11. ____
12. ____
13. ____

But at least we can't play a slow twin towers lineup. I'm sort of looking forward to the [1 Ball Handler - 3 wings - 1 Post] lineups even though they won't be very good and have no depth.
Looks like a lineup you'd find on a pretty good mid major team...
Few mid-major teams have a couple of 5 stars and a couple of solid 4 stars in their line-ups. If all of those guys return, and it appears that they will, next year's team with the addition of a couple of spring commitments will be competitive (those kids will be a year older with a year of college basketball under their belts). They won't win the conference, but it is not as if the Pac 12 is going to be loaded with talent next year. UCLA will be the outright favorite with Oregon likely slotted for number two, but after that, Arizona is right there -- which is not totally depressing considering the events of this past season and loss of a recruiting class.

The season may be over, but recruiting for next isn't. Still have some cards on the table. Miller could still pull some talent. And it wouldn't surprise me one bit. I don't know how attractive Arizona is going to be for a grad transfer. It's not like we're a definite tournament team needing one more piece to the puzzle.

I'm more interested in the actual recruiting pitch Miller is using to guys like Brandon Williams and others. I'm sure the parents of recruits want some answers about the FBI & pending NCAA investigation. Miller certainly isn't using the same response to parents as he uses with the media. I'm sure he's giving a fairly detailed explanation of the situation.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:03 pm

jajoyce wrote:
Postmaster wrote:The FBI has told the ncaa to back off until fbi is done.
My guess, based on trial dates is that won't be until 2 more seasons are in the books.

I have to believe that Miller told the admin everything that he has done. And the admin felt that AZ is in the clear regarding miller.
So we have an assistant that took a kickback to steer players to ASM.
ASM may have given some money to Alkins and or Lauri. Pam didn't sign with them.
RA probably won't go with them now either.

I just don't see another shoe dropping based on Robbins letting Miller finish the year.
Why would CSM tell them if he was breaking the rules? He is screwed if he does (and fired with cause) and won’t be able get another job.

At this point, if Miller is knowingly lying to officials about breaking the rules, he exposes himself to a lawsuit from the University. So he wouldn't be just losing his job, he could be on the hook for the millions he's already made. It's in Miller's best financial interest to be truthful. If you think he's still lying -- that would be crazy on his part. If he knows the FBI or NCAA has the goods on him, then he would've resigned. The fact that he's holding firm is more of an indication that he feels he's innocent and the only thing that will hurt the program is lack of control over Book Richardson.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:32 pm

midnightx wrote: They won't win the conference, but it is not as if the Pac 12 is going to be loaded with talent next year. UCLA will be the outright favorite with Oregon likely slotted for number two, but after that, Arizona is right there -- which is not totally depressing considering the events of this past season and loss of a recruiting class.

Oregon will be better than UCLA, especially if they land Brandon Williams. Their incoming class is as good as UCLA’s, arguably better and Altman >>>> Alford.

But yeah, those two look like 1-2 at the moment. I think UW and Stanford will be competitive.

OSUCat · Post by **OSUCat** » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:14 pm

If defense does not improve next year, Arizona will be a middle pac-12 team at Best. The offense won’t be nearly as efficient as this year. You can say we have x number of 4 stars and x number of 5 stars, but it won’t suddenly make Arizona a contender. Sean Millers System is not friendly to freshman, and unless any freshman is stout in defense then they will play minor minutes. We shall see if Miller keeps recruiting the best players available or the best players that is available and fits his system.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:56 am

OSUCat wrote:Sean Millers System is not friendly to freshman, and unless any freshman is stout in defense then they will play minor minutes. We shall see if Miller keeps recruiting the best players available or the best players that is available and fits his system.

Actually, there’ve been quite a few freshmen who did well in Miller’s system, but yes, it’s normally been on the strength of their D. Is that really a problem, though? If Barcello can’t stay in front of his man, how can Miller keep him in the game, especially when the threes aren’t falling?

I’m prepared for a down season or two. I just want to see Sean bring guys in who want to win at AZ, and not only be eying the pros. We need as many TJs and KPs and KAs as McDAAs.

RaisingArizona · Post by **RaisingArizona** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:09 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
midnightx wrote: They won't win the conference, but it is not as if the Pac 12 is going to be loaded with talent next year. UCLA will be the outright favorite with Oregon likely slotted for number two, but after that, Arizona is right there -- which is not totally depressing considering the events of this past season and loss of a recruiting class.
Oregon will be better than UCLA, especially if they land Brandon Williams. Their incoming class is as good as UCLA’s, arguably better and Altman >>>> Alford.

But yeah, those two look like 1-2 at the moment. I think UW and Stanford will be competitive.

