The 2022-2023 Season Thread

[Beachcat97]

Yeah, not saying CK is a lock but if he does return, as Katz seems to think is likely, we absolutely have a legit case for #1. We were one of the 2 best teams in the country all year, and we return 4 of 5 starters.

But that starter we're losing was our best player. Even with CK back, we're not the preseason #1. But...if Tommy lands a key transfer or two, that could change.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yeah, not saying CK is a lock but if he does return, as Katz seems to think is likely, we absolutely have a legit case for #1. We were one of the 2 best teams in the country all year, and we return 4 of 5 starters.

But that starter we're losing was our best player. Even with CK back, we're not the preseason #1. But...if Tommy lands a key transfer or two, that could change.

I've flogged this before, but history suggests you need 2-3 future pros to win a natty.

Our issue is Mathurin isn't just anyone, he's one of our most necessary cogs. Koloko goes ans we might be down our only two (IMO) guaranteed pros. Historically, that's a recipe for not being a NC type team. Also, generally top level talent = #1 teams.

[KaibabKat]

Our five elite eight teams over the past 20 years have had an average of 4 future NBA players on them - from a low of 2 in 2011 to a high of 6 in 2003.

[dmjcat]

Boswell says he's not reclassifying so we will need a replacement for Kier

https://247sports.com/college/basketbal ... 85952106_1

[ChooChooCat]

Boswell says he's not reclassifying so we will need a replacement for Kier

https://247sports.com/college/basketbal ... 85952106_1

That decision isn’t final yet.

[Beachcat97]

Boswell says he's not reclassifying so we will need a replacement for Kier

https://247sports.com/college/basketbal ... 85952106_1

That decision isn’t final yet.

Well how bout that.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Our five elite eight teams over the past 20 years have had an average of 4 future NBA players on them - from a low of 2 in 2011 to a high of 6 in 2003.

Yup. That's the biggest concern with losing Mathurin and maybe Koloko. It isn't that there aren't players to replace then, it's that the replacements don't have the high level talent that usually correlates to deep tourney runs.

[Beachcat97]

Our five elite eight teams over the past 20 years have had an average of 4 future NBA players on them - from a low of 2 in 2011 to a high of 6 in 2003.

Yup. That's the biggest concern with losing Mathurin and maybe Koloko. It isn't that there aren't players to replace then, it's that the replacements don't have the high level talent that usually correlates to deep tourney runs.

I mean, we went through this at the beginning of the Miller era too. Kyryl, Bejarano, Jacobson, Lavender, Chol, a bunch I'm forgetting. Once Miller got his feet firmly under him in Tucson, though, it was off to the races. That '12 recruiting class was ridiculous, and the ones that followed were equally stellar. Given Lloyd's recruiting talent, I have zero doubt we're going to see top 5 classes nationally at AZ within a few seasons. Just gotta hang in there.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Our five elite eight teams over the past 20 years have had an average of 4 future NBA players on them - from a low of 2 in 2011 to a high of 6 in 2003.

Yup. That's the biggest concern with losing Mathurin and maybe Koloko. It isn't that there aren't players to replace then, it's that the replacements don't have the high level talent that usually correlates to deep tourney runs.

I mean, we went through this at the beginning of the Miller era too. Kyryl, Bejarano, Jacobson, Lavender, Chol, a bunch I'm forgetting. Once Miller got his feet firmly under him in Tucson, though, it was off to the races. That '12 recruiting class was ridiculous, and the ones that followed were equally stellar. Given Lloyd's recruiting talent, I have zero doubt we're going to see top 5 classes nationally at AZ within a few seasons. Just gotta hang in there.

Yeah, although my thought process is different with Lloyd than Miller.

Miller had Wise, Fogg, Horne, Judkins, Lavender, DJ Shumpert and Alex Jacobson as his returners. That's 3 solid players and...yikes. Plus, no immediate transfer rule.

Lloyd returned Kerr, Terry, Mathurin, Tubelis and Koloko and was able to add Ballo and Pelle with the immediate transfer rule.

