The 2020-2021 Season Thread

[ChooChooCat]

So what are the chances Krissa plays a game at Arizona?

Barring an injury in practice, 100%.

[Postmaster]

NCAA took first half of season from him. Now the tournament is off the table.
Who knows if there will be more sanctions next season.

[midnightx]

NCAA took first half of season from him. Now the tournament is off the table.
Who knows if there will be more sanctions next season.

A two-year post-season ban (not that is what you suggested)? That would be excessive. This isn't a USC and Miami football scenario where a NCAA death penalty is on the table (and frankly, USC football was given way too harsh of a penalty from the Reggie Bush fiasco -- lack of institutional control for an athlete's parents making a direct deal with an agent outside of the view of the program). Arizona and several other major programs that were exposed to many of the same recruiting and assistant coach/agent violations (e.g. Louisville, Kansas, Arizona, Auburn, etc.) may receive some scholarship reductions or even vacated wins, but it is difficult to imagine that punishments will go beyond one year tournament bans. Arizona didn't do anything significantly different than the other programs, and in some instances less, so even if the NCAA doesn't like the self-imposing ban, what else can they realistically do? The NCAA just wants to drop a hammer, and nail Arizona at a future date when the program is conceivably in a healthier state of its rebuild, to punish Arizona what it hurts more. Krissa shouldn't be impacted by the NCAA nonsense next year, other than the team having potentially less scholarships to build a roster with.

[midnightx]

Not sure how this is a win for Arizona State. This is on some level a lost season for college basketball, so who cares if AZ pulls out of post-season play? How does it help Arizona State? It doesn't raise that program's stature.

[Beachcat97]

Guys, I’m just so exhausted by the scandal and its aftermath. Following it all has just worn on me, and I’ve lost interest beyond just wanting to know the bottom line in terms of sanctions.

Coming out of this miserable year, I’m just focused on whatever actual basketball gets to be played. I had more fun watching that Colorado win than I’ve had for a long time watching AZ hoops. So I plan on rooting like hell for this team - and this coach - and seeing if we can’t surprise some people this year.

[midnightx]

I still haven’t heard what noa alleges miller did.
Quinerly, Alkins and Ayton were all cleared to play.

Lack of institutional control. Book broke the law, Phelps lightly violated amateurism with his help of Pinder. We still haven't actually gotten eyes on the document so we don't know the evidence that they're pointing to nor even the complete list of charges.

Lack of institutional control is really a broad and dangerous provision within the NCAA bylaws. So, Miller is supposed to know and be able to control what Book does on his own time? But it was enough to nail USC football, even though the program didn't have control over what Bush's parents did with an agent. That said, this mess probably goes beyond the Book and Phelps transgressions -- one suspects the NCAA is possibly considering other claims, including allegations that Miller paid Ayton, etc., regardless if there is verifiable evidence or provable facts, in hopes such allegations can be proven during the arbitration process.

[ChooChooCat]

I still haven’t heard what noa alleges miller did.
Quinerly, Alkins and Ayton were all cleared to play.

Lack of institutional control. Book broke the law, Phelps lightly violated amateurism with his help of Pinder. We still haven't actually gotten eyes on the document so we don't know the evidence that they're pointing to nor even the complete list of charges.

Lack of institutional control is really a broad and dangerous provision within the NCAA bylaws. So, Miller is supposed to know and be able to control what Book does on his own time? But it was enough to nail USC football, even though the program didn't have control over what Bush's parents did with an agent. That said, this mess probably goes beyond the Book and Phelps transgressions -- one suspects the NCAA is possibly considering other claims, including allegations that Miller paid Ayton, etc., regardless if there is verifiable evidence or provable facts, in hopes such allegations can be proven during the arbitration process.

Which is why it’s going to the IARP. Arizona’s lawyers have their shit together here and think they can beat anything that’s not Book’s fuckery, which he was obviously guilty of in a court of law, hence the decision to ban the postseason. Keep your fingers crossed they are as good as they think they are.

[ByJoveByJingle]

I still haven’t heard what noa alleges miller did.
Quinerly, Alkins and Ayton were all cleared to play.

Lack of institutional control. Book broke the law, Phelps lightly violated amateurism with his help of Pinder. We still haven't actually gotten eyes on the document so we don't know the evidence that they're pointing to nor even the complete list of charges.

