Exactly. I am impressed with Lloyd's coaching, after initially having been a huge skeptic. But it will be years 3 and 4 where we will really see how good he is after having all his own players.dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:45 am Tommy won't be the guy very long if he rests on Miller's laurels. I don't think he will do that, I'm just saying Tucson loyalty to a basketball coach comes with standards that must meet and bear the burden of history. It gets tougher from here.
Tommy Lloyd
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
I didn’t originally want Miller. Then I didn’t originally want Lloyd. Now I don’t know what I don’t want anymore.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
I just want someone to love me.Andre Iguodunkya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:32 am I didn’t originally want Miller. Then I didn’t originally want Lloyd. Now I don’t know what I don’t want anymore.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:35 amI just want someone to love me.Andre Iguodunkya wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 10:32 am I didn’t originally want Miller. Then I didn’t originally want Lloyd. Now I don’t know what I don’t want anymore.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Tommy is dorky and elfen.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Reminds me of David Keith.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
If a nice guy is gonna kick your ass it's best to opt for a dorky, elfen ass-kicker.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Live look in on Ricky Bobby's office:
Re: Tommy Lloyd
I think Tommy will succeed at Arizona. This year's team might have been mostly Miller's guys, but it's made up of players similar to what Gonzaga has every year. Overseas projects like Koloko and Ballo, Euros who can shoot, like Kerr and Tubelis, and athletic wings like Mathurin and Terry. Play press defense, get in passing lanes, and allow the rim protectors to cover any defensive mistakes. Then run and try for easy buckets on the other end is a great formula. Especially when you have great rim protectors like Koloko, guys who can pass like Kerr and Terry, and finishers like Mathurin. Who wouldn't want to play in this system?
Throw in full crowds at McKale, and the Arizona Basketball brand, and it's a good recipe for success.
Throw in full crowds at McKale, and the Arizona Basketball brand, and it's a good recipe for success.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
For a second there I thought you meant Keith David.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Lloyd has been helped tremendously by the defensive and rebounding philosophies instilled and taught by Sean Miller.
its like the players went to a one to two year boot camp for toughness and defense and now get to graduate to McKale Center floor and be rewarded under the lights in front of 14,000 adoring fans by playing in a free flowing and fun and care-free environment with a easy(ier) going head coach.
will be interesting to see if this can be a foundation for the players of the future, or if there will be a downward tick in the toughness factor (which was proven to me over and over again on Saturday at Illinois) in the coming seasons when Lloyd gets his own guys.
beyond being skillful and smart, this team is as tough as a bag of rusty nails...and still pissed off at their own school for the self-sanctions and are all playing like it has something to prove.
thx, Sean Miller
its like the players went to a one to two year boot camp for toughness and defense and now get to graduate to McKale Center floor and be rewarded under the lights in front of 14,000 adoring fans by playing in a free flowing and fun and care-free environment with a easy(ier) going head coach.
will be interesting to see if this can be a foundation for the players of the future, or if there will be a downward tick in the toughness factor (which was proven to me over and over again on Saturday at Illinois) in the coming seasons when Lloyd gets his own guys.
beyond being skillful and smart, this team is as tough as a bag of rusty nails...and still pissed off at their own school for the self-sanctions and are all playing like it has something to prove.
thx, Sean Miller
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
This is it.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:44 pm Lloyd has been helped tremendously by the defensive and rebounding philosophies instilled and taught by Sean Miller.
its like the players went to a one to two year boot camp for toughness and defense and now get to graduate to McKale Center floor and be rewarded under the lights in front of 14,000 adoring fans by playing in a free flowing and fun and care-free environment with a easy(ier) going head coach.
will be interesting to see if this can be a foundation for the players of the future, or if there will be a downward tick in the toughness factor (which was proven to me over and over again on Saturday at Illinois) in the coming seasons when Lloyd gets his own guys.
beyond being skillful and smart, this team is as tough as a bag of rusty nails...and still pissed off at their own school for the self-sanctions and are all playing like it has something to prove.
thx, Sean Miller
Can you be a consultant for the coaching staff?
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
I am not corned about Tommy as a recruiter, mainly because he already is a good recruiter, especially internationally. Plus he has good recruiters on his staff in Fois and Murphy. Don’t know that much about Robinson. His players are having fun, and play an open style of basketball. Finally, look at the development of his players. Kriisa learned how to shoot a floater, Koloko, Terry, and Mathurin.
