Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:24 am
Sean Miller once told me to Bear Down. I honestly thought he was sincere at the time… but now I don’t know what to think…
Thank god Sean Miller isn't your doctor right?
Fuck that. I wish he was…
“Look, I’m going to give it to you straight. All of your organs are failing and you have literally hours to live. But on the bright side, you have all the makings of an all-conference point guard and I wouldn’t be surprised to see you starting on this team sooner rather than later.”
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm
Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:
Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.
I know you know a lot about the program and have inside info. And we appreciate the info you bring But I call bullshit on that statement. Is there any way you can back it up, other than to say "believe me"? Because branding Miller a liar and Tommy a saint smacks of having a hate/love blinder on.
I didn't brand Sean Miller a liar. I said he was willing to lie to land recruits. You literally need to lie to land recruits sometimes. Creighton lied to Arthur Kaluma and told him he was a small forward to land him for instance. You took my words and used them to personally brand Sean Miller as a liar and Tommy a saint. I'm branding Sean Miller a smart recruiter and Tommy a naive one.
Also how do you want me to provide proof to you? Do you expect me to get screen shots of Sean Miller's texts or something? I suppose I can point to you the amount of early transfers Sean had during his tenure here at Arizona?
You need to lie to land recruits sometimes. It's part of the business. Sean was more than willing to do that when the situation called for it. Tommy to this point has not. Those are the facts. Choose to believe them or not. I don't care.
For the record, I don't hate Sean Miller and I don't love Tommy Lloyd. I think Sean Miller's time at Arizona had come to a reasonable end and holding on to him was nothing more than "staying together for the kids," which is something I believe is stupid. I like what I believe Tommy Lloyd can be and what I believe his basketball teams will look like. Nothing less and nothing more.
Think it's also very plausible Sean is describing hopeful and obviously unsure projections to recruits, showing that AZ likes their potential to help the program. Not sure I'd categorize that as lying.
No one really knows what a high school kid will bring in the future, with all kinds of things that can inhibit potential like maturity, commitment, mental toughness etc...
Lying to obtain a recruit knowing he won't be a usable piece, seems to be a waste of time and valuable roster spots.
Would imagine every recruit and coach know that the convo about future playing time is all projection. Pretty sure Choir boy Tommy would also present positive leaning projections for targeted recruits.
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:29 pm
Look if you want to know the primary difference between Miller and Lloyd when it comes to recruiting it’s this:
Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie.
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Sean's players stood by him and came here when they didn't have to. Tommy Lloyd doesn't lie. How do you know what he is telling folks or what Sean told folks. Quit making shit up because you didn't like Miller. You need another break.
Please point to me where I said Sean lied to every player he’s ever coached. Just because Miller didn’t lie to every single player he coached doesn’t mean he didn’t lie to land a recruit for something as simple of a reason as to prevent a guy from going to a rival school.
Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here.
Choo quite frankly you don't know what you are talking about. You have NO idea what Sean has said to a player or his family. You bit off more than you can chew, got called on it and it is best just to move on from this. It doesn't help your credibility.
Ok I don't know what I'm talking about. Sean Miller is a saint who would never lie to anyone, you got me bud.
You calling me out, because I said something you don't liike doesn't make you right, you know that right? For the record, I don't care about credibility. You can believe me or not, I don't give a shit.
I called you out because you have no idea what you are talking about. Period. We have had many players state they were not promised anything. Somehow you think you know what Miller was saying and what CTM says. That is just bullshit and everyone including you knows it.
I never said Sean was a saint. In fact he would pull a player out of a game if he made an obvious mistake which I thought sometimes unfairly embarrassed the player. If you got in his dog house it was hard getting out. Calling a coach a liar is damaging to the coach especially when you just made it up.
Well I'm glad creditability means nothing to you. That should take you far in life. Another idiot statement. Quit while you are ahead and take a break.
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
And in my follow up post...
"Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here."
and another follow up post...
"I'm branding Sean Miller a smart recruiter and Tommy a naive one."
But please do tell me how that statement was negative about Sean Miller.
Last edited by ChooChooCat on Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TheCat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:42 am
I called you out because you have no idea what you are talking about. Period. We have had many players state they were not promised anything. Somehow you think you know what Miller was saying and what CTM says. That is just bullshit and everyone including you knows it.
I never said Sean was a saint. In fact he would pull a player out of a game if he made an obvious mistake which I thought sometimes unfairly embarrassed the player. If you got in his dog house it was hard getting out. Calling a coach a liar is damaging to the coach especially when you just made it up.
Well I'm glad creditability means nothing to you. That should take you far in life. Another idiot statement. Quit while you are ahead and take a break.
