PHXCATS wrote:
I am taking the wait and see stance on Miller and next year's class. You are bragging about it but what has Miller done with these great classes? Win a down PAC12 half the time? You did go on and on about how the PAC12 was down and gave great insight into my claim of such in a few earlier posts. Zero final fours. If you take away the years when Miller did not have a full chance to recruit (first two) and this last one as it got railroaded by Mark Schlabach and Book not being fired earlier when the warning signs were out, Miller average class is 5th in the nation. Including 4 top 4 classes. We hang final four banners not recruiting banners.
You act as though winning the conference is no big deal. It is a big deal. A big fucking deal to win a conference with 12 teams. Every year, Arizona has a target on their backs and takes the best shot in front of the best crowd of the year from 11 other teams.
The problem is that the ultimate goal of the average fan is a Final Four. That's it. Watching the players go on to successful pro careers is a nice supplement to appreciate their time in an Arizona uniform. But for the recruits Miller brings in, the ultimate goal is a professional contract, preferably a guaranteed NBA contract. If they can get a Final Four in that 1-2 year process, great. But the ultimate goal is to develop into a professional.
Despite all the great players Miller has had, he hasn't had them very long. It's not as though Miller had the services of Lauri Markannen, Stanley Johnson, D'Andre Ayton for 3-4 years each and failed to deliver. And young, inexperienced but extremely talented players tend to have peaks and valleys. So it's not surprising they may struggle for one game during the NCAA tournament. And that one game has usually been the game where Arizona gets knocked out.
Throw in a lack of a point guard the last three seasons as the other criticism. Other than that, Arizona is lucky as hell to have Sean Miller. Unless the recruiting class unravels from the FBI case, Arizona is poised to be back on top in the Pac and in the hunt for a Final Four next season. And that's a fun place to be.
2004 First Team All American Football Poster as voted on by GOAZCATS
PHXCATS wrote:
I am taking the wait and see stance on Miller and next year's class. You are bragging about it but what has Miller done with these great classes? Win a down PAC12 half the time? You did go on and on about how the PAC12 was down and gave great insight into my claim of such in a few earlier posts. Zero final fours. If you take away the years when Miller did not have a full chance to recruit (first two) and this last one as it got railroaded by Mark Schlabach and Book not being fired earlier when the warning signs were out, Miller average class is 5th in the nation. Including 4 top 4 classes. We hang final four banners not recruiting banners.
You act as though winning the conference is no big deal. It is a big deal. A big fucking deal to win a conference with 12 teams. Every year, Arizona has a target on their backs and takes the best shot in front of the best crowd of the year from 11 other teams.
The problem is that the ultimate goal of the average fan is a Final Four. That's it. Watching the players go on to successful pro careers is a nice supplement to appreciate their time in an Arizona uniform. But for the recruits Miller brings in, the ultimate goal is a professional contract, preferably a guaranteed NBA contract. If they can get a Final Four in that 1-2 year process, great. But the ultimate goal is to develop into a professional.
Despite all the great players Miller has had, he hasn't had them very long. It's not as though Miller had the services of Lauri Markannen, Stanley Johnson, D'Andre Ayton for 3-4 years each and failed to deliver. And young, inexperienced but extremely talented players tend to have peaks and valleys. So it's not surprising they may struggle for one game during the NCAA tournament. And that one game has usually been the game where Arizona gets knocked out.
Throw in a lack of a point guard the last three seasons as the other criticism. Other than that, Arizona is lucky as hell to have Sean Miller. Unless the recruiting class unravels from the FBI case, Arizona is poised to be back on top in the Pac and in the hunt for a Final Four next season. And that's a fun place to be.
Honest question then. Who is the better coach? Self or K?
Self-14 Big12 Titles in 15 years at Kansas
K-12 ACC Titles in 39 years at Duke
Sorry but I am not okay with going another 18 years without a final four no matter how many PAC12 titles Miller wins in that time frame
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
PHXCATS wrote:
I am taking the wait and see stance on Miller and next year's class. You are bragging about it but what has Miller done with these great classes? Win a down PAC12 half the time? You did go on and on about how the PAC12 was down and gave great insight into my claim of such in a few earlier posts. Zero final fours. If you take away the years when Miller did not have a full chance to recruit (first two) and this last one as it got railroaded by Mark Schlabach and Book not being fired earlier when the warning signs were out, Miller average class is 5th in the nation. Including 4 top 4 classes. We hang final four banners not recruiting banners.
You act as though winning the conference is no big deal. It is a big deal. A big fucking deal to win a conference with 12 teams. Every year, Arizona has a target on their backs and takes the best shot in front of the best crowd of the year from 11 other teams.
The problem is that the ultimate goal of the average fan is a Final Four. That's it. Watching the players go on to successful pro careers is a nice supplement to appreciate their time in an Arizona uniform. But for the recruits Miller brings in, the ultimate goal is a professional contract, preferably a guaranteed NBA contract. If they can get a Final Four in that 1-2 year process, great. But the ultimate goal is to develop into a professional.
Despite all the great players Miller has had, he hasn't had them very long. It's not as though Miller had the services of Lauri Markannen, Stanley Johnson, D'Andre Ayton for 3-4 years each and failed to deliver. And young, inexperienced but extremely talented players tend to have peaks and valleys. So it's not surprising they may struggle for one game during the NCAA tournament. And that one game has usually been the game where Arizona gets knocked out.
Throw in a lack of a point guard the last three seasons as the other criticism. Other than that, Arizona is lucky as hell to have Sean Miller. Unless the recruiting class unravels from the FBI case, Arizona is poised to be back on top in the Pac and in the hunt for a Final Four next season. And that's a fun place to be.
