Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:44 am

Interesting. Wonder if there was any specificity about what the recordings were. Given that Miller is an out of state witness, I'd pretty much assume that there isn't much to be afraid of in terms of the potential changing of the judge's mind.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:46 am

And this act of the circus comes to a close. Hope y’all enjoyed the show.

NYCat · Post by **NYCat** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:58 am

NYCat wrote:

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:03 am

YoDeFoe wrote:And this act of the circus comes to a close. Hope y’all enjoyed the show.

Sorta. It's not really over until ESPN refrains from using phrases like "FBI scandal" and "allegations of NCAA violations" in their coverage of AZ/Miller. If that continues, public opinion remains fixated on a fictional instance of wrongdoing.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:05 am

Even that tweet is bullshit. Miller paid his players??? No, if any payments were made they were made by shoe companies. The whole inference is bullshit.

You could argue that coaches may know of shoe companies making payments to players they're recruiting. But to say a coach paid his players is a flat out lie.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:12 am

Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:And this act of the circus comes to a close. Hope y’all enjoyed the show.
Sorta. It's not really over until ESPN refrains from using phrases like "FBI scandal" and "allegations of NCAA violations" in their coverage of AZ/Miller. If that continues, public opinion remains fixated on a fictional instance of wrongdoing.

It's curious that "public opinion" as reported by ESPN is clearly "Miller cheated" while the top recruits in the country and their families are firmly in the circle that Miller is clean.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 9:33 am

zonagrad wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:And this act of the circus comes to a close. Hope y’all enjoyed the show.
Sorta. It's not really over until ESPN refrains from using phrases like "FBI scandal" and "allegations of NCAA violations" in their coverage of AZ/Miller. If that continues, public opinion remains fixated on a fictional instance of wrongdoing.
It's curious that "public opinion" as reported by ESPN is clearly "Miller cheated" while the top recruits in the country and their families are firmly in the circle that Miller is clean.

I find that interesting too. Even as the "Miller cheated" narrative persists -- like a zombie fart -- top players are undeterred. This only affected our '18 class.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:21 am

NYCat wrote:
NYCat wrote:

Defense attorney Steve Haney said in this morning’s hearing: “The evidence establishes very clearly that Sean Miller is paying players at Arizona.”

Where's the beef? What evidence??

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:23 am

zonagrad wrote:Even that tweet is bullshit. Miller paid his players??? No, if any payments were made they were made by shoe companies. The whole inference is bullshit.

You could argue that coaches may know of shoe companies making payments to players they're recruiting. But to say a coach paid his players is a flat out lie.

It is more complicated then just shoe companies paying players and Sean Miller definitely knew shoe companies were paying players. Sean is a control freak and knows everything going on.

Did Sean Miller hand an envelope of his personal cash to a player...No, you are totally right

Did Sean Miller know we were paying certain players and not just from Shoe Company money, of course he did

The whole fucking thing is stupid anyways as who cares if these players were paid. I find no fault in Miller playing the game.

Again remember AAU programs are non-profits. They can take outside "Donations" and not just from Shoe Companies. No different then college admissions scandal

As I said before, in the college admissions scandal, that bullshit Non-profit the Key Foundation advertised it made donations to Oakland Soldier and Houston Hoops. Not even hiding it.

If you could access the books and records on the Oakland Soldiers non-profit, you would be surprised what you found and especially who were making donations to it. It was not just shoe companies.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:24 am

Such bullshit Miller and this program have been dragged through

I hope someday the ad and miller sue for libel

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:31 am

CalStateTempe wrote:Such bullshit Miller and this program have been dragged through

I hope someday the ad and miller sue for libel

Won't happen because then Miller and Arizona are open to discovery docs, etc... by the party they're suing (ESPN, Yahoo, etc...).

But there's nothing prohibiting Miller from publicly chastising ESPN and their coverage of this whole saga. But I doubt that happens until the NCAA investigation is complete.