Lack of institutional control is really a broad and dangerous provision within the NCAA bylaws. So, Miller is supposed to know and be able to control what Book does on his own time? But it was enough to nail USC football, even though the program didn't have control over what Bush's parents did with an agent. That said, this mess probably goes beyond the Book and Phelps transgressions -- one suspects the NCAA is possibly considering other claims, including allegations that Miller paid Ayton, etc., regardless if there is verifiable evidence or provable facts, in hopes such allegations can be proven during the arbitration process.

Which is why it’s going to the IARP. Arizona’s lawyers have their shit together here and think they can beat anything that’s not Book’s fuckery, which he was obviously guilty of in a court of law, hence the decision to ban the postseason. Keep your fingers crossed they are as good as they think they are.

Are they friends of Ricky Bobby, or were they hired based on a track record of legal excellence?

[Postmaster]

I guess I’m just paranoid that Krissa will just get fed up and go home.

[Merkin]

I guess I’m just paranoid that Krissa will just get fed up and go home.

I for one was really surprised he came back. To play Russia, or NAU, which the NAU game was eventually canceled.

Along with the US' complete failure in regards to the Covid response.

[Beachcat97]

I guess I’m just paranoid that Krissa will just get fed up and go home.

And it’s not just the situation with hoops. Is the campus even open? It’s not like he can really have a UofA experience anywhere near like what most of us had, with hanging out at the rec center, on the mall, going to parties, etc. Might be more fun for a 19 year old hoops star in Europe right now.

[Spaceman Spiff]

And look, this is ultimately my opinion, but the real problem is the NCAA. People clearly want to give top prospects money. But the NCAA has decided it's wrong that young, African-American men receive market value for their talents. That money could go to the NCAA's billion plus dollar tv deal and enrich middle aged white men, the way it's supposed to, right?

So enact arbitrary rules and impose arbitrary punishments. The hilarious part of Parrish's argument is he thinks this years team doesn't deserve it...but maybe next year's will. Or the year after that. Like they're more morally culpable for **** that happened in 2017.

Yeah, it'd be nice if Miller got the bulk of the punishment. Suspend him for x amount of games and fine him x amount of dollars. Let's not take games away from kids who had nothing to do with any of this.

I'm not even sure about that. I look at it like this. The thing I'm certain we need to be punished for is Book taking a bribe. That did not benefit Miller in any way and he never would have condoned it, if only because it was a huge risk that did not benefit the program in any way.

That's really the thing that's clear and proven. I dislike the "institutional control" where we act like head coaches police all private actions of assistants. Unless there's some proof Book's action benefitted Miller or Arizona, I see no point in sanctioning Miller over them.

[midnightx]

So we can ban ourselves from the postseason while in the middle of playing that same season? Wouldn't that need to be done prior to Game 1 for it to look good to the NCAA?

This is a half-assed attempt to self-impose the minimum punishment. Also an outside chance we just screwed over next years team and Wildcat fans worldwide.

Louisville did it with a NCAA tourney quality team a few years back right in the middle of the season (after how far we’re currently along).

And Arizona's legal team can also point to a 6-1 start, a team with potential to win the conference and contend in the tournament. It isn't as if the season started off as a dumpster fire, so the program is taking a tournament ban when it won't matter (even though as a fan, one can certainly argue this season is sort of lost season by Arizona standards). On paper, it looks like it will matter, and perhaps the arbitrators will take that strongly into consideration as a legitimate punishment.

[midnightx]

And look, this is ultimately my opinion, but the real problem is the NCAA. People clearly want to give top prospects money. But the NCAA has decided it's wrong that young, African-American men receive market value for their talents. That money could go to the NCAA's billion plus dollar tv deal and enrich middle aged white men, the way it's supposed to, right?

So enact arbitrary rules and impose arbitrary punishments. The hilarious part of Parrish's argument is he thinks this years team doesn't deserve it...but maybe next year's will. Or the year after that. Like they're more morally culpable for **** that happened in 2017.

Yeah, it'd be nice if Miller got the bulk of the punishment. Suspend him for x amount of games and fine him x amount of dollars. Let's not take games away from kids who had nothing to do with any of this.

I'm not even sure about that. I look at it like this. The thing I'm certain we need to be punished for is Book taking a bribe. That did not benefit Miller in any way and he never would have condoned it, if only because it was a huge risk that did not benefit the program in any way.