Honest question then. Who is the better coach? Self or K?
Self-14 Big12 Titles in 15 years at Kansas
K-12 ACC Titles in 39 years at Duke
Sorry but I am not okay with going another 18 years without a final four no matter how many PAC12 titles Miller wins in that time frame
It's a stupid question. Both are great coaches. And both have had tremendous success. Good luck finding someone better than Miller to coach Arizona. Three straight Final Fours didn't do much for Ben Howland and UCLA has had Steve Alford for how many years now?
We all want Final Fours. Really bad. And I'm sure Miller wants one more than any of us can imagine. And I think he's been extremely unlucky to not have a Final Four by now and that's the frustrating part. But I think it's crazy to think Miller isn't a good fit at Arizona or is showing no signs of getting Arizona a Final Four. He's been close. And the evidence suggests he'll get close again. And maybe get over the hump. Mark Few certainly didn't show signs of getting close for 15 years. And then he finally broke through. And I'd rather be an Arizona fan than a Gonzaga fan.
Lute used to say the teams #1 goal was to win the conference. He never said it was to play on Monday. Pac titles mean a hell of a lot
Waiting at the Rose Bowl patiently for the cats to arrive
"I've got a fever, and the only prescription is more wildcat sports"
2019 BDW Survivor Pool Champion
azcat49 wrote:Lute used to say the teams #1 goal was to win the conference. He never said it was to play on Monday. Pac titles mean a hell of a lot
Thank you.
Of course they mean a lot. How many of you want to look the players from CSM's many Pac title teams in the face and tell them their achievement is trivial?
League titles are a powerful indication of a program's success. Even Pac tourney titles are important. Less so than reg season titles, imo, but they still matter.
Last edited by Beachcat97 on Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UAdevil wrote:If only the FB team competed for conference titles right Machina? Your double standards are boundless.
1- Did I say Fire Miller?
2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
UAdevil wrote:If only the FB team competed for conference titles right Machina? Your double standards are boundless.
1- Did I say Fire Miller?
2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
I don't believe you.
Love the 've! Stop with the: Would of - Could of - Should of - Must of - Might of
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
And we should all gives gobs of $$$ to FB and attend ALL games regardless of the product on the field or direction of the program, but be super skeptical of an elite or at least very good bball program...
Love the 've! Stop with the: Would of - Could of - Should of - Must of - Might of
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
Yes our basketball program is so the goals and expectations and standards are different than football. That's the only point I was making.
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
Another thing: think of the many once-elite programs, or even once-good programs, who have struggled to get back to their former glory. Some never get there. Here are some programs who at one time or another were either elite or very good but have not remained at that level consistently over time:
UCLA
Louisville
Maryland
Indiana
Georgetown
Florida
Ohio State
Cincinnati
There are probably a few others I could throw on here, but these are some of the big ones.
AZ's "down years" are generally much better than those for these other programs.
My point is just that Sean Miller has kept AZ a top 10 program for nearly a decade. He's maintained the level Lute took us to, and he's had us within striking distance of FFs and league titles over and over again. Is he beyond criticism? Of course not. But is he deserving of our robust appreciation and support? Yeah. I think so.
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
Yes our basketball program is so the goals and expectations and standards are different than football. That's the only point I was making.
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door
Says who? The asshole who LIED about Sean Miller blaming the fans for a loss?
Thanks, but I think we’ll listen to someone with a shred of integrity on when it’s time for Sean to go.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
Captain Obvious wrote:And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
It’s obvious. You are.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Usually these extended conversations go completely off the rails and serve no purpose whatsoever. In this case, I’d say it’s done a pretty good job of separating the wheat from the chaff.
prh wrote:Chicat is not in a mood for dumb posters tonight and I love it
I hit “Fuck This Bullshit” pretty early today.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
Given that Miller hasn't been arrested or charged with anything I think that (Miller behind bars) is highly unlikely. What is possible, and my opinion differs from the vast majority of the board, is that the NCAA might listen to Book saying he paid at least one player on the 2017-2018 team and sanction us solely on that evidence. People don't seem to understand that the NCAA is NOT a court of law, its a Kangaroo court. And they might decide to make an example out of the schools whose assistants were involved (or knew) of payoffs to players.
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
Given that Miller hasn't been arrested or charged with anything I think that (Miller behind bars) is highly unlikely. What is possible, and my opinion differs from the vast majority of the board, is that the NCAA might listen to Book saying he paid at least one player on the 2017-2018 team and sanction us solely on that evidence. People don't seem to understand that the NCAA is NOT a court of law, its a Kangaroo court. And they might decide to make an example out of the schools whose assistants were involved (or knew) of payoffs to players.
Book ain’t ratting. Snitches get ditches, book knows that
If he rats, he will never work in basketball again in any capacity
2004 First Team All American Football Poster as voted on by GOAZCATS
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
What fucking investigation. For the love of god Miller was fully investigated by the FBI and cleared. The u of a spent $1.7m investigating this on their own and have let miller keep coaching. Mind you board of regents have said it’s fine and our president has risked his neck for Miller on this.
We landed five top recruits. You think Nico’s parents would let him sign if they didn’t have full confidence in us being fine
My god, it’s like fans want us to get fucked
2004 First Team All American Football Poster as voted on by GOAZCATS
Beachcat97 wrote:Another thing: think of the many once-elite programs, or even once-good programs, who have struggled to get back to their former glory. Some never get there. Here are some programs who at one time or another were either elite or very good but have not remained at that level consistently over time:
UCLA
Louisville
Maryland
Indiana
Georgetown
Florida
Ohio State
Cincinnati
There are probably a few others I could throw on here, but these are some of the big ones.
