The 2021-2022 Season Thread

[84Cat]

[loomer]

[Jefe]

I have 4 extra Red Blue tickets in row 11 sec 4 if anyone's interested. Right behind our bench

[Postmaster]

I hope the key is Adia and not Ari.
But I watched 3 games last season of the women’s team.
That is three more than my total in all seasons combined.

Edit: I think I watched a Red/Blue game once because they played before the men’s game.

[Spaceman Spiff]

That is also what Jedd Fisch does sometimes, like the middle of the 2nd quarter through middle of the 4th vs NAU.

[HiCat]

Thanks for posting this Loomer. Coach seems like a good guy, he's got a friendly way about him. We'll see if
this translates into wins on the court at game time.

[84Cat]

[Beachcat97]

Anyone happen to know when tickets for individual games go on sale? Gonna try to catch them at Galen and Pauley.

[Beachcat97]

https://www.denverpost.com/2021/09/30/p ... -and-more/

[Chicat]

Yeah, gonna have to mark it as “still waiting” as far as Lloyd’s first true recruiting coup for Arizona. Obviously he re-recruited a couple of current UA players and has gotten some transfers during what was an unprecedented transfer atmosphere, but we are still waiting on Tommy to go head to head against a bunch of other schools for a high school stud and land that whale.

Jaden Bradley is deciding very soon.

Still waiting…

[Beachcat97]

Shit...

https://twitter.com/BamaOnLine247/statu ... 41414?s=20

[RawleArenas]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

[IndianaZonaFan]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

[gronk4heisman]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Better hope Tubelis and Ben stay or 22-23 could be a very down year at this rate.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

If Lloyd can't recruit until 2023, we ****ed up bad.

Losing Bradley...when does losing out become the norm for Lloyd? We heard about how Tyty and Kaluma were ok because they were last minute things, but Bradley was a significant target Lloyd's had his whole tenure here on.

The longer this goes losing out on all big recruits...I mean, our #7 national class is just becoming sophomores. We won these battles up until a few months ago.

[YoDeFoe]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

If Lloyd can't recruit until 2023, we ****ed up bad.

Losing Bradley...when does losing out become the norm for Lloyd? We heard about how Tyty and Kaluma were ok because they were last minute things, but Bradley was a significant target Lloyd's had his whole tenure here on.

The longer this goes losing out on all big recruits...I mean, our #7 national class is just becoming sophomores. We won these battles up until a few months ago.

Alabama has been on Bradley since 2019. Lloyd was on Bradley less than a single offseason.

I'm not saying that to excuse anything. I'm not. This losing out on recruits shit sucks.

But "his whole tenure" ...let's have the right perspective.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

If Lloyd can't recruit until 2023, we ****ed up bad.

Losing Bradley...when does losing out become the norm for Lloyd? We heard about how Tyty and Kaluma were ok because they were last minute things, but Bradley was a significant target Lloyd's had his whole tenure here on.

The longer this goes losing out on all big recruits...I mean, our #7 national class is just becoming sophomores. We won these battles up until a few months ago.

Alabama has been on Bradley since 2019. Lloyd was on Bradley less than a single offseason.

I'm not saying that to excuse anything. I'm not. This losing out on recruits shit sucks.

But "his whole tenure" ...let's have the right perspective.

By that logic, Lloyd won't be competing for two years.

I'm just not particularly happy we fired Miller period and to fire him for someone...well, you'd think the point of a replacement is that he effectively targets talented guys he can get in 2022. If Lloyd is recruiting guys he has no hope of making ground up on, isn't that on him too?

I feel like this is Arizona and you need to win these battles, not have appropriate perspective on why you lost. It isn't like this unusual idea Lloyd is new. It's what the situation was from Day 1.

[YoDeFoe]

Spiff I'm not saying we need to be on a guy for two years to compete with the guys who have been, but seriously: Tommy Lloyd was recuiting for a different program less than six months ago. Same with Coach Rob. Our staff legit just got here. I'm not happy to lose on these guys, not making excuses. Losing is bad. But if we're wondering why it's not a completely nebulous.

[DrWildcat]

I'm not going to worry about recruiting banners as the only thing those have led to over the years is disappointment.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Spiff I'm not saying we need to be on a guy for two years to compete with the guys who have been, but seriously: Tommy Lloyd was recuiting for a different program less than six months ago. Same with Coach Rob. Our staff legit just got here. I'm not happy to lose on these guys, not making excuses. Losing is bad. But if we're wondering why it's not a completely nebulous.

Lloyd was recruiting Bradley at Gonzaga and Robinson was recruting him at UNC and Bradley had both on his official visit list.

