let's talk '18

[CatHoops]

ChooChoo...any talk at all about Williams or, to a crazier extent, Brown?

It seems the chatter has started to subside, but that might just be because there is nothing to talk about. Again, I don't begrudge BW doing this...he was with us even with a 5* Quinnerly, and was with us early, and all of this of course caused him to consider looking, and that looking will be 4 months, maybe, when most recruits are much longer for the game. Timing sucks, but I still think we have the most attractive situation for him. We can win with one or two pieces, we have no established PG in front of him for 1 (zags) or 2 (ducks) years...but how much has his relationship with Sean been hurt, if at all, and was he close to Book at all?

Brown? That seems like a longshot, but so did fielding a team of more than 7 this year.

I have to think that maybe a humble Sean Miller, or at least a Sean Miller who already could close who can now sell a "humble" narrative...is a more potent Sean Miller?

The read I'm getting on Williams is that Arizona sold him and his family so damn well on playing alongside another PG that he pretty much prefers it at this point. He will have that situation at Oregon, Gonzaga, and from what it looks like Arizona as well. I'm not sure any school has a perceived edge at this point regardless whatever Oregon insiders believe. We'll know soon enough thankfully.

On Brown, Arizona has done very well here, but I don't know if it's enough. It looks like Stanford is out at the moment and it's probably a 3 school race. Arizona has to get him on campus with that last official visit and if it does it probably has a great shot. This will go into May before it's done.

I hope Miller can pull it off. I'll wait to see if Brown visits before I get too excited. Would be magic if he lands b-will and Brown

[YoDeFoe]

An update in the Brandon Williams saga...

Gonzaga starting PG Josh Perkins just had shoulder surgery last week... which means that for the next six months there's a wide open hole at starting PG for the Zags. Official practice begins around September 25, 2018 for the coming season... which is about five months from now.

Perkins should be back at full strength by the time the season starts, but the risk that he might not return to 100% and the opportunity for Williams to run the team over the summer and in early practices without Perkins breathing down his neck might make Gonzaga an even more appealing option than before.

I'd previously stated that I liked Gonzaga as an option for Williams given that he'd play off ball in his first season and would move to PG as a sophomore following the graduation of Perkins. Now there is an opportunity for Williams to step in as the day one starting PG for the Zags.

Just another wrinkle in a complicated decision.

This seems more like wishful thinking. Even if there is some time early, Perkins is a 3 year starter and will be taking the offense back from a freshman, even BW. BW is a very good freshman, but he is not a superstar One and Done lock who is going to unseat the best player with 3 years experience. And off ball speculation is the whole point of why BW might re-commit here...he wants to be the point. Like there were much better suitors for Khalil Tate in football, but we got him because...QB. BW wants...PG. He can play SG a lot of places.

He may go to Gonzaga. But I really think it is a battle between the lure of the super-class and Oregon and knowing he might sit vs the issues at Arizona but likely playing time in bunches/starter minutes and, in the end, little actual sanction that affects him. This reads like a writer trying to talk him into coming to Gonzaga, not an actual prognostication. The "opportunity to step in from day 1 at PG" is fools gold, because it might be over on day 20 or whenever Perkins comes back. "Step in from Day 1" generally infers finishing...

I'm making the pitch for Gonzaga, or for why Williams might choose Gonzaga. Maybe that's to get ahead of any eventual heartbreak in this recruitment. But it's certainly not a prognostication.

I don't do recruiting forecasts - rightfully you've asked Choo to step in for that task.

And FWIW - I think it will take wishful thinking for Williams to see great opportunity at any of the three schools. He has to hope that Arizona escapes meaningful sanctions and that unproven players elevate their game. He has to hope to beat out a collection of similarly ranked guards for both of his two years at Oregon, and that Pritchard shares the lead guard duties. And he has to hope that Gonzaga puts the ball in his hands this season despite owning an exceptional senior PG.

[RichardCranium]

Sorry to pick at a scab, but WTF is "SJW"?

[ASUHATER!]

Sorry to pick at a scab, but WTF is "SJW"?

"Social Justice Warrior"

For some reason right wing nut jobs think it is some sort of derogatory term they can use to sneer at liberals and progressives for caring about other people. It is part of the alpha/beta/cuck language group. I personally don't see how being called a warrior for social justice is a bad thing at all.

[SunnyAZ]

Sorry to pick at a scab, but WTF is "SJW"?

"Social Justice Warrior"

For some reason right wing nut jobs think it is some sort of derogatory term they can use to sneer at liberals and progressives for caring about other people. It is part of the alpha/beta/cuck language group. I personally don't see how being called a warrior for social justice is a bad thing at all.

well it's pretty obvious that they use it as a way to say that certain people are making a cause/conflict out of something that doesn't deserve it.

[ASUHATER!]