That's really the thing that's clear and proven. I dislike the "institutional control" where we act like head coaches police all private actions of assistants. Unless there's some proof Book's action benefitted Miller or Arizona, I see no point in sanctioning Miller over them.

Yes, that is one of the problems with "lack of institutional control." The head coach is held accountable for actions by others that the head coach often can have no knowledge of without having his or her staff under surveillance. It makes no sense, but it is allegedly in the NCAA bylaws. Whether the arbitrator has to still punish Miller under those bylaws with a suspension is questionable.

[BBQ wildcat]

I don't get some of the posters here saying that the NCAA might add charges or add punishment. They gave us their NOA, and those are the charges. The UA applied to go through the IARP and the case was accepted. The panel will do its thing (not sure what that entails -- some kind of "trial"?, depositions?, or whatever), then makes their decision on what the punishment will be. That decision can't be appealed, either by the UA OR the NCAA.

At least that is my understanding, that at this point, the NCAA is completely out of the picture as far as this mess is concerned. Or am I missing something?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't get some of the posters here saying that the NCAA might add charges or add punishment. They gave us their NOA, and those are the charges. The UA applied to go through the IARP and the case was accepted. The panel will do its thing (not sure what that entails -- some kind of "trial"?, depositions?, or whatever), then makes their decision on what the punishment will be. That decision can't be appealed, either by the UA OR the NCAA.

At least that is my understanding, that at this point, the NCAA is completely out of the picture as far as this mess is concerned. Or am I missing something?

The NCAA isn't totally out. I would think of them as prosecutors of a case against us.

The NOA is basically their charging document. I suppose in theory they could try to add a charge, but I don't think that happens and they'd look bad. That's why I think we self sanctioned at this point. We're locked into charges and the IARP process. If we'd self sanctioned earlier, we would have done it without the benefit of either.

We're essentially indicted and headed for a trial with the IARP with the NCAA as prosecutors.

[mofo]

Yes, that is one of the problems with "lack of institutional control." The head coach is held accountable for actions by others that the head coach often can have no knowledge of without having his or her staff under surveillance. It makes no sense, but it is allegedly in the NCAA bylaws. Whether the arbitrator has to still punish Miller under those bylaws with a suspension is questionable.

I agree that it shouldn't be this way if Miller didn't know about it. Playing devil's advocate however, this is the same standard that exists at every company in America. If an employee goes rogue and does something illegal related to company business, both the employee and the company can be held accountable in the court of law even if nobody else was aware. Seems like universities are businesses and the same should apply, at least the NCAA can justify it that way anyway.

On another note, at this point does the IARP or NCAA issue penalties? My understanding is the IARP arbitration is for the charges but does it also include the penalty or does this fall back on the NCAA?

[EastCoastCat]

Also, wasn't it true that the 9 infractions (5 Level 1) were not entirely associated with the basketball program? I recall a few of them were against the swimming & diving program?

I ask because on the ESPN scroll they seem to indicate our self-imposed postseason ban was due to all 9 infractions against the basketball program which I think is factually false.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yes, that is one of the problems with "lack of institutional control." The head coach is held accountable for actions by others that the head coach often can have no knowledge of without having his or her staff under surveillance. It makes no sense, but it is allegedly in the NCAA bylaws. Whether the arbitrator has to still punish Miller under those bylaws with a suspension is questionable.

I agree that it shouldn't be this way if Miller didn't know about it. Playing devil's advocate however, this is the same standard that exists at every company in America. If an employee goes rogue and does something illegal related to company business, both the employee and the company can be held accountable in the court of law even if nobody else was aware. Seems like universities are businesses and the same should apply, at least the NCAA can justify it that way anyway.

On another note, at this point does the IARP or NCAA issue penalties? My understanding is the IARP arbitration is for the charges but does it also include the penalty or does this fall back on the NCAA?

IARP issues penalties.

The biggest issue I have with your company analogy is that the illegality here doesn't benefit the university. If a company employee robs a bank, the company doesn't get in trouble unless they somehow encouraged/benefitted. It gets lost, but Arizona is legally the victim of Book's actions.

That's my big problem with making Arizona or Miller take a fall if the only issues is Book taking a bribe. The bribe is private conduct that doesn't benefit Arizona or Miller in the same way a bank robbery wouldn't benefit them.

There's still a price to be paid for having a criminal assistant coach, but far less than if the coach was acting for the program.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also, wasn't it true that the 9 infractions (5 Level 1) were not entirely associated with the basketball program? I recall a few of them were against the swimming & diving program?