Right now, Miller is smart to offer zero comment. He's played his hand extremely well IMO. Despite all the criticism and second guessing, Miller has landed the top recruiting class in the country and appears to have righted the ship. In the immortal words of some of our better posters, "Miller is a witch!"

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:35 am

Newportcat wrote:
zonagrad wrote:Even that tweet is bullshit. Miller paid his players??? No, if any payments were made they were made by shoe companies. The whole inference is bullshit.

You could argue that coaches may know of shoe companies making payments to players they're recruiting. But to say a coach paid his players is a flat out lie.
It is more complicated then just shoe companies paying players and Sean Miller definitely knew shoe companies were paying players. Sean is a control freak and knows everything going on.

Did Sean Miller hand an envelope of his personal cash to a player...No, you are totally right

Did Sean Miller know we were paying certain players and not just from Shoe Company money, of course he did

The whole fucking thing is stupid anyways as who cares if these players were paid. I find no fault in Miller playing the game.

Again remember AAU programs are non-profits. They can take outside "Donations" and not just from Shoe Companies. No different then college admissions scandal

As I said before, in the college admissions scandal, that bullshit Non-profit the Key Foundation advertised it made donations to Oakland Soldier and Houston Hoops. Not even hiding it.

If you could access the books and records on the Oakland Soldiers non-profit, you would be surprised what you found and especially who were making donations to it. It was not just shoe companies.

No doubt.

Sean Miller plays the same exact game as Coach K, Roy Williams, Bill Self, etc... Money is being exchanged -- demanded by some families for compensation from third parties. It's the coach's job to recruit the player to his program. And coaches are smart not to involve themselves in the money stuff. Miller's mistake was getting on the phone with a guy trying to get into the money game himself and having an assistant like Book who was stupid enough to accept a small time bribe.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:37 am

I choose to believe CSM that he did not pay, condone any payments nor was he aware of any payments that, if disclosed, whould maake players ineligible under NCAA rules. Maybe I'm a fool, or merely naive, but I trust CSM. And, I think he's a great coach....

I expect that, at a minimum, from ANY coach at Arizona. Period.

If CSM has lied, then he deserves whatever negative consequences can be heaped upon him/.

And, I disrespect ANY fans that would condone such behavior. Do the right thing!!!

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:54 am

pc in NM wrote:I choose to believe CSM that he did not pay, condone any payments nor was he aware of any payments that, if disclosed, whould maake players ineligible under NCAA rules. Maybe I'm a fool, or merely naive, but I trust CSM. And, I think he's a great coach....

I expect that, at a minimum, from ANY coach at Arizona. Period.

If CSM has lied, then he deserves whatever negative consequences can be heaped upon him/.

And, I disrespect ANY fans that would condone such behavior. Do the right thing!!!

I'm not sure the line about condoning payments to players is particularly clear in modern recruiting. I would venture that if you recruit a top 100 player, you're condoning payment to at least some meaning of the word.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:01 am

Back to the defense attorney: What evidence is the attorney going to reveal? The wiretaps are covered by a gag order. Dude is talking out of his ass because he's not going to risk his law license / fine / jail time over this stunt. Can't wait for this trial to end.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:04 am

YoDeFoe wrote:Back to the defense attorney: What evidence is the attorney going to reveal? The wiretaps are covered by a gag order. Dude is talking out of his ass because he's not going to risk his law license / fine / jail time over this stunt. Can't wait for this trial to end.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:06 am

Yea the whole thing is such a smear campaign targeting very few coaches. ALL those top players got paid, wherever they went and that is what the attorney wanted to prove. The whole trial is a shame as well IMO. Those kids should be paid.