Sorry to pick at a scab, but WTF is "SJW"?

"Social Justice Warrior"

For some reason right wing nut jobs think it is some sort of derogatory term they can use to sneer at liberals and progressives for caring about other people. It is part of the alpha/beta/cuck language group. I personally don't see how being called a warrior for social justice is a bad thing at all.

well it's pretty obvious that they use it as a way to say that certain people are making a cause/conflict out of something that doesn't deserve it.

Yeah causes like equal rights for women and LGBT people and minorities and advocating for less racism and similar things. They can't stand things like that.

[Alieberman]

Fellas.... let's get this discussion back on topic please.

When is BW announcing that he will become a Wildcat?

[dovecanyoncat]

Fellas.... let's get this discussion back on topic please.

When is BW announcing that he will become a Wildcat?

You mean we mustn't conjugate nutjob nomenclature in respect of possible meanings for BW?

Killjoy.

[SunnyAZ]

Sorry to pick at a scab, but WTF is "SJW"?

"Social Justice Warrior"

For some reason right wing nut jobs think it is some sort of derogatory term they can use to sneer at liberals and progressives for caring about other people. It is part of the alpha/beta/cuck language group. I personally don't see how being called a warrior for social justice is a bad thing at all.

well it's pretty obvious that they use it as a way to say that certain people are making a cause/conflict out of something that doesn't deserve it.

Yeah causes like equal rights for women and LGBT people and minorities and advocating for less racism and similar things. They can't stand things like that.

Lol you are either dealing with trolls or silly people. I would advise not concerning yourself with them.

I'm talking about people that get mad at that teacher for going to school on the 'white people day of absence so we can appreciate people of color' day. And the Google guy who wrote that essay saying there are reasons a disproportionate number of women and men are involved in tech, and even included a list of ways to reach women. Stuff like that.

[SunnyAZ]

Fellas.... let's get this discussion back on topic please.

When is BW announcing that he will become a Wildcat?

30th

Book it.

[YoDeFoe]

Repping

[PHXCATS]

Fellas.... let's get this discussion back on topic please.

When is BW announcing that he will become a Wildcat?

Thank you

[ChooChooCat]

Justin Coleman is on campus today btw.

[PHXCATS]

Fellas.... let's get this discussion back on topic please.

When is BW announcing that he will become a Wildcat?

30th

Book it.

Wish you didnt say book

[YoDeFoe]

Justin Coleman is on campus today btw.

Coleman is visiting Arizona and also considering Saint Louis, UAB, Texas Southern, Northern Kentucky and SMU. One of those things is not like the others.

[Beachcat97]

Justin Coleman is on campus today btw.

Coleman is visiting Arizona and also considering Saint Louis, UAB, Texas Southern, Northern Kentucky and SMU. One of those things is not like the others.

How favorably does JC compare to other transfer PGs we've had?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Justin Coleman is on campus today btw.

Coleman is visiting Arizona and also considering Saint Louis, UAB, Texas Southern, Northern Kentucky and SMU. One of those things is not like the others.

How favorably does JC compare to other transfer PGs we've had?

Not very. Hopefully serviceable.

[Merkin]

Spiff, being that the last 2 transfers TJ McConnell and Kadeem Allen are in the NBA, would you say that Coleman is Arizona good?

[YoDeFoe]

and Coleman is very much a poor man's PJC.

Based on what exactly?

Basically the exact same shooting splits and scoring style, with PJC being a 5 percentage point better three point shooter and Coleman being a 5 percentage point better finisher at the rim and at the line.

Same size, both 5'10" 170lbs.

Both posted about .90 points per possession scoring and 1.4ppp scoring + assists, both with ~2.4 A:TO. Similar offensive rating (Coleman v PJC). Coleman was a higher usage offensive player, for what its worth.

But oh boy - defensive rating.

PJC held opponents to a decent 0.869ppp, good for about 50th percentile. Coleman gave up 1.051ppp - which is in the bottom 10% of players in division 1 basketball. In man to man defensive sets, Coleman ranked in the bottom 5%.

All of the above is with PJC playing for Arizona with a top 50 strength of schedule and Coleman playing for Samford - just outside the top 200 in SOS.

Samford was one of the worst defensive teams in the country last year (346th of 351) and defense is a team effort. But when Coleman was isolated, he ranked in the bottom 4%. When Coleman was tasked with defending catch and shoot jumpers, he ranked in the bottom 15%. Those are individual defensive plays.

So he's PJC on offense and probably a shadow of PJC on defense. Is that the solution we're looking for?

My previous thoughts on Coleman. I was probably too harsh calling him a poor man's PJC. He's probably just PJC.