I ask because on the ESPN scroll they seem to indicate our self-imposed postseason ban was due to all 9 infractions against the basketball program which I think is factually false.

It's unclear. Swimming and diving was included, but it isn't known if the 9 infractions were parted out by program or whether the NCAA lumped both Swimming/Basketball into a single infraction.

It seems like they got lumped together in institutional control, but the assumption is that some of the 9 were more specific, and unknown if they were lumped together there.

[mofo]

The biggest issue I have with your company analogy is that the illegality here doesn't benefit the university. If a company employee robs a bank, the company doesn't get in trouble unless they somehow encouraged/benefitted. It gets lost, but Arizona is legally the victim of Book's actions.

That's my big problem with making Arizona or Miller take a fall if the only issues is Book taking a bribe. The bribe is private conduct that doesn't benefit Arizona or Miller in the same way a bank robbery wouldn't benefit them.

There's still a price to be paid for having a criminal assistant coach, but far less than if the coach was acting for the program.

I think an argument can be made that if a kid can get paid by going to a school and then chooses that school, then it could have benefitted that school. In this case the school didn't do the paying nor was aware of it, the payment wasn't to attend Arizona and as far as I know the kid didn't even get paid b/c Book kept it. But in a very indirect way this could be perceived as a benefit to attend Arizona, as well as any other school who had a player the agent had an eye on - but they didn't get caught. The kid probably didn't know this when he committed to AZ and perhaps it was the first and only time it was attempted, but if it had been going on or had the potential to keep going on if the FBI didn't intervene, then I can understand the argument.

I don't agree with it but can understand it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

The biggest issue I have with your company analogy is that the illegality here doesn't benefit the university. If a company employee robs a bank, the company doesn't get in trouble unless they somehow encouraged/benefitted. It gets lost, but Arizona is legally the victim of Book's actions.

That's my big problem with making Arizona or Miller take a fall if the only issues is Book taking a bribe. The bribe is private conduct that doesn't benefit Arizona or Miller in the same way a bank robbery wouldn't benefit them.

There's still a price to be paid for having a criminal assistant coach, but far less than if the coach was acting for the program.

I think an argument could be made that if a kid could get paid by going to a school and chose that school, then it could have benefitted that school. In this case the school didn't do the paying nor was aware of it, the payment wasn't to attend Arizona and as far as I know the kid didn't even get paid b/c Book kept it. But in a very indirect way this could be perceived as a benefit to attend Arizona, as well as any other school who had a player the agent had an eye on - but they didn't get caught.

I don't agree with it but can understand the argument.

So I don't disagree, but that's not what Book pled to. Book pled to soliciting $ from Dawkins, and that's it.

I do agree if there's proof Book paid a recruit, it's a totally different ballgame. On that, I think the state of the evidence seems to be that Book told Dawkins he was paying (and Miller was paying) but has since denied that was true and said he was just trying to get $ from Dawkins. I am not aware of any corroboration that $ changed hands and the players Book said he paid have never been ruled ineligible for accepting $ from Book.

I think we have to suffer some punishment for Book taking $ from Dawkins. I think our argument is that is the extent of what can be proven, and the real meaty allegations of recruits being paid have no similar corroborative proof.

[ChooChooCat]

Also, wasn't it true that the 9 infractions (5 Level 1) were not entirely associated with the basketball program? I recall a few of them were against the swimming & diving program?

I ask because on the ESPN scroll they seem to indicate our self-imposed postseason ban was due to all 9 infractions against the basketball program which I think is factually false.

It's unclear. Swimming and diving was included, but it isn't known if the 9 infractions were parted out by program or whether the NCAA lumped both Swimming/Basketball into a single infraction.

It seems like they got lumped together in institutional control, but the assumption is that some of the 9 were more specific, and unknown if they were lumped together there.

All 9 were basketball, swimming, or university in general related. I think 3 were for the basketball program specifically. One was Book, one is Miller lack of institutional control, and I’m pretty sure the other is Phelps. It may be 4 now that I think of it with the last one being the total fabricated bullshit of our failure to cooperate because Phelps and Book didn’t want to talk to the NCAA after neither were employed by U of A.

[YoDeFoe]

Also, wasn't it true that the 9 infractions (5 Level 1) were not entirely associated with the basketball program? I recall a few of them were against the swimming & diving program?