The part I agree on, you do expect a bit of feeling out in recruiting. Miller obviously reached for guys like Sidiki and Josiah early. Lloyd has shown a tendency not to reach, but instead has brought in relatively low numbers of incoming guys.

[azgreg]

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Wow does Oregon have a big class coming in?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Wow does Oregon have a big class coming in?

Two five stars and the #2 juco player. Not big in number, but certainly some talent.

There's still so much TBD in terms of the portal, though. They have top tier talent but need to fill out depth.

[Beachcat97]

There's still so much TBD in terms of the portal, though. They have top tier talent but need to fill out depth.

Yeah. Some of those teams projected in the top 10-15 could lose key players. Is ucla really going to return their entire core for a third straight year?! Is the player development *that* bad under Cronin that they have no other options? Craziness.

Will be interesting to see if Altman can turn things around. Ducks underachieved this past season.

[Spaceman Spiff]

There's still so much TBD in terms of the portal, though. They have top tier talent but need to fill out depth.

Yeah. Some of those teams projected in the top 10-15 could lose key players. Is ucla really going to return their entire core for a third straight year?! Is the player development *that* bad under Cronin that they have no other options? Craziness.

Will be interesting to see if Altman can turn things around. Ducks underachieved this past season.

It's something I used to say to the people who argued Altman>Miller. No disrespect to Altman, but Oregon's had some years (17-18 and 18-19 too) where they've significantly underachieved vs talent level.

The point was always less about Altman and Miller and more about how things just aren't a given at a high level.

[Beachcat97]

There's still so much TBD in terms of the portal, though. They have top tier talent but need to fill out depth.

Yeah. Some of those teams projected in the top 10-15 could lose key players. Is ucla really going to return their entire core for a third straight year?! Is the player development *that* bad under Cronin that they have no other options? Craziness.

Will be interesting to see if Altman can turn things around. Ducks underachieved this past season.

It's something I used to say to the people who argued Altman>Miller. No disrespect to Altman, but Oregon's had some years (17-18 and 18-19 too) where they've significantly underachieved vs talent level.

The point was always less about Altman and Miller and more about how things just aren't a given at a high level.

Altman's success in Eugene greatly outweighs his failures, though. He took them to a FF and has 4 reg season Pac titles. He's been the best Ducks coach for a long, long time. How many coaches in the Pac would you rather have than Altman?

[Spaceman Spiff]

There's still so much TBD in terms of the portal, though. They have top tier talent but need to fill out depth.

Yeah. Some of those teams projected in the top 10-15 could lose key players. Is ucla really going to return their entire core for a third straight year?! Is the player development *that* bad under Cronin that they have no other options? Craziness.

Will be interesting to see if Altman can turn things around. Ducks underachieved this past season.

It's something I used to say to the people who argued Altman>Miller. No disrespect to Altman, but Oregon's had some years (17-18 and 18-19 too) where they've significantly underachieved vs talent level.

The point was always less about Altman and Miller and more about how things just aren't a given at a high level.

Altman's success in Eugene greatly outweighs his failures, though. He took them to a FF and has 4 reg season Pac titles. He's been the best Ducks coach for a long, long time. How many coaches in the Pac would you rather have than Altman?

First, like I said, it isn't a shot at Altman, I'm saying an off year happens to good coaches. I usually raised this when people complained about Miller's time period from 18-19 onwards.

Real world stuff affects results. Like if Bol Bol doesn't get injured, Oregon's record in 18-19 looks better. With Miller, the FBI thing was obviously big.

Then just even good coaches have teams and players that don't pan out like you think. Like Oregon's 18-19 team. They had NBA talent in Pritchard and Troy Brown and some decent players around them and were barely over .500 in a pretty weak year for the Pac.

[Beachcat97]

There's still so much TBD in terms of the portal, though. They have top tier talent but need to fill out depth.

Yeah. Some of those teams projected in the top 10-15 could lose key players. Is ucla really going to return their entire core for a third straight year?! Is the player development *that* bad under Cronin that they have no other options? Craziness.

Will be interesting to see if Altman can turn things around. Ducks underachieved this past season.

It's something I used to say to the people who argued Altman>Miller. No disrespect to Altman, but Oregon's had some years (17-18 and 18-19 too) where they've significantly underachieved vs talent level.

