Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[Spaceman Spiff]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

I know what he did last summer.

[pc in NM]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

[UAEebs86]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

I know what he did last summer.

[dmjcat]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

I didn't claim to know what Pasternack did last summer.........Choo Choo DID.

I'm still waiting for Choo to respond and let the board know exactly how he knows that Pasternack didn't try to bribe recruits.

Maybe he threw Pasternack to the ground and performed a Vulcan Mind Meld??

Maybe he replaced Pasternacks wedding ring with a microphone equipped ring??

Maybe he just has exceptional Extra-Sensory Perception.

Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way, you are right about Newport...........his statement that AZ has NEVER had a clean program is equally ludicrous. He has NO way of knowing that.

[Longhorned]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

I didn't claim to know what Pasternack did last summer.........Choo Choo DID.

I'm still waiting for Choo to respond and let the board know exactly how he knows that Pasternack didn't try to bribe recruits.

Maybe he threw Pasternack to the ground and performed a Vulcan Mind Meld??

Maybe he replaced Pasternacks wedding ring with a microphone equipped ring??

Maybe he just has exceptional Extra-Sensory Perception.

Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way, you are right about Newport...........his statement that AZ has NEVER had a clean program is equally ludicrous. He has NO way of knowing that.

Dmj, I don’t know how Choo knows, but is that really the issue as far as you’re concerned? Or is it the anonymity of the info? I can’t give my source, either, but I’ve known for a long time that there’s nothing to corroborate Pasternack ever offering a penny to any recruit, and that UCSB thinks it’s bullshit.

[ChooChooCat]

Dmj, I'm just not into you, I'm sorry my man, but you're just going to have to find another man to obsess over on the internet, because I just frankly don't care enough to continue this one sided relationship.

Good post Longhorned.

[Newportcat]

And you know this HOW??? Did you have a body cam on Pasternack 24/7??? Did you have his phone bugged???

Your credibility shrinks more every day. You have NO CLUE what Pasternack did so stop pretending that you did.

You too have no clue what he did, or didn't, do, correct?

... what you seem to have are your own standards....

I didn't claim to know what Pasternack did last summer.........Choo Choo DID.

I'm still waiting for Choo to respond and let the board know exactly how he knows that Pasternack didn't try to bribe recruits.

Maybe he threw Pasternack to the ground and performed a Vulcan Mind Meld??

Maybe he replaced Pasternacks wedding ring with a microphone equipped ring??

Maybe he just has exceptional Extra-Sensory Perception.

Inquiring minds want to know.

By the way, you are right about Newport...........his statement that AZ has NEVER had a clean program is equally ludicrous. He has NO way of knowing that.

Yes maybe in the 60’s the program was clean

Program sure as shit wasn’t clean under Lute. Recruits got paid in many different ways. You think Gilbert drove a Lexus because his dad was rich? Where did that Lexus come from....

And program sure as shit ain’t clean under Miller. I mean Jesus, book is going to jail.

How can we even debate this at this point. There is nothing to debate

I don’t care we are dirty either because the ncaa is the most inept corrupt worthless organization ever m. These rules are all so stupid. But no one here should even for one second think that we have been on the up and up. Sure when we sucked we were but to get many of the top recruits you got to play the game. We played it well until we didn’t or until FBI decided to get involved

I mean look how quickly book accepted that money to stear players to the agents

[dmjcat]

Dmj, I'm just not into you, I'm sorry my man, but you're just going to have to find another man to obsess over on the internet, because I just frankly don't care enough to continue this one sided relationship.

Good post Longhorned.

Thanks for confirming that you are full of crap and have absolutely ZERO evidence that Pasternack is clean.

You and Newport should really look up the definition of the word SPECULATION. The two of you
really need to stop engaging in absolute statements that neither one of you can back up.

[ChooChooCat]

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

Was Joe dirty as shit or was he merely a cog in a dirty as shit system? I already hinted that Joe, like every other coach in the country, may have known about certain shoe companies roles, but does that make him dirty?

He sure as hell didn't do what Book did, but Book's motivation was the guy couldn't handle his god damn finances while having a 6 figure job in Tucson, AZ for christ sakes.

Like I said Arizona has gotten involved in some shady recruitments (it's not hard to figure out which ones were shady) and passed on the vast majority of others. In this business you play the cards that are dealt to you and try to win the pot.

[Newportcat]

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

Was Joe dirty as shit or was he merely a cog in a dirty as shit system? I already hinted that Joe, like every other coach in the country, may have known about certain shoe companies roles, but does that make him dirty?

He sure as hell didn't do what Book did, but Book's motivation was the guy couldn't handle his god damn finances while having a 6 figure job in Tucson, AZ for christ sakes.

Like I said Arizona has gotten involved in some shady recruitments (it's not hard to figure out which ones were shady) and passed on the vast majority of others. In this business you play the cards that are dealt to you and try to win the pot.

Choo, again you could be totally right on the 2019 class. I am making assumptions on it and I could see why people would say their recruitments are all clean. I personally doubt it but I could be dead wrong.

but Joe clean, I would just stop. Whoever is giving you that information is just wrong or is lying to you.

In this business like any business, you do your best to figure out ways to stack the deck

[ChooChooCat]

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

Was Joe dirty as shit or was he merely a cog in a dirty as shit system? I already hinted that Joe, like every other coach in the country, may have known about certain shoe companies roles, but does that make him dirty?

