Let's Talk '22

[Beachcat97]

Can you imagine this guy in our frontcourt, alongside AT and OB:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fda-HgX7UkM

I can't imagine alongside those two and Veesar.

My goodness. Reel em in, Tommy!

[YoDeFoe]

I've put zero faith and stock in this recruitment but I know Lloyd doesn't stay involved in a player just for fun... assuming we return Dalen and land Henri... where does this dude get his minutes?

[Beachcat97]

I've put zero faith and stock in this recruitment but I know Lloyd doesn't stay involved in a player just for fun... assuming we return Dalen and land Henri... where does this dude get his minutes?

The way I see it, we had three key subs this past year: Ballo, Larsson, and Kier

If DT is back, our starting lineup is almost certainly: KK, DT, PL, AT, OB.

Efe, Henri, Anderson, and our expected guard transfer would compete for those three rotation spots. Or...maybe Tommy extends the bench.

I think Tommy would have to sell Efe on being part of a defending Pac champion with national championship aspirations. Not sure Maryland and Florida can offer that.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've put zero faith and stock in this recruitment but I know Lloyd doesn't stay involved in a player just for fun... assuming we return Dalen and land Henri... where does this dude get his minutes?

That's why I can't see all 3. 80 minutes at PF/C. 30 to Tubelis, 25 each to Ballo and Veesar and that's a wrap.

No disrespect, BC, but you can't just count bench spots, it has to fit with personnel and none of the 4 guys we're discussing should be playing anywhere but 4 and/or 5, IMO.

[goslingswagg]

I've put zero faith and stock in this recruitment but I know Lloyd doesn't stay involved in a player just for fun... assuming we return Dalen and land Henri... where does this dude get his minutes?

I agree. Not out on him talent-wise, but struggling to see how we keep HV, Ballo, Zu, and Efe all happy considering they are all true posts and expect 20+ mins each. Would also mean we'd be unlikely to see Pelle playing any mins at the 4 like we saw some of this past season (and I'm a fan of as a 5-10 min/game wildcard to play depending on the opposition). Maybe Efe is a hedge for if HV isn't ready to play 20-25 mins per game right away and/or injury insurance from one of Ballo/Zu/HV...just want to make sure we don't take him at a detriment to team cohesion/chemistry.

[ChooChooCat]

Yeah someone will not be happy with their PT if we land Efe. I’d certainly argue that Efe is a better fit for us than Ballo, but not sure Tommy would do that to Ballo. A combo forward makes much more sense than adding another pure 4/5 to the roster.

[YoDeFoe]

I've put zero faith and stock in this recruitment but I know Lloyd doesn't stay involved in a player just for fun... assuming we return Dalen and land Henri... where does this dude get his minutes?

That's why I can't see all 3. 80 minutes at PF/C. 30 to Tubelis, 25 each to Ballo and Veesar and that's a wrap.

No disrespect, BC, but you can't just count bench spots, it has to fit with personnel and none of the 4 guys we're discussing should be playing anywhere but 4 and/or 5, IMO.

My only "I guess it's possible" here is Ballo stays at 15min/g, Zu stays at 25min/g, HV gets 20 min/g, and we have 20min/g for Efe. Is that enough to keep everyone happy? I don't know, it's surely not the minutes load they each want. But as you know, winning goes a long way in soothing qualms and that roster would be one of the nation's best.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Yeah someone will not be happy with their PT if we land Efe. I’d certainly argue that Efe is a better fit for us than Ballo, but not sure Tommy would do that to Ballo. A combo forward makes much more sense than adding another pure 4/5 to the roster.

Maybe, but I don't think you can write out Ballo a year after you brought him in and he performed above expectations. That would be a cold-ass move for a kid who followed him from Zaga.

The only way Efe makes sense is as a backup plan for if Veesaar does not come, IMO. Otherwise, as YDF says, you're pretty much counting on two to three guys to accept substantially lower roles than they'd get elsewhere.

Veesaar is pretty much a top 20 pick the minute he develops physically. Lottery to high lottery if he irons his J consistency out too. I can't see him loving 20 mpg any more than Ballo would like 15.

[ChooChooCat]

Yeah someone will not be happy with their PT if we land Efe. I’d certainly argue that Efe is a better fit for us than Ballo, but not sure Tommy would do that to Ballo. A combo forward makes much more sense than adding another pure 4/5 to the roster.

Maybe, but I don't think you can write out Ballo a year after you brought him in and he performed above expectations. That would be a cold-ass move for a kid who followed him from Zaga.

The only way Efe makes sense is as a backup plan for if Veesaar does not come, IMO. Otherwise, as YDF says, you're pretty much counting on two to three guys to accept substantially lower roles than they'd get elsewhere.

Veesaar is pretty much a top 20 pick the minute he develops physically. Lottery to high lottery if he irons his J consistency out too. I can't see him loving 20 mpg any more than Ballo would like 15.

