Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:27 am

I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I disagree the FBI found no wrongdoing with Miller, Ayton or Alkins. The FBI doesn't clear people, they just don't charge them.

This doesn't change the thrust of what Arizona should be arguing to the NCAA, which is that any punishment should be based in evidence that proves wrongdoing.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:33 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I disagree the FBI found no wrongdoing with Miller, Ayton or Alkins. The FBI doesn't clear people, they just don't charge them.

This doesn't change the thrust of what Arizona should be arguing to the NCAA, which is that any punishment should be based in evidence that proves wrongdoing.

I don't know about Miller or Alkins, but I thought Ayton was cleared to play by the NCAA to play...not the FBI?

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:36 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote:I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I disagree the FBI found no wrongdoing with Miller, Ayton or Alkins. The FBI doesn't clear people, they just don't charge them.

This doesn't change the thrust of what Arizona should be arguing to the NCAA, which is that any punishment should be based in evidence that proves wrongdoing.

If you want to say word choice could be improved I am fine with that but here is what we know.

The FBI stated that they were looking for people who were defrauding the universities by making player ineligible, they found coaches and players who did that, and they interviewed and looked into Miller Ayton and Alkins and brought no charges. The FBI could have charged any of them for a NCAA violation as it would have defrauded Arizona. They did not

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:55 am

PHXCATS wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I disagree the FBI found no wrongdoing with Miller, Ayton or Alkins. The FBI doesn't clear people, they just don't charge them.

This doesn't change the thrust of what Arizona should be arguing to the NCAA, which is that any punishment should be based in evidence that proves wrongdoing.
If you want to say word choice could be improved I am fine with that but here is what we know.

The FBI stated that they were looking for people who were defrauding the universities by making player ineligible, they found coaches and players who did that, and they interviewed and looked into Miller Ayton and Alkins and brought no charges. The FBI could have charged any of them for a NCAA violation as it would have defrauded Arizona. They did not

I don't disagree with that. As I said, I think we need to start with the idea that we emphasize there is no proof of wrongdoing.

If we argue we did nothing wrong...well, I think it risks looking like we're delusional about what people are legit tied to. Ayton had his "handlers" referred to by Gassnola in the first trial. There's smoke around us.

We need to win on the idea that smoke should not = fire without more proof in the context of NCAA punishment.

prh · Post by **prh** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 12:32 pm

MountainCat wrote:
Spaceman Spiff wrote:I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but I disagree the FBI found no wrongdoing with Miller, Ayton or Alkins. The FBI doesn't clear people, they just don't charge them.

This doesn't change the thrust of what Arizona should be arguing to the NCAA, which is that any punishment should be based in evidence that proves wrongdoing.
I don't know about Miller or Alkins, but I thought Ayton was cleared to play by the NCAA to play...not the FBI?

He was, and he was investigated by the NCAA more than any player that year.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Jul 25, 2019 1:17 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:Was just having lunch with an older gentleman in the Bay - Cal alum, Arizona fan, well heeled and well connected - who balked at me saying Miller is fine.

“I know AG’s dad - Miller is audacious and aggressive.”

We got into the nitty gritty of the current allegations and he acknowledged they might not bear fruit (for the anti-Zona cops). But his point was “goddamn, y’all go hard and it’s not surprising you’re getting slapped.”

Not especially revelatory but maybe insightful. He had Pasternak’s cell and personal email and acknowledged that he envies, as a Cal fan, our ability to maneuver.

sorry, not sorry

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Sat Jul 27, 2019 8:21 am

Apparently the NBA thinks there might have been some prohibited inducements for kawhi to go to the clips.

It would be funny if they can't even play by the rules when they can pay a guy 50 mil a year.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 10:07 am

Bruce Pearl: 'Worst behind us' in NCAA investigation

Keep in mind that Auburn was way farther over the line than Arizona... in the scheme longer, took more money, and paid the parents of two recruits which cost them their eligibility (temporarily). Also, Pearl is a repeat offender who previously lied to the NCAA while being investigated for recruiting violations at Tennessee.

