let's talk '21

[Jefe]

[TheCat]

Let me help you out Choo. Brown or Akinjo were our leading scorer in 17 games last year. Our PAC-12 conference results were one game from being .500 and our out of conference schedule is much better with the tourney's we are playing. A lot less automatic wins against the likes of Grambling, CSU Bakersfield, UTEP and California Baptist. Not sure where the confidence comes from considering a new coach, POTENTIAL players, new system etc. I don't have as much confidence as you. I am always hopeful but sometimes realty gets in the way.

Ok we’re going to be filling 5-6 more scholarships still, but you know for sure we’ll be lucky to be .500 next year. I’ll be sure to go right to the sports book. Good day sir.

Not my opinion Choo.
No team in the conference has taken as many hits from the transfer portal as the Wildcats since the regular season ended.

That’s not entirely surprising given the coaching change and the fact that so many players were nomads in the first place.

But goodness, the exodus is substantial: The Wildcats have lost three key guards, Jemarl Baker, James Akinjo and Terrell Brown, plus big men Ira Lee and Jordan Brown.

That’s more than 40 points per game … gone.

Akinjo was a first-team all-conference selection.

Brown was the Pac-12’s Sixth Man of the Year. (Better known as dog shit by Choo).

What remains is a collection of underclassmen with promise but much to prove.

New coach Tommy Lloyd has secured the services of one newcomer already, Gonzaga transfer Oumar Ballo, but his recruiting skills are being tested immediately.

Because of the criticism that hounded every aspect of Arizona’s coaching change, initial momentum is important for the new regime.

As of this moment, Lloyd doesn’t have a roster capable of finishing in the top half of the conference next season.

You're an idiot. No other way to put it. When you're losing dudes to Fresno St. and Brown is likely going to St. Mary's from what I've heard, ya ain't losing all that much. If they were so good why wasn't Kentucky and schools like that after them? Akinjo dribbled the ball too much and really wouldn't fit this system at all. T. Brown went to Washington, a team that's terrible. Did I dumb it down enough for you

First of all I didn't write that but I'm sure you know more. lol.

So dumb this down. We lost an all pac-12 guard and our leading scorer and the PAC-12 6th man of the year and we are getting better. Got you. You might not have liked Brown but the PAC-12 coaches thought he was the 6th man of the year. I guess they are all idiots too. These guys might not have fit CTL playing style but why do you think Koloko or Ben does? We do have scholarships but so do Duke, Kansas, Kentucky etc. and they are all going for the same players as we are. We have also got a coach that said he was mindful of potential scholarship reductions so who knows how many he is giving out.
Your argument is that they are transferring to lessor schools. Well Akinjo isn't. Remind me where the Brown's came from? Didn't we recruit these other guys from similar schools that they are going too? Must of missed you bitching about why we are taking such inferior players then. You're a joke.

Hey Michigan State lost a player I'm sure we could use. Like I said before. This next year will be defined by the recruits we get now and coaching in close game situations which might not have surfaced as much at Gonz. I am hopeful we get our share of these players but I don't count on these guys starting on day one (other than TY) and I'm willing to recognize what we lost although they are now called dogshit..

[YoDeFoe]

Let me help you out Choo. Brown or Akinjo were our leading scorer in 17 games last year. Our PAC-12 conference results were one game from being .500 and our out of conference schedule is much better with the tourney's we are playing. A lot less automatic wins against the likes of Grambling, CSU Bakersfield, UTEP and California Baptist. Not sure where the confidence comes from considering a new coach, POTENTIAL players, new system etc. I don't have as much confidence as you. I am always hopeful but sometimes realty gets in the way.

Ok we’re going to be filling 5-6 more scholarships still, but you know for sure we’ll be lucky to be .500 next year. I’ll be sure to go right to the sports book. Good day sir.

Not my opinion Choo.
No team in the conference has taken as many hits from the transfer portal as the Wildcats since the regular season ended.

That’s not entirely surprising given the coaching change and the fact that so many players were nomads in the first place.

But goodness, the exodus is substantial: The Wildcats have lost three key guards, Jemarl Baker, James Akinjo and Terrell Brown, plus big men Ira Lee and Jordan Brown.