Now the rags are so bent on proving Miller was dirty they jump on anything to try and validate their stories. The bigger issue is college kids are and have been used by the cash machine, the NCAA. Miller knew what was going on just like coach K does. Such a joke of a period in college basketball

TheGreatCatsby · Post by **TheGreatCatsby** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:05 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:Back to the defense attorney: What evidence is the attorney going to reveal? The wiretaps are covered by a gag order. Dude is talking out of his ass because he's not going to risk his law license / fine / jail time over this stunt. Can't wait for this trial to end.

Pretty much. If you count the self serving testimony of the accused or their cronies, not sure what direct evidence the defense will have about "Sean Miller paying players at Arizona". Can't imagine anything in writing, no direct testimony except from the defendants, and all references to sealed FBI tapes isn't convincing. Maybe Schlabach will play his source's FBI tape from the audience

Also not sure what relevance "Sean Miller paying players at Arizona" has anything to do with Christian Dawkins' own acts of violating federal law.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:14 pm

azcat49 wrote:Yea the whole thing is such a smear campaign targeting very few coaches. ALL those top players got paid, wherever they went and that is what the attorney wanted to prove. The whole trial is a shame as well IMO. Those kids should be paid.

Now the rags are so bent on proving Miller was dirty they jump on anything to try and validate their stories. The bigger issue is college kids are and have been used by the cash machine, the NCAA. Miller knew what was going on just like coach K does. Such a joke of a period in college basketball

ESPN wants people to believe that Arizona HAS TO pay for players. If we don’t, we won’t get them.

Duke on the other hand doesn’t have to pay for players and never would. Those three top-10 recruits? They all turned down quarter million dollar handshakes from shady ass Sean Miller to play for the pure as the driven snow hall-of-famer Coach K.

ESPN needs you to believe that. Because when they pump a million dollars of advertising into making sure you watch a guy like Zion take on UNC, they don’t want you thinking that he’s throwing down slams for anything else but the love of the game and the opportunity to learn from a guy they’ve anointed as some kind of coaching god.

It’s all a fucking scam. Arizona is the patsy.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Apr 20, 2019 12:17 pm

Bingo. The Bristol college basketball marketing playbook, as concisely explained by Chicat in "Famous Jewish Sports Legends" leaflet form.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:16 am

pc in NM wrote:Do the right thing!!!

yeah! exactly! Do the right thing! Keep letting the ncaa make billions of dollars off of college sports while the athletes that bring in those billions don't get a fair share!

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:49 am

Chicat wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Yea the whole thing is such a smear campaign targeting very few coaches. ALL those top players got paid, wherever they went and that is what the attorney wanted to prove. The whole trial is a shame as well IMO. Those kids should be paid.

Now the rags are so bent on proving Miller was dirty they jump on anything to try and validate their stories. The bigger issue is college kids are and have been used by the cash machine, the NCAA. Miller knew what was going on just like coach K does. Such a joke of a period in college basketball
ESPN wants people to believe that Arizona HAS TO pay for players. If we don’t, we won’t get them.

Duke on the other hand doesn’t have to pay for players and never would. Those three top-10 recruits? They all turned down quarter million dollar handshakes from shady ass Sean Miller to play for the pure as the driven snow hall-of-famer Coach K.

ESPN needs you to believe that. Because when they pump a million dollars of advertising into making sure you watch a guy like Zion take on UNC, they don’t want you thinking that he’s throwing down slams for anything else but the love of the game and the opportunity to learn from a guy they’ve anointed as some kind of coaching god.

It’s all a fucking scam. Arizona is the patsy.

Please.

Its transparently obvious that ALL colleges DON't pay players. Do some? Probably. And, they are violating well-established rules; AND, when they do, the perpetrators (the only correct term!) KNOW they are violating rules.

IF Arizona pays players, THEN Arizona is gaining an unfair advantage over other teams. Period.

Saying that "everyone does it!" is a half-assed defense beneath the dignity of the University of Arizona, and more to be expected from Fat Nixon and his supporters....