If Auburn is through the worst of it, I can't see a lot of pain inflicted on Arizona. Then again, this is likely coach-speak since you can't expect Pearl to say "lot of bad stuff coming our way!"

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:05 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:Bruce Pearl: 'Worst behind us' in NCAA investigation

Keep in mind that Auburn was way farther over the line than Arizona... in the scheme longer, took more money, and paid the parents of two recruits which cost them their eligibility (temporarily). Also, Pearl is a repeat offender who previously lied to the NCAA while being investigated for recruiting violations at Tennessee.

If Auburn is through the worst of it, I can't see a lot of pain inflicted on Arizona. Then again, this is likely coach-speak since you can't expect Pearl to say "lot of bad stuff coming our way!"

But in the battle or perception, AZ is the real black hat so not sure anything other schools might say means much

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 1:30 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:Bruce Pearl: 'Worst behind us' in NCAA investigation

Keep in mind that Auburn was way farther over the line than Arizona... in the scheme longer, took more money, and paid the parents of two recruits which cost them their eligibility (temporarily). Also, Pearl is a repeat offender who previously lied to the NCAA while being investigated for recruiting violations at Tennessee.

If Auburn is through the worst of it, I can't see a lot of pain inflicted on Arizona. Then again, this is likely coach-speak since you can't expect Pearl to say "lot of bad stuff coming our way!"

I'll wait and see. I doubt Pearl would ever say "we're f***ed" even if they were f***ed.

This is just new ground in a lot of ways. Selfishly, I hope Auburn gets off light because that helps us.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:54 pm

azcat49 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:Bruce Pearl: 'Worst behind us' in NCAA investigation

Keep in mind that Auburn was way farther over the line than Arizona... in the scheme longer, took more money, and paid the parents of two recruits which cost them their eligibility (temporarily). Also, Pearl is a repeat offender who previously lied to the NCAA while being investigated for recruiting violations at Tennessee.

If Auburn is through the worst of it, I can't see a lot of pain inflicted on Arizona. Then again, this is likely coach-speak since you can't expect Pearl to say "lot of bad stuff coming our way!"

But in the battle or perception, AZ is the real black hat so not sure anything other schools might say means much

I dont think so. I think local media says this and assu fans but nationally a lot of people see ESPN's story as what it was, total bullshit and nationally this FBI story is not a huge deal

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:09 pm

At the planetarium's 50th anniversary celebration for the moon landing, an astronomy grad student was explaining to a bunch of U of A undergrads how Sean Miller got caught paying a bunch of recruits. The students' jaws were agape as they absorbed the bad news about their basketball program. This is the new world we're in.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:48 pm

PHXCATS wrote:
azcat49 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:Bruce Pearl: 'Worst behind us' in NCAA investigation

Keep in mind that Auburn was way farther over the line than Arizona... in the scheme longer, took more money, and paid the parents of two recruits which cost them their eligibility (temporarily). Also, Pearl is a repeat offender who previously lied to the NCAA while being investigated for recruiting violations at Tennessee.

If Auburn is through the worst of it, I can't see a lot of pain inflicted on Arizona. Then again, this is likely coach-speak since you can't expect Pearl to say "lot of bad stuff coming our way!"

