South Region Discussion

[Bordercat]

waking up this morning reading all the sour grapes by TCU. So are we just going to ignore the fact their entire games is predicated on the idea that they will foul the shit out of you and hope the refs allow a "physical game". The refs let them play ALL night but TCU wants that call at the end of the game? GTFO with that weak ass shit. Own your loss. You got beat at your own game. The refs allowed exactly the game you wanted and you still couldn't get it done.

[CalStateTempe]

I love that we are now going to be the team TCU bitches about for a generation.

[EastCoastCat]

A non call helping Arizona...now THAT is rich.

[RaisingArizona]

So are we just going to ignore the fact their entire games is predicated on the idea that they will foul the shit out of you and hope the refs allow a "physical game".

To be fair outside of hitting a fluke amount of threes that's the only way to beat us. Get as handsy as the refs will allow and hope they allow you to take it very far. We're not as strong with the ball as we need to be.

[pc in NM]

I love that we are now going to be the team TCU bitches about for a generation.

OTOH, had a foul been called....

All things considered, I think the fairest outcome was to go to OT, and let the palyers decide the game.

(Apparently, there was a delay on the in-bounds, and had DT's dunk counted, there would have been issues on that account also....)

[CalStateTempe]

I love that we are now going to be the team TCU bitches about for a generation.

OTOH, had a foul been called....

There was no foul, to be called

[RondaeShimmy]

Very lucky we won, however I have to say this.

The PAC 12 yet again has conditioned us to be soft and finesse. Mathurin once again took himself out of the game and his rhythm because he was constantly talking to the refs until they chanted overrated at him.

Arizona was dangerous when they were going at them physically and attacking the rim and got several guys at 4 fouls and just started chucking 3s. They need to learn that they can be more physical just like the other teams are mauling Arizona players.

Hopefully 2 games of no calls gets them back to pre pac 12 tournament levels.

[pc in NM]

I love that we are now going to be the team TCU bitches about for a generation.

OTOH, had a foul been called....

There was no foul, to be called

IMNSHO, it was a close call - it could legitimately been called either way.

I believe the refs swallowed their whistles due to it being the final seconds - and I credit them for that

[UAEebs86]

I love that we are now going to be the team TCU bitches about for a generation.

OTOH, had a foul been called....

There was no foul, to be called

IMNSHO, it was a close call - it could legitimately been called either way.

I believe the refs swallowed their whistles due to it being the final seconds - and I credit them for that

His foot hit the line before contact. Should have been a backcourt violation.


This feels like the Sabatino Chen shot against Colorado where Katzenfreund got us the high res video from McKale showing the ball on his fingers and the light red, yet everyone outside AZ fans said the Buffs got robbed.

Only this time we have the replay all over the place.

It touched the line! It touched the line! (CSM probably)

[Spaceman Spiff]

Upside for me, a win is a win and that's ultimately all that matters. Some guys made huge plays to get that W (Benn's three) and that's what keeps you alive.

Negatives, we got drilled in effort plays and lost pretty much every 50/50 ball in the second half. They played with more energy, aggression and initiative most of the night and basically all the second half.

That non-call, whatever. You run into the hip of a hedge guy at half court and you're hoping for a bailout. I despise those whistles at any point and it would have been inconsistent with what was getting called the rest of the night.

[Chicat]

National media loves lazy narratives.

[pc in NM]

Regardless of all the variables, and post-game assessments/debates, a couple of things ring true:

1. It was a hell of a game!!!

2. This Arizona team has an incredible will to win!!! (and, they needed every ounce of that will-to-win yesterday!!)

[EastCoastCat]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

[azgreg]

It’s brutal. I didn’t get to sleep til almost 3.

My alarm went off for work this morning at 4:20. I'm not functioning well.

[SabinoDrifter]

A few thoughts on the game last night and going forward.

1. I know CTL wanted to get Kerr back into the swing of things, but they made their run and TCU started to hunt him on defense, which negates the Ballo / Koloko tandem lineup. Lloyd needs to figure out how to manage Kerr's minutes in the second half of the game on Thursday because Houston will do the same thing.