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
And in my follow up post...
"Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here."
But please do tell me how that statement was negative about Sean Miller.
Truly not trying to be argumentative but please give an example of acceptable or worthy lie for a coach?
Keep thinking anything a coach is saying to a recruit would have to be based on a future projection which could never be guaranteed.
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
And in my follow up post...
"Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here."
and another follow up post...
"I'm branding Sean Miller a smart recruiter and Tommy a naive one."
But please do tell me how that statement was negative about Sean Miller.
I commend you on your clarifications. But you should have elaborated at the outset, to make clear what your point was. Saying someone has no problem lying definitely doesn't sound like you are praising him for being a smart recruiter. And saying someone refuses to lie sure sounds more like praise to me.
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
And in my follow up post...
"Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here."
But please do tell me how that statement was negative about Sean Miller.
Truly not trying to be argumentative but please give an example of acceptable or worthy lie for a coach?
Keep thinking anything a coach is saying to a recruit would have to be based on a future projection which could never be guaranteed.
Dave covered some in his post on the last page. You can tell a guy he's going to play a position that he wants to play when having zero intentions of actually playing him there. Once you get the player signed and on campus that's 3/4 of the battle done. Once he starts practicing and such you can then convince him the way to playing time is playing this other position (the one the coach wants). When you dangle playing time in the player's face it's easier to convince them. You mentioned some other things in your posts. You can always promise immediate playing time, but later convince that player redshirting is in their best interest once they're on campus. I mean good lord how many times did Sean Miller convince recruits that he was going to run a fast paced free flowing offense? Every other guard recruiting interview had players stating as much. We know how that worked out.
The point of recruiting is to get the player on campus. You're recruiting him for a reason, whether that's to fill a hole or be a starter later or even as petty as keeping him away from a rival like I said. Some recruitments you can just sell the player on the 100% truth and others you got to bend the truth a bit. No one says coaches need to lie about every single thing to get the player on campus, but sometimes to give you that edge you have to do it. This is normal. Sean Miller isn't a bad person for doing this. Tommy Lloyd isn't a better person for not. It's just the business of the sport.
I don't understand why this is controversial or hard for some of you to understand (not taking a shot at you here ramcat).
Haven't played a single game yet, and the angst is raging!
Choo has always been a generous, credible resource on here, so I just want to point out this fact.
As for what to expect this season (recruiting and on the court), I'm going to wait till we're into '22, after games have been played and more is known about our '22 class, before critiquing the new guy.
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
And in my follow up post...
"Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here."
and another follow up post...
"I'm branding Sean Miller a smart recruiter and Tommy a naive one."
But please do tell me how that statement was negative about Sean Miller.
I commend you on your clarifications. But you should have elaborated at the outset, to make clear what your point was. Saying someone has no problem lying definitely doesn't sound like you are praising him for being a smart recruiter. And saying someone refuses to lie sure sounds more like praise to me.
I was directly responding to a post about Tommy's lack of recruiting success. I figured my post was a pretty clear indicator of a reason Tommy may be struggling on the trail a bit. Next time I'll clarify in more detail.
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
And in my follow up post...
"Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here."
But please do tell me how that statement was negative about Sean Miller.
Truly not trying to be argumentative but please give an example of acceptable or worthy lie for a coach?
Keep thinking anything a coach is saying to a recruit would have to be based on a future projection which could never be guaranteed.
Dave covered some in his post on the last page. You can tell a guy he's going to play a position that he wants to play when having zero intentions of actually playing him there. Once you get the player signed and on campus that's 3/4 of the battle done. Once he starts practicing and such you can then convince him the way to playing time is playing this other position (the one the coach wants). When you dangle playing time in the player's face it's easier to convince them. You mentioned some other things in your posts. You can always promise immediate playing time, but later convince that player redshirting is in their best interest once they're on campus. I mean good lord how many times did Sean Miller convince recruits that he was going to run a fast paced free flowing offense? Every other guard recruiting interview had players stating as much. We know how that worked out.
The point of recruiting is to get the player on campus. You're recruiting him for a reason, whether that's to fill a hole or be a starter later or even as petty as keeping him away from a rival like I said. Some recruitments you can just sell the player on the 100% truth and others you got to bend the truth a bit. No one says coaches need to lie about every single thing to get the player on campus, but sometimes to give you that edge you have to do it. This is normal. Sean Miller isn't a bad person for doing this. Tommy Lloyd isn't a better person for not. It's just the business of the sport.
I don't understand why this is controversial or hard for some of you to understand (not taking a shot at you here ramcat).