More to the point, how many recruits do we lead for, get crystal ball picks for, then lose out on before it becomes an issue? I obviously have less sympathy and Lloyd and Robinson having recruited Bradley for the same basic period as Alabama is a big reason why.

Tyty and Kaluma both decommitted and reopened their recruiting after Lloyd was hired. That's basically the same scenario Miller used to score Derrick Williams and Solomon Hill.

I don't think it's odd to expect recruiting wins, especially from a coach who says he's going to be selective in offers. If you don't offer many kids, the need to sign the ones you do offer is higher, IMO.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not going to worry about recruiting banners as the only thing those have led to over the years is disappointment.

I'm going to disagree with you here.

I only went back 10 years, but 9 of the last 10 teams to win an NCAA championship had multiple top 50 recruits on their team. The majority of teams also had multiple top 20 recruits.

Right now, Dalen Terry is our only top 50 recruit and we don't have a guy who'd be a second top 50 recruit incoming. So historically, we don't have the talent level to win a NC.

[ChooChooCat]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Better hope Tubelis and Ben stay or 22-23 could be a very down year at this rate.

In a world where we still have Kerr, Pelle, and Dalen, we’re doing just fine in 2022-23. The post will be fine that season as well, trust me.

Now we have to land our targets in the 2023 class, but the IARP should be behind us then and we are putting work into that class more so than we’ve been able to work the 2022 class.

[DrWildcat]

I'm not going to worry about recruiting banners as the only thing those have led to over the years is disappointment.

I'm going to disagree with you here.

I only went back 10 years, but 9 of the last 10 teams to win an NCAA championship had multiple top 50 recruits on their team. The majority of teams also had multiple top 20 recruits.

Right now, Dalen Terry is our only top 50 recruit and we don't have a guy who'd be a second top 50 recruit incoming. So historically, we don't have the talent level to win a NC.

We wouldn't with Miller either, I don't remember everyone complaining then. Maybe I'm wrong, but it just feels like people are complaining to complain. I just want to see how this season goes and get the IARP ruling out of the way.

[RawleArenas]

I'm not sure if I understand your post. This year's team would have been Miller's best in terms of depth, experience and guard play. That team was locked and loaded and ready to compete with anyone. I was really excited to see us getting back to squashing teams in our conference like Oregon and UCLA.

I'm not a fan of taking a wait and see approach to the IARP. No other team (OSU, LSU, Auburn/Kansas(not in the same situation but under heavy scrutiny and/or future penalties) and USC) is waiting to hear back from the powers that be to decide to their jobs. When you come to a big time program, that's what you sign up for: big personalities, crazy politics and outrageous expectations. When you fire a coach as good as our last one, I want you to show me quickly why we hired you. I want a 'WOW' experience, especially when you forcibly lowered the ceiling on this year's team.

Coming to here to Arizona, many of us were expecting the new coach to come in ready to impress and hit the ground running, but as far as I can see he's only been hitting the ground.

[ChooChooCat]

I'm not sure if I understand your post. This year's team would have been Miller's best in terms of depth, experience and guard play. That team was locked and loaded and ready to compete with anyone. I was really excited to see us getting back to squashing teams in our conference like Oregon and UCLA.

I'm not a fan of taking a wait and see approach to the IARP. No other team (OSU, LSU, Auburn/Kansas(not in the same situation but under heavy scrutiny and/or future penalties) and USC) is waiting to hear back from the powers that be to decide to their jobs. When you come to a big time program, that's what you sign up for: big personalities, crazy politics and outrageous expectations. When you fire a coach as good as our last one, I want you to show me quickly why we hired you. I want a 'WOW' experience, especially when you forcibly lowered the ceiling on this year's team.

Coming to here to Arizona, many of us were expecting the new coach to come in ready to impress and hit the ground running, but as far as I can see he's only been hitting the ground.

All of those schools stood by their coach and we didn’t. USC and Okie State are already done with their sanctions as well.

[TheCat]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Better hope Tubelis and Ben stay or 22-23 could be a very down year at this rate.

In a world where we still have Kerr, Pelle, and Dalen, we’re doing just fine in 2022-23. The post will be fine that season as well, trust me.

Now we have to land our targets in the 2023 class, but the IARP should be behind us then and we are putting work into that class more so than we’ve been able to work the 2022 class.

IARP has not stopped other teams from landing good recruits (see Kansas which has a ton of allegations against it) .This excuse is wearing a bit thin at times when others seem to have overcome it. Kerr, Pelle and Dalen are not going to bring a PAC-12 championship to Ariz. Maybe you have reason to be optimistic but I am seeing struggle and excuses.