Stanford should be an NCAA tournament team if Travis comes back. If Arizona can add two-three more competent players I think there as good of a pick for fourth as any other PAC-2 school.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:34 am

RaisingArizona wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
midnightx wrote: They won't win the conference, but it is not as if the Pac 12 is going to be loaded with talent next year. UCLA will be the outright favorite with Oregon likely slotted for number two, but after that, Arizona is right there -- which is not totally depressing considering the events of this past season and loss of a recruiting class.
Oregon will be better than UCLA, especially if they land Brandon Williams. Their incoming class is as good as UCLA’s, arguably better and Altman >>>> Alford.

But yeah, those two look like 1-2 at the moment. I think UW and Stanford will be competitive.

Stanford should be an NCAA tournament team if Travis comes back. If Arizona can add two-three more competent players I think there as good of a pick for fourth as any other PAC-2 school.

I agree. The Pac’s second tier is totally up for grabs next season, and it’s easily imaginable that teams like AZ, Stanford, UW, and maybe Utah could steal a game or two from the league’s best.

It’s fun being the hunter once in a while, and take a break from being the hunted.

I really hope Sean can land some quality grad transfers. We need guys who can play immediately.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:35 am

1. Oregon

2-5. UCLA, Colorado, Stanford, Washington
6-10: Arizona, asu, USC, Utah etc

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:51 am

Doesn't matter if we're the preseason favorite or not. We're going to get everyone's best shot with Arizona on your Jersey.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:18 am

NYCat wrote:1. Oregon

2-5. UCLA, Colorado, Stanford, Washington
6-10: Arizona, asu, USC, Utah etc

Obviously depends on the grad transfers but Oregon and Stanford are the only teams I would be worried about for now

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:25 am

TheCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
TheCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:People forgetting we are largely in this predicament because Miller ignored continued advice to dump Book before it bit him in the ass? Another mistake by Miller.

We are Arizona, we shouldnt have the long leash that most other schools have. At minimum, like Choo said, the relationship is toxic. Or soured. Miller lost most of Tucson tonight. That's the reality. Even the most casual fan could see how special Ayton was and how awful it is to get murdered in the first round with him on the floor.
So you are speaking for the majority of Tucson? You don't speak for many that I know. Remember when Miller first got here? Who did we have? That's right...no one. Sol Hill came back because he said Az was his dream school. Brandon Williams has said Az was his dream school. There will be others and don't forget the international pipeline that those kids remember Sean as the US coach. If Miller's bigest fault is blind loyalty ...sign me up.
Step it up if youre gonna swing. Christ.
Don't even know what that means. I have watch Ariz basketball and have seen guys like RJ play as a freshman and said what the hell was Lute thinking. Randolph in Spain was our leading scorer till he got injured. Small sample size but I think he will be good if he stays.You have no perspective and you think for some reason you speak for all of Tucson and you call it reality. What a joke.

The only joke here is you pulling out the "I saw RJ play as a freshman" card in an online dick measuring contest on THIS forum. Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.

You think Randolph, a top 40 recruit who got offers from us, Kentucky, UNC, Louisville, Kansas, Villanova, and many others will be good if he stays? Way to go out on a limb there.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:45 am

Casual Arizona fan is a dumb fan.

I’ve texted a few people I met in Oregon and their takes on what to do next for the program and Miller from some of them is interesting to say this least.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:06 am

Miller is our best option right now unless the FBI investigation turns up something along the lines of the Schlabach report.

The fact that the Yahoo report had nothing on Ariz is encouraging. It tells me that Book was ensnared by Dawkins and was stupid to get involved.

Unless something significant comes out, Miller can get us back on track. And I think he will. And when he does, it will be even more satisfying.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:28 am

rgdeuce wrote: Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.

To me, this is an indictment of our online fanbase and pain, not anything we should actually consider to act on.

1993 was really, really bad too. But we only had Hansen to spread the fires.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:30 am

zonagrad wrote:Miller is our best option right now unless the FBI investigation turns up something along the lines of the Schlabach report.

The fact that the Yahoo report had nothing on Ariz is encouraging. It tells me that Book was ensnared by Dawkins and was stupid to get involved.

Unless something significant comes out, Miller can get us back on track. And I think he will. And when he does, it will be even more satisfying.

Yep, until the uncertainty is cleared up no one better or at Miller's level will come so allow Miller to fix this mess which he is particially responsible for. If he can get back on track, keep him, if not then you may need to dump him for a lesser coach, but that is down the line a bit, not this off season.