He sure as hell didn't do what Book did, but Book's motivation was the guy couldn't handle his god damn finances while having a 6 figure job in Tucson, AZ for christ sakes.

Like I said Arizona has gotten involved in some shady recruitments (it's not hard to figure out which ones were shady) and passed on the vast majority of others. In this business you play the cards that are dealt to you and try to win the pot.

Choo, again you could be totally right on the 2019 class. I am making assumptions on it and I could see why people would say their recruitments are all clean. I personally doubt it but I could be dead wrong.

but Joe clean, I would just stop. Whoever is giving you that information is just wrong or is lying to you.

In this business like any business, you do your best to figure out ways to stack the deck

Lol once again it solely depends on your definition of dirty Newport. From my read you view the NCAA as dirty in of itself, but yet you're putting blame on Pasternack, although you admit it's HIGHLY unlikely he paid anybody or ever offered to do so? It's just odd.

Either way 2019 is full of good kids from good families. The Mannions don't need money, the Greens have a great relationship with Miller due to the length of that recruitment, Koloko isn't at the level you pay for him so he's a wash, Nnaji it was all about Danny Peters and more importantly playing time and ability to possibly be a one and done, and Armstrong was Arizona outworking every one else. In each recruitment family was very important. If you want a really questionable recruiting class look no further than 2016 and the lead recruiter for every one not named Lauri Markkanen in that class was Book, so yeah...

[Spaceman Spiff]

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

Was Joe dirty as shit or was he merely a cog in a dirty as shit system? I already hinted that Joe, like every other coach in the country, may have known about certain shoe companies roles, but does that make him dirty?

He sure as hell didn't do what Book did, but Book's motivation was the guy couldn't handle his god damn finances while having a 6 figure job in Tucson, AZ for christ sakes.

Like I said Arizona has gotten involved in some shady recruitments (it's not hard to figure out which ones were shady) and passed on the vast majority of others. In this business you play the cards that are dealt to you and try to win the pot.

Choo, again you could be totally right on the 2019 class. I am making assumptions on it and I could see why people would say their recruitments are all clean. I personally doubt it but I could be dead wrong.

but Joe clean, I would just stop. Whoever is giving you that information is just wrong or is lying to you.

In this business like any business, you do your best to figure out ways to stack the deck

In college basketball, clean is relative. I don't think Pasternack was personally offering payment.

Was he tied to the same system as every other team that recruits AAU? Yes. That system has a lot to do with money, but not in the sense people usually think. Coaches build ties to the money men anf the money men do work.

[Newportcat]

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

Was Joe dirty as shit or was he merely a cog in a dirty as shit system? I already hinted that Joe, like every other coach in the country, may have known about certain shoe companies roles, but does that make him dirty?

He sure as hell didn't do what Book did, but Book's motivation was the guy couldn't handle his god damn finances while having a 6 figure job in Tucson, AZ for christ sakes.

Like I said Arizona has gotten involved in some shady recruitments (it's not hard to figure out which ones were shady) and passed on the vast majority of others. In this business you play the cards that are dealt to you and try to win the pot.

Choo, again you could be totally right on the 2019 class. I am making assumptions on it and I could see why people would say their recruitments are all clean. I personally doubt it but I could be dead wrong.

but Joe clean, I would just stop. Whoever is giving you that information is just wrong or is lying to you.

In this business like any business, you do your best to figure out ways to stack the deck

In college basketball, clean is relative. I don't think Pasternack was personally offering payment.

Was he tied to the same system as every other team that recruits AAU? Yes. That system has a lot to do with money, but not in the sense people usually think. Coaches build ties to the money men anf the money men do work.

Pasternack did not give players envelopes full of cash directly but your last statement is completely true.

[Newportcat]

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

Was Joe dirty as shit or was he merely a cog in a dirty as shit system? I already hinted that Joe, like every other coach in the country, may have known about certain shoe companies roles, but does that make him dirty?

He sure as hell didn't do what Book did, but Book's motivation was the guy couldn't handle his god damn finances while having a 6 figure job in Tucson, AZ for christ sakes.

Like I said Arizona has gotten involved in some shady recruitments (it's not hard to figure out which ones were shady) and passed on the vast majority of others. In this business you play the cards that are dealt to you and try to win the pot.

Choo, again you could be totally right on the 2019 class. I am making assumptions on it and I could see why people would say their recruitments are all clean. I personally doubt it but I could be dead wrong.

but Joe clean, I would just stop. Whoever is giving you that information is just wrong or is lying to you.

In this business like any business, you do your best to figure out ways to stack the deck

Lol once again it solely depends on your definition of dirty Newport. From my read you view the NCAA as dirty in of itself, but yet you're putting blame on Pasternack, although you admit it's HIGHLY unlikely he paid anybody or ever offered to do so? It's just odd.

Either way 2019 is full of good kids from good families. The Mannions don't need money, the Greens have a great relationship with Miller due to the length of that recruitment, Koloko isn't at the level you pay for him so he's a wash, Nnaji it was all about Danny Peters and more importantly playing time and ability to possibly be a one and done, and Armstrong was Arizona outworking every one else. In each recruitment family was very important. If you want a really questionable recruiting class look no further than 2016 and the lead recruiter for every one not named Lauri Markkanen in that class was Book, so yeah...

I put blame on Joe for getting sloppy and a ton of blame on Book for being super shady

But Joe got sloppy. No where close to Book sloppy but sloppy all the same

There are reasons why certain programs have been targeted in all this. Part of is because it’s was our own damn fault for being really sloppy.