2. We shot 5-for-27 from three and still scored over 1 point per possession over a team that hadn't given up over 76 points all season.

3. Houston's win yesterday is their first win over a single digit seed since 1984!

4. CTL tried to get Zu going early and I think he should do the same thing again on Thursday. Once he sees the ball go through the hoop once or twice, he's a different player.

5. We get to play the underdog card for the first time all season.

[RondaeShimmy]

I don't really like how confident I am with our draw at this point.

this was exactly my reaction and i immediately posted when the brackets were released the way it broke is almost too good for AZ but it seems things have been too good all year and maybe just perhaps its meant to be too good but my largest worry is the team relaxes early in the round of 32, even if its ever so slightly, cause that can be the difference in going home early and advancing.

if AZ gets to San Antonio there is no way i see them losing, even if Houston is there (which i dont think they will be)and has a home crowd.

Still feel this way?

[RaisingArizona]

1. I know CTL wanted to get Kerr back into the swing of things, but they made their run and TCU started to hunt him on defense, which negates the Ballo / Koloko tandem lineup. Lloyd needs to figure out how to manage Kerr's minutes in the second half of the game on Thursday because Houston will do the same thing.

Weren't we +24 with Kerr in there?

[pc in NM]

1. I know CTL wanted to get Kerr back into the swing of things, but they made their run and TCU started to hunt him on defense, which negates the Ballo / Koloko tandem lineup. Lloyd needs to figure out how to manage Kerr's minutes in the second half of the game on Thursday because Houston will do the same thing.

Weren't we +24 with Kerr in there?

I was noting that he was a big + during the game, but not that big!!

And, I promise you, if he takes 10 threes against Houston, we're ALL gonna be happy!!!

[CatFanOneMil]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

I think something that might get overlooked in the "he was fouled" debate is the fact that Tommy took the risk in the first place...

Think about it...he KNEW that player would be trying hero ball...and he put C-Lo and Terry on him, PAC 12 defensive player of the year and our best defender...in spite of TCU getting a LOT of ticky-tack fouls and us getting almost zero he took a gamble and figured the ref would swallow his whistle with seconds left AND HE WAS RIGHT.

It was a big gamble, but pretty damn smart if you ask me...and it paid off.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Tommy Lloyd knowing a HELL of a lot more than he lets on and already showing the confidence to risk that knowledge in big games.

I.Am.Impressed.

Not a first year coach move in my book.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

Eh, game plan 1 for me is don't get smacked around on the glass, give up 19 offensive rebounds and lose most loose balls.

That's not really even a game plan so much just meeting the opponent's energy and aggression. That was 100% our biggest issue last night. Nothing game plan wise, just not getting outworked.

[RaisingArizona]

Tommy plays to win. I love that about him. Our DNA is (when possible) to dictate rather than react.

[SabinoDrifter]

1. I know CTL wanted to get Kerr back into the swing of things, but they made their run and TCU started to hunt him on defense, which negates the Ballo / Koloko tandem lineup. Lloyd needs to figure out how to manage Kerr's minutes in the second half of the game on Thursday because Houston will do the same thing.

Weren't we +24 with Kerr in there?

Yeah, it was a big number and he is the glue for this team and last night's game isn't the normal rotation we've played all season. I expect Kerr in the starting lineup on Thursday night and have the normal rotations going forward. I think the better statement might be trying to limit Kerr's minutes with both Ballo and Koloko on the floor together.

[RaisingArizona]

Kier's two three point fouls really hurt us. That's a different game going into the second half if plays sound defense on both of those contests.

[EastCoastCat]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

Eh, game plan 1 for me is don't get smacked around on the glass, give up 19 offensive rebounds and lose most loose balls.

That's not really even a game plan so much just meeting the opponent's energy and aggression. That was 100% our biggest issue last night. Nothing game plan wise, just not getting outworked.

Agree it's mostly effort but CTL said afterwards that TCU did some things (angles to the offensive boards) that threw us off so that's what I was referring to.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

I think something that might get overlooked in the "he was fouled" debate is the fact that Tommy took the risk in the first place...