[YoDeFoe]

So to sum it up Coleman is better in the P&R, Isolation, and Hand off. They both suck in transition i.e. they're both short, and Parker was a better spot up shooter (the only thing he ever did good on offense). As far as defense goes Samford obviously gave zero shits about playing any, so I don't take it too seriously. Regardless our defense is in the hands of our wings and that goes for even if we land Williams. If the wings can't play D effectively then we're screwed already, so I couldn't care less about his defense at a program who had zero interest in playing any. The same size argument is crap, Parker was never 5'10. Hell the way Arizona lists heights I bet we list Coleman at 6'0 if he were to come here.

Either way we need him or Williams. You don't go into next season with Alex Barcello who played sparingly being your sole option at the 1. I'm in agreement with you overall on Johnson, but we need somebody to handle the rock.

Choo's previous thoughts on Coleman.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Spiff, being that the last 2 transfers TJ McConnell and Kadeem Allen are in the NBA, would you say that Coleman is Arizona good?

YDF and Choo have good takes, IMO. Comparing him to others:

Best case scenario: Mark Lyons.

Worst case scenario: PG version of Mark Tollefsen.

I think he winds up being a starter by default and we wind up wishing he was better than he actually is. Maybe he can be solid, hopefully it's enough for a tournament. The awful defensive stats concern me the most.

[CatHoops]

Coleman is ours

[Beachcat97]

Coleman is ours

Source?

[YoDeFoe]

I've come around to "this is fine" on Coleman. He's PJC.

* Given our current situation, would I take another year of PJC? Yep.
* Does taking Coleman hurt us in getting Williams? Nope.
* If Barcello or Akot is good enough will he earn the start? Yep.

It's fine. I'd honestly rather take the chance and possibly crash and burn with Barcello + Akot at point if we miss on Williams but I realize that's not our program.

[Beachcat97]

By this time next week, BW could be committed to AZ. And our prospects for '19 will rise considerably.

[YoDeFoe]

By this time next week, BW could be committed to AZ. And our prospects for '19 will rise considerably.

Source?

[TatetheGreat]

We'll need Coleman in case Barcello and Akot can't handle the ball and/or run the offense effectively. Right now BW is mostly a scorer. He averaged 2.9 assists to 2.7 turnovers this HS season.

[ChooChooCat]

We'll need Coleman in case Barcello and Akot can't handle the ball and/or run the offense effectively. Right now BW is mostly a scorer. He averaged 2.9 assists to 2.7 turnovers this HS season.

I wouldn't look too much into this past year's HS stats. His team didn't have anybody else that could really score, so he was pretty much demanded to be the team's offense. I will concede that he's probably more of a shoot first PG at this point.

Either way fwiw with or without BW I'd expect Arizona to take two point guards this class.

[FreeSpiritCat]

We'll need Coleman in case Barcello and Akot can't handle the ball and/or run the offense effectively. Right now BW is mostly a scorer. He averaged 2.9 assists to 2.7 turnovers this HS season.

I wouldn't look too much into this past year's HS stats. His team didn't have anybody else that could really score, so he was pretty much demanded to be the team's offense. I will concede that he's probably more of a shoot first PG at this point.

Either way fwiw with or without BW I'd expect Arizona to take two point guards this class.

Agree with this take. High scool stats are very misleading. The level of play is a huge jump from high school to college. The competition in AAU may help with plaing more talented individuals but still isn’t played at a DI college level. As an example, Barcello was a good high school player but is having problems adjusting to college. There may be stars in front of the recruits name, but ultimately, all bets are off until we can see how the freshman adjusts to the college level of play.

IMO, what is just as important as talent, is the ability and desire of the player to develop. What good is talent if it isn’t being used properly?

[goslingswagg]

We'll need Coleman in case Barcello and Akot can't handle the ball and/or run the offense effectively. Right now BW is mostly a scorer. He averaged 2.9 assists to 2.7 turnovers this HS season.

I wouldn't look too much into this past year's HS stats. His team didn't have anybody else that could really score, so he was pretty much demanded to be the team's offense. I will concede that he's probably more of a shoot first PG at this point.

Either way fwiw with or without BW I'd expect Arizona to take two point guards this class.

Interesting. If not Bwill, who could the 2nd PG be (assuming Coleman commits)? Looking international maybe? Grad transfer obviously a possibility but doesn't seem to be a ton of options that we're linked to.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We'll need Coleman in case Barcello and Akot can't handle the ball and/or run the offense effectively. Right now BW is mostly a scorer. He averaged 2.9 assists to 2.7 turnovers this HS season.

I wouldn't look too much into this past year's HS stats. His team didn't have anybody else that could really score, so he was pretty much demanded to be the team's offense. I will concede that he's probably more of a shoot first PG at this point.

Either way fwiw with or without BW I'd expect Arizona to take two point guards this class.

Who does #2 play for?

I assume Coleman is #1.