I mean it’s just funny we are even debating it

[ChooChooCat]

That's fine to put that out there Choo and you might be right in that Joe Pasternack personally never gave a recruit cash. Rarely is a coach ever giving a kid cash directly. Joe is not that stupid.

But Joe was and is dirty as shit and its a good thing he is no longer in our program. DIRTY.

I have no insight into the 2019 recruiting class. I really hope you are right and the 2019 class is clean. I could be totally wrong on it not being clean.

But Joe is Christina circa 2005 Dirty

Was Joe dirty as shit or was he merely a cog in a dirty as shit system? I already hinted that Joe, like every other coach in the country, may have known about certain shoe companies roles, but does that make him dirty?

He sure as hell didn't do what Book did, but Book's motivation was the guy couldn't handle his god damn finances while having a 6 figure job in Tucson, AZ for christ sakes.

Like I said Arizona has gotten involved in some shady recruitments (it's not hard to figure out which ones were shady) and passed on the vast majority of others. In this business you play the cards that are dealt to you and try to win the pot.

Choo, again you could be totally right on the 2019 class. I am making assumptions on it and I could see why people would say their recruitments are all clean. I personally doubt it but I could be dead wrong.

but Joe clean, I would just stop. Whoever is giving you that information is just wrong or is lying to you.

In this business like any business, you do your best to figure out ways to stack the deck

Lol once again it solely depends on your definition of dirty Newport. From my read you view the NCAA as dirty in of itself, but yet you're putting blame on Pasternack, although you admit it's HIGHLY unlikely he paid anybody or ever offered to do so? It's just odd.

Either way 2019 is full of good kids from good families. The Mannions don't need money, the Greens have a great relationship with Miller due to the length of that recruitment, Koloko isn't at the level you pay for him so he's a wash, Nnaji it was all about Danny Peters and more importantly playing time and ability to possibly be a one and done, and Armstrong was Arizona outworking every one else. In each recruitment family was very important. If you want a really questionable recruiting class look no further than 2016 and the lead recruiter for every one not named Lauri Markkanen in that class was Book, so yeah...

I put blame on Joe for getting sloppy and a ton of blame on Book for being super shady

But Joe got sloppy. No where close to Book sloppy but sloppy all the same

There are reasons why certain programs have been targeted in all this. Part of is because it’s was our own damn fault for being really sloppy.

I mean it’s just funny we are even debating it

There's nothing there to suggest he got sloppy. He along with Book met up with Dawkins in Vegas to see what he was all about. Book bought into it, Pasternack didn't. The other thing involving Pasternack is a he said/he said, which is literally nothing.

[Chicat]

You guys are going to cause me to start drinking even earlier in the morning.

[catgrad97]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

[ChooChooCat]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

[catgrad97]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

Standards have fallen across the board. But this sloppiness is just the latest and nearest byproduct of the local malaise that has hit our program several times going back decades.

Honestly, if Jim Storey really knew how to run a recruiting showcase, this thread wouldn't exist. But he got close enough to Lute to gain his implicit trust--enough to let said recruits eat pizza and Eegee's in the Eddie Lynch Pavilion in 2007. He wasn't careful.

This was a big time program hosting big time recruits. You HAVE to be careful, on every point. But there were loose ends left hanging all over the place. So, Arizona basketball got a rep--unfairly, unearned, but still closer scrutiny.

Some of the most corrupt people in this world are the ones we'd never notice, because they make sure we don't. You surround yourself with people who run a tight ship, and Arizona would be as protected by the NCAA from recruiting scandals as any of the blue bloods like Kansas, UNC, etc. are now.

It's not that our program is "dirty" or "clean." It's that the program doesn't practice the standards it used to with respect for the NCAA rules, regardless of our opinion of them. People higher and higher up in this Arizona AD are leaving messes in their wake nobody is pushing to clean up.

[PHXCATS]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

Standards have fallen across the board. But this sloppiness is just the latest and nearest byproduct of the local malaise that has hit our program several times going back decades.

Honestly, if Jim Storey really knew how to run a recruiting showcase, this thread wouldn't exist. But he got close enough to Lute to gain his implicit trust--enough to let said recruits eat pizza and Eegee's in the Eddie Lynch Pavilion in 2007. So, Arizona basketball got a rep--unfairly, unearned, but still closer scrutiny.

Some of the most corrupt people in this world are the ones we'd never notice, because they make sure we don't. You surround yourself with people who run a tight ship, and Arizona would be as protected by the NCAA from recruiting scandals as any of the blue bloods like Kansas, UNC, etc. are now.

It's not that our program is "dirty" or "clean." It's that the program doesn't practice the standards it used to with respect for the NCAA rules, regardless of our opinion of them. People higher and higher up in this Arizona AD are leaving messes in their wake nobody is pushing to clean up.

1) Can you give some examples of the sloppiness besides the Phelps thing?
2) The Storey thing has absolutely no correlation with the FBI

[catgrad97]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

Standards have fallen across the board. But this sloppiness is just the latest and nearest byproduct of the local malaise that has hit our program several times going back decades.

Honestly, if Jim Storey really knew how to run a recruiting showcase, this thread wouldn't exist. But he got close enough to Lute to gain his implicit trust--enough to let said recruits eat pizza and Eegee's in the Eddie Lynch Pavilion in 2007. So, Arizona basketball got a rep--unfairly, unearned, but still closer scrutiny.