I ask because on the ESPN scroll they seem to indicate our self-imposed postseason ban was due to all 9 infractions against the basketball program which I think is factually false.

It's unclear. Swimming and diving was included, but it isn't known if the 9 infractions were parted out by program or whether the NCAA lumped both Swimming/Basketball into a single infraction.

It seems like they got lumped together in institutional control, but the assumption is that some of the 9 were more specific, and unknown if they were lumped together there.

All 9 were basketball, swimming, or university in general related. I think 3 were for the basketball program specifically. One was Book, one is Miller lack of institutional control, and I’m pretty sure the other is Phelps. It may be 4 now that I think of it with the last one being the total fabricated bullshit of our failure to cooperate because Phelps and Book didn’t want to talk to the NCAA after neither were employed by U of A.

That was my favorite one. "WHY DIDN'T YOU FORCE THE PERSON WHO DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU TO TALK TO US?"

I don't know, NCAA, Rhianna won't return my DMs but you don't see me pissing up your leg over it.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also, wasn't it true that the 9 infractions (5 Level 1) were not entirely associated with the basketball program? I recall a few of them were against the swimming & diving program?

I ask because on the ESPN scroll they seem to indicate our self-imposed postseason ban was due to all 9 infractions against the basketball program which I think is factually false.

It's unclear. Swimming and diving was included, but it isn't known if the 9 infractions were parted out by program or whether the NCAA lumped both Swimming/Basketball into a single infraction.

It seems like they got lumped together in institutional control, but the assumption is that some of the 9 were more specific, and unknown if they were lumped together there.

All 9 were basketball, swimming, or university in general related. I think 3 were for the basketball program specifically. One was Book, one is Miller lack of institutional control, and I’m pretty sure the other is Phelps. It may be 4 now that I think of it with the last one being the total fabricated bullshit of our failure to cooperate because Phelps and Book didn’t want to talk to the NCAA after neither were employed by U of A.

That was my favorite one. "WHY DIDN'T YOU FORCE THE PERSON WHO DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU TO TALK TO US?"

I don't know, NCAA, Rhianna won't return my DMs but you don't see me pissing up your leg over it.

That's why I think we have a fairly good argument to the IARP that the NCAA went overboard on us. They did some things like that where they held us responsible for stuff completely outside our control.

Book was an ex-employee under a federal indictment. Not only could we not compel him to talk, he had an attorney in an active federal case and potential criminal consequences for anything he admitted to.

But it's Arizona's fault when he doesn't talk to the NCAA. That's why I rip NCAA compliance all the time for living in their made up kangaroo justice system. Compare their "system" to the actual justice system and you see how comical NCAA compliance is.

[ChooChooCat]

Also Phelps was more than willing to talk to the NCAA. So that part was absolute bullshit from the start.

[zonagrad]

Every major media outlet continues to work on the premise that Arizona and Miller are presumed guilty and must be punished. It's upside down, where in the real world you are presumed innocent and the state (in this case the NCAA) must prove their case. What evidence of wrongdoing by Miller does the NCAA have? Book worked an illegal, private deal with a shady agent. He was rightly fired and did time. If the FBI considered the UA a victim, why is the NCAA trying to punish the victim, especially when there's zero of evidence of Arizona benefitting from the scheme?

A Mark Schlabach article that used an unnamed source (likely a Dawkins' defense attorney) that alleged illegal payments by Miller to Ayton is being given more credence than it should. Does this pass the NCAA smell test for evidence? Based on this low bar for evidence, shouldn't Duke be answering to Level 1 allegations as well regarding Zion?

Lastly, Arizona can rightly argue that because of the media coverage, they have in fact been dealing with de facto punishment already. The program has endured three years of a dark cloud hanging over the program with still nothing tangibly proven.

It's a travesty how Arizona and Miller have been treated by the media in comparison to Kansas, Duke, etc...

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also Phelps was more than willing to talk to the NCAA. So that part was absolute bullshit from the start.

The IARP can conduct investigation and hear testimony. We should get Phelps to come tell that to the IARP.

[ChooChooCat]

Also Phelps was more than willing to talk to the NCAA. So that part was absolute bullshit from the start.

The IARP can conduct investigation and hear testimony. We should get Phelps to come tell that to the IARP.

Doubt we could compel Phelps to come talk on our behalf now, but I do know he had zero issue talking with the NCAA when they requested to.