Think about it...he KNEW that player would be trying hero ball...and he put C-Lo and Terry on him, PAC 12 defensive player of the year and our best defender...in spite of TCU getting a LOT of ticky-tack fouls and us getting almost zero he took a gamble and figured the ref would swallow his whistle with seconds left AND HE WAS RIGHT.

It was a big gamble, but pretty damn smart if you ask me...and it paid off.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Tommy Lloyd knowing a HELL of a lot more than he lets on and already showing the confidence to risk that knowledge in big games.

I.Am.Impressed.

Not a first year coach move in my book.

Terry was checking him most of the night. That was clearly the matchup we wanted and it did work very well.

Rewatching the no call at the link below:

https://youtu.be/zKZJKPkBHfo

Terry flattens himself and gives ground as Miles goes toward halfcourt, then Miles turns into Terry to avoid a halfcourt violation. A defender's entitled to space and to me, that's more Miles getting into Terry than Terry pushing into Miles. Miles hits Terry as he's backing up.

[97cats]

I don't really like how confident I am with our draw at this point.

this was exactly my reaction and i immediately posted when the brackets were released the way it broke is almost too good for AZ but it seems things have been too good all year and maybe just perhaps its meant to be too good but my largest worry is the team relaxes early in the round of 32, even if its ever so slightly, cause that can be the difference in going home early and advancing.

if AZ gets to San Antonio there is no way i see them losing, even if Houston is there (which i dont think they will be)and has a home crowd.

Still feel this way?

as i mentioned many times i thought TCU is the toughest matchup for AZ in the region due to their style with the ability to score and the top teams they have played all season.

now AZ is in the drivers seat, they have Houston team who cant hang with the size of AZ and cant score the ball at a high enough rate to stay in the game for 40 mins.

on the other side youve got a Michigan team who matches up really poorly against AZ - they took out Tennessee (what i wanted) and Villanova who matches up even worse against AZ - the Cats would win the rebounding battle by 15+ and overwhelm Villanova rather easily.

TCU was the slip up early that coulda taken AZ down and the toughed out a fucking hard ass fought game.

now they rest and game plan and get back to some normalcy. the upsets happen early and generally the best teams are harder and harder to eliminate as the tournament progresses, and thats reflected in the top seeds correlation and the final four.

much rather be here than:

Gonzaga
Arkansas
Texas Tech
Duke

so ya, counting blessings

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

Eh, game plan 1 for me is don't get smacked around on the glass, give up 19 offensive rebounds and lose most loose balls.

That's not really even a game plan so much just meeting the opponent's energy and aggression. That was 100% our biggest issue last night. Nothing game plan wise, just not getting outworked.

Agree it's mostly effort but CTL said afterwards that TCU did some things (angles to the offensive boards) that threw us off so that's what I was referring to.

IMO, one of the basic things for us is getting a body when the shot goes up. That's an area we were late on all day. We let people get towards the rim unchecked and wound up playing catchup.

[RaisingArizona]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

I think something that might get overlooked in the "he was fouled" debate is the fact that Tommy took the risk in the first place...

Think about it...he KNEW that player would be trying hero ball...and he put C-Lo and Terry on him, PAC 12 defensive player of the year and our best defender...in spite of TCU getting a LOT of ticky-tack fouls and us getting almost zero he took a gamble and figured the ref would swallow his whistle with seconds left AND HE WAS RIGHT.

It was a big gamble, but pretty damn smart if you ask me...and it paid off.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Tommy Lloyd knowing a HELL of a lot more than he lets on and already showing the confidence to risk that knowledge in big games.

I.Am.Impressed.

Not a first year coach move in my book.

Terry was checking him most of the night. That was clearly the matchup we wanted and it did work very well.

Rewatching the no call at the link below:

https://youtu.be/zKZJKPkBHfo

Terry flattens himself and gives ground as Miles goes toward halfcourt, then Miles turns into Terry to avoid a halfcourt violation. A defender's entitled to space and to me, that's more Miles getting into Terry than Terry pushing into Miles. Miles hits Terry as he's backing up.