If CTL keeps this up he will be a prime candidate for “Coach of the Year”. I am curious about the last time a rookie coach received Coach of the Year.
If CTL keeps this up he will be a prime candidate for “Coach of the Year”. I am curious about the last time a rookie coach received Coach of the Year.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Nice post. Miller deserves a lot of gratitude because he left the players and program in a position to succeed (despite a distinct lack of admin support).97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 1:44 pm Lloyd has been helped tremendously by the defensive and rebounding philosophies instilled and taught by Sean Miller.
its like the players went to a one to two year boot camp for toughness and defense and now get to graduate to McKale Center floor and be rewarded under the lights in front of 14,000 adoring fans by playing in a free flowing and fun and care-free environment with a easy(ier) going head coach.
will be interesting to see if this can be a foundation for the players of the future, or if there will be a downward tick in the toughness factor (which was proven to me over and over again on Saturday at Illinois) in the coming seasons when Lloyd gets his own guys.
beyond being skillful and smart, this team is as tough as a bag of rusty nails...and still pissed off at their own school for the self-sanctions and are all playing like it has something to prove.
thx, Sean Miller
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob. It's hard to doubt Lloyd can take good players to a good place. The part we don't know is if he can lay the foundation like Miller, but we'll find out.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
You guys are all nailing it when it comes to where we are as a program right now as of today.
And I have to admit I am fucking pumped even though the future has some unknowns like waiting to see how Tommy Man recruits and the pending IARP decision. But god, just thinking about where we were when those 2 dipshits fired CSM and what was going to happen to our beloved program to where we are now...the word giddy does not do justice to how I'm feeling at the moment.
Go Cats!!!
And I have to admit I am fucking pumped even though the future has some unknowns like waiting to see how Tommy Man recruits and the pending IARP decision. But god, just thinking about where we were when those 2 dipshits fired CSM and what was going to happen to our beloved program to where we are now...the word giddy does not do justice to how I'm feeling at the moment.
Go Cats!!!
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Five College Hoops Coaches Exceeding Expectations in Year 1
Whether or not they were facing a major rebuild, these men’s programs are all overachieving so far in 2021–22.
Tommy Lloyd, Arizona
The Arizona job was too good to pass up for Lloyd, who had turned down opportunities across the country in the past in favor of staying at Gonzaga under Mark Few. So far, that long education under Few looks like it has paid off. The Wildcats have looked like the best team in the Pac-12 thus far and were incredibly impressive Saturday in a huge road win over Illinois.
Now, it should be noted that Lloyd inherited a far better situation than the others on this list did. All five starters from the team’s win over Illinois played first under Sean Miller, including a pair of clear NBA talents in Bennedict Mathurin and Christian Koloko along with a high-level college PF in Azuolas Tubelis. But player retention is half the battle in the transfer portal age, and Lloyd deserves credit for keeping all this talent in Tucson. Plus, he’s overseen huge strides in the development of Koloko and point guard Kerr Kriisa, who was huge in the second half against the Illini.
The Gonzaga influence is obvious in Lloyd’s X’s and O’s on both ends of the floor. Combine that high-level tactical ability with the elite talent the Wildcats have, and there’s a reason Arizona, at 9–0, is so tough to beat.
https://www.si.com/college/2021/12/13/f ... haka-smart
Whether or not they were facing a major rebuild, these men’s programs are all overachieving so far in 2021–22.
Tommy Lloyd, Arizona
The Arizona job was too good to pass up for Lloyd, who had turned down opportunities across the country in the past in favor of staying at Gonzaga under Mark Few. So far, that long education under Few looks like it has paid off. The Wildcats have looked like the best team in the Pac-12 thus far and were incredibly impressive Saturday in a huge road win over Illinois.
Now, it should be noted that Lloyd inherited a far better situation than the others on this list did. All five starters from the team’s win over Illinois played first under Sean Miller, including a pair of clear NBA talents in Bennedict Mathurin and Christian Koloko along with a high-level college PF in Azuolas Tubelis. But player retention is half the battle in the transfer portal age, and Lloyd deserves credit for keeping all this talent in Tucson. Plus, he’s overseen huge strides in the development of Koloko and point guard Kerr Kriisa, who was huge in the second half against the Illini.