Some of the most corrupt people in this world are the ones we'd never notice, because they make sure we don't. You surround yourself with people who run a tight ship, and Arizona would be as protected by the NCAA from recruiting scandals as any of the blue bloods like Kansas, UNC, etc. are now.

It's not that our program is "dirty" or "clean." It's that the program doesn't practice the standards it used to with respect for the NCAA rules, regardless of our opinion of them. People higher and higher up in this Arizona AD are leaving messes in their wake nobody is pushing to clean up.

1) Can you give some examples of the sloppiness besides the Phelps thing?
2) The Storey thing has absolutely no correlation with the FBI

1) No. If you weren't such an ass on these boards, I might feel differently enough to relate my experiences to you in person. But you are, so I won't.
2) Are you dense? Book was AT the Storey thing. I helped drive his AAU team to the airport in '07! You'd better believe the FBI has a record of this that the NCAA shared. If you don't, you're as sloppy in your understanding as Storey was, if not more.

[PHXCATS]

1) Cool bro, you are full of shit and proved it. You dont know stuff but just talk like you do. I knew you were full of it
2) This is the FBI bro, do you really think they only looked at Book and arrested him because he was this event? Get real dude, oh forgot for 20 seconds you werent full of shit. The NCAA is going to look at every school mentioned by the FBI, there is no doubt about it. So yeah we would be here regardless

[Newportcat]

You guys are going to cause me to start drinking even earlier in the morning.

Chi, unfortunately given the current state of Arizona basketball all of us

[Newportcat]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

I don't think Heeke is sloppy, he is just a fucking moron and in WAY over his head. Funny, how I have heard so much negative shit on him from so many people last two weeks.

[catgrad97]

Newport, people who are in over their heads often end up making a mess.

1) Cool bro, you are full of shit and proved it. You dont know stuff but just talk like you do. I knew you were full of it
2) This is the FBI bro, do you really think they only looked at Book and arrested him because he was this event? Get real dude, oh forgot for 20 seconds you werent full of shit

1) You can "believe" whatever you want. I've corroborated this with everybody from GOAZCATS who still posts here now. I have Storey's personal apology via PM for how it went down. The only who is "full of it" on this topic is you.
2) The FBI has EVERYTHING the NCAA has on Book, Phelps, Pasternack etc. So, yeah, I'm really saying "they only looked at Book and arrested him because he was this event." You think I don't read this thread, "bro"? Or did you forget that for more than 20 seconds?

A LOT of people associated with this program have been sloppy about respect for the rules. This is not a new problem. Storey's example just opened up the program to closer scrutiny nationally, which was the only point I was making. Your conclusions are out of left field and don't follow anything I posted at all, Machina.

[Newportcat]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

Standards have fallen across the board. But this sloppiness is just the latest and nearest byproduct of the local malaise that has hit our program several times going back decades.

Honestly, if Jim Storey really knew how to run a recruiting showcase, this thread wouldn't exist. But he got close enough to Lute to gain his implicit trust--enough to let said recruits eat pizza and Eegee's in the Eddie Lynch Pavilion in 2007. He wasn't careful.

This was a big time program hosting big time recruits. You HAVE to be careful, on every point. But there were loose ends left hanging all over the place. So, Arizona basketball got a rep--unfairly, unearned, but still closer scrutiny.

Some of the most corrupt people in this world are the ones we'd never notice, because they make sure we don't. You surround yourself with people who run a tight ship, and Arizona would be as protected by the NCAA from recruiting scandals as any of the blue bloods like Kansas, UNC, etc. are now.

It's not that our program is "dirty" or "clean." It's that the program doesn't practice the standards it used to with respect for the NCAA rules, regardless of our opinion of them. People higher and higher up in this Arizona AD are leaving messes in their wake nobody is pushing to clean up.

This is totally true. When PayPal Cal went to Kentucky, they forced him to change because they know how to run shit. Lute got sloppy in the end. Miller was good but then got sloppy as well especially with Book.

This is why I no longer feel like Miller got screwed in all this. He made his bed especially by having Book on his staff for so long. While the rules are stupid, you have to be smart/disciplined about getting around them especially at a place like Arizona.

Fucking Heeke is so in over his head now its a joke and the Davis family has way too much power as well. Always been a challenge at Arizona in terms of Alums. We only have a few alums who give lots of money so they get tons of power/sway. Candidly its one of the things I love about it as unlike other schools, you can gain tons of power at Arizona quickly if you donate decent amounts of money. Shit like that doesn't fly at UCLA, USC, Stanford, etc. Arizona though, you give a good amount of money, you can consolidate power quickly. Give me another 10-15 years and when I am running this shit, things will be very different.

Just so I am completely transparent with everyone here, my goal is to make a lot of money in real estate and then give most of it back to U of A so I can have a direct hand in helping shit run the right way with one of the things I love most in life which is U of A athletics and the business school. Also make sure that when we need to pay guys, we do it correctly and are not sloppy.

Candidly, I look forward to the day when we can just talk about basketball related things

[Newportcat]

Newport, people who are in over their heads often end up making a mess.

Very true, Heeke is a sloppy moron.

[catgrad97]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

Standards have fallen across the board. But this sloppiness is just the latest and nearest byproduct of the local malaise that has hit our program several times going back decades.