AZ's "down years" are generally much better than those for these other programs.
My point is just that Sean Miller has kept AZ a top 10 program for nearly a decade. He's maintained the level Lute took us to, and he's had us within striking distance of FFs and league titles over and over again. Is he beyond criticism? Of course not. But is he deserving of our robust appreciation and support? Yeah. I think so.
This is so true. Arizona was so close to being one of those programs in 2009. Miller saved us.
What’s hilarious to me is the Miller people who doubt so hard him getting to a final four knowing he has made four elite 8’s. What do you gain with this perspective outside of your own personal ego feeling good if it doesn’t happen.
2004 First Team All American Football Poster as voted on by GOAZCATS
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
And we should all gives gobs of $$$ to FB and attend ALL games regardless of the product on the field or direction of the program, but be super skeptical of an elite or at least very good bball program...
Machina at an Arizona football game - where are all the fans? Why aren’t they here. Total BS
Machina at a home Arizona basketball game - why are all the fans here. These games are meaningless. Go home and stop supporting Miller and this program which is “underachieving”. Total BS
2004 First Team All American Football Poster as voted on by GOAZCATS
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
And we should all gives gobs of $$$ to FB and attend ALL games regardless of the product on the field or direction of the program, but be super skeptical of an elite or at least very good bball program...
Machina at an Arizona football game - where are all the fans? Why aren’t they here. Total BS
Machina at a home Arizona basketball game - why are all the fans here. These games are meaningless. Go home and stop supporting Miller and this program which is “underachieving”. Total BS
How much is my property tax bill for 2019 for all that space I own in your head
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
And PHXCATS is now on my ignored list. Sick of his garbage. Like I give a fuck about some worthless alum who spreads lies about our coaches and wants fans to unconditionally support football (which is a losing proposition in so many ways) but then wants fans to not support our basketball team/coach because we “underachieve” by winning conference titles. Think it’s dumb for our fans to attend the red and blue game even though it’s usually our most important recruiting weekend of the year.
Oh what’s that PHXCATS. Couldn’t hear you. Why don’t you post under machina and then I can read your posts again
2004 First Team All American Football Poster as voted on by GOAZCATS
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
And we should all gives gobs of $$$ to FB and attend ALL games regardless of the product on the field or direction of the program, but be super skeptical of an elite or at least very good bball program...
Machina at an Arizona football game - where are all the fans? Why aren’t they here. Total BS
Machina at a home Arizona basketball game - why are all the fans here. These games are meaningless. Go home and stop supporting Miller and this program which is “underachieving”. Total BS
Perfect summary.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
Yes our basketball program is so the goals and expectations and standards are different than football. That's the only point I was making.
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door
So if Sean Miller leads Arizona to Pac 12 regular season & conference tournament titles for 3 straight years beginning in 2019-20 and makes it to the Elite 8 twice and Sweet 16 once, you're for firing him? Really? You'd fire a coach just because he didn't get to a final four but excelled in every other metric? Well good fucking luck finding a replacement coach who's worth a shit who would leave a good job to accept an all or nothing position at Arizona. Think about what you're saying. You're in the Twilight Zone.
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
Yes our basketball program is so the goals and expectations and standards are different than football. That's the only point I was making.
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door
So if Sean Miller leads Arizona to Pac 12 regular season & conference tournament titles for 3 straight years beginning in 2019-20 and makes it to the Elite 8 twice and Sweet 16 once, you're for firing him? Really? You'd fire a coach just because he didn't get to a final four but excelled in every other metric? Well good fucking luck finding a replacement coach who's worth a shit who would leave a good job to accept an all or nothing position at Arizona. Think about what you're saying. You're in the Twilight Zone.
I would. How many times do you see people walking around town with PAC-12 regular season champions shirts? The NCAA tournament is the ultimate goal. Not PAC-12 titles or else Bill Self would be the best coach ever but you wont even answer if he is better than Coach K in your eyes. I dont care how many times UCONN has missed the NCAA, since Miller came to UA they have won two titles, I would much rather be them than 5 time PAC-12 champs
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.[/quote]
Given that Miller hasn't been arrested or charged with anything I think that (Miller behind bars) is highly unlikely. What is possible, and my opinion differs from the vast majority of the board, is that the NCAA might listen to Book saying he paid at least one player on the 2017-2018 team and sanction us solely on that evidence. People don't seem to understand that the NCAA is NOT a court of law, its a Kangaroo court. And they might decide to make an example out of the schools whose assistants were involved (or knew) of payoffs to players.[/quote]
Book ain’t ratting. Snitches get ditches, book knows that
If he rats, he will never work in basketball again in any capacity[/quote]
Book doesn't need to snitch.........The FBI already have him on tape stating he paid a player. That may well be all the NCAA requires to hang our butt from a flagpole
Last edited by dmjcat on Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
What fucking investigation. For the love of god Miller was fully investigated by the FBI and cleared. The u of a spent $1.7m investigating this on their own and have let miller keep coaching. Mind you board of regents have said it’s fine and our president has risked his neck for Miller on this.