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:53 am

PieceOfMeat wrote:
pc in NM wrote:Do the right thing!!!
yeah! exactly! Do the right thing! Keep letting the ncaa make billions of dollars off of college sports while the athletes that bring in those billions don't get a fair share!

I agree that there should be changes to the collegiate basketball system. However, clandestine participation in rules violations has nothing whatsoever to do with changing anything. D'uh!!!

BTW, maybe the NCAA and media make "billions", but college basketball coaches, schools, etc. make millions. If you're gonna point fingers at those who unduly benefit, point at all of them....

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:08 am

pc in NM wrote:
Chicat wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Yea the whole thing is such a smear campaign targeting very few coaches. ALL those top players got paid, wherever they went and that is what the attorney wanted to prove. The whole trial is a shame as well IMO. Those kids should be paid.

Now the rags are so bent on proving Miller was dirty they jump on anything to try and validate their stories. The bigger issue is college kids are and have been used by the cash machine, the NCAA. Miller knew what was going on just like coach K does. Such a joke of a period in college basketball
ESPN wants people to believe that Arizona HAS TO pay for players. If we don’t, we won’t get them.

Duke on the other hand doesn’t have to pay for players and never would. Those three top-10 recruits? They all turned down quarter million dollar handshakes from shady ass Sean Miller to play for the pure as the driven snow hall-of-famer Coach K.

ESPN needs you to believe that. Because when they pump a million dollars of advertising into making sure you watch a guy like Zion take on UNC, they don’t want you thinking that he’s throwing down slams for anything else but the love of the game and the opportunity to learn from a guy they’ve anointed as some kind of coaching god.

It’s all a fucking scam. Arizona is the patsy.
Please.

Its transparently obvious that ALL colleges DON't pay players. Do some? Probably. And, they are violating well-established rules; AND, when they do, the perpetrators (the only correct term!) KNOW they are violating rules.

IF Arizona pays players, THEN Arizona is gaining an unfair advantage over other teams. Period.

Saying that "everyone does it!" is a half-assed defense beneath the dignity of the University of Arizona, and more to be expected from Fat Nixon and his supporters....

Where did I say “everyone does it!”. I didn’t even insinuate that. I only talked about one team not named Arizona. And I don’t believe for a second that you’ve bought into this bullshit that Duke players don’t get impermissible benefits. I know you’re smarter than to have fallen for the very lie I actually described.

You should really stop putting words in my mouth, especially when they form the entire crux of your argument. It makes you look silly.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:49 am

I don’t think any universities “pay”players. The days of slush funds have been gone since the shoe companies stepped forward to do the heavy lifting. If you are a marquee program with league talent kids then these kids have known they will get theirs if desired.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:47 am

Chi dropping truth bombs

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:06 am

For the last fricken time in college basketball the schools aren't paying the players, the God damn shoe companies are. If you want to see where boosters and schools are actually culpable in paying someone move to the football board.

Also Chi nailed it.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:31 am

ChooChooCat wrote:For the last fricken time in college basketball the schools aren't paying the players, the God damn shoe companies are. If you want to see where boosters and schools are actually culpable in paying someone move to the football board.

Also Chi nailed it.

This is just not true. Now it does depend on the school as Arizona does get the benefit of being a marquee Nike program so nike has always had our back. Why do you think we renewed early on our shoe deal at a below market rate with Nike? Because in reality it’s not a below market rate for our basketball program.

Boosters and friends of the program do pay players and their parents via “donations” to AAU programs as well as providing parents jobs or houses or cash. Very true at Arizona that we do this.

Coach Cal has a crew of guys he has recruited over the years who do this for him. The story behind his nickname PayPal cal is actually pretty hilarious.

Arizona has a number of boosters who have been friends of the program for a long time.

Now for me, I could care less as I see no victim in all of this given how much money the players generate for our school and athletic department

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:43 am

Newportcat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:For the last fricken time in college basketball the schools aren't paying the players, the God damn shoe companies are. If you want to see where boosters and schools are actually culpable in paying someone move to the football board.