That’s more than 40 points per game … gone.

Akinjo was a first-team all-conference selection.

Brown was the Pac-12’s Sixth Man of the Year. (Better known as dog shit by Choo).

What remains is a collection of underclassmen with promise but much to prove.

New coach Tommy Lloyd has secured the services of one newcomer already, Gonzaga transfer Oumar Ballo, but his recruiting skills are being tested immediately.

Because of the criticism that hounded every aspect of Arizona’s coaching change, initial momentum is important for the new regime.

As of this moment, Lloyd doesn’t have a roster capable of finishing in the top half of the conference next season.

This might warrant a mute

ASU has lost 8 players to the transfer portal (potentially 10), Utah has lost six so far (including >70% of their points).

[TheCat]

Oregon has less than we do but seem to rebound well.

[BeardownZonaZona]

I'd hope Brown would be able to score. Whole offense ran through him off the bench. Had the highest usage rate off the bench. He also very well likely had the worst defense off the bench. Dude looked lost on every pick and roll situation and was straight up guessing. Ya he could score but damn did he get abused off the pick and roll. Same thing goes for Baker. Can score like a MFer but dude couldn't guard squat. Got abused off the dribble. We were first in offense but why did we lost so many games? Because our defense was garbo and couldn't get stops when needed to. We had a handful of defensive liabilities with Baker and Brown being two of them. Brown could defend the rim but couldn't figure out the pick and roll or the defensive system in general. Baker just couldn't keep up. Again, if they were all that good, they would've been considered some of the top transfers in the country, which they weren't. They're going to end up at bottom feeder schools and stuff their stats. Sorry but not sorry, we can easily replace both

[gronk4heisman]

USC is losing 2 All PAC 12 players including POY and DPOY, Oregon is losing 2, Stanford, OSU, Utah, ASU, etc. all lost one but you are giving all of them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they will get better and Arizona will get worse. You are cherry picking a random date in May when we are extremely likely to still add a starter in the backcourt to pronounce that if a top 50 recruit starts we will be at best a .500 team. And you just continue to double down.

[BeardownZonaZona]

And by the way. Did you really think J. Brown would fit this fast paced offense? Guy wasn't quick and held onto the ball forever. Didn't have the greatest passing ability either. We'll survive without him and Baker

[Spaceman Spiff]

The **** did I just scroll through? Gimme a break Brown wasn't a liability. Yeah he had some good games but if Miller benched him and Lloyd said goobye, clearly there is something he can't develop that a freshman already has. We are over .500 with the roster we have today. Sheesh

You know, I disagree on Brown and think he has more value than this most of the people in this thread, but I feel like I've said that a bunch and the rest of this thread is one of the stranger arguments on here I've seen.

I mean, I disagree, but I can only fight so hard over Jordan Brown, who played one year at Arizona and a potential incoming freshman who might not even commit here.

This last page or so reminds me of when I was a kid and my parents started joking about which one of them was more of a flower child in the 60's and it evolved into them screaming at each other.

[ChooChooCat]

I like turtles.

[Longhorned]

I like to type.

[Chicat]

Internet Dad is disappointed in all of you.

[TheCat]

A) You're paraphrasing Spiff's post on the game that he watched

B) He's a quickly developing combo forward known for his defense but who shows signs of passing ability and an outside shooting stroke - its the most desirable kind of player behind a talented point guard. The versatility that he could bring because of his ability to defend 3-5 and to stretch the floor or create off the dribble on offense... it's a game changer. He fits in any line-up. Tyler Bey is a good comp, I think, in terms of what he could become for us. Or like Rondae if he was only good on D instead of crazy good but could dribble, pass, and hit a jumpshot.

C) Kaluma vs Koloko is a weird argument that I'm not sure anyone is making since there's really no overlap in their positions and skills sets (besides what I think Kaluma could do as a small ball 5 / part of two small ball posts playing together).

I like the optimism that we have so many scholarships and will get the absolute best players but Kaluma previously committed to UNLV and I didn't hear one word of disappointment that an Arizona player went elsewhere.