Honestly, if Jim Storey really knew how to run a recruiting showcase, this thread wouldn't exist. But he got close enough to Lute to gain his implicit trust--enough to let said recruits eat pizza and Eegee's in the Eddie Lynch Pavilion in 2007. He wasn't careful.

This was a big time program hosting big time recruits. You HAVE to be careful, on every point. But there were loose ends left hanging all over the place. So, Arizona basketball got a rep--unfairly, unearned, but still closer scrutiny.

Some of the most corrupt people in this world are the ones we'd never notice, because they make sure we don't. You surround yourself with people who run a tight ship, and Arizona would be as protected by the NCAA from recruiting scandals as any of the blue bloods like Kansas, UNC, etc. are now.

It's not that our program is "dirty" or "clean." It's that the program doesn't practice the standards it used to with respect for the NCAA rules, regardless of our opinion of them. People higher and higher up in this Arizona AD are leaving messes in their wake nobody is pushing to clean up.

This is totally true. When PayPal Cal went to Kentucky, they forced him to change because they know how to run shit. Lute got sloppy in the end. Miller was good but then got sloppy as well especially with Book.

This is why I no longer feel like Miller got screwed in all this. He made his bed especially by having Book on his staff for so long. While the rules are stupid, you have to be smart/disciplined about getting around them especially at a place like Arizona.

Fucking Heeke is so in over his head now its a joke and the Davis family has way too much power as well. Always been a challenge at Arizona in terms of Alums. We only have a few alums who give lots of money so they get tons of power/sway. Candidly its one of the things I love about it as unlike other schools, you can gain tons of power at Arizona quickly if you donate decent amounts of money. Shit like that doesn't fly at UCLA, USC, Stanford, etc. Arizona though, you give a good amount of money, you can consolidate power quickly. Give me another 10-15 years and when I am running this shit, things will be very different.

Candidly, I look forward to the day when we can just talk about basketball related things

Me too, man. But with social media continuing to eat permanently away at our zones of privacy, I fear that may never be possible again. Best I think we can hope for is for somebody high up at UNC or Duke to turn those programs over and level the playing field somewhat.

You are dead right about the boosters. If players like Khalil Tate truly have enough power to decide who coaches the football program, then the top five boosters are going to completely own this AD after it gets through paying off Rich Rod--especially if/when Miller goes elsewhere. The million-dollar debts in coaches' buyouts and infrastructure upgrades wasn't an Arizona problem. At least, it wasn't before last year.

But hey, you don't want the one percent to be a problem in "amateur" sports, you make deals to enrich the whole school--and you advocate for conference commissioners, presidents etc. who do the same thing.

I love Book as a person, but Miller honestly should have shown him the door after his first confirmed leak to PGU.

[MC1983]

Book for sure is a moron but this topic on sloppy?? Since when in all of history has the FBI got involved with college basketball? If the FBI never did what they did would the NCAA have ever found any of this? Most likely not. Not sure if it was sloppy but more like never expecting the unexpected.

[Newportcat]

The "sloppy" standard is my view on why UNC didn't get in the trouble it deserved, and probably never will.

The Tar Heel AD right now is like Harvey Keitel in Pulp Fiction. He knows how to clean up quietly.

Yeah our AD is the sloppiest of sloppy.

Standards have fallen across the board. But this sloppiness is just the latest and nearest byproduct of the local malaise that has hit our program several times going back decades.

Honestly, if Jim Storey really knew how to run a recruiting showcase, this thread wouldn't exist. But he got close enough to Lute to gain his implicit trust--enough to let said recruits eat pizza and Eegee's in the Eddie Lynch Pavilion in 2007. He wasn't careful.

This was a big time program hosting big time recruits. You HAVE to be careful, on every point. But there were loose ends left hanging all over the place. So, Arizona basketball got a rep--unfairly, unearned, but still closer scrutiny.

Some of the most corrupt people in this world are the ones we'd never notice, because they make sure we don't. You surround yourself with people who run a tight ship, and Arizona would be as protected by the NCAA from recruiting scandals as any of the blue bloods like Kansas, UNC, etc. are now.

It's not that our program is "dirty" or "clean." It's that the program doesn't practice the standards it used to with respect for the NCAA rules, regardless of our opinion of them. People higher and higher up in this Arizona AD are leaving messes in their wake nobody is pushing to clean up.

This is totally true. When PayPal Cal went to Kentucky, they forced him to change because they know how to run shit. Lute got sloppy in the end. Miller was good but then got sloppy as well especially with Book.

This is why I no longer feel like Miller got screwed in all this. He made his bed especially by having Book on his staff for so long. While the rules are stupid, you have to be smart/disciplined about getting around them especially at a place like Arizona.

Fucking Heeke is so in over his head now its a joke and the Davis family has way too much power as well. Always been a challenge at Arizona in terms of Alums. We only have a few alums who give lots of money so they get tons of power/sway. Candidly its one of the things I love about it as unlike other schools, you can gain tons of power at Arizona quickly if you donate decent amounts of money. Shit like that doesn't fly at UCLA, USC, Stanford, etc. Arizona though, you give a good amount of money, you can consolidate power quickly. Give me another 10-15 years and when I am running this shit, things will be very different.

Candidly, I look forward to the day when we can just talk about basketball related things

Me too, man. But with social media continuing to eat permanently away at our zones of privacy, I fear that may never be possible again. Best I think we can hope for is for somebody high up at UNC or Duke to turn those programs over and level the playing field somewhat.