Also Chi nailed it.
This is just not true. Now it does depend on the school as Arizona does get the benefit of being a marquee Nike program so nike has always had our back. Why do you think we renewed early on our shoe deal at a below market rate with Nike? Because in reality it’s not a below market rate for our basketball program.

Boosters and friends of the program do pay players and their parents via “donations” to AAU programs as well as providing parents jobs or houses or cash. Very true at Arizona that we do this.

Coach Cal has a crew of guys he has recruited over the years who do this for him. The story behind his nickname PayPal cal is actually pretty hilarious.

Arizona has a number of boosters who have been friends of the program for a long time.

Now for me, I could care less as I see no victim in all of this given how much money the players generate for our school and athletic department

Lol give it up. Nike pays all the fucking bills, especially to the "AAU programs." I never said they weren't friends of the program.

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 4:06 pm

ChooChooCat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:For the last fricken time in college basketball the schools aren't paying the players, the God damn shoe companies are. If you want to see where boosters and schools are actually culpable in paying someone move to the football board.

Also Chi nailed it.
This is just not true. Now it does depend on the school as Arizona does get the benefit of being a marquee Nike program so nike has always had our back. Why do you think we renewed early on our shoe deal at a below market rate with Nike? Because in reality it’s not a below market rate for our basketball program.

Boosters and friends of the program do pay players and their parents via “donations” to AAU programs as well as providing parents jobs or houses or cash. Very true at Arizona that we do this.

Coach Cal has a crew of guys he has recruited over the years who do this for him. The story behind his nickname PayPal cal is actually pretty hilarious.

Arizona has a number of boosters who have been friends of the program for a long time.

Now for me, I could care less as I see no victim in all of this given how much money the players generate for our school and athletic department
Lol give it up. Nike pays all the fucking bills, especially to the "AAU programs." I never said they weren't friends of the program.

This is just factually not true and you need to stop saying it. Nike doesn’t pay all the fucking bills especially at Arizona and to AAU programs. Do they pay a lot yes of course but plenty of ways for recruits to get money and Arizona has been good at all those ways . Again it’s not just money it’s cars, housing, jobs, etc.

Why was the BS key foundation listing making donations to the Oakland Soldiers?

Again, how did Pasternack develop such a good relationship with Oakland Soldiers?

Choo, you know a lot but you clearly do not know everything on how the sausage is made

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Sun Apr 21, 2019 8:14 pm

Newportcat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:
Newportcat wrote:
ChooChooCat wrote:For the last fricken time in college basketball the schools aren't paying the players, the God damn shoe companies are. If you want to see where boosters and schools are actually culpable in paying someone move to the football board.

Also Chi nailed it.
This is just not true. Now it does depend on the school as Arizona does get the benefit of being a marquee Nike program so nike has always had our back. Why do you think we renewed early on our shoe deal at a below market rate with Nike? Because in reality it’s not a below market rate for our basketball program.

Boosters and friends of the program do pay players and their parents via “donations” to AAU programs as well as providing parents jobs or houses or cash. Very true at Arizona that we do this.

Coach Cal has a crew of guys he has recruited over the years who do this for him. The story behind his nickname PayPal cal is actually pretty hilarious.

Arizona has a number of boosters who have been friends of the program for a long time.

Now for me, I could care less as I see no victim in all of this given how much money the players generate for our school and athletic department
Lol give it up. Nike pays all the fucking bills, especially to the "AAU programs." I never said they weren't friends of the program.
This is just factually not true and you need to stop saying it. Nike doesn’t pay all the fucking bills especially at Arizona and to AAU programs. Do they pay a lot yes of course but plenty of ways for recruits to get money and Arizona has been good at all those ways . Again it’s not just money it’s cars, housing, jobs, etc.

Why was the BS key foundation listing making donations to the Oakland Soldiers?