The Gonzaga influence is obvious in Lloyd’s X’s and O’s on both ends of the floor. Combine that high-level tactical ability with the elite talent the Wildcats have, and there’s a reason Arizona, at 9–0, is so tough to beat.
https://www.si.com/college/2021/12/13/f ... haka-smart
Re: Tommy Lloyd
all i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
You're getting me pretty pumped to play Gonzaga, 97! Would be amazing to be seeded in their region in March.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
I'd rather see that game in the Final 4Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:19 pmYou're getting me pretty pumped to play Gonzaga, 97! Would be amazing to be seeded in their region in March.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Arizona and Gonzaga are on a collision course to both be seeded in the WEST Region - its already been made so
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Can you imagine? My Dad asked me if a coach had ever won a national title in his first year as a head coach. Tubby won with UK, but he'd already coached at Tulsa and Georgia. So I remain unsure on this question.Alieberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:30 pmI'd rather see that game in the Final 4Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:19 pmYou're getting me pretty pumped to play Gonzaga, 97! Would be amazing to be seeded in their region in March.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Yeah, if Gonzaga, UCLA, and UA are the three best teams in the west, UCLA will get shipped to another region. Only way I see that going differently is if the Bruins are the #1 overall seed.
Of the 12 coaches, Rush picked the one whose fans have the deepest passion, the longest memories, the greatest lung capacity and … did I mention deep passion?
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
UCLA is only getting shipped to another region if we beat them at least once. You can't tell me we could lose twice to them and stay in the west.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Took Ollie 2 years since UConn was ineligible his first year.
The only answer: Steve Fisher after Bill Frieder left for ASU.
The only answer: Steve Fisher after Bill Frieder left for ASU.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Best basketball game I ever saw was the Lute Walton led game over Gonzaga in 2003.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Was that the Blake Steppe Zaga team?Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:48 pmBest basketball game I ever saw was the Lute Walton led game over Gonzaga in 2003.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Was that the triple OT game or something like that?Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:48 pmBest basketball game I ever saw was the Lute Walton led game over Gonzaga in 2003.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
yes
in 2014 Arizona won by 23 points in the second round of the NCAA's
in 2014 Arizona won by 23 points in the second round of the NCAA's
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Tommy's second radio show starting on Varsity Network.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
~ Wilhoit's Law
~ Wilhoit's Law
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Going to need to watch this later.Alieberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:57 pmWas that the triple OT game or something like that?Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:48 pmBest basketball game I ever saw was the Lute Walton led game over Gonzaga in 2003.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec5O_UotklY
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Two things that really stand out for Arizona and why their progress is remarkable:
1. Lloyd inherited an extremely young team. Per KenPom, Arizona ranks 355th out of 358 teams in experience, the lowest among all major conference teams.
2, The Wildcats lost four of their six leading scorers.
Now that reminds me of the year we had Jason Garner and Gill come in. The year before the big names had left. It was also the first time in a number of years that the Wildcats were not in the top 25 initial ranking. They were there two weeks later and never left. Great memories of Lute and the guys.
1. Lloyd inherited an extremely young team. Per KenPom, Arizona ranks 355th out of 358 teams in experience, the lowest among all major conference teams.
2, The Wildcats lost four of their six leading scorers.
Now that reminds me of the year we had Jason Garner and Gill come in. The year before the big names had left. It was also the first time in a number of years that the Wildcats were not in the top 25 initial ranking. They were there two weeks later and never left. Great memories of Lute and the guys.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
That was the best game I ever saw also. Player's just exhausted. Luke Walton just collapsed.Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:48 pmBest basketball game I ever saw was the Lute Walton led game over Gonzaga in 2003.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Sorry if someone said it and I missed it, but Tommy just said it was Benn who outed the 5 second call to the ref. Fucking cool. Dude is hot as hell and never sweats and has the skycam on as well.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
~ Wilhoit's Law
~ Wilhoit's Law
Re: Tommy Lloyd
That was a great game but the best game I saw live was UCLA/Dayton in McKale, 1974 I think. Bill Walton, Jamaal Wilkes. Just an insane game and I was like 13 or something. I was hooked on basketball for ever after that game
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Question to Tommy from the audience: With such an international team, can the players badmouth (in a foreign language) the refs and get away with it?
Yep, and the coach too.