The point was always less about Altman and Miller and more about how things just aren't a given at a high level.

Altman's success in Eugene greatly outweighs his failures, though. He took them to a FF and has 4 reg season Pac titles. He's been the best Ducks coach for a long, long time. How many coaches in the Pac would you rather have than Altman?

First, like I said, it isn't a shot at Altman, I'm saying an off year happens to good coaches. I usually raised this when people complained about Miller's time period from 18-19 onwards.

Real world stuff affects results. Like if Bol Bol doesn't get injured, Oregon's record in 18-19 looks better. With Miller, the FBI thing was obviously big.

Then just even good coaches have teams and players that don't pan out like you think. Like Oregon's 18-19 team. They had NBA talent in Pritchard and Troy Brown and some decent players around them and were barely over .500 in a pretty weak year for the Pac.

True. Altman's now over a decade into his tenure at Oregon. Will he make it to 20 years? The only Pac coach to do that since Wooden is Lute.

I think there was probably a stretch somewhere over the past 5ish years where Altman could've been a candidate at an elite job somewhere else in the country. Maybe UNC, maybe Kentucky, maybe Kansas. But there's been a lot of coaching stability at these programs. Roy was at UNC for a long time, Calipari's been at UK over a decade, and Self has been at KU since '03. This is all to say: I can't really see Altman leaving for a better job. He doesn't strike me as an NBA type either.

So he's either going to decline a little over the next 5 seasons, as other programs get stronger, and find himself on the hot seat, or he'll keep that program at about the same level for the next 5-10 years and reach his 70th birthday with the Ducks. The latter feels more likely to me.

[Olsondogg]

Altman hid the knowledge of sexual assaults by multiple players to secure bonuses for himself and his staff. He’s had multiple seasons where his teams have been under investigation for rape and he plays dumb.

Why anyone respects this asshole is beyond me.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Here's a thing about Kansas, say Kansas gets killed by the IARP, a post season ban, and Self gets a suspension and a show cause. Kansas isn't getting rid of him, but does he bolt for the NBA. He just got his second natty, is there a reason to stay? And then does Altman get looked at by Kansas? He was at Creighton. Not saying I think that it will happen but Kansas would need someone who can play dumb.

But hey, we got some retribution to get against them so it's fine with me if he is Tommy's whipping boy for a few years yet.

[RaisingArizona]

Our five elite eight teams over the past 20 years have had an average of 4 future NBA players on them - from a low of 2 in 2011 to a high of 6 in 2003.

Yup. That's the biggest concern with losing Mathurin and maybe Koloko. It isn't that there aren't players to replace then, it's that the replacements don't have the high level talent that usually correlates to deep tourney runs.

I mean, we went through this at the beginning of the Miller era too. Kyryl, Bejarano, Jacobson, Lavender, Chol, a bunch I'm forgetting. Once Miller got his feet firmly under him in Tucson, though, it was off to the races. That '12 recruiting class was ridiculous, and the ones that followed were equally stellar. Given Lloyd's recruiting talent, I have zero doubt we're going to see top 5 classes nationally at AZ within a few seasons. Just gotta hang in there.

The part I agree on, you do expect a bit of feeling out in recruiting. Miller obviously reached for guys like Sidiki and Josiah early. Lloyd has shown a tendency not to reach, but instead has brought in relatively low numbers of incoming guys.

Why do you consider Josiah a reach? Like Sean reached on his character? He was clearly Arizona good if he wasn't such a dumbass.

[prh]

Altman hid the knowledge of sexual assaults by multiple players to secure bonuses for himself and his staff. He’s had multiple seasons where his teams have been under investigation for rape and he plays dumb.

Why anyone respects this asshole is beyond me.

And also got that one FF by covering all of that up. Even with our drought, would never trade that stuff for a FF

[Postmaster]

I thought there were some red flags on Turner. Character wise, not skill wise.

[Chicat]

I thought there were some red flags on Turner. Character wise, not skill wise.

I don’t remember any until he came to campus and decided he was going to throw his life away.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I thought there were some red flags on Turner. Character wise, not skill wise.