[ChooChooCat]

We'll need Coleman in case Barcello and Akot can't handle the ball and/or run the offense effectively. Right now BW is mostly a scorer. He averaged 2.9 assists to 2.7 turnovers this HS season.

I wouldn't look too much into this past year's HS stats. His team didn't have anybody else that could really score, so he was pretty much demanded to be the team's offense. I will concede that he's probably more of a shoot first PG at this point.

Either way fwiw with or without BW I'd expect Arizona to take two point guards this class.

Interesting. If not Bwill, who could the 2nd PG be (assuming Coleman commits)? Looking international maybe? Grad transfer obviously a possibility but doesn't seem to be a ton of options that we're linked to.

I can't name names and you will only hear of the guy if Williams goes elsewhere. Even if I told you his name you very very likely never would've heard of him and that's certainly not a shot at you my man. He's not a grad transfer though.

[goslingswagg]

We'll need Coleman in case Barcello and Akot can't handle the ball and/or run the offense effectively. Right now BW is mostly a scorer. He averaged 2.9 assists to 2.7 turnovers this HS season.

I wouldn't look too much into this past year's HS stats. His team didn't have anybody else that could really score, so he was pretty much demanded to be the team's offense. I will concede that he's probably more of a shoot first PG at this point.

Either way fwiw with or without BW I'd expect Arizona to take two point guards this class.

Interesting. If not Bwill, who could the 2nd PG be (assuming Coleman commits)? Looking international maybe? Grad transfer obviously a possibility but doesn't seem to be a ton of options that we're linked to.

I can't name names and you will only hear of the guy if Williams goes elsewhere. Even if I told you his name you very very likely never would've heard of him and that's certainly not a shot at you my man. He's not a grad transfer though.

Would think that means Juco or International?...interesting. Appreciate the insight Choo.

[YoDeFoe]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

[Irish27]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

Miller will most likely be at Williams home on Sunday after his Gonzaga visit.

[Beachcat97]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

Miller will most likely be at Williams home on Sunday after his Gonzaga visit.

The Witch about to put in work.

[azgreg]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

Miller will most likely be at Williams home on Sunday after his Gonzaga visit.

Miller should go on the Gonzaga visit with him and point out everything that's better at Arizona.

[3goggles]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

Miller will most likely be at Williams home on Sunday after his Gonzaga visit.

Miller should go on the Gonzaga visit with him and point out everything that's better at Arizona.

Yes please!!!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

Miller will most likely be at Williams home on Sunday after his Gonzaga visit.

The more chances Miller gets, the better I feel. Williams was with us before the outside shit hit the fan. I doubt it would have been like that unless his relationship with Miller was solid. Every visit is a chance to show him the path forwards from the weirdness.

[Merkin]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

Miller will most likely be at Williams home on Sunday after his Gonzaga visit.

Miller should go on the Gonzaga visit with him and point out everything that's better at Arizona.

75 in Spokane right now and 84 tomorrow.

Too bad it wasn't snowing.

[Beachcat97]

Williams is likely packing for Spokane tonight. Last official visit on Saturday... Hopefully we get an answer next week (that's me hoping, not me speculating).

Miller will most likely be at Williams home on Sunday after his Gonzaga visit.

Miller should go on the Gonzaga visit with him and point out everything that's better at Arizona.

75 in Spokane right now and 84 tomorrow.

Too bad it wasn't snowing.

Was Gonzaga even involved with BW before he de-committed? Or are they yet another program who could benefit from the AZ smear job?

[ChooChooCat]

Gonzaga was probably the most involved school not named Arizona in his original recruitment

[NYCat]

Lock that last visit up Sean

[ChooChooCat]

Nevada is the one that worries me here. Gotta get that last visit.

[3goggles]

Nevada is the one that worries me here. Gotta get that last visit.

FBI invest be damned we can’t lose a kid to Neveda!

[KaibabKat]

Really cheap all you can eat buffet breakfasts may be tough to compete with.

[3goggles]

Really cheap all you can eat buffet breakfasts may be tough to compete with.

Lol true!

[dcZONAfan]

Nevada is the one that worries me here. Gotta get that last visit.

FBI invest be damned we can’t lose a kid to Neveda!

I mean, they add him and that's a legit FF contender next year. No shame, in this specific instance, in losing this recruiting battle.

[zonagrad]

Nevada's Caleb Martin is testing the NBA waters. I think he stays in the draft. He's a top 20 pick. Certainly more draftable than Alkins or Trier who are long gone.

[ChooChooCat]

Nevada's Caleb Martin is testing the NBA waters. I think he stays in the draft. He's a top 20 pick. Certainly more draftable than Alkins or Trier who are long gone.

They play different positions. If Brown went to Nevada he'd be their center as they don't have anyone over 6'8 on their roster.