Probably because he’s not from Arizona and Sean Miller didn’t recruit him prior because he had zero shot to land him. You knew that though cause you have a paid subscription to some scouting site or….something….I guess? I’m sure that subscription has gotten you far in your life.

Is that the same scouting site that had Tubelis, Mathurin and Kerr all ranked lower than Kaluma in their respective class? Three freshman who started on an above .500 team? Three freshman still on the team next year now as sophmores?

.500 is written in stone my man, don’t fight it.

Not fighting it but if you quote me do it accurately with the conditions I stated. Then put in stone your famous declarations like Brown is shit.
Not sure why you have made this so personal. Maybe you just don't like people questioning your opinion on this site. We know you have never been wrong.

[gronk4heisman]

Not fighting it but if you quote me do it accurately with the conditions I stated.

If we have a "starting spot" for this guy we are a .500 team. Hope that was just a slip of the tongue.

There, you are quoted. That is posted as a certainty. If Kaluma starts we will be .500. That is not posted as an opinion, as a guess, as a possibility. Just a certainty, so no one is misrepresenting you.

[TheCat]

Not sure why you are so high on this guy. First of all if you watch the clips he walked almost every time he was making a move. If you think he is a better defender in those clips than Koloko then we just disagree on what he currently brings to the table. His offensive upside is not next year and he will not average 10 a game unless he is playing 25+ minutes. Hope not.
You are looking at a team right now with no point guard that makes others better. In other words cannot drive the ball against other teams. Kerr does not have the strength. Love his scrappiness on defense and drawing charges but was nothing but a 3 point shooter on offense. What would this team be record wise with out our former point guard (even though I thought he shot to much)? I would guess at best .500.
Next year depends how we finish the recruiting season and how the head coach does in tight situations.

A) You're paraphrasing Spiff's post on the game that he watched

B) He's a quickly developing combo forward known for his defense but who shows signs of passing ability and an outside shooting stroke - its the most desirable kind of player behind a talented point guard. The versatility that he could bring because of his ability to defend 3-5 and to stretch the floor or create off the dribble on offense... it's a game changer. He fits in any line-up. Tyler Bey is a good comp, I think, in terms of what he could become for us. Or like Rondae if he was only good on D instead of crazy good but could dribble, pass, and hit a jumpshot.

C) Kaluma vs Koloko is a weird argument that I'm not sure anyone is making since there's really no overlap in their positions and skills sets (besides what I think Kaluma could do as a small ball 5 / part of two small ball posts playing together).

I like the optimism that we have so many scholarships and will get the absolute best players but Kaluma previously committed to UNLV and I didn't hear one word of disappointment that an Arizona player went elsewhere.

Probably because he’s not from Arizona and Sean Miller didn’t recruit him prior because he had zero shot to land him. You knew that though cause you have a paid subscription to some scouting site or….something….I guess? I’m sure that subscription has gotten you far in your life.

I know he is originally from Irvin Texas (hence the Houston Hoops) but played in Arizona. You might try a paid subscription it might broaden your horizons, expand your player evaluations and polish your professionalism.
As far as my station in life goes you can only guess but we know what yours is. LOL. Thanks for keeping us amused.

[Irish27]

I like turtles.

I like trains.

[Alieberman]

i love the off-season!!!!

[ChooChooCat]

I like turtles.

I like trains.

Uh oh…

[UAEebs86]

[ChooChooCat]

[dmjcat]

Perhaps we should first wait to see if we actually sign Kaluma before offering up predictions on next seasons winning percentage??

Must be the offseason

[Robert A Booey]

I am surprised that we are losing players to Saint Mary's and Fresno State that would be getting significant minutes here. And we just lost a decommit to Vanderbilt.

[Postmaster]

Is Lloyd running a fast paced offense or a dump it into post and make refs call 3-second calls?