We landed five top recruits. You think Nico’s parents would let him sign if they didn’t have full confidence in us being fine
My god, it’s like fans want us to get fucked
Please provide the link where the FBI states that they have investigated and cleared Miller. The FBI, as far as I can tell, is keeping its mouth shut regarding the ongoing investigation. Stop spreading BS.
dmjcat wrote:I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
Given that Miller hasn't been arrested or charged with anything I think that (Miller behind bars) is highly unlikely. What is possible, and my opinion differs from the vast majority of the board, is that the NCAA might listen to Book saying he paid at least one player on the 2017-2018 team and sanction us solely on that evidence. People don't seem to understand that the NCAA is NOT a court of law, its a Kangaroo court. And they might decide to make an example out of the schools whose assistants were involved (or knew) of payoffs to players.[/quote]
Book ain’t ratting. Snitches get ditches, book knows that
If he rats, he will never work in basketball again in any capacity[/quote]
Book doesn't need to snitch.........The FBI already have him on tape stating he paid a player. That may well be all the NCAA requires to hang our butt from a flagpole[/quote]
Please link it because you are greatly mistaken
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
PHXCATS wrote:2-If Sumlin can average a top five recruiting class in the nation for a few years I will hold him to the same standard for making the CFP
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.
Yes our basketball program is so the goals and expectations and standards are different than football. That's the only point I was making.
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door
So if Sean Miller leads Arizona to Pac 12 regular season & conference tournament titles for 3 straight years beginning in 2019-20 and makes it to the Elite 8 twice and Sweet 16 once, you're for firing him? Really? You'd fire a coach just because he didn't get to a final four but excelled in every other metric? Well good fucking luck finding a replacement coach who's worth a shit who would leave a good job to accept an all or nothing position at Arizona. Think about what you're saying. You're in the Twilight Zone.
I would. How many times do you see people walking around town with PAC-12 regular season champions shirts? The NCAA tournament is the ultimate goal. Not PAC-12 titles or else Bill Self would be the best coach ever but you wont even answer if he is better than Coach K in your eyes. I dont care how many times UCONN has missed the NCAA, since Miller came to UA they have won two titles, I would much rather be them than 5 time PAC-12 champs
Well I'm glad fans like you are in the minority. Because if you were in charge, you would banish Arizona basketball to irrelevance forever. If you fire a coach for winning his conference every year and only going 2-1 or 3-1 in the NCAA tournament you would never attract an established coach. You'd be laughed at like everyone is laughing at you now.
For the record, I think Krzyzewski is the better coach because he's the all-time leader in wins. That doesn't diminish Bill Self. I considered Roy Williams one of the best coaches in the country BEFORE he won it all in his second season at North Carolina.
UCONN's program is a shadow of its former self. Sure, they caught lightning in a bottle under Kevin Ollie. Is he a better coach than Sean Miller? Care to hire him after you fire Miller? I'm sure you'd be pleased with the results.
People who prefer the UConn situation to the Arizona situation are like the sort of person who thinks playing the lottery is a legitimate investment and money management strategy. I mean, some retired school teacher in Indiana just won $100 million, so why wouldn’t I? If you actually think you have higher chances in the future of getting to a Final Four or winning an NC because a coach went on a lucky hotstreak (as evidenced by ensuing consistent failure) rather than the coach who has made it to the Elite 8 every 3+ years of his coaching career then you deserve the failure that is coming your way. How’s that Bitcoin investment working out for you?
dmjcat wrote:I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
Given that Miller hasn't been arrested or charged with anything I think that (Miller behind bars) is highly unlikely. What is possible, and my opinion differs from the vast majority of the board, is that the NCAA might listen to Book saying he paid at least one player on the 2017-2018 team and sanction us solely on that evidence. People don't seem to understand that the NCAA is NOT a court of law, its a Kangaroo court. And they might decide to make an example out of the schools whose assistants were involved (or knew) of payoffs to players.
Book ain’t ratting. Snitches get ditches, book knows that
If he rats, he will never work in basketball again in any capacity[/quote]
Book doesn't need to snitch.........The FBI already have him on tape stating he paid a player. That may well be all the NCAA requires to hang our butt from a flagpole[/quote]
Please link it because you are greatly mistaken[/quote]
..EVANS, RICHARDSON, BLAND, DAWKINS, and SOOD, and others known and unknown, participated in a scheme to defraud University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 by facilitating and concealing bribe payments to prospective and current student-athletes at those universities, and/or their families, including by telephone, email, and wire transfers of funds, among other means, thereby causing University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 to provide athletic scholarships to student athletes who, in truth and in fact, were ineligible to compete as a result of the bribe payments.
"DAWKINS made reference to one basketball player at [Arizona] who already had recieved payments "so we got no expenses there," and told RICHARDSON that "you use that money that you get from him to help you recruit, do whatever or fucking just go on vacation with it."
Last edited by dmjcat on Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LOL! Has any AZ football coach in the history of the school recruited at that level? No. It's a lame proposition.
Let's not mince words: our hoops program is elite, our football program is not.[/quote]
Yes our basketball program is so the goals and expectations and standards are different than football. That's the only point I was making.
I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote]
So if Sean Miller leads Arizona to Pac 12 regular season & conference tournament titles for 3 straight years beginning in 2019-20 and makes it to the Elite 8 twice and Sweet 16 once, you're for firing him? Really? You'd fire a coach just because he didn't get to a final four but excelled in every other metric? Well good fucking luck finding a replacement coach who's worth a shit who would leave a good job to accept an all or nothing position at Arizona. Think about what you're saying. You're in the Twilight Zone.[/quote]
I would. How many times do you see people walking around town with PAC-12 regular season champions shirts? The NCAA tournament is the ultimate goal. Not PAC-12 titles or else Bill Self would be the best coach ever but you wont even answer if he is better than Coach K in your eyes. I dont care how many times UCONN has missed the NCAA, since Miller came to UA they have won two titles, I would much rather be them than 5 time PAC-12 champs[/quote]
Well I'm glad fans like you are in the minority. Because if you were in charge, you would banish Arizona basketball to irrelevance forever. If you fire a coach for winning his conference every year and only going 2-1 or 3-1 in the NCAA tournament you would never attract an established coach. You'd be laughed at like everyone is laughing at you now.