But in the battle or perception, AZ is the real black hat so not sure anything other schools might say means much
I dont think so. I think local media says this and assu fans but nationally a lot of people see ESPN's story as what it was, total bullshit and nationally this FBI story is not a huge deal

Maybe the educated fans but I have been all around this country this summer and whenever I had on my AZ gear I got hit with, “ you guys are going to get killed by the NCAA, will you survive”.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:08 pm

My experience too Azcat49 in NorCal

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:34 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:My experience too Azcat49 in NorCal

Well I live in the U.P. and wear Arizona gear quite a bit, I haven't been approached once about it.
We even talk to each other on the trail or at the beach or everywhere else.
Maybe Nobody cares about college basketball here.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:36 pm

Interesting. When wearing UA gear all over California Texas and DC this summer no one said anything like that to me

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:47 pm

Most probably don’t care or follow college b-ball but those that do you can tell watch a lot of ESPIN. I have been in 31 states and DC and had comments in Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Florida, NC, Tennessee, Virginia, DC, Michigan (in the Mitt), Wyoming and UDub. Granted I wear AZ Gear almost every day and I do make a lot of eye contact with those people wearing another teams shirt.

The only thing they have said is they think kids should get paid but I have had to explain the bogus reporting over and over again

IndianaZonaFan · Post by **IndianaZonaFan** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:49 pm

azcat49 wrote:
PHXCATS wrote:
azcat49 wrote:
YoDeFoe wrote:Bruce Pearl: 'Worst behind us' in NCAA investigation

Keep in mind that Auburn was way farther over the line than Arizona... in the scheme longer, took more money, and paid the parents of two recruits which cost them their eligibility (temporarily). Also, Pearl is a repeat offender who previously lied to the NCAA while being investigated for recruiting violations at Tennessee.

If Auburn is through the worst of it, I can't see a lot of pain inflicted on Arizona. Then again, this is likely coach-speak since you can't expect Pearl to say "lot of bad stuff coming our way!"

But in the battle or perception, AZ is the real black hat so not sure anything other schools might say means much
I dont think so. I think local media says this and assu fans but nationally a lot of people see ESPN's story as what it was, total bullshit and nationally this FBI story is not a huge deal
Maybe the educated fans but I have been all around this country this summer and whenever I had on my AZ gear I got hit with, “ you guys are going to get killed by the NCAA, will you survive”.

I get the same here in Indiana. “You guys are about to get hammered, I hope Archie didn’t learn anything from big bro...”

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Wed Jul 31, 2019 7:56 pm

IndianaZonaFan wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Maybe the educated fans but I have been all around this country this summer and whenever I had on my AZ gear I got hit with, “ you guys are going to get killed by the NCAA, will you survive”.
I get the same here in Indiana. “You guys are about to get hammered, I hope Archie didn’t learn anything from big bro...”

I hear it too.

My response is usually along the lines of, “If you’re basing that opinion on what you heard on ESPN or read on Yahoo, I’d check my sources...”

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:07 am

i hear it, and i say go fuck yourself

Ned Zissou · Post by **Ned Zissou** » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:05 pm

My Sister lives in Johnstown, PA.

When we visited with her this summer, she said their sports-nut friend from J-Town said Sean Miller got screwed over by ESPN and he was fully aware of the unbalanced coverage/accusations the UofA received.

That is one neutral party outside the bubble that sees it our way.

Siempre Verde · Post by **Siempre Verde** » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:29 pm

Longhorned wrote:At the planetarium's 50th anniversary celebration for the moon landing, an astronomy grad student was explaining to a bunch of U of A undergrads how Sean Miller got caught paying a bunch of recruits. The students' jaws were agape as they absorbed the bad news about their basketball program. This is the new world we're in.

That Grad Ass needs a kicked ass (metaphorically.) However, it just goes to show academia’s contempt towards athletics. Like academia is so innocent...

ByJoveByJingle · Post by **ByJoveByJingle** » Thu Aug 01, 2019 8:54 pm

Longhorned and I are both academics. And we outrank a grad assistant. Just goes to show you how much academics love athletics.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:15 pm

IrishAzCat · Post by **IrishAzCat** » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:02 pm

U.P. Zona Fan · Post by **U.P. Zona Fan** » Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:51 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:

Wonder who he lost a bet with to have to post something like that.