I don’t remember any until he came to campus and decided he was going to throw his life away.

There were red flags. His high school career had him going school to school and getting kicked off one team, plus parents clashing with coaches. An article:

https://www.rumbleinthegarden.com/2012/ ... r-transfer

"But his high school career was that of a vagabond, playing at Cordova High School, moving to Sacramento High, and transferring to Sheldon High in Sacramento before California Interscholastic rules decreed that he sit out a year for the transfer. Turner went back to Sacramento High and flourished for a time.

Derek Swafford was Turner's coach at Sacramento High. Swafford and Turner - and Turner's mother - clashed over playing time. Turner wouldn't play in blowout wins, and in response Turner missed some games and practices. He was dismissed from the team, and transferred to Quality Education Academy (QEA), where he played with current Red Storm swingman Sir`Dominic Pointer."

I always saw him and Sidiki Johnson as the sort of talented guys with character questions Miller took chances on while he was still laying down recruting connections. You didn't see near as much of Miller taking chances like that once his recruiting was rolling.

[Chicat]

I don’t really view multiple high school teams as a red flag if it’s the parents being demanding, as opposed to them stealing, getting in fights, etc.

I definitely didn’t see it as an indication he was going to become a drug dealer just because his mom wanted him to get more playing time.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don’t really view multiple high school teams as a red flag if it’s the parents being demanding, as opposed to them stealing, getting in fights, etc.

I definitely didn’t see it as an indication he was going to become a drug dealer just because his mom wanted him to get more playing time.

I'll say it two ways. First, I do see multiple schools and getting kicked off a team as a red flag.

Second, not every red flag is fatal. These days, a lot of kids have those flags. It's why I don't criticize Miller too much. There were flags, but not crazy flags (accused of serious crimes, major substance abuse, etc.). Miller gambled on Josiah's flags being something he could overcome to show his talent...and Josiah got worse.

It happens, especially at a point where Miller had to be somewhat creative in recruiting.

[Merkin]

I don’t really view multiple high school teams as a red flag if it’s the parents being demanding, as opposed to them stealing, getting in fights, etc.

I definitely didn’t see it as an indication he was going to become a drug dealer just because his mom wanted him to get more playing time.

Didn't Nic Wise go to 4 different high schools? No red flags with him at all.

[Beachcat97]

4 different high schools...man. And that's on top of the new norm in college where guys transfer multiple times (Ira Lee, Akinjo). The relationship between school and prep/NCAA basketball gets more transactional every generation.

[Chicat]

Lots of kids go to multiple high schools. Including Christian Koloko.

[Beachcat97]

Lots of kids go to multiple high schools. Including Christian Koloko.

Is it because they're hoping to play for a more prestigious prep basketball program? Like, with better teammates?

What are the main reasons for a guy jumping from HS to HS?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Lots of kids go to multiple high schools. Including Christian Koloko.

Is it because they're hoping to play for a more prestigious prep basketball program? Like, with better teammates?

What are the main reasons for a guy jumping from HS to HS?

Prep schools are big. Basically everyone at Oak Hill or IMG started elsewhere.

That's why I said it's a flag, but not necessarily a fatal one. Josiah's biggest red flag for me was the actual dismissal, but even then...these are 16-17 year olds. To a certain extent you're always betting on how well they mature because most are gonna be somewhat immature.

[Beachcat97]

Lots of kids go to multiple high schools. Including Christian Koloko.

Is it because they're hoping to play for a more prestigious prep basketball program? Like, with better teammates?

What are the main reasons for a guy jumping from HS to HS?

Prep schools are big. Basically everyone at Oak Hill or IMG started elsewhere.

That's why I said it's a flag, but not necessarily a fatal one. Josiah's biggest red flag for me was the actual dismissal, but even then...these are 16-17 year olds. To a certain extent you're always betting on how well they mature because most are gonna be somewhat immature.

So basically places like Oak Hill, IMG, Mater Dei, maybe De La Salle are prep "blue bloods," and if a prep standout has a chance to transfer there, it's in his best interest to do that because it increases his visibility, helps him develop as a player, and boosts his chances of getting a scholarship offer from a desirable D-1 college.