Again, how did Pasternack develop such a good relationship with Oakland Soldiers?

Choo, you know a lot but you clearly do not know everything on how the sausage is made

Donnie, you're out of your element!

Newportcat · Post by **Newportcat** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 5:28 am

Indeed Donnie you are

wilbur1997 · Post by **wilbur1997** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:59 am

3 questions: 1) Anyone know which Twitter users to follow to get updates on the federal trial in New York today? 2) And anyone know what time the trial kicks off? 3) Anyone nervous?

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:16 am

wilbur1997 wrote:3 questions: 1) Anyone know which Twitter users to follow to get updates on the federal trial in New York today? 2) And anyone know what time the trial kicks off? 3) Anyone nervous?

There's always an element of risk for Arizona until it's over. At a bare minimum, the risk is the press salivating over every anti-Arizona/Miller tidbit that comes out.

That said, Miller not testifying takes a lot of the potential negatives away.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:48 am

Haney and Dawkins have proven to be liars and so full of shit that I am not worried at all.

What have we seen so far that worries anyone.

Alkins in some emails that never proved anything
Ayton mentioned but NCAA cleared him so if they go back on Ayton they admit they sucked at their job before
Pasternak from hearsay from Dawkins who has been full of shit

With the way Haney has leaked crap and his comments followed by the judge now allowing Miller to testify and then saying even if Miller paid players it is irrelevant, I would be shocked if the judge allowed Haney to mention Miller more than a time or two in court.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:55 am

wilbur1997 wrote:3 questions: 1) Anyone know which Twitter users to follow to get updates on the federal trial in New York today? 2) And anyone know what time the trial kicks off? 3) Anyone nervous?

Adam Zagoria has been following the trial and specifically hunting for Arizona connections, so if you want that you can find it.

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:26 am

YoDeFoe wrote:
wilbur1997 wrote:3 questions: 1) Anyone know which Twitter users to follow to get updates on the federal trial in New York today? 2) And anyone know what time the trial kicks off? 3) Anyone nervous?
Adam Zagoria has been following the trial and specifically hunting for Arizona connections, so if you want that you can find it.

Nobody would be covering the trial of Christian Dawkins if there wasn't the HOPE of trying to get some negative and sensational info on a high profile coach at a high profile program (Sean Miller/Arizona). Because the evidence is sealed, there's little hope of a reporter like Zagoria getting any thing of substance on Miller and Arizona unless it comes out in open court testimony. The government hasn't released any info and so every reporter is getting their material from the defense lawyer. And there's no way of any reporter knowing that the information they're being fed by lawyers like Haney is totally fabricated. But yet these reporters print it with very little context and paint Miller/Arizona as crooked. And there's no way to refute it. Reporters like Zagoria (and Schlabach before him) hide behind their attribution to "sources" which could be as reliable as your barista at Starbucks. But they print it with no consequences.

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:47 am

Sorry that I missed this, but what does Zagoria have against AZ?

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:05 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Sorry that I missed this, but what does Zagoria have against AZ?

IMO, it's just incompetent reporting to take anything a defense lawyer tells you and print it. But that's the only substance to their story that they know will garner any reading interest. The prosecution stating that the accused is guilty and the defense saying he isn't guilty isn't very exciting. But throw in the defense lawyer making claims irrelevant to the case that Sean Miller and Arizona pay players, and then you've got a juicy story that will get plenty of clicks.

I wonder if Zagoria, Schlabach or anyone else even cares if the accusations are true. My guess is they'll just say they attributed the accusations to "a source" or in the most recent case to the public comments in court from the defense attorney and call it a day. False information? What do they care?

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:07 am

zonagrad wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
I wonder if Zagoria, Schlabach or anyone else even cares if the accusations are true. My guess is they'll just say they attributed the accusations to "a source" or in the most recent case to the public comments in court from the defense attorney and call it a day. False information? What do they care?