RiseAndFire · Post by **RiseAndFire** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:26 pm

Don't worry, its fine

see, everything will be all cleared up as soon as Books' trial ends in June 2019 , and then after the 2-yr long NCAA probe, so 2021 when the postseason ban is announced, then 2 years of postseason ban so make that 2023, plus a year to get a new class of recruits in so 2024.

2024-2025 Arizona Basketball - Smell the Vindication!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:43 pm

EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote: Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.
To me, this is an indictment of our online fanbase and pain, not anything we should actually consider to act on.

1993 was really, really bad too. But we only had Hansen to spread the fires.

The fanbase is always too reactionary. It is the height of idiocy to fire someone for a NCAA tourney loss.

If we were in on Miller before the NCAA loss, that doesn't change much. You can be mad about a loss without being reactionary and saying dumb stuff like he needs to be fired. Just about every CBB team ends the season in some degree of disappointment.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:53 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote: Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.
To me, this is an indictment of our online fanbase and pain, not anything we should actually consider to act on.

1993 was really, really bad too. But we only had Hansen to spread the fires.
The fanbase is always too reactionary. It is the height of idiocy to fire someone for a NCAA tourney loss.

If we were in on Miller before the NCAA loss, that doesn't change much. You can be mad about a loss without being reactionary and saying dumb stuff like he needs to be fired. Just about every CBB team ends the season in some degree of disappointment.

I'm with you guys, but my one and only concern is due to the unusual circumstances at hand can we fully expect a complete recovery at Arizona under Sean Miller's watch? If we didn't have the full storm cloud that is the FBI hanging over our head and a total uncertainty of what is to come via punishment I'd agree with anyone calling for Arizona to move on from Miller an overreacting mental midget. With that said can a coach with a tarnished reputation (whether deserving or not) recover from this mess and should Arizona accept the risk that having a man with this current reputation brings?

Quite frankly if Miller is able to recover it'll be unprecedented. I'm certainly not saying he can't do it, but man that's one uphill battle he will have on the recruiting trail. The sell against Arizona under Sean Miller has never been stronger.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:57 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote: Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.
To me, this is an indictment of our online fanbase and pain, not anything we should actually consider to act on.

1993 was really, really bad too. But we only had Hansen to spread the fires.
The fanbase is always too reactionary. It is the height of idiocy to fire someone for a NCAA tourney loss.

If we were in on Miller before the NCAA loss, that doesn't change much. You can be mad about a loss without being reactionary and saying dumb stuff like he needs to be fired. Just about every CBB team ends the season in some degree of disappointment.
I'm with you guys, but my one and only concern is due to the unusual circumstances at hand can we fully expect a complete recovery at Arizona under Sean Miller's watch? If we didn't have the full storm cloud that is the FBI hanging over our head and a total uncertainty of what is to come via punishment I'd agree with anyone calling for Arizona to move on from Miller an overreacting mental midget. With that said can a coach with a tarnished reputation (whether deserving or not) recover from this mess and should Arizona accept the risk that having a man with this current reputation brings?

Quite frankly if Miller is able to recover it'll be unprecedented. I'm certainly not saying he can do it, but man that's one uphill battle he will have on the recruiting trail. The sell against Arizona under Sean Miller has never been stronger.

I think we have a unique opportunity to test drive that if he doesn't pull the ripcord. Because this isn't the time to hire anyone.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:58 pm

EVCat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote: Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.
To me, this is an indictment of our online fanbase and pain, not anything we should actually consider to act on.

1993 was really, really bad too. But we only had Hansen to spread the fires.
The fanbase is always too reactionary. It is the height of idiocy to fire someone for a NCAA tourney loss.

If we were in on Miller before the NCAA loss, that doesn't change much. You can be mad about a loss without being reactionary and saying dumb stuff like he needs to be fired. Just about every CBB team ends the season in some degree of disappointment.
I'm with you guys, but my one and only concern is due to the unusual circumstances at hand can we fully expect a complete recovery at Arizona under Sean Miller's watch? If we didn't have the full storm cloud that is the FBI hanging over our head and a total uncertainty of what is to come via punishment I'd agree with anyone calling for Arizona to move on from Miller an overreacting mental midget. With that said can a coach with a tarnished reputation (whether deserving or not) recover from this mess and should Arizona accept the risk that having a man with this current reputation brings?

Quite frankly if Miller is able to recover it'll be unprecedented. I'm certainly not saying he can do it, but man that's one uphill battle he will have on the recruiting trail. The sell against Arizona under Sean Miller has never been stronger.
I think we have a unique opportunity to test drive that if he doesn't pull the ripcord. Because this isn't the time to hire anyone.