You are dead right about the boosters. If players like Khalil Tate truly have enough power to decide who coaches the football program, then the top five boosters are going to completely own this AD after it gets through paying off Rich Rod--especially if/when Miller goes elsewhere. The million-dollar debts in coaches' buyouts and infrastructure upgrades wasn't an Arizona problem. At least, it wasn't before last year.

But hey, you don't want the one percent to be a problem in "amateur" sports, you make deals to enrich the whole school--and you advocate for conference commissioners, presidents etc. who do the same thing.

I love Book as a person, but Miller honestly should have shown him the door after his first confirmed leak to PGU.

Totally agree with everything you said except I am trying to be a One Percenter so I control or at least influence this shit! My attitude is this, I can fight it as much as I want, but I love Arizona athletics. I just do. So I am going to get rich and then donate a ton and control things. I want the potential AD coming to my house to kiss the ring and get vetted before he gets hired. I want an AD emailing or calling me to say "Hey, we are going to fire XYZ, what do you think". I do not want to leave it up to non-alums to run shit. Robbins, Heeke, Miller, all non alums who are looking out for themselves. They say they care, but in the end they really do not care as much as we all do. Thats the problem with your logic. Those conference commissioners, presidents care is different. My care is much less self serving because its for the good of the program. Their care is about their jobs.

Nice part of Arizona, is it does not take a ton to be a big alum with power.

[catgrad97]

If this is the way the game is played, we could totally team up to achieve the same goal. My problem is that I have always put fairness and other people first, which means I don't have much in terms of money.

Hence my problem. Because if it were up to me, the Arizona AD would be totally autonomous and be staffed by people who are the best at their jobs--not the ones who want to protect them the most.

Trouble is, I'm not sure Arizona got either quality in abundance with Heeke. You need a strong backbone of support if you're going to recruit your ass off like Miller does and devote the time you need to make these recruits NBA-ready. You can't be looking over your shoulder in worry over what your boss is going to do from day to day.

[Postmaster]

Was Book an AAU coach during Pizza Gate?

[catgrad97]

Was Book an AAU coach during Pizza Gate?

Yes. Head coach of the New York Gauchos, with Kemba Walker, in 2007.

[SabinoDrifter]

I know Heeke is drawing a lot of ire from the board, but Byrne sure jumped at the Bama opportunity in the nick of time.

[catgrad97]

I know Heeke is drawing a lot of ire from the board, but Byrne sure jumped at the Bama opportunity in the nick of time.

No kidding. Talk about sloppy. Byrne made some good hires upfront, then he ignored the reports of the problems that snowballed right up to his desk before he left.

That whole mess was left for Heeke--who probably knew very little about the details before he took the job, to be fair.

[dmjcat]

UCLA believes they have no issue with Shareef:

https://247sports.com/college/ucla/Arti ... 129108436/" target="_blank

Last week it was revealed that Wildcat assistant coach Mark Phelps was suspended by the University of Arizona without a public explanation. Various news agencies reported Phelps was accused of an NCAA violation regarding O'Neal's high school transcripts.

UCLA, however, according to sources, was aware of potential discrepancies with O'Neal's transcript and was transparent about it with the NCAA. O'Neal, then, completed what was needed academically for the NCAA to clear him to sign a National Letter of Intent.

It was that process that kept O'Neal from signing in the April Signing Period and delaying his UCLA admission until August.

[PHXCATS]

There are three possibilities with Phelps
1) He did something against U of A rules that are not NCAA Violations and has been told he needs to be on top of things and wasnt
2) The lawyers doing internal investigation found something
3) Heeke has the same information as the NCAA but knows Phelps committed a violation that the NCAA has not yet completed their investigation on.

3 is really hard to believe given the time period

Heeke is not going to risk a lawsuit and neither are U of A's lawyers or the third party lawyers when there is so much else going on now

[CalStateTempe]

I’ll never be a 1%’r but I’ll sure as hell donate to Newport’s war chest.

Dude knows what’s he’s talking about regarding how this shit is run and is more personally invested then any of the bean counters in the AD.

Lol “kiss the ring AD bitch”

[Spaceman Spiff]

UCLA believes they have no issue with Shareef:

https://247sports.com/college/ucla/Arti ... 129108436/" target="_blank

Last week it was revealed that Wildcat assistant coach Mark Phelps was suspended by the University of Arizona without a public explanation. Various news agencies reported Phelps was accused of an NCAA violation regarding O'Neal's high school transcripts.

UCLA, however, according to sources, was aware of potential discrepancies with O'Neal's transcript and was transparent about it with the NCAA. O'Neal, then, completed what was needed academically for the NCAA to clear him to sign a National Letter of Intent.

It was that process that kept O'Neal from signing in the April Signing Period and delaying his UCLA admission until August.

This is one of the glaring unanswered questions for me with Phelps's firing. If the issue was enough that Shareef could resolve it and maintain eligibility, it does not sound particularly devastating. Yet, it cost Phelps his job.

[PHXCATS]

UCLA believes they have no issue with Shareef:

https://247sports.com/college/ucla/Arti ... 129108436/" target="_blank

Last week it was revealed that Wildcat assistant coach Mark Phelps was suspended by the University of Arizona without a public explanation. Various news agencies reported Phelps was accused of an NCAA violation regarding O'Neal's high school transcripts.

UCLA, however, according to sources, was aware of potential discrepancies with O'Neal's transcript and was transparent about it with the NCAA. O'Neal, then, completed what was needed academically for the NCAA to clear him to sign a National Letter of Intent.