[BeardownZonaZona]

Is it bad I actually think it's good for Dezonie and Simpson to leave? I really liked both their games but they were recruited by the previous regime and were promised things by CSM. Let's say CSM told Dezonie you're getting 25 minutes a game. I doubt it but let's pretend. Then this year CTL plays him like garbage time or a very small role in the rotation. Boom, ya got a transfer. Without the instant transfer rule next year, it'd be hard to retool the team as I'm expecting Tubelis and Mathurin will be for sure gone. Ya get Tyty he's gone. Maybe Terry surprises or someone else does and they leave. Throw in a transfer from Dezonie and Simpson and you gotta retool your roster in April without a free transfer year. That'd be a ton of minutes gone and would lead to a dumpster fire year. Not only would we lose some of our top players, we'd also lose guys we were trying to develop. I actually think it's smart to let Lloyd pretty much bring in his own recruiting class. That way he can make the promises he needs to make, and honors them. Sucks but I get it. Hope we land the handful we're targeting as that'd be a great squad to start your tenure with

[ChooChooCat]

I am surprised that we are losing players to Saint Mary's and Fresno State that would be getting significant minutes here. And we just lost a decommit to Vanderbilt.

We’re losing them specifically because they wouldn’t be getting enough significant minutes here.

[Robert A Booey]

I am surprised that we are losing players to Saint Mary's and Fresno State that would be getting significant minutes here. And we just lost a decommit to Vanderbilt.

We’re losing them specifically because they wouldn’t be getting enough significant minutes here.

I think they would have got good minutes especially with Akinjo and Terrell Brown leaving.

[EastCoastCat]

I am surprised that we are losing players to Saint Mary's and Fresno State that would be getting significant minutes here. And we just lost a decommit to Vanderbilt.

We’re losing them specifically because they wouldn’t be getting enough significant minutes here.

I think they would have got good minutes especially with Akinjo and Terrell Brown leaving.

I think the point is they are not good enough for minutes here.

[Dave]

Moving forward I think the end result will be a lot less roster turnover and more player development.

[RondaeShimmy]

Trying to find video

No luck

[Spaceman Spiff]

Moving forward I think the end result will be a lot less roster turnover and more player development.

I mean, not to be a wet blanket, but it's hard to assume that yet when our biggest recruiting target is pretty well guaranteed one and done and Tubelis and Mathurin are probably gone after next year.

The 3 post-FBI years were constant resets, and I'd expect better than that. Year 1 under Lloyd will have more turnover than it would have with Miller, although that's expected. From there on out, I'd expect 2010-2018 levels.

I sort of go back and forth on player development. I think it's an area people consistently underestimated the Miller era in. Gonzaga's done well, but Lloyd's recruiting at Arizona hasn't the sort of player Gonzaga's done best in the development realm with.

Gonzaga's best development stories were unranked or international players. At Arizona, Lloyd's focus from what we know seems more top 50 American players, which I'd classify as the major category of players that will transfer the most, or leave for the NBA if they perform well.

[SCCats]

Moving forward I think the end result will be a lot less roster turnover and more player development.

Me too.

[TheCat]

Not sure with the new transfer rules we will ever see the stability of the past. Don't have any idea how coaches will adapt and spend their time in the future. You had a ungodly amount of folks in the transfer portal. Will recruiting change to just looking at the portal for proven players and let others uncover the hidden gems? I think this will affect fans also as they will not be as invested in players moving forward.

[RondaeShimmy]

Looks like a 247 analyst put a crystal ball for Kentucky

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not sure with the new transfer rules we will ever see the stability of the past. Don't have any idea how coaches will adapt and spend their time in the future. You had a ungodly amount of folks in the transfer portal. Will recruiting change to just looking at the portal for proven players and let others uncover the hidden gems? I think this will affect fans also as they will not be as invested in players moving forward.

I agree, and I think Arizona fans tend to lose sight of the national picture, where we're far from alone in player movement.

Gonzaga seems a natural comparison point. I left aside the two most recent years to exclude Covid and weird transfer rules and counted the # of guys who had eligibility, and the guys in that group who left.

18-19 into 19-20, they had 6 players with eligibility remaining. 3 left, 3 stayed.

17-18 into 18-19, they had 8 players with eligibility remaining. 2 left, 6 stayed.

So, about 35% of their roster in those two years left with eligibility remaining. It's a national issue.

[Beachcat97]

Looks like a 247 analyst put a crystal ball for Kentucky

Is said analyst a UK columnist?