[midnightx]

Every major media outlet continues to work on the premise that Arizona and Miller are presumed guilty and must be punished. It's upside down, where in the real world you are presumed innocent and the state (in this case the NCAA) must prove their case. What evidence of wrongdoing by Miller does the NCAA have? Book worked an illegal, private deal with a shady agent. He was rightly fired and did time. If the FBI considered the UA a victim, why is the NCAA trying to punish the victim, especially when there's zero of evidence of Arizona benefitting from the scheme?

A Mark Schlabach article that used an unnamed source (likely a Dawkins' defense attorney) that alleged illegal payments by Miller to Ayton is being given more credence than it should. Does this pass the NCAA smell test for evidence? Based on this low bar for evidence, shouldn't Duke be answering to Level 1 allegations as well regarding Zion?

Lastly, Arizona can rightly argue that because of the media coverage, they have in fact been dealing with de facto punishment already. The program has endured three years of a dark cloud hanging over the program with still nothing tangibly proven.

It's a travesty how Arizona and Miller have been treated by the media in comparison to Kansas, Duke, etc...

No question about it. The Miller/Ayton payment never was validated in a court of law, in fact, the testimony under oath from Dawkins indicated that he actually had no knowledge of it. It was an unverifiable leak from a source and ESPN ran with it in an atrocious example of unprofessional journalism. But that is the narrative. The irony is that Louisville actually facilitated a payment for a player's services, Bill Self is on record via his text messages trying to facilitate payments to Ayton, and there are legitimate allegations that Duke facilitated payments to Zion. Yet, those transgressions and stories are rarely mentioned. Like you said, if all it takes is an allegation, where is ESPN's uproar over Zion's alleged payment from Duke? That didn't come from an unnamed source, it was an allegation made in a court document. This obsession with Arizona is bizarre. ESPN and others have decided it wants to make Arizona the new dirty program of college basketball -- it is an easy target, it is a major program worthy of headlines, ESPN has no significant relationship with the Pac-12, ESPN and others can look the other way and take attention off of known violators like Calipari and Pearl, and protect Kansas and Duke.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also Phelps was more than willing to talk to the NCAA. So that part was absolute bullshit from the start.

The IARP can conduct investigation and hear testimony. We should get Phelps to come tell that to the IARP.

Doubt we could compel Phelps to come talk on our behalf now, but I do know he had zero issue talking with the NCAA when they requested to.

It's a pipe dream, but perhaps at least he'd submit an affidavit that he was willing to talk. I know he probably has no love for us, but if the IARP would weigh things like show causes, etc...still probably a pipe dream, buut whatever.

[YoDeFoe]

Also Phelps was more than willing to talk to the NCAA. So that part was absolute bullshit from the start.

The IARP can conduct investigation and hear testimony. We should get Phelps to come tell that to the IARP.

Doubt we could compel Phelps to come talk on our behalf now, but I do know he had zero issue talking with the NCAA when they requested to.

It's a pipe dream, but perhaps at least he'd submit an affidavit that he was willing to talk. I know he probably has no love for us, but if the IARP would weigh things like show causes, etc...still probably a pipe dream, buut whatever.

Here's what gives me hope: the actual IARP panel. It's largely a collection of expert arbitrators, litigators, and mediators. These are people who live in the real world.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also Phelps was more than willing to talk to the NCAA. So that part was absolute bullshit from the start.

The IARP can conduct investigation and hear testimony. We should get Phelps to come tell that to the IARP.

Doubt we could compel Phelps to come talk on our behalf now, but I do know he had zero issue talking with the NCAA when they requested to.

It's a pipe dream, but perhaps at least he'd submit an affidavit that he was willing to talk. I know he probably has no love for us, but if the IARP would weigh things like show causes, etc...still probably a pipe dream, buut whatever.

Here's what gives me hope: the actual IARP panel. It's largely a collection of expert arbitrators, litigators, and mediators. These are people who live in the real world.

I share that sentiment. I've long thought we should do the following things and hopefully they understand.