It was that process that kept O'Neal from signing in the April Signing Period and delaying his UCLA admission until August.

This is one of the glaring unanswered questions for me with Phelps's firing. If the issue was enough that Shareef could resolve it and maintain eligibility, it does not sound particularly devastating. Yet, it cost Phelps his job.

Thats why I think it is internal (Arizona) rules or policy he broke and he already was not trusted by Heeke due to the Pinder thing

[Gladiator Cat]

All of this arguing and bickering back and forth as if the debate will ever change even one dynamic of a festering dishonest boil that has been a giant lie for decades in the college sports community, all in the name of fandom, overpaid used car salesmen coaches, school ticket sales, as well as fake and phony gamesmanship, and greed.

What an embarrassing confluence of intellectually embarrassing BS we feed our ourselves, and our children and allow them to participate in a grand sports scale lie, all for fake amateur sportsmanship, fake amautre value and hidden dirty profits and fake amateur prestige at any cost.

Does any freaking adult with two brain-cells to rub together actually think that Sean Miller and his many assistants, over his tenure here at Arizona was actually completely clean, and adhered to the 100% letter of the law encompassing real amateur athletic status as he was reeling in numerous #1 nationally ranked recruiting classes to a crappy little town named Tucson and a school named the University of Arizona.

Good god, please tell me this is not the all consuming indoctrinated group-think still prevailing in 2019 just so an adult can get their weekly entertainment fix at all costs.

Stop making excuses for a bunch of over-paid, greedy jackasses that call themselves coaches and who by all accounts thought they were effectively untouchable, not to mention stunningly grossly and mind-numbingly stupid to have had open conversations on the most widely acknowledged recording devices, (phone) known to man in this day and age.

Its time to admit that the greedy, hubris filled coaches at your school were caught red-handed conversing about clearly illegal activity that, whether proven to have actually resulted in paying players, still implicates them by phone recordings multiple times of considering it and that shady, illicit, and illegal activity was clearly considered on some level with-in the recruiting structure, and well entrenched with-in the coaching cell on some level.

Sorry folks, someones going to have to answer for the train coming off the tracks. And it all starts at the top! Its long past time for some folks to start looking in the mirror as the cascading excuses for wrong doing are steadily losing staying power.

[CalStateTempe]

I don’t think Miller is “clean” any more than I don’t think K, Izzy, Cal, Roy, Hell even saint Lute, and in and on and on for the top 150-200 programs are clean.

I also don’t live in fantasy land.

In all professions, there are two sets of rules, the codes of conduct that are standard for the profession and what they call in academia the “hidden curriculum”, the unspoken mores and behaviors that must be observed and learned to navigate the murkiness and become successful.

GC, you and your fandom are complicit in this as well because you want wins, we all do, and so it’s up to the coaches to do what is necessary to manufacture those wins. THOSE are the true rules and so I don’t fault Miller one bit for trying to win in this environment. Where I do fault him is in keeping book on the first leak “loose lips sink ships” among other personnel mistakes. Perhaps miller met his peter principal and just couldn’t play the game behind the game to the degree necessary to win big like Roy K Izzo etc etc.

‘Dems the breaks.

[pc in NM]

In all professions, there are two sets of rules, the codes of conduct that are standard for the profession and what they call in academia the “hidden curriculum”, the unspoken mores and behaviors that must be observed and learned to navigate the murkiness and become successful.

This is pure unadulterated bs....

I'm sure that there are corrupt practitioners across the board in many professions - and many nof those get caught and justifiably prosecuted.

And, I myself am pretty cynical about corruption in America - look at our president....

But, you are unfamiliar with most professions and professionals, friend.

[CalStateTempe]

In all professions, there are two sets of rules, the codes of conduct that are standard for the profession and what they call in academia the “hidden curriculum”, the unspoken mores and behaviors that must be observed and learned to navigate the murkiness and become successful.

This is pure unadulterated bs....

I'm sure that there are corrupt practitioners across the board in many professions - and many nof those get caught and justifiably prosecuted.

And, I myself am pretty cynical about corruption in America - look at our president....

But, you are unfamiliar with most professions and professionals, friend.

I never said these rules or practioners are corrupt or even illegal. But you have to know how to blame the game to get ahead.

When I was considering academia my mentor, who was the top of the field, ( I’m talking text book writing emeritus international consultant level) told me to make it at the big boys (Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, Hopkins) you had have two out of the following three qualities: smarter/quicker than the rest, willing to outwork the rest, or just be protective/selfish with time/more cutthroat than the rest. He was clearly the first two and incredibly generous with his time and knowledge to this mentees.

For those that are cutthroat, they can be dicks, but they still did everything by the rules, but to think that there isn’t some form of gamesmenship to professional advancement, to stack the deck in your favor if you will, is obtuse.

And your last statement is categorically false, friend.

[CalStateTempe]

There are very legal and above board ways to stack the deck, which probably don’t apply in the setting of our beloved bb team.

[Jefe]

If the FBI never did what they did would the NCAA have ever found any of this?

Interesting topic. If this has been going on since the Wooden days, how in the world did they not know? Truly inept or turned a blind eye?

[Gladiator Cat]

CalStateTempe,

I can't disagree with you on any level. Everything you've written is technically correct.

Hell, even your statement that I'm complicit in this BS is correct, or it was years ago. Those days are gone now, for the most part.