We definitely agree there.

azgreg · Post by **azgreg** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:28 pm

RiseAndFire wrote:Don't worry, its fine

see, everything will be all cleared up as soon as Books' trial ends in June 2019 , and then after the 2-yr long NCAA probe, so 2021 when the postseason ban is announced, then 2 years of postseason ban so make that 2023, plus a year to get a new class of recruits in so 2024.

2024-2025 Arizona Basketball - Smell the Vindication!

I'll take "Who's the biggest douchebag on the forum?" for $300 Alex.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:36 pm

azgreg wrote:
RiseAndFire wrote:Don't worry, its fine

see, everything will be all cleared up as soon as Books' trial ends in June 2019 , and then after the 2-yr long NCAA probe, so 2021 when the postseason ban is announced, then 2 years of postseason ban so make that 2023, plus a year to get a new class of recruits in so 2024.

2024-2025 Arizona Basketball - Smell the Vindication!
I'll take "Who's the biggest douchebag on the forum?" for $300 Alex.

$300? Are you kidding? That was such an easy question. $100 in the opening round.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:47 pm

Not sure why he wasn't banned months ago. Does he really add anything to this board besides troll posts?

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:56 pm

RiseAndFire wrote:Don't worry, its fine

see, everything will be all cleared up as soon as Books' trial ends in June 2019 , and then after the 2-yr long NCAA probe, so 2021 when the postseason ban is announced, then 2 years of postseason ban so make that 2023, plus a year to get a new class of recruits in so 2024.

2024-2025 Arizona Basketball - Smell the Vindication!

Well then, now that you've written off the program until 2024, does this mean you'll do us all a favor and disappear for six years? I mean, there's really no point in you hanging around.

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:30 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote: Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.
To me, this is an indictment of our online fanbase and pain, not anything we should actually consider to act on.

1993 was really, really bad too. But we only had Hansen to spread the fires.
The fanbase is always too reactionary. It is the height of idiocy to fire someone for a NCAA tourney loss.

If we were in on Miller before the NCAA loss, that doesn't change much. You can be mad about a loss without being reactionary and saying dumb stuff like he needs to be fired. Just about every CBB team ends the season in some degree of disappointment.
I'm with you guys, but my one and only concern is due to the unusual circumstances at hand can we fully expect a complete recovery at Arizona under Sean Miller's watch? If we didn't have the full storm cloud that is the FBI hanging over our head and a total uncertainty of what is to come via punishment I'd agree with anyone calling for Arizona to move on from Miller an overreacting mental midget. With that said can a coach with a tarnished reputation (whether deserving or not) recover from this mess and should Arizona accept the risk that having a man with this current reputation brings?

Quite frankly if Miller is able to recover it'll be unprecedented. I'm certainly not saying he can't do it, but man that's one uphill battle he will have on the recruiting trail. The sell against Arizona under Sean Miller has never been stronger.

I guess we will know pretty soon. Let's see who he can pull to salvage this class. I'm not betting against Miller.

Dosia · Post by **Dosia** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:33 pm

zonagrad wrote:
RiseAndFire wrote:Don't worry, its fine

see, everything will be all cleared up as soon as Books' trial ends in June 2019 , and then after the 2-yr long NCAA probe, so 2021 when the postseason ban is announced, then 2 years of postseason ban so make that 2023, plus a year to get a new class of recruits in so 2024.

2024-2025 Arizona Basketball - Smell the Vindication!
Well then, now that you've written off the program until 2024, does this mean you'll do us all a favor and disappear for six years? I mean, there's really no point in you hanging around.

Sounds like a reverse UDUG to me. Can two idiots cancel each other out?

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:42 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
EVCat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote: Recall the Stanford game when Miller returned to the sidelines: do you remember how probably 80-90+ percent of Tucson was willing to jump in front of a speeding car for Miller at that point in time? How many of those 80-90 percent would do the same now, after that Buffalo loss? Not talking people who want Miller fired, I'm talking apathy. It's not hard to get a pulse around the office, on social media, this forum, and from conversations with friends. Pretty easy to get a statistically significant sample size.
To me, this is an indictment of our online fanbase and pain, not anything we should actually consider to act on.

1993 was really, really bad too. But we only had Hansen to spread the fires.
The fanbase is always too reactionary. It is the height of idiocy to fire someone for a NCAA tourney loss.

If we were in on Miller before the NCAA loss, that doesn't change much. You can be mad about a loss without being reactionary and saying dumb stuff like he needs to be fired. Just about every CBB team ends the season in some degree of disappointment.
I'm with you guys, but my one and only concern is due to the unusual circumstances at hand can we fully expect a complete recovery at Arizona under Sean Miller's watch? If we didn't have the full storm cloud that is the FBI hanging over our head and a total uncertainty of what is to come via punishment I'd agree with anyone calling for Arizona to move on from Miller an overreacting mental midget. With that said can a coach with a tarnished reputation (whether deserving or not) recover from this mess and should Arizona accept the risk that having a man with this current reputation brings?