1. Acknowledge we deserve some punishment for Book's federal conviction. This is not an area I feel we can or should push back on. He did that shit.
2. Point out the remaining allegations lack any degree of corroboration. If I claim I'm the queen of England, that does not make it true. Same with Book's words.
3. Point out the ways in which the NCAA has simply overextended their facts. Dinging us for not controlling the actions of ex-employees is one area. Lumping in swimming/diving is another example of something they haven't done with anyone else.
4. Point to the tourney ban as a reasonable punishment. Compare to OSU and Alabama. We're comparable to OSU and dropped worse on ourselves than Bama did.
5. Request they punish us based on actual facts. The recruits we're alleged to have done stuff with were all cleared by the NCAA. How do you punish us for stuff the NCAA cleared the players of.
6. This leaves us where we started. Book did something that warrants punishment, but that's it.

[Beachcat97]

Bear down and beat the Huskies!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Bear down and beat the Huskies!

UW has been bad. I hope we make them look like it.

[azgreg]

[Catintheheat]

Looking at the Cats lineup. I believe this would have been a sweet-16 or better team. Best team since 16-17. The guards are better because of how unselfish they are. Plus, I don't see chuckers on the team. They play smart. Defensively, I'd like to see them take more chances in stripping the ball, and jumping into passing lanes. Their quickness is a strength and the team out to be tailored to this. They play excellent transition basketball but play a good half-court game too, thanks to the decision-making, and not just the guards.

Thinking how good this team is now and their incredible potential If we return the team, and I believe it is possible, this team could be the best team since 14-15 and a National Championship wouldn't be out to the question. Definitely Final Four good. This is the most fun team to watch since 14-15,

One last point. This reminds me more of a Lute Olson team than Sean Miller teams.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That post is for the people who claim Oregon has passed us.

I really like this year's team. If we return the guys we can return, we'll be cooking with gas next year.

[dmjcat]

Looking at the Cats lineup. I believe this would have been a sweet-16 or better team. Best team since 16-17. The guards are better because of how unselfish they are. Plus, I don't see chuckers on the team. They play smart. Defensively, I'd like to see them take more chances in stripping the ball, and jumping into passing lanes. Their quickness is a strength and the team out to be tailored to this. They play excellent transition basketball but play a good half-court game too, thanks to the decision-making, and not just the guards.

Thinking how good this team is now and their incredible potential If we return the team, and I believe it is possible, this team could be the best team since 14-15 and a National Championship wouldn't be out to the question. Definitely Final Four good. This is the most fun team to watch since 14-15,

One last point. This reminds me more of a Lute Olson team than Sean Miller teams.

Personally I am just enjoying this team now, in the present. This isn't the Lute Olson era anymore. The players have the NBA, the NBA G league, and Overseas leagues to play in. Frankly, I will be surprised if the team returns intact for next season.

[Catintheheat]

Looking at the Cats lineup. I believe this would have been a sweet-16 or better team. Best team since 16-17. The guards are better because of how unselfish they are. Plus, I don't see chuckers on the team. They play smart. Defensively, I'd like to see them take more chances in stripping the ball, and jumping into passing lanes. Their quickness is a strength and the team out to be tailored to this. They play excellent transition basketball but play a good half-court game too, thanks to the decision-making, and not just the guards.

Thinking how good this team is now and their incredible potential If we return the team, and I believe it is possible, this team could be the best team since 14-15 and a National Championship wouldn't be out to the question. Definitely Final Four good. This is the most fun team to watch since 14-15,

One last point. This reminds me more of a Lute Olson team than Sean Miller teams.

Personally I am just enjoying this team now, in the present. This isn't the Lute Olson era anymore. The players have the NBA, the NBA G league, and Overseas leagues to play in. Frankly, I will be surprised if the team returns intact for next season.

I wouldn't be surprised. For one. I doubt any of these players will be first round picks, let alone lottery. Still, we could lose a couple with bad advice in their ears. Having a chance at a National Championship is a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I love the chemistry of this team. Sean Miller has a knack of sending players to the NBA and staying there if they stay long enough. Lately, it hasn't mattered.

I differ with others here. I believe CSM is a good teacher. It's more about players not staying long enough to learn. I am glad he isn't recruiting OAD players as much now. It allows players to stay and allows CSM to teach. I believe Sean Miller's biggest mistake was recruiting all the highest rated players he could get, because he could. Maybe he has learned his lesson and now recruits high quality basketball players who understand the game already (to a degree). I think the obsession of recruiting the highest ranked players has been a major contributor of Arizona's miseries during the last few years. And I believe he is now finding players who fit into the system without as many stars in their eyes. Find good players who want to learn instead of ones who are looking for a pitstop.