Probly rise and flail

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:47 am

Summer is almost over and only one program, NC ST, has received a letter and they said 6 would. They also mentioned 2 high profile programs would receive a letter in July and only the above did. Wonder what the delay is or if they want to wait for the full attention to be on college football before they lower the boom

tricat · Post by **tricat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:22 am

azcat49 wrote:Summer is almost over and only one program, NC ST, has received a letter and they said 6 would. They also mentioned 2 high profile programs would receive a letter in July and only the above did. Wonder what the delay is or if they want to wait for the full attention to be on college football before they lower the boom

NC State was proactive in announcing they received their notice of allegations, but it's not uncommon for schools to drag it out a bit before releasing it (frequently releasing it due to FOIA requests). So it's possible the other schools did get them last month.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:48 am

azcat49 wrote:Summer is almost over and only one program, NC ST, has received a letter and they said 6 would. They also mentioned 2 high profile programs would receive a letter in July and only the above did. Wonder what the delay is or if they want to wait for the full attention to be on college football before they lower the boom

Don't forget about Auburn. They announce three weeks ago that they expect to have a notice of allegations for the bribery scandal ($91,000+ in bribes)

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... bery-case/" target="_blank

There's your two schools in my opinion...

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:15 pm

MountainCat wrote:
azcat49 wrote:Summer is almost over and only one program, NC ST, has received a letter and they said 6 would. They also mentioned 2 high profile programs would receive a letter in July and only the above did. Wonder what the delay is or if they want to wait for the full attention to be on college football before they lower the boom
Don't forget about Auburn. They announce three weeks ago that they expect to have a notice of allegations for the bribery scandal ($91,000+ in bribes)

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... bery-case/" target="_blank

There's your two schools in my opinion...

Yep, there's your two. The big question is whether we'd be part of the next round of 4. The longer we don't get one, the better things are.

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:21 pm

Well I do want us not to be part of the 6 so we can flush our shit right down Dickie V’s throat.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:31 am

Utah just got 2 years probation for impermissible recruiting activities...

"Two years of NCAA probation is announced for "Level II Mitigation" penalties for recruiting during a quiet period in 2018. Associate head coach Tommy Connor was suspended by the school for a week last season, according to NCAA."

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 9:49 am

Every asshole Ute fan told me they were clean...

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 10:12 am

Here's the Yahoo Sports article that just came out on the Utah Violations:

https://sports.yahoo.com/utah-hit-two-y ... 51451.html" target="_blank

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:24 am

MountainCat wrote:Here's the Yahoo Sports article that just came out on the Utah Violations:

https://sports.yahoo.com/utah-hit-two-y ... 51451.html" target="_blank

The entire coaching staff was involved in a recruiting a player during the quiet period. JFC, Utah isn't dirty - they're plain stupid.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 11:28 am

I'm not going to gloat because honestly Larry K was one of the few people that said "Lets see the evidence before we accuse Miller"...probably the ONLY Pac12 guy to slow the roll against Sean...

Still...his staff maybe shouldn't try to recruit unmarried players anymore...just saying...it is Utah.

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:18 pm

CatFanOneMil wrote:I'm not going to gloat because honestly Larry K was one of the few people that said "Lets see the evidence before we accuse Miller"...probably the ONLY Pac12 guy to slow the roll against Sean...

Still...his staff maybe shouldn't try to recruit unmarried players anymore...just saying...it is Utah.

Now we can understand why Larry K said that about miller - he was worried about what was coming his way....

MountainCat · Post by **MountainCat** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:19 pm

Anyone know what their two year probation includes? I didn't understand that part...

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 pm

MountainCat wrote:Anyone know what their two year probation includes? I didn't understand that part...

Utah's mascot, Swoop the red-tailed hawk, will have to submit to random drug tests as ordered by their PO.

prh · Post by **prh** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 2:00 pm

CatFanOneMil wrote:I'm not going to gloat because honestly Larry K was one of the few people that said "Lets see the evidence before we accuse Miller"...probably the ONLY Pac12 guy to slow the roll against Sean...