For the record, I think Krzyzewski is the better coach because he's the all-time leader in wins. That doesn't diminish Bill Self. I considered Roy Williams one of the best coaches in the country BEFORE he won it all in his second season at North Carolina.
UCONN's program is a shadow of its former self. Sure, they caught lightning in a bottle under Kevin Ollie. Is he a better coach than Sean Miller? Care to hire him after you fire Miller? I'm sure you'd be pleased with the results.[/quote]
Completely agree. John Wooden became head coach of UCLA in 1948...............he didn't win his first NCAA title until 1964. If we employed the logic of certain posters to John Wooden he would have been fired in 1958.
dmjcat wrote:I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
Given that Miller hasn't been arrested or charged with anything I think that (Miller behind bars) is highly unlikely. What is possible, and my opinion differs from the vast majority of the board, is that the NCAA might listen to Book saying he paid at least one player on the 2017-2018 team and sanction us solely on that evidence. People don't seem to understand that the NCAA is NOT a court of law, its a Kangaroo court. And they might decide to make an example out of the schools whose assistants were involved (or knew) of payoffs to players.
Book ain’t ratting. Snitches get ditches, book knows that
If he rats, he will never work in basketball again in any capacity
Book doesn't need to snitch.........The FBI already have him on tape stating he paid a player. That may well be all the NCAA requires to hang our butt from a flagpole[/quote]
Please link it because you are greatly mistaken[/quote]
..EVANS, RICHARDSON, BLAND, DAWKINS, and SOOD, and others known and unknown, participated in a scheme to defraud University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 by facilitating and concealing bribe payments to prospective and current student-athletes at those universities, and/or their families, including by telephone, email, and wire transfers of funds, among other means, thereby causing University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 to provide athletic scholarships to student athletes who, in truth and in fact, were ineligible to compete as a result of the bribe payments.
"DAWKINS made reference to one basketball player at [Arizona] who already had recieved payments "so we got no expenses there," and told RICHARDSON that "you use that money that you get from him to help you recruit, do whatever or fucking just go on vacation with it."[/quote]
We know two things
1) The player in question as it relates to Arizona was cleared by the NCAA so no harm there
2) Book is in trouble not for paying players to go to Arizona but to trying to get players to a specific agent after college
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
dmjcat wrote:I have defended Miller hard since this bullshit MSPN stuff happened but he needs to make a final four in the next few years or be shown the door[/quote
And if the FBI investigation proves Miller to be guilty that door might have bars on it. The FBI doesn't get involved unless they have serious evidence. I find it hard to believe he knew nothing and didn't commit violations. I hope he didn't but the longer the investigation drags on the more I believe Miller will eventually be terminated as our HC. I really hope I'm wrong in my thinking but I don't think I am.
Given that Miller hasn't been arrested or charged with anything I think that (Miller behind bars) is highly unlikely. What is possible, and my opinion differs from the vast majority of the board, is that the NCAA might listen to Book saying he paid at least one player on the 2017-2018 team and sanction us solely on that evidence. People don't seem to understand that the NCAA is NOT a court of law, its a Kangaroo court. And they might decide to make an example out of the schools whose assistants were involved (or knew) of payoffs to players.
Book ain’t ratting. Snitches get ditches, book knows that
If he rats, he will never work in basketball again in any capacity
Book doesn't need to snitch.........The FBI already have him on tape stating he paid a player. That may well be all the NCAA requires to hang our butt from a flagpole
Please link it because you are greatly mistaken[/quote]
..EVANS, RICHARDSON, BLAND, DAWKINS, and SOOD, and others known and unknown, participated in a scheme to defraud University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 by facilitating and concealing bribe payments to prospective and current student-athletes at those universities, and/or their families, including by telephone, email, and wire transfers of funds, among other means, thereby causing University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 to provide athletic scholarships to student athletes who, in truth and in fact, were ineligible to compete as a result of the bribe payments.
"DAWKINS made reference to one basketball player at [Arizona] who already had recieved payments "so we got no expenses there," and told RICHARDSON that "you use that money that you get from him to help you recruit, do whatever or fucking just go on vacation with it."[/quote]
We know two things
1) The player in question as it relates to Arizona was cleared by the NCAA so no harm there
2) Book is in trouble not for paying players to go to Arizona but to trying to get players to a specific agent after college[/quote]
No, we know 1 thing: PHXCATS can't read or comprehend the English language.
EVANS, RICHARDSON, BLAND, DAWKINS, and SOOD, and others known and unknown, participated in a scheme to defraud University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 by facilitating and concealing bribe payments to prospective and current student-athletes at those universities
UCDavis, who nearly beat us in McKale, makes their last four 3 balls to lose by 18 to Loyola Marymount. Shorts may have been held to single digits.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
I've always been critical of the Miller haters, and the large number of fans in our base (not this board specifically) who always think the sky is falling and think the only fix is to fire a head coach. That said, I get both sides of the argument at this point. Barring a miracle, this will be 18 years without a final 4.
Ive always been one to defend consistent regular season success over what we have seen at UCONN in recent years. On the flip side, its true, our conference has been shit for the most part, so I get that argument as well. Regardless, you have to ultimately win that elusive game at some point. It was an easier pill to swallow after TJ's second season when you werent too far removed from that knocking on the door feeling. But since then:
15-16: A top 25 all year (IIRC) team and ranked as high at #7 with seasoned seniors in Zeus and York with winning pedigrees off the great teams of years prior, a double double all you can ask for (except defense) from a grad transfer in Ryan Anderson, Kadeem Allen, and one of the best scoring freshmen in Arizona history, Trier, got embarrassed by a mid major in the round of 64. Our excuse being it was a "down year" due to roster turnover and a horrible matchup due to shit seeding. Very reasonable excuses at the time, but the trend continues.