[Catintheheat]

I am looking forward to Jan 16 and Feb 23. That is when we play Oregon. We may not be able to play them in the Pac-12 tourney, but it becomes our Rose Bowl of this season. We can still win the regular season championship. Other Pac-12 teams may get a pass this season but I want to make them aware that they better perform this season because next season will be futile when trying to overcome a UA juggernaut.

[WildcatStunner]

I feel like this team is more balanced offensively than previous teams. For me, personally, it has led to a more enjoyable viewing experience. Even the Stanford loss.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Looking at the Cats lineup. I believe this would have been a sweet-16 or better team. Best team since 16-17. The guards are better because of how unselfish they are. Plus, I don't see chuckers on the team. They play smart. Defensively, I'd like to see them take more chances in stripping the ball, and jumping into passing lanes. Their quickness is a strength and the team out to be tailored to this. They play excellent transition basketball but play a good half-court game too, thanks to the decision-making, and not just the guards.

Thinking how good this team is now and their incredible potential If we return the team, and I believe it is possible, this team could be the best team since 14-15 and a National Championship wouldn't be out to the question. Definitely Final Four good. This is the most fun team to watch since 14-15,

One last point. This reminds me more of a Lute Olson team than Sean Miller teams.

Personally I am just enjoying this team now, in the present. This isn't the Lute Olson era anymore. The players have the NBA, the NBA G league, and Overseas leagues to play in. Frankly, I will be surprised if the team returns intact for next season.

No one on this team is on the NBA radar much right now. That's a positive. You never know if people want to leave and it's always a possibility, but we don't have the guys who have stock where it makes it a good decision to leave.

I'm more worried about the instant transfer and playing time issues than guys going next level.

[azcat49]

Right now wouldn’t we be one scholarship over the limit? Also how do they handle the rule where they give kids an extra year? Just increase the scholarship limit for one year?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Right now wouldn’t we be one scholarship over the limit? Also how do they handle the rule where they give kids an extra year? Just increase the scholarship limit for one year?

If Ira and Terrell leave, we are one over with our current recruiting class of Simpson, Dezonie and Nowell.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Seniors can come back and not count against the scholarship amount so I'd assume we would bring Ira Lee and Brown Jr. back with open arms

[Spaceman Spiff]

Seniors can come back and not count against the scholarship amount so I'd assume we would bring Ira Lee and Brown Jr. back with open arms

Really? I like Terrell, but if he returns, just as pure guards, we'd have:

Akinjo
Baker
Kriisa
T. Brown
Simpson
Dezonie

All those guys are 6'4 and under. Then, to fill out the wing rotation, we'd have:

Terry
Mathurin
Nowell
Goerner?

That's minimum of 9 guys, maybe 10 if Goerner returns and slots as a wing. 9 guys for 120 minutes, and you have to figure Baker and Akinjo would get a minimum of 60 of those minutes. Terry/Mathurn would probably combine for at least 40, so that leaves 20 minutes for 5 guys.

I have an easier time envisioning Ira because a 4th big is something we don't have unless Goerner becomes a stretch 4.

[Merkin]

Seniors can come back and not count against the scholarship amount so I'd assume we would bring Ira Lee and Brown Jr. back with open arms

Spiff and others have stated that they are not coming back under any situation

[azcat49]

The way TBrown has played I would take him over any of those incoming freshman. His assist to TO ratio is amazing and he has shot it pretty well with good shot selection

[Spaceman Spiff]

Seniors can come back and not count against the scholarship amount so I'd assume we would bring Ira Lee and Brown Jr. back with open arms

Spiff and others have stated that they are not coming back under any situation

I don't claim insider status, but Choo has said they're both leaving regardless.

My take is more just from a roster analysis. If Akinjo and Baker are back, they are virtually guaranteed starters and 30+ mpg guys. Kriisa is talented and in direct competition with Brown. Simpson is in direct competition with Brown.

I expect we'd ease the minutes congestion on the perimeter by using Terry/Mathurin as a smaller 4 for some minutes. This chops Ira's role, as you think Tubelis, Brown and Koloko will all be ready for more minutes.

They both can either graduate and move on to a potential pro career or take advantage of the one year transfer. Given they'd both be looking at a contracting role, I don't know why they'd return.

I think you also see it in Miller taking a 3 player recruiting class. It already relies on one player leaving. I know Ira and Brown wouldn't count, but you just can't stack 15 players with 12 returners and expect it to work out.