Still...his staff maybe shouldn't try to recruit unmarried players anymore...just saying...it is Utah.

Yeah but he also ran his mouth quite a bit about how they'd unexpectedly lose recruiting battles and knew other programs were cheating.

Plus that fan base was obscene when we visited them after the initial "scandal" broke, as that was our Pac12 opener. So screw them.

CatFanOneMil · Post by **CatFanOneMil** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:14 pm

prh wrote:
CatFanOneMil wrote:I'm not going to gloat because honestly Larry K was one of the few people that said "Lets see the evidence before we accuse Miller"...probably the ONLY Pac12 guy to slow the roll against Sean...

Still...his staff maybe shouldn't try to recruit unmarried players anymore...just saying...it is Utah.
Yeah but he also ran his mouth quite a bit about how they'd unexpectedly lose recruiting battles and knew other programs were cheating.

Plus that fan base was obscene when we visited them after the initial "scandal" broke, as that was our Pac12 opener. So screw them.

You know now that you mention it they WERE grade A dicks to is and to Ayton and the rest of them team, that fall on the coach as far as I'm concerned, you've changed my mind FUCK Utah and the coach K they rode in on...

G.L.O.A.T.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:17 pm

Utah fans are easily the worst fans in the PAC. I'm not sure it's even close.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:24 pm

Olsondogg wrote:Utah fans are easily the worst fans in the PAC. I'm not sure it's even close.

It's not. They're straight up trash and I have no reason why they're so puffed up about their middling program.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Tue Aug 06, 2019 4:25 pm

Just know that if AZ gets an official notice of allegations, ESPN will put it all over its front page, meanwhile all these other allegation announcements are buried.

ChooChooCat · Post by **ChooChooCat** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:45 am

Now this is a school that knows they're fucked. We're doing nothing remotely similar to this.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:49 am

Olsondogg wrote:Utah fans are easily the worst fans in the PAC. I'm not sure it's even close.

you're being too kind - the country

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:19 am

midnightx wrote:Just know that if AZ gets an official notice of allegations, ESPN will put it all over its front page, meanwhile all these other allegation announcements are buried.

Look at the difference in coverage between "magical run by Auburn!"...while they had to sit two players who took payments vs "Sean Miller is a dead man walking" ...while there was never a solid indication he was involved - you can bet the house that any news on an Arizona penalty will be treated as A1 material.

midnightx · Post by **midnightx** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:12 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:
midnightx wrote:Just know that if AZ gets an official notice of allegations, ESPN will put it all over its front page, meanwhile all these other allegation announcements are buried.
Look at the difference in coverage between "magical run by Auburn!"...while they had to sit two players who took payments vs "Sean Miller is a dead man walking" ...while there was never a solid indication he was involved - you can bet the house that any news on an Arizona penalty will be treated as A1 material.

No doubt about it. It will be the first major story on the ESPN website about this topic in months. After the credibility hit the network took for the bogus FBI report/Miller wiretap story, any time an accusation or mention of AZ comes up, ESPN publishes something to try to corroborate its original screw-up.

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:15 pm

YoDeFoe wrote:
midnightx wrote:Just know that if AZ gets an official notice of allegations, ESPN will put it all over its front page, meanwhile all these other allegation announcements are buried.
Look at the difference in coverage between "magical run by Auburn!"...while they had to sit two players who took payments vs "Sean Miller is a dead man walking" ...while there was never a solid indication he was involved - you can bet the house that any news on an Arizona penalty will be treated as A1 material.

I only care about potential sanctions and recruiting. Beyond that, at this point, I think I actually prefer being the bad guy. I'm pretty far gone on caring about being labeled.

If we're looked at as outlaws, we're in the West.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 3:50 pm

97cats wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:Utah fans are easily the worst fans in the PAC. I'm not sure it's even close.
you're being too kind - the country

you're being too kind -the planet

Login • Register