I guess I'm just sick of this disgusting shallow thought-group that hope to shield and protect Miller at every turn from this fake and phony school/coaching sports paradigm that fans choose to live with-in, knowing full well it is all a fucking lie of deceit and corruption from top to bottom, every day, year after year.

All of it is a freaking disgusting lie just for an high!

And the money and effort to facilitate, sustain and promote this putrid mismanagement of funds is an even greater embarrassment to rational and somewhat logical working people everywhere. That is, to those folks who don't have the advantage of being lavished with stupefied wealth for low level entertainment.

Unbelievably we humans will allow any rapasious crap to consume our lives..........even so called coaches being paid 4 Million dollars a years to star in something as totally and completely meaningless to the human race as college basketball or any other.......take your pick.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[CalStateTempe]

CalStateTempe,

I can't disagree with you on any level. Everything you've written is technically correct.

Hell, even your statement that I'm complicit in this BS is correct, or it was years ago. Those days are gone now, for the most part.

I guess I'm just sick of this disgusting shallow thought-group that hope to shield and protect Miller at every turn from this fake and phony school/coaching sports paradigm that fans choose to live with-in, knowing full well it is all a fucking lie of deceit and corruption from top to bottom, every day, year after year.

All of it is a freaking disgusting lie just for an high!

And the money and effort to facilitate, sustain and promote this putrid mismanagement of funds is an even greater embarrassment to rational and somewhat logical working people everywhere. That is, to those folks who don't have the advantage of being lavished with stupefied wealth for low level entertainment.

Unbelievably we humans will allow any rapasious crap to consume our lives..........even so called coaches being paid 4 Million dollars a years to star in something as totally and completely meaningless to the human race as college basketball or any other.......take your pick.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Hi GC

You as well and we probably agree on more regarding the death of our program or the curtain being pulled back than disagree. I love sports but at some point it’s entertainment, the high that you so well describe above.

[pc in NM]

In all professions, there are two sets of rules, the codes of conduct that are standard for the profession and what they call in academia the “hidden curriculum”, the unspoken mores and behaviors that must be observed and learned to navigate the murkiness and become successful.

This is pure unadulterated bs....

I'm sure that there are corrupt practitioners across the board in many professions - and many nof those get caught and justifiably prosecuted.

And, I myself am pretty cynical about corruption in America - look at our president....

But, you are unfamiliar with most professions and professionals, friend.

I never said these rules or practioners are corrupt or even illegal. But you have to know how to blame the game to get ahead.

When I was considering academia my mentor, who was the top of the field, ( I’m talking text book writing emeritus international consultant level) told me to make it at the big boys (Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, Hopkins) you had have two out of the following three qualities: smarter/quicker than the rest, willing to outwork the rest, or just be protective/selfish with time/more cutthroat than the rest. He was clearly the first two and incredibly generous with his time and knowledge to this mentees.

For those that are cutthroat, they can be dicks, but they still did everything by the rules, but to think that there isn’t some form of gamesmenship to professional advancement, to stack the deck in your favor if you will, is obtuse.

And your last statement is categorically false, friend.

I accept your clarification, and see that I misinterpreted you as supporting the “everybody does it” meme....

Thanks for the response!

[Newportcat]

If this is the way the game is played, we could totally team up to achieve the same goal. My problem is that I have always put fairness and other people first, which means I don't have much in terms of money.

Hence my problem. Because if it were up to me, the Arizona AD would be totally autonomous and be staffed by people who are the best at their jobs--not the ones who want to protect them the most.

Trouble is, I'm not sure Arizona got either quality in abundance with Heeke. You need a strong backbone of support if you're going to recruit your ass off like Miller does and devote the time you need to make these recruits NBA-ready. You can't be looking over your shoulder in worry over what your boss is going to do from day to day.

Trust me, I make no decision in a Vaccum. I will have an informal board of directors with people like yourself, Chicat, 97Cats and CalStateTempe. And of course Machina...JK! No group think though and I believe in brutal honesty

I believe in fairness and putting other people first too and candidly one of the biggest reasons why I have been successful so far. I treat my investors dollars as if they were my own. I have had one deal lose money and I wrote all my investors personal checks to make up the difference in the money they lost. Could never live with myself otherwise. This is for a different discussion but creating wealth is not about being unfair or selfish, in my experience quite the opposite. Creating wealth is about figuring out ways to take $1 and turn it into $10. Easiest way you do that is by creating a tremendous amount of value for someone else that allows you to take ownership in something that far exceeds your initial investment. Its why 99% of people who have a salary, never create wealth. Its just not possible

Back on topic, the way the Regents are, no Arizona AD will be totally autonomous. No one is really totally autonomous in a government setting like this. Everyone has to answer to someone else and its the way it should be. The major difference here is that the athletic department is a quasi business reporting to a government entity which creates tremendous issues. Same problem with NCAA. Its a fucked up system as it creates these structural issues. Our athletic department reports to the Regents who provide basically no money to our athletic department. So then people who do provide money to our athletic department can get unobstructed power in many ways. And the regents get power when they shouldn't have it at all because they don't own the business or even invest in the business.

No different then NCAA no earning Billions from college basketball but running an antiquated system where the people producing the product are not paid for it. Its bound to fail.

Arizona got a guy in Heeke who is a marginal AD and threw him into the lions den given all the crap we have had. No AD could probably do a good job but a marginal one, zero chance