Quite frankly if Miller is able to recover it'll be unprecedented. I'm certainly not saying he can't do it, but man that's one uphill battle he will have on the recruiting trail. The sell against Arizona under Sean Miller has never been stronger.

That is a good point. The Arizona brand is probably not damaged, but Miller's reputation may be.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:55 pm

I like Sean Miller and I hate to say it but Miller looks like a broken man, a tired man. His demeanor looks like the last thing he wants to do is coach basketball at Arizona or maybe even basketball anywhere.

And if he feels that way now, how is two more years of wading through the FBI and NCAA BS going to make him feel. Additionally when the team is playing around a 500% clip in an already degraded conference with questionable future recruiting classes as the norm, it won't take long for the tide to turn again.

This fanbase is in for a shock as uncertainty stays front and center as the programs trajectory and recruiting classes revert to the mean and the school and Miller's desire for a fresh start become more openly apparent and acknowledged.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:52 pm

Gladiator Cat wrote:I like Sean Miller and I hate to say it but Miller looks like a broken man, a tired man. His demeanor looks like the last thing he wants to do is coach basketball at Arizona or maybe even basketball anywhere.

And if he feels that way now, how is two more years of wading through the FBI and NCAA BS going to make him feel. Additionally when the team is playing around a 500% clip in an already degraded conference with questionable future recruiting classes as the norm, it won't take long for the tide to turn again.

This fanbase is in for a shock as uncertainty stays front and center as the programs trajectory and recruiting classes revert to the mean and the school and Miller's desire for a fresh start become more openly apparent and acknowledged.

Miller is less than a month removed from the Star running an article saying he should never coach Arizona again and ESPN gameday telling a national audience his career was dead. I'm sure he is beat to shit. This season not only set a new standard for Arizona, this was the most drama filled season ever in CBB except maybe Baylor when they had the murder.

A first step is accepting that our program took a major hit that will last this year. We have to dig out from a hole, Miller or anyone.

Steps are like this:

1. Salvage a recruiting class.
2. Push for finality in the investigation, hopefully by the fall recruiting cycle.
3. Determine Miller's long term future.
4. Begin to push to return to normal.

It will take time. That time aspect just can't be shortcutted at this point. People raise a new coach because of the idea someone new comes in on a white horse and wipes all the bad away. It just does not go like that.

It's like following 2011's Elite Eight with not making the tourney in 2012. It took time to dig out of the hole left by Lute's exit. We got the false hope it was all saved and saw how it was more unstable than we hoped for.

Gladiator Cat · Post by **Gladiator Cat** » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:35 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Gladiator Cat wrote:I like Sean Miller and I hate to say it but Miller looks like a broken man, a tired man. His demeanor looks like the last thing he wants to do is coach basketball at Arizona or maybe even basketball anywhere.

And if he feels that way now, how is two more years of wading through the FBI and NCAA BS going to make him feel. Additionally when the team is playing around a 500% clip in an already degraded conference with questionable future recruiting classes as the norm, it won't take long for the tide to turn again.

This fanbase is in for a shock as uncertainty stays front and center as the programs trajectory and recruiting classes revert to the mean and the school and Miller's desire for a fresh start become more openly apparent and acknowledged.
Miller is less than a month removed from the Star running an article saying he should never coach Arizona again and ESPN gameday telling a national audience his career was dead. I'm sure he is beat to shit. This season not only set a new standard for Arizona, this was the most drama filled season ever in CBB except maybe Baylor when they had the murder.

A first step is accepting that our program took a major hit that will last this year. We have to dig out from a hole, Miller or anyone.

Steps are like this:

1. Salvage a recruiting class.
2. Push for finality in the investigation, hopefully by the fall recruiting cycle.
3. Determine Miller's long term future.
4. Begin to push to return to normal.

It will take time. That time aspect just can't be shortcutted at this point. People raise a new coach because of the idea someone new comes in on a white horse and wipes all the bad away. It just does not go like that.

It's like following 2011's Elite Eight with not making the tourney in 2012. It took time to dig out of the hole left by Lute's exit. We got the false hope it was all saved and saw how it was more unstable than we hoped for.

Yeah Spiff, that's about as good a road map as anyone can expect. Time is the X-Factor. Does Miller have enough in him to withstand two years of BS in a conference that is already a pain in his ass.

We shall see.

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