Can Lloyd Recruit?

[Alieberman]

Well?

[dovecanyoncat]

Well?

Can he? Punk?

[EastCoastCat]

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Apparently. Yes.

[Chicat]

So far so good.

[RondaeShimmy]

Every Gonzaga fan always said that he was mostly known for recruiting.

That + the Arizona brand + his play style it'll be attractive enough that he'll be able to get guys

But I think ultimately Tommy will pick and choose who fits his system and maximize them in the system instead of chasing the night.

[EastCoastCat]

Things look pretty fucking bright for this program.

[dovecanyoncat]

So ..... do we feel lucky?

Well ..... do we?

[HiCat]

5-star Point Guard Kylan Boswell commits to Arizona Basketball
247Sports
@247Sports
#BREAKING: 5 guard Kylan Boswell has committed to @ArizonaMBB over Illinois and UNLV.

@BamBam_Boz is the No. 13 player in the country.

https://zonazealots.com/2022/02/28/5-st ... asketball/


2023 5-Star PG Kylan Boswell Makes College Commitment [REVEAL + ANALYSIS] | CBS Sports HQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cimaiDtIPaM

[RondaeShimmy]

[EVCat]

This thread should forever be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future. Lloyd couldn't tie down Akinjo (jeez), or overcome a year of recruiting in a couple of weeks selling a program with questions and sanctions looming to TyTy, and didn't turn on the spigot of low impact transfers left in the tank, so he's a lazy, unproven, maybe failed recruiter who is just "laaa-deee-daaa" with a ton of scholies open and doom impending at the end of this year.

The counter always was "guy just got in the seat, he has a history of being able to talk kids into the school he works for, may approach rosters different than Miller, and was successful in re-recruiting every Cat in the transfer portal that he, a, had a chance to keep, and b, wanted to keep". He didn't panic and start filling the roster with, who, exactly? What transfers were potentially worth it, given what he is doing now, that he ignored? This isn't hindsight...his success keeping the roster together and even getting within reaching distance of TyTy were both excellent signs of his capabilities in this regard. He had some pretty tough headwinds, and it took establishing who we were with the guys we have, first, before he was going to be able to sell our future to anyone not already playing here. He is a 1st time head coach. He couldn't sell what he hadn't done yet, not at an elite recruit level. That was, clearly, something he saw very clear eyed, and had a plan, and people jumped him before he ever had a chance to show out. It'd be one thing if we went through a season and he still wasn't recruiting, but the man had just gotten here, and assembled a roster, and there were some who were judging his future on the ability to Zoom call TyTy into an Arizona jersey before he even had the desk he ordered for his office.

They were all good questions...would he be able to recruit as a new coach? They were open questions until recently. But nothing that happened, or didn't happen yet, at any point so early in his tenure gave reasonable evidence for concern. That's where fans, rightfully mad at how the Miller exchange went down, let their feels get in the way of reasoned discourse. It's what message boards are for. Which is why we should remember this thread as a great example of when even the smartest of fans get a little sideways, of why maybe the it isn't time to jump onto the snowball rolling downhill...

[Longhorned]

I guess I disagree. If there's an open question, how is expressing concern letting feels get in the way of reasoned discourse? Lloyd had no recruiting or win-loss record as a head coach. The list of Robbins' failures were mounting and even now continues to unfold (see $22,000,000 judgement from California court just this week). We still don't know whether Lloyd will continue to be a successful head coach in the future, but given this amazing season to his credit and the bolster to recruiting that I think will continue, I think he'll be hugely successful. I don't know how that's fundamentally different from my previous worries about whether he would be in light of the pattern of decisions and the zero HC experience.

[UAEebs86]

The list of Robbins' failures were mounting and even now continues to unfold (see $22,000,000 judgement from California court just this week).

Can you post a link to this?

[Chicat]

This thread should forever be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

Let’s just hope that your post doesn’t need to be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

ie: We all start thumping our chests over two recruits after a truly incredible season but Tommy doesn’t make the necessary inroads into West Coast AAU and we struggle to recruit in 2024-2026.

I certainly hope we can all look back on this thread and just shake our heads and smile, but premature extrapolation can work both ways.

[prh]

The list of Robbins' failures were mounting and even now continues to unfold (see $22,000,000 judgement from California court just this week).

Can you post a link to this?