[Chicat]

Gotta be tough being 15/16 years old and having adults in your life pulling you in multiple directions. Parents, coaches, mentors, handlers, runners all telling you that everyone else is giving you bad advice and they’re just in it for themselves. Plus, it’s not like these kids are emancipated and can go to any school they want. I’m sure in a lot of cases they have their parents saying “I talked it over with ____ and next year you’re going to attend _____.”

That’s why I don’t fault a kid for having multiple high schools on their resume, especially if they didn’t have to transfer because they got in trouble with their previous school or the law.

[YoDeFoe]

Is going to ten different high schools a red flag? If not, then Oregon's new (and only!) PG is your guy!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Lots of kids go to multiple high schools. Including Christian Koloko.

Is it because they're hoping to play for a more prestigious prep basketball program? Like, with better teammates?

What are the main reasons for a guy jumping from HS to HS?

Prep schools are big. Basically everyone at Oak Hill or IMG started elsewhere.

That's why I said it's a flag, but not necessarily a fatal one. Josiah's biggest red flag for me was the actual dismissal, but even then...these are 16-17 year olds. To a certain extent you're always betting on how well they mature because most are gonna be somewhat immature.

So basically places like Oak Hill, IMG, Mater Dei, maybe De La Salle are prep "blue bloods," and if a prep standout has a chance to transfer there, it's in his best interest to do that because it increases his visibility, helps him develop as a player, and boosts his chances of getting a scholarship offer from a desirable D-1 college.

There's ultimately way more than that. Just in LA, you also have Sierra Canyon and Crossroads. Vegas has Bishop Gorman and used to have Findlay Prep. Phoenix has several...basically nost major cities have a prep program with some degree of national profile.

So it isn't particularly odd, but it always makes you wonder. To Chicat's point, even if it's parental...you have to worry that a parent who doesn't like PT in HS is going to like it even less when a kid sits in college, which is more likely.

Almost regardless of the reason, I think you worry that if a kid jumps a bunch, he jumps from Arizona when (usually it is when and not if) adversity hits. That's why it's always a red flag, but it matters the situation. If it's for a bigger stage, you worry less because there aren't many bigger stages than Arizona.

[Beachcat97]

Almost regardless of the reason, I think you worry that if a kid jumps a bunch, he jumps from Arizona when (usually it is when and not if) adversity hits. That's why it's always a red flag, but it matters the situation. If it's for a bigger stage, you worry less because there aren't many bigger stages than Arizona.

I get this, but I also think we want guys who aren't rattled by adversity. I'm fine with taking a guy who's jumped around, but I'd be less inclined to offer him a scholarship if his track record has basically been that adversity has driven his jumping around.

I think a coaching change is a form of adversity. Mathurin, Terry, Kriisa, Tubelis...these guys could've left, like Akinjo. But they put a little faith in themselves, their new coach and the roster they had coming back. I'm impressed that so many of our guys stuck around.

[Jefe]

Pascoe just told Tommy in the presser that he's surprised Shane Nowell hasn't put his name in the transfer portal. What the hell??

Prior to that Tommy told Bruce he needs to start raising his hand and get permission to ask a question

[UAEebs86]

Columbo SMDH

[Beachcat97]

Going to assume we're not also losing Terry, but now we're looking at:

Kriisa
Terry
Larsson
Tubelis
Ballo

Here's hoping we pick up some high-level transfers in the coming weeks.

Still don't know about Boswell possibly re-classifying either.

[84Cat]

What about the Euro big? Is he still a possibility?

[Postmaster]

Going to assume we're not also losing Terry, but now we're looking at:

Kriisa
Terry
Larsson
Tubelis
Ballo

Here's hoping we pick up some high-level transfers in the coming weeks.

Still don't know about Boswell possibly re-classifying either.

Man, that lineup needs better shooting from 3.

[RondaeShimmy]

Going to assume we're not also losing Terry, but now we're looking at:

Kriisa
Terry
Larsson
Tubelis
Ballo

Here's hoping we pick up some high-level transfers in the coming weeks.