16-17: Top 25 all year team and Top 10 most of the year (incl last 7 weeks of the season). An absolute unicorn in Lauri (our Kaminsky!!), another top-tier scorer in Trier, an excellent freshman in Rawle, an absolute glue guy and all around stud senior in Kadeem, a very good low post threat in jr Dusan, and a fairly solid bench (chance, pjc, and Kobi, albeit he somehow fell off completely. We beat a 15 seed, cool. We beat a solid but maybe a bit overrated mid major in St mary's, but then collapse in the sweet 16 to an 11 seed Xavier team who were down two very important pieces they started the season with. The kicker: Our "Kaminsky" only took 9 shots and IIRC, only 1 in the second half. His fault? Our excuse then was Alkins broke this thumb. Reasonable, but the trend continues.
17-18: Just when we were down about blowing our chance to finally break through that wall w out unicorn, we get the biggest unicorn since Shaq. Oh btw, we get Trier back, a guy who you could argue was the most dynamic scoring wing in the country. Oh btw, we got Rawle back too. We also had Dusan, who was now an elite low post threat, and a senior PJC, who all flaws and complaints aside was still solid and should have been enough. Our bench wasnt the best, but we had enough. A preseason top 3 team that couldnt quite figure it out but stayed in the top 25 most of the year, and was trending hot at the end w the conference tourny title and demolishing of Oregon. Then in the round of 64, we get completely embarrassed by a mid major. Our excuse was the season-long FBI drama. Reasonable? Maybe. But i say no based on the trends, and I dont know how the fuck u lose w a once in a lifetime freak of nature, arguably the best scoring wing in college basketball, and everything else mentioned above. Let alone to lose that badly.
If the excuse is, "well its because outside of TJ, we never had the right PG," that falls on Miller. TJ was arguably the most special players to play at Arizona. A "Rudy" with complete game talent who basically fell onto our lap. If the excuse is the FBI shit, well that too falls on Miller; we've been told about the many warning signs/red flags and the decision to keep him around was Miller. We are Arizona, eventually you have to overcome shit luck and win the games laid out before you. You have to overcome the shit luck. God knows we have had more talent than just about anyone else. You look at the TJ teams, yeah again, shit luck w Bash's foot, but that was one of two seasons and think of how outstanding those teams were. I can see the whole running into a special Wisky team, but why couldnt we be the special team they all had nightmares about? Its not like we didnt have elite defenders like Aaron Gordon, Rondae or Stanley for their nightmare Kaminskies or Dekkers. But again, the trends.
And here we are in this season. Again, our excuse is losing the house. Or ESPN. Maybe reasonable if not for the trends. Still complaining about our vanilla offense. Still complaining about Miller's stubborn ways. Still complaining about Miller's micromanaging. Still complaining about Miller's inability to play to the strengths of his personnel/fully utilizing his best pieces. Another season without a top 20 defense for a program that prides itself on it, etc. Miller's got some 3 and 4 year guys in place, but most are severely underperforming (still early) or were maybe just swings and misses in terms of Millers evaluation. We have another great class coming in. Lord knows that has never been the issue. No, I'm not sitting here with my pitchfork screaming for Miller to be fired. But, at this point, I FULLY understand the other side of the argument and I dont think its unreasonable. Next year may not be a final four or fired year, but he's gotta start getting us back to knocking on the door again.
Agree with a lot of what you said but I think all coaches in college struggle with ups and downs especially in this day and age of one and dones and crazy roster turnover
It is really hard to do what coach K has done at Duke. Think about Lute from 90-93.
I would fall more in the camp of thinking Miller should be on the hot seat if he wasn’t such a Damn good recruiter. Now again, 3 years from now and no final four and it doesn’t look like we are even close to making one, I am all for him leaving. To me then I can feel confident he is mark richt. Great recruiter, does well, but can’t get over that one hump and gets to the point where you move on.
But to pull of the miracle Miller did with the 2019 recruiting class showed me he is fully committed to doing everything in his power to get us to a final four. In the end maybe it’s not enough but the guy in my opinion deserves our support to figure it out next couple of years. I am frustrated with the trends too as the do what we do thing has worn thin. Always appreciated coaches who maximized the talent they had and adjusted
Oh and there is also that little thing of hiring a new coach too. Since Cedric Dempsey left, I am scared shitless of our AD’s making coaching hires especially when it’s a move based more on the coach wearing a fan base thin and less on them being a bad coach ala dick Tomey.
But if fans keep not showing up (I think for this year it’s just due to our team and crowds will be back) then our AD will be forced to do something. Our Athletic department can not afford to have mckale not full charging premium prices for tickets.
Will be interesting to see how it all plays out
Last edited by Newportcat on Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:19 pm, edited 6 times in total.
2004 First Team All American Football Poster as voted on by GOAZCATS
rgdeuce wrote:I've always been critical of the Miller haters, and the large number of fans in our base (not this board specifically) who always think the sky is falling and think the only fix is to fire a head coach. That said, I get both sides of the argument at this point. Barring a miracle, this will be 18 years without a final 4.