Looks like this

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 425487002/
https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/ ... -penalties

Curious how much of this falls to UA and how much to the former parent company? That's unclear to me

But also, fuck Robbins

[RondaeShimmy]

This thread should forever be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

Let’s just hope that your post doesn’t need to be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

ie: We all start thumping our chests over two recruits after a truly incredible season but Tommy doesn’t make the necessary inroads into West Coast AAU and we struggle to recruit in 2024-2026.

I certainly hope we can all look back on this thread and just shake our heads and smile, but premature extrapolation can work both ways.

He's still going to lose out on guys like Payton Watson and Jalen Green and Josh Christopher, but not necessarily the worst thing.

[Chicat]

He's still going to lose out on guys like Payton Watson and Jalen Green and Josh Christopher, but not necessarily the worst thing.

Ultimately, recruiting success is about fit and on-court results.

I’d much rather say “Where did Tommy find this kid??” than “Who the fuck gave this shithead a 5 star rating??”

Could win every recruiting battle and still not win the war, and vice versa, but at the end of the day, talent usually wins out.

[RondaeShimmy]

I'm just saying, there's guys that aren't coming here no matter what.

[UAEebs86]

I'm just saying, there's guys that aren't coming here no matter what.

Is that a shoe company thing?

[EastCoastCat]

I'm more interested about who made the "learned, intelligent fans" list.

I certainly didn't get the memo...

[Alieberman]

It's easy.

When he gets the recruits we want... he can recruit.

When he misses on recruits we want... he cannot.

[Chicat]

It's easy.

When he gets the recruits we want... he can recruit.

When he misses on recruits we want... he cannot.

If he can turn the recruits he does get into stars who lead us to successful seasons, no one will remember the recruits he missed on.

[Longhorned]

The list of Robbins' failures were mounting and even now continues to unfold (see $22,000,000 judgement from California court just this week).

Can you post a link to this?

Looks like this

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 425487002/
https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/ ... -penalties

Curious how much of this falls to UA and how much to the former parent company? That's unclear to me

But also, fuck Robbins

It falls on for-profit Ashford and the former parent company, not U of A. The decision to buy Ashford in light of its illegal and predatory practices falls on U of A. Beyond liability and viability, it's also the moral issue of a public university purchasing an institution that's profited off of defrauding students, including mostly low-income, military, and marginalized students. It sullies our name.

[GlobalCat]

The list of Robbins' failures were mounting and even now continues to unfold (see $22,000,000 judgement from California court just this week).

Can you post a link to this?

Looks like this

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 425487002/
https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/ ... -penalties

Curious how much of this falls to UA and how much to the former parent company? That's unclear to me

But also, fuck Robbins

It falls on for-profit Ashford and the former parent company, not U of A. The decision to buy Ashford in light of its illegal and predatory practices falls on U of A. Beyond liability and viability, it's also the moral issue of a public university purchasing an institution that's profited off of defrauding students, including mostly low-income, military, and marginalized students. It sullies our name.

Larry Penley (head of ABOR) tried similar ventures in the past with other schools in which he had a leadership role. I’d be stunned if he wasn’t the major driver here.

[UofAlum05]

This thread should forever be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future. Lloyd couldn't tie down Akinjo (jeez), or overcome a year of recruiting in a couple of weeks selling a program with questions and sanctions looming to TyTy, and didn't turn on the spigot of low impact transfers left in the tank, so he's a lazy, unproven, maybe failed recruiter who is just "laaa-deee-daaa" with a ton of scholies open and doom impending at the end of this year.

The counter always was "guy just got in the seat, he has a history of being able to talk kids into the school he works for, may approach rosters different than Miller, and was successful in re-recruiting every Cat in the transfer portal that he, a, had a chance to keep, and b, wanted to keep". He didn't panic and start filling the roster with, who, exactly? What transfers were potentially worth it, given what he is doing now, that he ignored? This isn't hindsight...his success keeping the roster together and even getting within reaching distance of TyTy were both excellent signs of his capabilities in this regard. He had some pretty tough headwinds, and it took establishing who we were with the guys we have, first, before he was going to be able to sell our future to anyone not already playing here. He is a 1st time head coach. He couldn't sell what he hadn't done yet, not at an elite recruit level. That was, clearly, something he saw very clear eyed, and had a plan, and people jumped him before he ever had a chance to show out. It'd be one thing if we went through a season and he still wasn't recruiting, but the man had just gotten here, and assembled a roster, and there were some who were judging his future on the ability to Zoom call TyTy into an Arizona jersey before he even had the desk he ordered for his office.