I didn't watch TCU all year but I get the sense that initiating body contact to try and get to the line is a huge part of Miles' offensive game.

[Alieberman]

much rather be here than:

Gonzaga
Arkansas
Texas Tech
Duke

so ya, counting blessings

I'd rather be where Kansas is at... but just happy to have another game a play!

[prh]

Remember when it looked like we were going to boat race Illinois, right before their 19-0 run? Illinois played worse than that the entire game vs Houston and still was close. We’d beat yesterday’s Illinois team by 30.

If we defensive rebound, we win Thursday. That’s it.

[RaisingArizona]

much rather be here than:

Gonzaga
Arkansas
Texas Tech
Duke

so ya, counting blessings

I'd rather be where Kansas is at... but just happy to have another game a play!

From the moment the bracket was released that region seemed incredibly suspect.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think the experience of surviving TCU's "physical" play cannot be underestimated.

I expect The Aw Shucks Assassin/Genius to come up with a better game plan vs Houston. Remember, we only had 1 day to prepare for TCU.

I think something that might get overlooked in the "he was fouled" debate is the fact that Tommy took the risk in the first place...

Think about it...he KNEW that player would be trying hero ball...and he put C-Lo and Terry on him, PAC 12 defensive player of the year and our best defender...in spite of TCU getting a LOT of ticky-tack fouls and us getting almost zero he took a gamble and figured the ref would swallow his whistle with seconds left AND HE WAS RIGHT.

It was a big gamble, but pretty damn smart if you ask me...and it paid off.

If I was a betting man, I'd bet on Tommy Lloyd knowing a HELL of a lot more than he lets on and already showing the confidence to risk that knowledge in big games.

I.Am.Impressed.

Not a first year coach move in my book.

Terry was checking him most of the night. That was clearly the matchup we wanted and it did work very well.

Rewatching the no call at the link below:

https://youtu.be/zKZJKPkBHfo

Terry flattens himself and gives ground as Miles goes toward halfcourt, then Miles turns into Terry to avoid a halfcourt violation. A defender's entitled to space and to me, that's more Miles getting into Terry than Terry pushing into Miles. Miles hits Terry as he's backing up.

I didn't watch TCU all year but I get the sense that initiating body contact to try and get to the line is a huge part of Miles' offensive game.

Pac 12 refs reward that a lot, and I never like it. In that sort of scenario, I never feel like it's on the defender to completely go matador to avoid contact.

[Abrahamarvel]

People like Seth Davis base their livelihood on controversies/clicks. Couldn’t care less about their opinions, Couldn’t care less if it was indeed a foul. Not like it didn’t happen to us before. That’s sports.

We won, moving on to Houston.

[RondaeShimmy]

Remember when it looked like we were going to boat race Illinois, right before their 19-0 run? Illinois played worse than that the entire game vs Houston and still was close. We’d beat yesterday’s Illinois team by 30.

If we defensive rebound, we win Thursday. That’s it.

The problem is we switch everything on defense and try to run fast break quickly that sometimes we allow offensive boards and pts

Houston is #2 in the country in second chance points

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... s-per-game

Last 3 games they're at 12 second chance points, vs Kofi and Illinois they had 17 second chance pts

[SabinoDrifter]

Two things to note w/r/t Houston: 1 - they had a two point lead with eight minutes left and a four point with about six and half minutes left; 2 - they've lost three times since February 9

[azcat49]

Will shooting % improve this week as teams go home and shoot exclusively with the new ball?

[Merkin]

His foot hit the line before contact. Should have been a backcourt violation.

You need both feet in the backcourt to be over and back.

[CatsbyAZ]

What are Houston's strengths that are expected to give Arizona problems? Streaking at the right time? Size?

[MountainCat]

His foot hit the line before contact. Should have been a backcourt violation.

You need both feet in the backcourt to be over and back.

Wait - I haven't heard that before. Does anyone have the rules book on that? I though the ball could go over the line and be touching it as long as a single foot doesn't touch the half court line, in comparison to not having both feet over the line like you refer to.

[UAEebs86]

His foot hit the line before contact. Should have been a backcourt violation.