[RondaeShimmy]

Looks like a 247 analyst put a crystal ball for Kentucky

Is said analyst a UK columnist?

His bio says "247 sports National Basketball Analyst"

Although since Daniels and Gershon left, the national analysts aren't the same as those guys

I'll wait to see who Bossi and Meyer pick

[Spaceman Spiff]

Looks like a 247 analyst put a crystal ball for Kentucky

Is said analyst a UK columnist?

His bio says "247 sports National Basketball Analyst"

Although since Daniels and Gershon left, the national analysts aren't the same as those guys.

When does this website start handing out formal titles like that?

[ChooChooCat]

Kentucky is basically telling every one they’re getting him.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Scheer said if he cared about the accuracy for crystal balls, he would also change his crystal ball prediction to Kentucky. Not bueno

[RondaeShimmy]

Who's plan B?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Who's plan B?

Acceptance? It depends on what stage you're at personally and emotions are fluid.

[BeardownZonaZona]

More names will come into the portal. We'll be fine. Sahvir Wheeler is still out there. Marcus Carr is going through the nba process but I doubt he stays and he'd probably be the best option, he's a proven star. More names will see us looking for point guards and jump in the portal. We'll have options. Always the possibility of trying to snag a euro point guard. I don't think our roster will be set until July or August in all honesty. There's going to be a ton of quality players jumping in the portal in the summer. Lots of great options

[Beachcat97]

Who's plan B?

Choo's made some comments about transfers or Euros.

Plan B would be a steep drop off from Tyty, I think.

[gronk4heisman]

If Kerr is our starting PG, my expectations for the season go down quite a bit. I know we are still in on Pelle and probably will step it up on Cook and Hickman, but they are all big drops from Tyty. Pelle and Hickman would probably be better for future stability though.

[BeardownZonaZona]

There's about zero chance Kerr will be our starting one guard. We'll get a transfer if we miss on Tyty. We'll be fine

[RondaeShimmy]

I knew Kentucky got tyty as soon as they got Chin from Illinois as an assistant.

Done deal.

[Chicat]

Feels a lot like we've squandered any momentum from hiring Tommy Boy and putting together the staff. Got the initial transfer and 2022 commitment but since then it's been a steady drip of kids leaving and nothing else.

[Merkin]

If Kerr is our starting PG, my expectations for the season go down quite a bit. I know we are still in on Pelle and probably will step it up on Cook and Hickman, but they are all big drops from Tyty. Pelle and Hickman would probably be better for future stability though.

I can't even imagine Kerr as PG, except maybe to spell the starting PG. Cats, like most teams, needs a PG who can drive to the basket, and either get fouled, dish off to the open man when help comes over, or make a good close to the rim shot attempt.

I forgot Kriisa's percentage of shot attempts near the rim, but it's very low compared to Akinjo's.

Kerr attempts 0.5 2PT attempts per game, 4.8 3PT attempts. https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pl ... isa-1.html

[RondaeShimmy]

Marcus Carr was supposed to be going to Kentucky

Arizona should jump on him

[BeardownZonaZona]

Coaching staff still thinks they can get Tyty. He's still gonna meet with Lloyd everyday via zoom. It's really just Kentucky running their mouth. Likely trying to peer pressure Tyty. We still definitely have a shot at Tyty. If we didn't, we wouldn't be meeting with him everyday still. Kansas hasn't met with him for a couple days now. If it's made apparent we aren't getting him, even if it's before the announcement, we will start contacting transfers. If we don't start contacting transfers before his announcement, we definitely have a shot

[Spaceman Spiff]

There's about zero chance Kerr will be our starting one guard. We'll get a transfer if we miss on Tyty. We'll be fine

Wasn't this sort of the line when Simpson decommitted, then when Dezonie decommitted and then again when Akinjo left?

The idea there's talent on the horizon, well, Tyty was clearly what we were leaning on.

I'll be real, since Lloyd took over, we've lost Brown, Akinjo, Simpson and Dezonie and added Ballo. That's not a good add/loss ratio. Maybe he makes it up, but the longer it takes, the harder it is to convince me it's an actual plan and not desperately patching holes.