They were all good questions...would he be able to recruit as a new coach? They were open questions until recently. But nothing that happened, or didn't happen yet, at any point so early in his tenure gave reasonable evidence for concern. That's where fans, rightfully mad at how the Miller exchange went down, let their feels get in the way of reasoned discourse. It's what message boards are for. Which is why we should remember this thread as a great example of when even the smartest of fans get a little sideways, of why maybe the it isn't time to jump onto the snowball rolling downhill...

Or that this thread was started as a bit of sarcasm to help reverse jinx after a few recruiting misses. The "Can Miller recruit" thread became the stuff of legends and this was meant to mock/emulate that a bit.

[Longhorned]

The list of Robbins' failures were mounting and even now continues to unfold (see $22,000,000 judgement from California court just this week).

Can you post a link to this?

Looks like this

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 425487002/
https://oag.ca.gov/news/press-releases/ ... -penalties

Curious how much of this falls to UA and how much to the former parent company? That's unclear to me

But also, fuck Robbins

It falls on for-profit Ashford and the former parent company, not U of A. The decision to buy Ashford in light of its illegal and predatory practices falls on U of A. Beyond liability and viability, it's also the moral issue of a public university purchasing an institution that's profited off of defrauding students, including mostly low-income, military, and marginalized students. It sullies our name.

Larry Penley (head of ABOR) tried similar ventures in the past with other schools in which he had a leadership role. I’d be stunned if he wasn’t the major driver here.

Awesome to see you here, Global! Yes, ABOR is solidly behind the acquisition and the source for it. Crowe (who has nothing to do with this) does whatever he wants and ABOR sings to his tune. Robbins meets ABOR's conditions for bonuses and his recent extension and leverages his relationship with Ducey against his weak position with ABOR. When it comes to the Ashford acquisition, ABOR and Ducey see eye to eye. So, when the Eller faculty studied the potential deal and provided their formal advice not to pursue it, with very specific data and reasoning, Robbins ignored their recommendation and did it anyway, and THEN informed the Faculty Senate and Committee of Eleven that it was happening.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This thread should forever be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

Let’s just hope that your post doesn’t need to be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

ie: We all start thumping our chests over two recruits after a truly incredible season but Tommy doesn’t make the necessary inroads into West Coast AAU and we struggle to recruit in 2024-2026.

I certainly hope we can all look back on this thread and just shake our heads and smile, but premature extrapolation can work both ways.

Bottom line is long term success requires consistently bringing talent in.

When Lloyd missed on a few, it wasn't the end of the line because there was leftover talent and as long as he started ramping up in a year or two, it could be fine.

Boswell and Lewis show he can get high level talent, the consistency of that over time is what the test is. If 23 is the first in line of consistent recruiting results, Lloyd will be in a great place. If it's an outlier, not so much.

A single class doesn't make or break his tenure.

[Longhorned]

This thread should forever be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

Let’s just hope that your post doesn’t need to be preserved as an example of how even learned, intelligent fans let their own feels get in the way, and overanalyze a small set of data in a way favorable to those feels and extrapolate that over the future.

ie: We all start thumping our chests over two recruits after a truly incredible season but Tommy doesn’t make the necessary inroads into West Coast AAU and we struggle to recruit in 2024-2026.

I certainly hope we can all look back on this thread and just shake our heads and smile, but premature extrapolation can work both ways.

Bottom line is long term success requires consistently bringing talent in.

When Lloyd missed on a few, it wasn't the end of the line because there was leftover talent and as long as he started ramping up in a year or two, it could be fine.

Boswell and Lewis show he can get high level talent, the consistency of that over time is what the test is. If 23 is the first in line of consistent recruiting results, Lloyd will be in a great place. If it's an outlier, not so much.

A single class doesn't make or break his tenure.

Yep. But when he was missing, it made sense with the risk factor. He wasn't a proven head coach. He is now. He won't need more seasons to establish that - it's done. He's second-to-none as a winner that leads a winning team in winning the way players want to play and win.

So, now we're going to be seeing what we didn't before: that New Head Coach Benefit of the Doubt Advantage. It's hard to imagine anything more promising. He might not have proven he can recruit to build a program from nothing, but he's shown what he can do with a strong roster. And that's the point.

Furthermore, even though he started with CSM's roster, Lloyd really did assemble the roster, letting go of pieces that were strong in their own right for the sake of the machine he knows will work for his system. In the course of a single regular season, no recruit won't understand what's meant by "Lloyd's system".