Yeah it’ll be interesting what occurs if we do land Efe. Tommy may just roll the ball out and say “the best guy wins the minutes.” It would be a bold move from the Aw Shucks Assassin though and not a very Aw Shucks moves that’s for sure.

[Merkin]

PWO? Played 6 games at Samford then transferred to Western Missouri where I think he played 4 games. Which may mean he has to sit out a year? Not a lot of info on him.

https://gogriffons.com/sports/mens-bask ... mpion/5735

2021-22 (SOPHOMORE): Played in four games.

BEFORE MWSU
2020-21 (FRESHMAN | SAMFORD): Played in six games and averaged 5.3 minutes per game ... averaged 1.3 points and 1.2 rebounds per game ... had career-highs of eight points and four rebounds against Bellhaven (12/21/20) ... shot 2-of-12 from the field, 2-of-11 from the three-point line and made 2-of-2 from the foul line... did not lose a year of eligibility due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

[ChooChooCat]

Yeah, walk on.

[Alieberman]

It's been way too long since one could mention Arizona Basketball and Champion in the same sentence

[KaibabKat]

Which walk-ons from last season are leaving/staying? Any going on scholarship?

[dmjcat]

Looks like a long shot but we have expressed interest

"The odds of me staying in the Draft are pretty high. Going back to college is something that I quite frankly don't plan on doing," answered Brooks.

Although it's likely he turns pro, his family is still fielding phone calls from potential college suitors and there are three he knows that have been in contact.

"I haven't talked to any schools but the couple that I do know are Notre Dame, Arizona and Washington," he said. "I haven't looked at the options or how they play or anything like that."

[Spaceman Spiff]

Brooks is one like that WSU kid where I don't understand how he fits if Veesaar is coming here.

And if he's likely staying in the draft, I see a 0% chance he would transfer for anything other than a guaranteed starting spot.

[Dave]

Maybe Veesaar could play some minutes at SF. It looks like he has a perimeter game and has a great 3pt shot. Abogidi must like what our plan is for him if we made his top 3. Maybe he wants to play a little more on the perimeter.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Maybe Veesaar could play some minutes at SF. It looks like he has a perimeter game and has a great 3pt shot. Abogidi must like what our plan is for him if we made his top 3. Maybe he wants to play a little more on the perimeter.

I would not want that, as it isn't fair to Veesaar. He's a plus athlete as a 4 or 5, but is going to have trouble with perimeter players.

Offensively, his J is up and down, as he's been solid sometimes, but also was just 28% from 3 in the U-18's.

I don't think it's any fairer to Abogidi to ask him to defend on the perimeter. Both those guys are at a disadvantage chasing 2's and 3's.

[YoDeFoe]

So... Leonard Miller played like he'd never heard of the game of basketball in his combine scrimmage today. Feel confident that between his poor shooting in the drill and his clueless play in the scrimmage, Miller will NOT be getting a first round commitment this draft.

With the increased possibility that we could actually land Miller: what does his role look like at Arizona?

[Jefe]

6p 3/10fg 0/6threes 8r 2a 2to in 16 mins

[dmjcat]

[ChooChooCat]

[Chicat]

Well alright alright alright….

[IndianaZonaFan]

So do Henri and Tubelis both start? With Ballo off the bench again?

[ChooChooCat]

So do Henri and Tubelis both start? With Ballo off the bench again?

TBD

[EastCoastCat]

I likes, I likes...

Long and versatile, can score both inside and out, loves sharing the ball/likes to pass from the post, can rim protect.

Sounds like our kind of player.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So... Leonard Miller played like he'd never heard of the game of basketball in his combine scrimmage today. Feel confident that between his poor shooting in the drill and his clueless play in the scrimmage, Miller will NOT be getting a first round commitment this draft.

With the increased possibility that we could actually land Miller: what does his role look like at Arizona?

With Veesaar's commit, I fail to see much role for Miller except as a backup plan if Terry leaves. I doubt his performance in 5x5's hurts his stock much...my first eval of him was fantastic physocal profile and his handle and J scare me every time he tries them.

Miller's 100% a physical profile pick, and really always has been. Now that Veesaar appears to have finally committed, I'd see a solid 7 players destined for significant time, with the available bench spot at combo guard, and lord knows, that is not Miller.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So do Henri and Tubelis both start? With Ballo off the bench again?

TBD

I'd say Henri/Tubelis, but I think the real answer is it will be a 3 man rotation at the 4/5 with all 3 getting roughly consistent minutes regardless of who starts.

[UAEebs86]

What? Who saw this coming?

[NickyBCats]

Choo is the man! That’s all I have to say about that. Excited for HV! LFG!

[Alieberman]

Now when do we sign the mystery Euro.....

[ChooChooCat]

So do Henri and Tubelis both start? With Ballo off the bench again?

TBD

I'd say Henri/Tubelis, but I think the real answer is it will be a 3 man rotation at the 4/5 with all 3 getting roughly consistent minutes regardless of who starts.