Well, if there's no legal repercussion (as I believe there's supposed to be), then yeah, these guys wouldn't need to care. Just publish whatever, get those clicks.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:17 am

Beachcat97 wrote:Sorry that I missed this, but what does Zagoria have against AZ?

I don't think he does, it's just sensationalism, and we're the sensationalism target.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:30 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Sorry that I missed this, but what does Zagoria have against AZ?
I don't think he does, it's just sensationalism, and we're the sensationalism target.

That's seems right to me as well. We've become rocket fuel for this now smoldering fire - any amount of Arizona exposure in this case would create a big boom, and Zagoria (and other reporters) are just looking to bask in the glow.

Zagoria has become highly defensive on Twitter about how "out to get Arizona" he is, and I'm not sure he's being self aware about the role he's playing and the incentives that have led him down this path. As others have said: the "news" from this case is all coming from a defense attorney who has said that he's trying to garner sympathy for his client by dragging in high profile names (like Miller). The judge in turn has issued a gag order on release of evidence and swatted away the attorney's attempts to include Miller.

Zagoria then clearly isn't "just reporting the news" - he's acting as a megaphone for the defense, who clearly aren't acting with transparency and integrity as their top motivators. The prospect of an Arizona "boom" is a perverse incentive for Zagoria. Covering the leaks and bombastic accusations of the defense attorney has given him a taste of that boom and it seems clear he's hungry for more.

In that way, he's rooting for Arizona and Miller exposure - "out to get" Arizona basketball.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:03 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:Sorry that I missed this, but what does Zagoria have against AZ?
I don't think he does, it's just sensationalism, and we're the sensationalism target.
That's seems right to me as well. We've become rocket fuel for this now smoldering fire - any amount of Arizona exposure in this case would create a big boom, and Zagoria (and other reporters) are just looking to bask in the glow.

Zagoria has become highly defensive on Twitter about how "out to get Arizona" he is, and I'm not sure he's being self aware about the role he's playing and the incentives that have led him down this path. As others have said: the "news" from this case is all coming from a defense attorney who has said that he's trying to garner sympathy for his client by dragging in high profile names (like Miller). The judge in turn has issued a gag order on release of evidence and swatted away the attorney's attempts to include Miller.

Zagoria then clearly isn't "just reporting the news" - he's acting as a megaphone for the defense, who clearly aren't acting with transparency and integrity as their top motivators. The prospect of an Arizona "boom" is a perverse incentive for Zagoria. Covering the leaks and bombastic accusations of the defense attorney has given him a taste of that boom and it seems clear he's hungry for more.

In that way, he's rooting for Arizona and Miller exposure - "out to get" Arizona basketball.

You’ve nailed it.

Arizona is a name that’s just big enough to garner clicks & shares, but not so big that there would be a public outcry that might make the NCAA undertake changes that might limit the ability of these talking heads and “reporters” to reap the financial rewards of covering these so-called student athletes.

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:09 pm

Chicat wrote:
pc in NM wrote:
Chicat wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Yea the whole thing is such a smear campaign targeting very few coaches. ALL those top players got paid, wherever they went and that is what the attorney wanted to prove. The whole trial is a shame as well IMO. Those kids should be paid.

Now the rags are so bent on proving Miller was dirty they jump on anything to try and validate their stories. The bigger issue is college kids are and have been used by the cash machine, the NCAA. Miller knew what was going on just like coach K does. Such a joke of a period in college basketball
ESPN wants people to believe that Arizona HAS TO pay for players. If we don’t, we won’t get them.

Duke on the other hand doesn’t have to pay for players and never would. Those three top-10 recruits? They all turned down quarter million dollar handshakes from shady ass Sean Miller to play for the pure as the driven snow hall-of-famer Coach K.

ESPN needs you to believe that. Because when they pump a million dollars of advertising into making sure you watch a guy like Zion take on UNC, they don’t want you thinking that he’s throwing down slams for anything else but the love of the game and the opportunity to learn from a guy they’ve anointed as some kind of coaching god.