[YoDeFoe]

It's as simple as what Choo just said: Arizona's AD and admin allowed us to become the face of the scandal, and they yanked the rug out from under the program (and Miller) repeatedly. Suspending Miller in 2018, failing to provide him an extension, self sanctioning mid-season, and then firing him after the off season had already begun.

No other school is in the same boat as Arizona, in terms of the level of shit we've been in - largely in my opinion due to the failures of the AD and admin. Kansas should be the face of this thing with the repeated violations, the wrecked car, the brawl and the hoisted chair, the text messages, the Adidas relationship, the money chain and the Snoop and strippers celebration.

Arizona was the only program to hang its head (and head coach) in shame. We're still paying for it.

[YoDeFoe]

IARP has not stopped other teams from landing good recruits (see Kansas which has a ton of allegations against it) .This excuse is wearing a bit thin at times when others seem to have overcome it. Kerr, Pelle and Dalen are not going to bring a PAC-12 championship to Ariz. Maybe you have reason to be optimistic but I am seeing struggle and excuses.

Is Bill Self still the head coach at KU?

Additionally, it's not like Self hasn't been impacted - he's had just one top 50 recruit in the past three seasons - and that player (Bryce Thompson) has since transferred.

Let's stick with reality.

[DrWildcat]

I'm not sure if I understand your post. This year's team would have been Miller's best in terms of depth, experience and guard play. That team was locked and loaded and ready to compete with anyone. I was really excited to see us getting back to squashing teams in our conference like Oregon and UCLA.

I'm not a fan of taking a wait and see approach to the IARP. No other team (OSU, LSU, Auburn/Kansas(not in the same situation but under heavy scrutiny and/or future penalties) and USC) is waiting to hear back from the powers that be to decide to their jobs. When you come to a big time program, that's what you sign up for: big personalities, crazy politics and outrageous expectations. When you fire a coach as good as our last one, I want you to show me quickly why we hired you. I want a 'WOW' experience, especially when you forcibly lowered the ceiling on this year's team.

Coming to here to Arizona, many of us were expecting the new coach to come in ready to impress and hit the ground running, but as far as I can see he's only been hitting the ground.

Miller's best? Really? Were you expecting a FF or NC next year with Miller? I certainly wasn't, S16 was probably the ceiling. The McConnell teams were significantly better than the current team and its not even close. We would have needed significant development from the team to actually be in the conversation for a FF.

We can't pretend like the spotlight (ESPN, true or not) wasn't on us over these other teams that got caught up in the FBI stuff. We need that ruling out of the way more than most. Plus, didn't we have additional level 1 violations on our NOI over just the Book FBI stuff? That is if we truly want to compared our possible sanctions to others. I'm not familiar with all of the schools, but it seemed like that was the case. Also, USC and OSU already receive their sanctions as others have said. Oh and our administration sucks so we have to take that into account as well, I'm sure we will take any punishment lying down.

I get that the expectations are high at Arizona. I personally expect FF and NC, something Miller never did in the decade he was here. I'm just not ready to panic over these current recruiting misses at this point. Now if the team sucks on the court then that's a different story.

[RawleArenas]

The laundry list of violations from Kansas is far worse than what we're dealing with, especially since we've already self-sanctioned. Again, I wholly disagree with the idea that we need to wait before we decide how we are going to operate as a program. We have tons of smart people within our administration who have access to consultants and legal personnel that can help them effectively hedge against any future penalties. So in my mind, this whole obsession is a non starter.

Now, on behalf of this year's team I can't take your assessment seriously. We had four all conference players and a top 25 recruiting class coming in. We would have returned all of our important players on team that likely would have made a sweet sixteen this past year if we had not forfeited our postseason. The 2014 and 2015 had bad luck and depth issues that prevented it from capturing a title. This team didn't. We had the reigning Pac 12 sixth man of the year, Tubelis, Aiken and Koloko (who is presumed to be all conference caliber as well) Kriisa and first year guard KJ Simpson who I was really high on and still think he would have been another Miller development success story. Miller was also looking to add another big for depth. Looking at the teams that did well this past year from the Pac like Oregon State, Colorado and USC, two of them which made the elite 8, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that this years team would be fully capable of making a deep run, considering our team would have been FAR stronger and deeper than those. That team wasn't a project, they needed some experience which they have now and were fully ready to make noise this year. That's why they were ranked #15 preseason.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people are so down on Miller that they are ready to rewrite his history, no matter how far they have to stretch the facts.