You need both feet in the backcourt to be over and back.

Wait - I haven't heard that before. Does anyone have the rules book on that? I though the ball could go over the line and be touching it as long as a single foot doesn't touch the half court line, in comparison to not having both feet over the line like you refer to.

I think that both feet thing is if you are passing the ball back to a player coming up court and he has at least one foot over the line.

He also dribbled the on the line (after contact though I think).

Merk is the first person I have seen suggest his foot on the line would not be a backcourt violation.

[Alieberman]

Two things to note w/r/t Houston: 1 - they had a two point lead with eight minutes left and a four point with about six and half minutes left; 2 - they've lost three times since February 9

Also to Note:

Illinois is nothing but Cockburn and a few above average guards.

[RaisingArizona]

Miles was not allowed to touch the line. That is only allowed when crossing the line in the first place. If any part of ball or player is not entirely across the line in the first place then they can retreat. Miles was entirely established in the front court. His foot clearly hits the line. Unless there has been some recent modification to the rule that I don't know of that's a violation.

https://www.rookieroad.com/basketball/v ... -back-rule

[SabinoDrifter]

What are Houston's strengths that are expected to give Arizona problems? Streaking at the right time? Size?

They're a much more cohesive team and built a culture around toughness and rebounding, but they lack the go-to scoring option like TCU did last night. They're smaller than TCU and I expect Arizona to establish a high low game and if we can make a couple of threes, Houston is going to have a really hard time trying to defend Arizona for 40 minutes at 97 noted above.

I think last night's game came at a perfect time to get these guys ready for their style on Thursday night.

[RaisingArizona]

Two things to note w/r/t Houston: 1 - they had a two point lead with eight minutes left and a four point with about six and half minutes left; 2 - they've lost three times since February 9

Also to Note:

Illinois is nothing but Cockburn and a few above average guards.

And their winning percentage with Curbelo was a mere .555.

[RondaeShimmy]

What are Houston's strengths that are expected to give Arizona problems? Streaking at the right time? Size?

Houston is #2 in the country in second chance points

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... s-per-game

Last 3 games they're at 12 second chance points, vs Kofi and Illinois they had 17 second chance pts

[UAEebs86]

Miles was not allowed to touch the line. That is only allowed when crossing the line in the first place. If any part of ball or player is not entirely across the line in the first place then they can retreat. Miles was entirely established in the front court. His foot clearly hits the line. Unless there has been some recent modification to the rule that I don't know of that's a violation.

https://www.rookieroad.com/basketball/v ... -back-rule

[UAEebs86]

Miles was not allowed to touch the line. That is only allowed when crossing the line in the first place. If any part of ball or player is not entirely across the line in the first place then they can retreat. Miles was entirely established in the front court. His foot clearly hits the line. Unless there has been some recent modification to the rule that I don't know of that's a violation.

https://www.rookieroad.com/basketball/v ... -back-rule

[Beachcat97]

Will shooting % improve this week as teams go home and shoot exclusively with the new ball?

Kriisa and Tubelis are going to shoot better on Thursday. I'd bet the ranch on it.

Really like our chances vs. Houston. I know the metrics tell a different story, but fuck the metrics.

[Merkin]

Miles was not allowed to touch the line. That is only allowed when crossing the line in the first place. If any part of ball or player is not entirely across the line in the first place then they can retreat. Miles was entirely established in the front court. His foot clearly hits the line. Unless there has been some recent modification to the rule that I don't know of that's a violation.

https://www.rookieroad.com/basketball/v ... -back-rule

Thanks! I stand corrected. The rule I was thinking of was for Biddy Basketball when I used to coach. Guess the rules are different.

[Olsondogg]

What are Houston's strengths that are expected to give Arizona problems? Streaking at the right time? Size?

Houston is #2 in the country in second chance points

https://www.teamrankings.com/ncaa-baske ... s-per-game

Last 3 games they're at 12 second chance points, vs Kofi and Illinois they had 17 second chance pts

Arizona needs to board a hell of a lot better than they did yesterday. Boards are key to winning on Thursday.