It’s all a fucking scam. Arizona is the patsy.
Please.

Its transparently obvious that ALL colleges DON't pay players. Do some? Probably. And, they are violating well-established rules; AND, when they do, the perpetrators (the only correct term!) KNOW they are violating rules.

IF Arizona pays players, THEN Arizona is gaining an unfair advantage over other teams. Period.

Saying that "everyone does it!" is a half-assed defense beneath the dignity of the University of Arizona, and more to be expected from Fat Nixon and his supporters....
Where did I say “everyone does it!”. I didn’t even insinuate that. I only talked about one team not named Arizona. And I don’t believe for a second that you’ve bought into this bullshit that Duke players don’t get impermissible benefits. I know you’re smarter than to have fallen for the very lie I actually described.

You should really stop putting words in my mouth, especially when they form the entire crux of your argument. It makes you look silly.

There were two posts that I was responding to - AZCAT49 said: "ALL those top players got paid, wherever they went"

And, I interpreted both you and he thought that the coaches in question were/are aware of that. And, that the payments from sources like shoe companies were paid on behalf of the colleges involved. So, that's where I said (awkwardly, I admit) "everyone does it".

So, I concede the rhetorical error you've pointed out; but I still think the general sense applies....

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:40 pm

Well my belief PC is that all those top 25 5 star kids could get paid by the shoe companies IF they wanted. Maybe it was not them but their AAU program or the coaches of the travel team or their guardians/parents but the money was there for them. I do think there isn’t a coach in college basketball that doesn’t know it exists. I also don’t think any coach “pays” or directs monies to players at a university level.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:10 pm

all i know, is that in the last 25 years, 95% of the kids in the top 25 got paid something to do something, and the next 26-50 and beyond participated when asked to the table too.

the parent-kid-family-handler-coach-etc. saying, "no thank you, next" to the extra benefits was/is about as common as a four leafed clover

Beachcat97 · Post by **Beachcat97** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 1:39 pm

97cats wrote:all i know, is that in the last 25 years, 95% of the kids in the top 25 got paid something to do something, and the next 26-50 and beyond participated when asked to the table too.

the parent-kid-family-handler-coach-etc. saying, "no thank you, next" to the extra benefits was/is about as common as a four leafed clover

We all understand that, 97. But there's gotta be a scapegoat. There's gotta be a public face to bear the collective (false) indignation directed at college hoops.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:29 pm

Yea his name is Dawkins and not Miller, Wade or any of the coaches. ESPIN needs to get that message but hey, ratings trump reality

zonagrad · Post by **zonagrad** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:08 pm

Under normal journalistic principles, a writer would go to extreme lengths to couch wild statements from a defense lawyer. A piece would indicate there is zero evidence and zero corroboration about the charges made by the defense lawyer. The reporter would state that the prosecution had made no affirmation of the statements. (As it is, the prosecution has been curiously silent about the case).

Many years ago, ESPN's standard of reporting required a 2nd or even 3rd level of confirmation from an unnamed source. Now it appears a single defense lawyer making a phone call to a reporter is the standard. The bar on responsible reporting certainly has been lowered.

ESPN can hide behind the veil of attribution. But when it's said and done, what then? If Miller hasn't done the things he's accused of and when the trial is over, will he unleash on ESPN and others?

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:34 pm

97cats wrote:all i know, is that in the last 25 years, 95% of the kids in the top 25 got paid something to do something, and the next 26-50 and beyond participated when asked to the table too.

the parent-kid-family-handler-coach-etc. saying, "no thank you, next" to the extra benefits was/is about as common as a four leafed clover

So, if a "parent-kid-family-handler-etc." accepted money, that, if disclosed, would constitute an NCAA violation, and therefore, make them ineligible under NCAA regulations. Correct?

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