Still don't know about Boswell possibly re-classifying either.

I feel like Tubelis should be moved to the 5, that's where he belongs

Even when we get the Euro big

[YoDeFoe]

Back half of the season look at the projected starting backcourt (using the second UCLA game as a kicking off point, removing post-ankle games for Kerr):

Kriisa: 9.5 pts / 4.7 ast / 2.2 TO / 2.8 reb on 36 / 39 / 91 shooting
Terry: 9.7 pts / 4.1 ast / 1.4 TO / 4.8 reb on 57 / 47 / 63 shooting
Pelle: 7.6 pts / 1.7 ast / 1.7 TO / 3.4 reb on 51 / 40 / 85 shooting

Some offseason work and Kriisa develops a midrange, Terry hits his free throws, Pelle makes better decisions... look out

[Beachcat97]

I mean, we're losing our two best players from this past season. This is not a top 15 roster right now, but given what happens in the offseason, we could get there. We need size and shooting.

Isn't it crazy how we almost never keep our guys for that one extra season where we could get over the hump? Meanwhile, unc and ucla are set to return their entire rosters.

Expected to lose Benn. Thought CK might come back for his senior year, but I completely understand his decision.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I mean, we're losing our two best players from this past season. This is not a top 15 roster right now, but given what happens in the offseason, we could get there. We need size and shooting.

Isn't it crazy how we almost never keep our guys for that one extra season where we could get over the hump? Meanwhile, unc and ucla are set to return their entire rosters.

Expected to lose Benn. Thought CK might come back for his senior year, but I completely understand his decision.

It's modern CBB. I look at it as the pitfall of today. If Lauri doesn't blow up as a freshman, imagine him and Ayton together. If Nnaji doesn't blow up, imagine how much better 20-21 is with him as a soph.

In modern CBB, developing players too well is a gift and a curse. We saw the gift with Benn and Koloko this year. Now we see the curse.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Back half of the season look at the projected starting backcourt (using the second UCLA game as a kicking off point, removing post-ankle games for Kerr):

Kriisa: 9.5 pts / 4.7 ast / 2.2 TO / 2.8 reb on 36 / 39 / 91 shooting
Terry: 9.7 pts / 4.1 ast / 1.4 TO / 4.8 reb on 57 / 47 / 63 shooting
Pelle: 7.6 pts / 1.7 ast / 1.7 TO / 3.4 reb on 51 / 40 / 85 shooting

Some offseason work and Kriisa develops a midrange, Terry hits his free throws, Pelle makes better decisions... look out

Everything about Tubelis screams he's on the cusp of being a good 3 point shooter. For all the development this year's team flashed, I thought Tubelis was going to take that step into a consistent 35-37% shooter from 3 and he didn't. I still think it's there and would help him so much.

[Beachcat97]

I mean, we're losing our two best players from this past season. This is not a top 15 roster right now, but given what happens in the offseason, we could get there. We need size and shooting.

Isn't it crazy how we almost never keep our guys for that one extra season where we could get over the hump? Meanwhile, unc and ucla are set to return their entire rosters.

Expected to lose Benn. Thought CK might come back for his senior year, but I completely understand his decision.

It's modern CBB. I look at it as the pitfall of today. If Lauri doesn't blow up as a freshman, imagine him and Ayton together. If Nnaji doesn't blow up, imagine how much better 20-21 is with him as a soph.

In modern CBB, developing players too well is a gift and a curse. We saw the gift with Benn and Koloko this year. Now we see the curse.

But have we EVER had it happened where one or two guys returned to school for us, bypassing the pros for a year and putting us in a position to build on a previous season's success? It's even happened at Duke and Kentucky over the last decade. Kansas too. It's possible I'm forgetting seasons where we *did* have guys return, but more often, we haven't been able to keep the core of our roster long enough to sustain momentum from a previous season. Happened with Lute a few times, and it's probably not a coincidence that he got to the FF multiple times, unlike Miller.

[goslingswagg]

Going to assume we're not also losing Terry, but now we're looking at:

Kriisa
Terry
Larsson
Tubelis
Ballo

Here's hoping we pick up some high-level transfers in the coming weeks.