Yep, and the coach too.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
~ Wilhoit's Law
~ Wilhoit's Law
Re: Tommy Lloyd
if you re-watch as i have several times, off the inbounds Mathurin gets up on point and the ref starts the count - sometimes the ref wont, but in this case he did and Benn saw it and inched closer as the count got to three and then four holding his hand in the center region of Plummer's (might of been Frazier's) body making sure to maintain contact and when the ref started to motion his arm for the five count he looked right at him and called for it and the ref immediately blew the whistle as his arm pumped to five.dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:22 pm Sorry if someone said it and I missed it, but Tommy just said it was Benn who outed the 5 second call to the ref. Fucking cool. Dude is hot as hell and never sweats and has the skycam on as well.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
I rewatched it once but didn't zero in on Benn.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:09 pmif you re-watch as i have several times, off the inbounds Mathurin gets up on point and the ref starts the count - sometimes the ref wont, but in this case he did and Benn saw it and inched closer as the count got to three and then four holding his hand in the center region of Plummer's (might of been Frazier's) body making sure to maintain contact and when the ref started to motion his arm for the five count he looked right at him and called for it and the ref immediately blew the whistle as his arm pumped to five.dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:22 pm Sorry if someone said it and I missed it, but Tommy just said it was Benn who outed the 5 second call to the ref. Fucking cool. Dude is hot as hell and never sweats and has the skycam on as well.
“Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition …There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”
~ Wilhoit's Law
~ Wilhoit's Law
Re: Tommy Lloyd
https://twitter.com/nacolosimo2/status/ ... 06304?s=21
Some neat highlights in three minutes. Right st the end they have a tight view of Benn on Plummer with the ref counting
Some neat highlights in three minutes. Right st the end they have a tight view of Benn on Plummer with the ref counting
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
I can't remember the last time I saw 5 seconds whistled. That was awesome, so glad we have Benn and this team as a whole, can't ask for much more.
Arizona State might have the most surprisingly anemic history in men's basketball of any program that you might think is better than it is.
-Norlander.
-Norlander.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
I guess knowing the rules in crucial moments is a bonus
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
All he had to do was start dribbling. That’s why you never see that call.U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:06 am I can't remember the last time I saw 5 seconds whistled. That was awesome, so glad we have Benn and this team as a whole, can't ask for much more.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Yes, that was 100% self inflicted. Either dribble or jab to back Mathurin off a little and no call. Kudos to Mathurin for staying engaged, but 5 seconds is pretty easy to avoid.Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:36 amAll he had to do was start dribbling. That’s why you never see that call.U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:06 am I can't remember the last time I saw 5 seconds whistled. That was awesome, so glad we have Benn and this team as a whole, can't ask for much more.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Remember when Michael Wright was called for taking too long to shoot a FT during a critical game with UCLA?
Looked like Cockburn took around the same around the time to get a FT off. But if they weren't going to call an offensive foul on him for pushing around Koloko, they certainly wouldn't call that.
Looked like Cockburn took around the same around the time to get a FT off. But if they weren't going to call an offensive foul on him for pushing around Koloko, they certainly wouldn't call that.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
I actually don't remember that. Sounds like possibly a bs call. I remember MW had kind of a set, jerky form on his FT, but it never seemed to take long enough to draw a violation.
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
Rewatched it last night. Wow. So many clutch moments by our guys. JG and Luke, in particular. And if you watch closely, you can occasionally see a very young Tommy Lloyd on that Zaga bench!Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 6:02 pmGoing to need to watch this later.Alieberman wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:57 pmWas that the triple OT game or something like that?Merkin wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 5:48 pmBest basketball game I ever saw was the Lute Walton led game over Gonzaga in 2003.97cats wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 4:58 pmall i can see in my minds eye is Aaron Gordon flying threw the air against Gonzaga in the 2014 Tournament hammering an ally-oop on the break as Arizona smashed the Zags and ran them off the floor in an absolute bludgeoning while Lloyd had the best seats in the house - so we know he knows how that feels, hes just now on the other side. the right side.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 13, 2021 2:55 pm
Lloyd has taken that setup and converted it like Aaron Gordon getting a lob.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec5O_UotklY
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Re: Tommy Lloyd
That's why when I see people saying Illinois fans were complaining, I don't get it. Aside from just homerism, the refs let them play for most of the game. Cockburn dropped his shoulder and knocked Koloko back a lot.
The overall #'s weren't particularly odd either. We had more fouls but more FT's.