Ok, got it. Was centering more on just playing time, starting etc...which would be clear to everyone, has to be earned in practice, and be based on future outcomes that would be unknown at the time of convo.
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:52 am
I could have sworn Choo has said over and over his statement was more about Lloyd than Miller… but please continue…. We are all fascinated to keep hearing about this….
"Sean Miller had zero problem lying. Tommy Lloyd refuses to lie." sure doesn't seem like it is more about Lloyd than Miller.
And in my follow up post...
"Fwiw I think you need to lie sometimes. Tommy refuses to do so. If anything I’m slamming Tommy and not Sean here."
and another follow up post...
"I'm branding Sean Miller a smart recruiter and Tommy a naive one."
But please do tell me how that statement was negative about Sean Miller.
Nice cover we are all stupid I can't see that. LOL.
TheCat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:42 am
I called you out because you have no idea what you are talking about. Period. We have had many players state they were not promised anything. Somehow you think you know what Miller was saying and what CTM says. That is just bullshit and everyone including you knows it.
I never said Sean was a saint. In fact he would pull a player out of a game if he made an obvious mistake which I thought sometimes unfairly embarrassed the player. If you got in his dog house it was hard getting out. Calling a coach a liar is damaging to the coach especially when you just made it up.
Well I'm glad creditability means nothing to you. That should take you far in life. Another idiot statement. Quit while you are ahead and take a break.
Nobody cares.
Especially the integrity part accept maybe your wife, kids or employer. Other then that most can guess.
Why the fuck is Rich Herrera a judge for the dunk contest? You really couldn't get anyone better for his spot?
“The reality is that the hardest games to win are over teams on their home court. Teams that don’t play those games can spin it however they want, but what they’re saying is, ‘We don’t want to lose in our non conference season.’" - Sean Miller
Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:24 am
Sean Miller once told me to Bear Down. I honestly thought he was sincere at the time… but now I don’t know what to think…
Thank god Sean Miller isn't your doctor right?
Fuck that. I wish he was…
“Look, I’m going to give it to you straight. All of your organs are failing and you have literally hours to live. But on the bright side, you have all the makings of an all-conference point guard and I wouldn’t be surprised to see you starting on this team sooner rather than later.”
After the hernia check:: “”He touched the ball, he touched the ball!
AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:22 pm
Why the fuck is Rich Herrera a judge for the dunk contest? You really couldn't get anyone better for his spot?
AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:22 pm
Why the fuck is Rich Herrera a judge for the dunk contest? You really couldn't get anyone better for his spot?
1290 is official radio station and he is official ball gargler of Heeke
AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:22 pm
Why the fuck is Rich Herrera a judge for the dunk contest? You really couldn't get anyone better for his spot?
1290 is official radio station and he is official ball gargler of Heeke
Good point. Heeke doesn't exactly have a lot of buddies.
“The reality is that the hardest games to win are over teams on their home court. Teams that don’t play those games can spin it however they want, but what they’re saying is, ‘We don’t want to lose in our non conference season.’" - Sean Miller
TheCat wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:42 am
I called you out because you have no idea what you are talking about. Period. We have had many players state they were not promised anything. Somehow you think you know what Miller was saying and what CTM says. That is just bullshit and everyone including you knows it.
I never said Sean was a saint. In fact he would pull a player out of a game if he made an obvious mistake which I thought sometimes unfairly embarrassed the player. If you got in his dog house it was hard getting out. Calling a coach a liar is damaging to the coach especially when you just made it up.
Well I'm glad creditability means nothing to you. That should take you far in life. Another idiot statement. Quit while you are ahead and take a break.
Nobody cares.
Especially the integrity part accept maybe your wife, kids or employer. Other then that most can guess.
Lol watch the basketball game and get on with your life pal.
“The reality is that the hardest games to win are over teams on their home court. Teams that don’t play those games can spin it however they want, but what they’re saying is, ‘We don’t want to lose in our non conference season.’" - Sean Miller
I don't draw conclusions from Red/Blue, but still I conclude that this team won't finish 8th in conference. If they can defend (who knows?), they're going to be good.
Longhorned wrote: ↑Sat Oct 02, 2021 4:43 pm
I don't draw conclusions from Red/Blue, but still I conclude that this team won't finish 8th in conference. If they can defend (who knows?), they're going to be good.
I think this team's ultimate success hinges on Kerr.
Our post and wings are going to be great... it's all about the guards.
Agree with the positives especially Bal being a good one eventually. Two things worried me: where was Terry this whole game? When one of your teams leading scorer is a walk on in the second half that is scary. Didn't see the multiple screen offense but it is really early so hopefully that gets better.