Ive always been one to defend consistent regular season success over what we have seen at UCONN in recent years. On the flip side, its true, our conference has been shit for the most part, so I get that argument as well. Regardless, you have to ultimately win that elusive game at some point. It was an easier pill to swallow after TJ's second season when you werent too far removed from that knocking on the door feeling. But since then:
15-16: A top 25 all year (IIRC) team and ranked as high at #7 with seasoned seniors in Zeus and York with winning pedigrees off the great teams of years prior, a double double all you can ask for (except defense) from a grad transfer in Ryan Anderson, Kadeem Allen, and one of the best scoring freshmen in Arizona history, Trier, got embarrassed by a mid major in the round of 64. Our excuse being it was a "down year" due to roster turnover and a horrible matchup due to shit seeding. Very reasonable excuses at the time, but the trend continues.
16-17: Top 25 all year team and Top 10 most of the year (incl last 7 weeks of the season). An absolute unicorn in Lauri (our Kaminsky!!), another top-tier scorer in Trier, an excellent freshman in Rawle, an absolute glue guy and all around stud senior in Kadeem, a very good low post threat in jr Dusan, and a fairly solid bench (chance, pjc, and Kobi, albeit he somehow fell off completely. We beat a 15 seed, cool. We beat a solid but maybe a bit overrated mid major in St mary's, but then collapse in the sweet 16 to an 11 seed Xavier team who were down two very important pieces they started the season with. The kicker: Our "Kaminsky" only took 9 shots and IIRC, only 1 in the second half. His fault? Our excuse then was Alkins broke this thumb. Reasonable, but the trend continues.
17-18: Just when we were down about blowing our chance to finally break through that wall w out unicorn, we get the biggest unicorn since Shaq. Oh btw, we get Trier back, a guy who you could argue was the most dynamic scoring wing in the country. Oh btw, we got Rawle back too. We also had Dusan, who was now an elite low post threat, and a senior PJC, who all flaws and complaints aside was still solid and should have been enough. Our bench wasnt the best, but we had enough. A preseason top 3 team that couldnt quite figure it out but stayed in the top 25 most of the year, and was trending hot at the end w the conference tourny title and demolishing of Oregon. Then in the round of 64, we get completely embarrassed by a mid major. Our excuse was the season-long FBI drama. Reasonable? Maybe. But i say no based on the trends, and I dont know how the fuck u lose w a once in a lifetime freak of nature, arguably the best scoring wing in college basketball, and everything else mentioned above. Let alone to lose that badly.
If the excuse is, "well its because outside of TJ, we never had the right PG," that falls on Miller. TJ was arguably the most special players to play at Arizona. A "Rudy" with complete game talent who basically fell onto our lap. If the excuse is the FBI shit, well that too falls on Miller; we've been told about the many warning signs/red flags and the decision to keep him around was Miller. We are Arizona, eventually you have to overcome shit luck and win the games laid out before you. You have to overcome the shit luck. God knows we have had more talent than just about anyone else. You look at the TJ teams, yeah again, shit luck w Bash's foot, but that was one of two seasons and think of how outstanding those teams were. I can see the whole running into a special Wisky team, but why couldnt we be the special team they all had nightmares about? Its not like we didnt have elite defenders like Aaron Gordon, Rondae or Stanley for their nightmare Kaminskies or Dekkers. But again, the trends.
And here we are in this season. Again, our excuse is losing the house. Or ESPN. Maybe reasonable if not for the trends. Still complaining about our vanilla offense. Still complaining about Miller's stubborn ways. Still complaining about Miller's micromanaging. Still complaining about Miller's inability to play to the strengths of his personnel/fully utilizing his best pieces. Another season without a top 20 defense for a program that prides itself on it, etc. Miller's got some 3 and 4 year guys in place, but most are severely underperforming (still early) or were maybe just swings and misses in terms of Millers evaluation. We have another great class coming in. Lord knows that has never been the issue. No, I'm not sitting here with my pitchfork screaming for Miller to be fired. But, at this point, I FULLY understand the other side of the argument and I dont think its unreasonable. Next year may not be a final four or fired year, but he's gotta start getting us back to knocking on the door again.
rgdeuce wrote:I've always been critical of the Miller haters, and the large number of fans in our base (not this board specifically) who always think the sky is falling and think the only fix is to fire a head coach. That said, I get both sides of the argument at this point. Barring a miracle, this will be 18 years without a final 4.
Ive always been one to defend consistent regular season success over what we have seen at UCONN in recent years. On the flip side, its true, our conference has been shit for the most part, so I get that argument as well. Regardless, you have to ultimately win that elusive game at some point. It was an easier pill to swallow after TJ's second season when you werent too far removed from that knocking on the door feeling. But since then:
15-16: A top 25 all year (IIRC) team and ranked as high at #7 with seasoned seniors in Zeus and York with winning pedigrees off the great teams of years prior, a double double all you can ask for (except defense) from a grad transfer in Ryan Anderson, Kadeem Allen, and one of the best scoring freshmen in Arizona history, Trier, got embarrassed by a mid major in the round of 64. Our excuse being it was a "down year" due to roster turnover and a horrible matchup due to shit seeding. Very reasonable excuses at the time, but the trend continues.
16-17: Top 25 all year team and Top 10 most of the year (incl last 7 weeks of the season). An absolute unicorn in Lauri (our Kaminsky!!), another top-tier scorer in Trier, an excellent freshman in Rawle, an absolute glue guy and all around stud senior in Kadeem, a very good low post threat in jr Dusan, and a fairly solid bench (chance, pjc, and Kobi, albeit he somehow fell off completely. We beat a 15 seed, cool. We beat a solid but maybe a bit overrated mid major in St mary's, but then collapse in the sweet 16 to an 11 seed Xavier team who were down two very important pieces they started the season with. The kicker: Our "Kaminsky" only took 9 shots and IIRC, only 1 in the second half. His fault? Our excuse then was Alkins broke this thumb. Reasonable, but the trend continues.