[DrWildcat]

The laundry list of violations from Kansas is far worse than what we're dealing with, especially since we've already self-sanctioned. Again, I wholly disagree with the idea that we need to wait before we decide how we are going to operate as a program. We have tons of smart people within our administration who have access to consultants and legal personnel that can help them effectively hedge against any future penalties. So in my mind, this whole obsession is a non starter.

Now, on behalf of this year's team I can't take your assessment seriously. We had four all conference players and a top 25 recruiting class coming in. We would have returned all of our important players on team that likely would have made a sweet sixteen this past year if we had not forfeited our postseason. The 2014 and 2015 had bad luck and depth issues that prevented it from capturing a title. This team didn't. We had the reigning Pac 12 sixth man of the year, Tubelis, Aiken and Koloko (who is presumed to be all conference caliber as well) Kriisa and first year guard KJ Simpson who I was really high on and still think he would have been another Miller development success story. Miller was also looking to add another big for depth. Looking at the teams that did well this past year from the Pac like Oregon State, Colorado and USC, two of them which made the elite 8, it's perfectly reasonable to expect that this years team would be fully capable of making a deep run, considering our team would have been FAR stronger and deeper than those. That team wasn't a project, they needed some experience which they have now and were fully ready to make noise this year. That's why they were ranked #15 preseason.

Sometimes I get the feeling that people are so down on Miller that they are ready to rewrite his history, no matter how far they have to stretch the facts.

I agree on Kansas but the media loves them and Self so they really haven't had that spotlight on them. Plus Kansas is a better program and the administration basically told the NCAA to F off. Add all that up and their recruiting has still been down over what it was in the past.

You said Millers best, not me, and thats just not a justifiable claim IMO. I said S16 was ceiling which falls in line with that preseason 15. Sure they may get better through the season but other teams will too. And of course they could make a run but I don't think it would be the expectation.

Miller had some great teams, no question about that, but I differ on that rewrite history statement in I think people forget how disappointing his teams have been of late. Some of that is on the FBI/ESPN/Book stuff but Miller had a role in that.

[BBQ wildcat]

Miller was fired to supposedly "improve" our program. UA was a projected top #15 to #20 program for 2022/23. THAT is what Miller left Tommy. My expectation is that we will have AT LEAST a top #25 team this. If not, then our program will not have improved. Sean Miller was 302-109 (.735) overall at Arizona and 150-68 (.688) in conference. And in his first 4 years, he had an elite 8 and a sweet 16, an overall 69% winning percentage and a 67% conference winning percentage. So if Miller was fired and Tommy hired to improve the program, we should expect numbers better than those from Tommy. Particularly since Miller left the roster in much better shape than the one he inherited.

Don't call me a "naysayer". I just want to see results and I haven't seen impressive recruiting results so far and Tommy hasn't won a game here, much less completed a season. I guess you could call me a "show-me'er"

[ChooChooCat]

You can only feast for so long on last year's leftovers. So far our new coach has whiffed on every major recruit (Sharpe, Tyty, Kaluma Bradley). All of the talk about systems and process won't matter if he can't make it happen on the recruiting trail.

I honestly wouldn’t expect that until the ‘23 class (after recruits get a chance to see a product on the floor, and hopefully infractions in the rear view)

Better hope Tubelis and Ben stay or 22-23 could be a very down year at this rate.

In a world where we still have Kerr, Pelle, and Dalen, we’re doing just fine in 2022-23. The post will be fine that season as well, trust me.

Now we have to land our targets in the 2023 class, but the IARP should be behind us then and we are putting work into that class more so than we’ve been able to work the 2022 class.

IARP has not stopped other teams from landing good recruits (see Kansas which has a ton of allegations against it) .This excuse is wearing a bit thin at times when others seem to have overcome it. Kerr, Pelle and Dalen are not going to bring a PAC-12 championship to Ariz. Maybe you have reason to be optimistic but I am seeing struggle and excuses.

Recruits know what they’re getting with with Bill Self and KU made it very clear from the start that he was going NOWHERE. Kansas and Arizona were in completely different worlds with their coaching situations.

The recruiting pitch against Arizona was primarily “Sean Miller is going to get fired any day now” and has since shifted to “You don’t know what kind of coach Tommy Lloyd is or what his system is like.”

[azgreg]

I adore Arizona fans.

[ChooChooCat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

[azgreg]

That's quite a statement.

[TheCat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.

[ChooChooCat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.

Please point to me where I said Sean lied to every player he’s ever coached. Just because Miller didn’t lie to every single player he coached doesn’t mean he didn’t lie to land a recruit for something as simple of a reason as to prevent a guy from going to a rival school.

Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here.

[dovecanyoncat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

Now that's damned quotable.

[Chicat]

He better learn to fucking lie. Because choir boys hope for NIT invites.

[BBQ wildcat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

I know you know a lot about the program and have inside info. And we appreciate the info you bring But I call bullshit on that statement. Is there any way you can back it up, other than to say "believe me"? Because branding Miller a liar and Tommy a saint smacks of having a hate/love blinder on.

[Dave]

Coach, what kind of minutes do you think I will be getting my first year?
Miller: Starter minutes. I would be really surprised if you weren't starting.
Lloyd: None. I think your game needs a lot of work. I think a possible redshirt year would do wonders for your game.
Can I expect to play in the tournament next year?
Miller: Yes. 100%
Lloyd: We are not sure. It could be a one year post season band or more. Whatever it is we will make the best of it.

[EastCoastCat]

[TheCat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.

Please point to me where I said Sean lied to every player he’s ever coached. Just because Miller didn’t lie to every single player he coached doesn’t mean he didn’t lie to land a recruit for something as simple of a reason as to prevent a guy from going to a rival school.

Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here.

Choo quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about. You have NO idea what Sean has said to a player or his family. You bit off more than you can chew, got called on it and it is best just to move on from this. It doesn't help your credibility.

[ChooChooCat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.

Please point to me where I said Sean lied to every player he’s ever coached. Just because Miller didn’t lie to every single player he coached doesn’t mean he didn’t lie to land a recruit for something as simple of a reason as to prevent a guy from going to a rival school.

Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here.

Choo quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about. You have NO idea what Sean has said to a player or his family. You bit off more than you can chew, got called on it and it is best just to move on from this. It doesn't help your credibility.

Ok I don't know what I'm talking about. Sean Miller is a saint who would never lie to anyone, you got me bud.

You calling me out, because I said something you don't liike doesn't make you right, you know that right? For the record, I don't care about credibility. You can believe me or not, I don't give a shit.

[ChooChooCat]

Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:

Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.

I know you know a lot about the program and have inside info. And we appreciate the info you bring But I call bullshit on that statement. Is there any way you can back it up, other than to say "believe me"? Because branding Miller a liar and Tommy a saint smacks of having a hate/love blinder on.

I didn't brand Sean Miller a liar. I said he was willing to lie to land recruits. You literally need to lie to land recruits sometimes. Creighton lied to Arthur Kaluma and told him he was a small forward to land him for instance. You took my words and used them to personally brand Sean Miller as a liar and Tommy a saint. I'm branding Sean Miller a smart recruiter and Tommy a naive one.

Also how do you want me to provide proof to you? Do you expect me to get screen shots of Sean Miller's texts or something? I suppose I can point to you the amount of early transfers Sean had during his tenure here at Arizona?

You need to lie to land recruits sometimes. It's part of the business. Sean was more than willing to do that when the situation called for it. Tommy to this point has not. Those are the facts. Choose to believe them or not. I don't care.

For the record, I don't hate Sean Miller and I don't love Tommy Lloyd. I think Sean Miller's time at Arizona had come to a reasonable end and holding on to him was nothing more than "staying together for the kids," which is something I believe is stupid. I like what I believe Tommy Lloyd can be and what I believe his basketball teams will look like. Nothing less and nothing more.

[IndianaZonaFan]

Lmao. I have never seen anything Choo said come back to not be true as it pertains to our program. The fact he’s getting called out is laughable. The only way he could prove his side is to post a video of both coaches talking to recruits and you know it. Sorry if what he said hurt your feelings. I’m a Miller guy. I can see where what Choo is true. It’s what most good recruiters do. Tommy’s way is good too, just 2 different sides of the spectrum. And I’m with Choo…a LITTLE lying couldn’t hurt.

Choo’s also not branding Miller a flat out liar. Just saying he might gas up a recruit to get a commitment.

[ChooChooCat]

Choo’s also not branding Miller a flat out liar. Just saying he might gas up a recruit to get a commitment.

Seriously, how anyone took the statement that Sean Miller was willing to lie to land recruits as "Sean Miller is a notorious liar" is beyond me. He's a college basketball coach who also has to be a salesman. Lying is part of the job sometimes. Welcome to reality guys.

[Alieberman]

Sean Miller once told me to Bear Down. I honestly thought he was sincere at the time… but now I don’t know what to think…

[ChooChooCat]

Sean Miller once told me to Bear Down. I honestly thought he was sincere at the time… but now I don’t know what to think…

Thank god Sean Miller isn't your doctor right?