Still don't know about Boswell possibly re-classifying either.

If he's as good as I expect him to be, I think the Euro starts over Ballo. Boswell replacing Kier, Euro replacing Koloko - both of those feel like one-to-one replacements. Key addition becomes the guard/wing that will help backfill some of Mathurin's minutes, although he won't be a one-to-one replacement in the same way as Boswell/the Euro, given Bal should be taking some of Benn's minutes.

Need some development from the returners but if that guard/wing transfer addition is high level, this is 100% a top 10 team.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I mean, we're losing our two best players from this past season. This is not a top 15 roster right now, but given what happens in the offseason, we could get there. We need size and shooting.

Isn't it crazy how we almost never keep our guys for that one extra season where we could get over the hump? Meanwhile, unc and ucla are set to return their entire rosters.

Expected to lose Benn. Thought CK might come back for his senior year, but I completely understand his decision.

It's modern CBB. I look at it as the pitfall of today. If Lauri doesn't blow up as a freshman, imagine him and Ayton together. If Nnaji doesn't blow up, imagine how much better 20-21 is with him as a soph.

In modern CBB, developing players too well is a gift and a curse. We saw the gift with Benn and Koloko this year. Now we see the curse.

But have we EVER had it happened where one or two guys returned to school for us, bypassing the pros for a year and putting us in a position to build on a previous season's success? It's even happened at Duke and Kentucky over the last decade. Kansas too. It's possible I'm forgetting seasons where we *did* have guys return, but more often, we haven't been able to keep the core of our roster long enough to sustain momentum from a previous season. Happened with Lute a few times, and it's probably not a coincidence that he got to the FF multiple times, unlike Miller.

14-15 benefitted from Rondae and Ashley returning. Ashley was partially the injury, of course. Trier returning for 17-18, same. Benn did it last year where he'd probably have been a 1st rounder.

I have to disagree a bit in that I'm not certain Duke, Kansas or Kentucky had anyone much higher profile than the guys I named off return unexpectedly.

[Beachcat97]

I mean, we're losing our two best players from this past season. This is not a top 15 roster right now, but given what happens in the offseason, we could get there. We need size and shooting.

Isn't it crazy how we almost never keep our guys for that one extra season where we could get over the hump? Meanwhile, unc and ucla are set to return their entire rosters.

Expected to lose Benn. Thought CK might come back for his senior year, but I completely understand his decision.

It's modern CBB. I look at it as the pitfall of today. If Lauri doesn't blow up as a freshman, imagine him and Ayton together. If Nnaji doesn't blow up, imagine how much better 20-21 is with him as a soph.

In modern CBB, developing players too well is a gift and a curse. We saw the gift with Benn and Koloko this year. Now we see the curse.

But have we EVER had it happened where one or two guys returned to school for us, bypassing the pros for a year and putting us in a position to build on a previous season's success? It's even happened at Duke and Kentucky over the last decade. Kansas too. It's possible I'm forgetting seasons where we *did* have guys return, but more often, we haven't been able to keep the core of our roster long enough to sustain momentum from a previous season. Happened with Lute a few times, and it's probably not a coincidence that he got to the FF multiple times, unlike Miller.

14-15 benefitted from Rondae and Ashley returning. Ashley was partially the injury, of course. Trier returning for 17-18, same. Benn did it last year where he'd probably have been a 1st rounder.

I have to disagree a bit in that I'm not certain Duke, Kansas or Kentucky had anyone much higher profile than the guys I named off return unexpectedly.

In '2014-15, Calipari had the Harrison twins return, also Willie Cauley-Stein. Team got to the FF.

Also in 2014-15, Coach K had Quinn Cook back (senior starting PG), along with Amile Jefferson. Team won it all.

In 2017-18, Self had Devonte Graham back (senior), Azubuike (sophomore), and Mykhailiuk (senior). Team got to the FF.

I'm not suggesting that Kentucky, Duke and Kansas have somehow avoided losing guys early. They always do, just like us. But just within the past decade, each of these programs had at least one year where key guys came back, and you see what happened.