17-18: Just when we were down about blowing our chance to finally break through that wall w out unicorn, we get the biggest unicorn since Shaq. Oh btw, we get Trier back, a guy who you could argue was the most dynamic scoring wing in the country. Oh btw, we got Rawle back too. We also had Dusan, who was now an elite low post threat, and a senior PJC, who all flaws and complaints aside was still solid and should have been enough. Our bench wasnt the best, but we had enough. A preseason top 3 team that couldnt quite figure it out but stayed in the top 25 most of the year, and was trending hot at the end w the conference tourny title and demolishing of Oregon. Then in the round of 64, we get completely embarrassed by a mid major. Our excuse was the season-long FBI drama. Reasonable? Maybe. But i say no based on the trends, and I dont know how the fuck u lose w a once in a lifetime freak of nature, arguably the best scoring wing in college basketball, and everything else mentioned above. Let alone to lose that badly.
If the excuse is, "well its because outside of TJ, we never had the right PG," that falls on Miller. TJ was arguably the most special players to play at Arizona. A "Rudy" with complete game talent who basically fell onto our lap. If the excuse is the FBI shit, well that too falls on Miller; we've been told about the many warning signs/red flags and the decision to keep him around was Miller. We are Arizona, eventually you have to overcome shit luck and win the games laid out before you. You have to overcome the shit luck. God knows we have had more talent than just about anyone else. You look at the TJ teams, yeah again, shit luck w Bash's foot, but that was one of two seasons and think of how outstanding those teams were. I can see the whole running into a special Wisky team, but why couldnt we be the special team they all had nightmares about? Its not like we didnt have elite defenders like Aaron Gordon, Rondae or Stanley for their nightmare Kaminskies or Dekkers. But again, the trends.
And here we are in this season. Again, our excuse is losing the house. Or ESPN. Maybe reasonable if not for the trends. Still complaining about our vanilla offense. Still complaining about Miller's stubborn ways. Still complaining about Miller's micromanaging. Still complaining about Miller's inability to play to the strengths of his personnel/fully utilizing his best pieces. Another season without a top 20 defense for a program that prides itself on it, etc. Miller's got some 3 and 4 year guys in place, but most are severely underperforming (still early) or were maybe just swings and misses in terms of Millers evaluation. We have another great class coming in. Lord knows that has never been the issue. No, I'm not sitting here with my pitchfork screaming for Miller to be fired. But, at this point, I FULLY understand the other side of the argument and I dont think its unreasonable. Next year may not be a final four or fired year, but he's gotta start getting us back to knocking on the door again.
Sorry, had some problems posting. I disagree with you on this simple fact that most of Miller's problems are more with attrition and continuity than his coaching ability. We've lost multiple key players to the pros who left too early (Nick Johnson, Justin Simon, Ray Smith, Kobi and Chance). Over the last four years if those players stay there's at least one FF among those campaigns.
Too many Wildcat fans think that talent alone wins tournaments. PJC and Trier were weak on defense and were not the guards you need to make a solid tournament run. Our backcourt was weak, Buffalo exploited it, and the tournament committee knew it. Buffalo was terribly underseeded, which was validated by their top 25 ranking this year. PJC and Trier were great on talent, but short on maturity. PJC was never the type of guard that could take over a game if needed. You can't put a four cylinder engine in a Ferrari. I don't think Miller ever expected the dropoff from TJ to PJC to be so dramatic, especially considering he was an ESPN 100 guard. Miller had trouble recruiting over him, with the final nail in the coffin with Trevon Duval picking Duke over us.
The Oregon game last year in Eugene really hurt us. Miller has to leave, Trier is suspended, we were on the cusp of a top 10 ranking, and we lose. The coaches hammered us in the ranking because of the ESPN article, we get rewarded with a 4 seed which should have at least been a 2 seed, and we face a hungry underseeded Buffalo team in the first round. All of the fans wanted to jump on Miller, but in reality I could see it coming from a mile away.
Trier's game was not really suited for NCAA ball, although he put up great numbers for us. His game is more pro oriented, which is why he is performing much better for the Knicks. The thing I like about Miller is that he is an insanely competitive coach and will not likely run into the PJC issue ever again. Again, I understand the frustration, but too many fans are too willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to Miller.
Thank you, RG. The trends, as you put it. What it comes down to is just observing the lack of success in breaking through during the tourney. Observing that isn’t tantamount to wanting Miller fired, and the reality isn’t canceled out by other programs’ disappointments.
We went through the same thing with Lute and we somehow came through in '98 with that unexpected run where we almost went out in the first round. The Tourney has and always will be a fucking crap shoot.
Miller is the best coach for Arizona and will deliver someday.
Some of you posters really need therapy. STFU and wait until next year where btw we have the #1 recruiting class.
We went through the same thing with Lute and we somehow came through in '98 with that unexpected run where we almost went out in the first round. The Tourney has and always will be a fucking crap shoot.
Miller is the best coach for Arizona and will deliver someday.
Some of you posters really need therapy. STFU and wait until next year where btw we have the #1 recruiting class.
Having all those #3 classes really got Miller to the final four so I am sure the #1 class will do the trick.
At this point Lute won more conference titles than Miller has and the conference was much stronger then. And Lute had a final four at Arizona and one at Iowa.
Final fours are the real goal of a blue blood program. Cant strive to be one if you dont act like one and hold yourself to the same standards. I would give Miller this year and three more after this one to get a final four. That would be 13 fucking seasons. If he doesnt get to a final four by then he should be fired
2018 Bear Down Wildcats Conference Championship Challenge Champion