Add Abogidi or Miller and that changes up that rotation a bit. Arizona has known Veesaar was coming for close to a year now, so they didn’t start recruiting those guys as insurance in case he got cold feet. You’re looking at a 9 man rotation if it plays out the way Tommy wants.

[Dave]

If you had your choice who would you take? Abogidi or Miller?

[IndianaZonaFan]

I would rather have Efe at this point. He’s been in college already and knows what role to expect if he comes here. Miller appears to want to audition for NBA (not a bad thing, but also not what made this team good last year).

Dream 2022 roster: (not sure we would go 10 deep…but maybe Filip gets garbage time in year 1?)

Kerr Kriisa-25
Dalen Terry- 25
Pelle Larsson-25
Azoulas Tubelis- 25
Henri Veesaar- 25

Adama Bal-20
Oumar Ballo-18
Courtney Ramey- 15
Efe Abogidi- 12
Filip Borovicanin- 10

[Merkin]

So do Henri and Tubelis both start? With Ballo off the bench again?

Looks like a stretch four face to the basket game. Ballo seems more back to the basket so hard to say depending on matchups. Like someone posted above, probably same minutes for all of them. Like Lute said, it's not who starts, but who is out there at crunch time. Zu was often on the bench then.

And Henri, don't go hanging on the rim. You will get called for a T in the PAC for that.

[Spaceman Spiff]

So do Henri and Tubelis both start? With Ballo off the bench again?

TBD

I'd say Henri/Tubelis, but I think the real answer is it will be a 3 man rotation at the 4/5 with all 3 getting roughly consistent minutes regardless of who starts.

Add Abogidi or Miller and that changes up that rotation a bit. Arizona has known Veesaar was coming for close to a year now, so they didn’t start recruiting those guys as insurance in case he got cold feet. You’re looking at a 9 man rotation if it plays out the way Tommy wants.

Fair enough, you have more inside knowledge than my 0 inside knowledge.

It's not the tack I would take, but Lloyd gets paid more money to coach than I do to post here for a reason.

[Spaceman Spiff]

If you had your choice who would you take? Abogidi or Miller?

With Veesaar, I don't see Efe's role. No one mentions it, but Dylan Anderson is also on next year's roster.

So at the 4-5, we have 3 guys set for big minutes and a 4th top 100 freshman to plug gaps. I don't see how adding Efe as a 5th big (and I don't see him being flexed to the perimeter at all) works.

Miller...he would basically work to replace Terry or keep Bal at 5 mpg for a second year in a row. I just don't see it with Efe at all, though.

[ChooChooCat]

If you had your choice who would you take? Abogidi or Miller?

With Veesaar, I don't see Efe's role. No one mentions it, but Dylan Anderson is also on next year's roster.

So at the 4-5, we have 3 guys set for big minutes and a 4th top 100 freshman to plug gaps. I don't see how adding Efe as a 5th big (and I don't see him being flexed to the perimeter at all) works.

Miller...he would basically work to replace Terry or keep Bal at 5 mpg for a second year in a row. I just don't see it with Efe at all, though.

Anderson needs time and wouldn’t figure into the rotation with or without Efe on roster.

The Efe recruitment is very serious, it’s not just a reaching out type of situation. There’s a reason Lloyd wants him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

If you had your choice who would you take? Abogidi or Miller?

With Veesaar, I don't see Efe's role. No one mentions it, but Dylan Anderson is also on next year's roster.

So at the 4-5, we have 3 guys set for big minutes and a 4th top 100 freshman to plug gaps. I don't see how adding Efe as a 5th big (and I don't see him being flexed to the perimeter at all) works.

Miller...he would basically work to replace Terry or keep Bal at 5 mpg for a second year in a row. I just don't see it with Efe at all, though.

Anderson needs time and wouldn’t figure into the rotation with or without Efe on roster.

I don't disagree, but I see a 4th big as basically only a hedge against injury or suspension. I'd rather have that be Anderson than have Efe mad he doesn't play.

Tubelis can handle 30 mpg and Veesaar and Ballo should be ready for 25 apiece. That's all 80 minutes at the 4/5 right there. If Veesaar is more ready than I think he is, he could get 30 too. I'm pretty impressed with him and think he's coming to play big minutes.

[ChooChooCat]

If you had your choice who would you take? Abogidi or Miller?

With Veesaar, I don't see Efe's role. No one mentions it, but Dylan Anderson is also on next year's roster.

So at the 4-5, we have 3 guys set for big minutes and a 4th top 100 freshman to plug gaps. I don't see how adding Efe as a 5th big (and I don't see him being flexed to the perimeter at all) works.

Miller...he would basically work to replace Terry or keep Bal at 5 mpg for a second year in a row. I just don't see it with Efe at all, though.

Anderson needs time and wouldn’t figure into the rotation with or without Efe on roster.

I don't disagree, but I see a 4th big as basically only a hedge against injury or suspension. I'd rather have that be Anderson than have Efe mad he doesn't play.

Tubelis can handle 30 mpg and Veesaar and Ballo should be ready for 25 apiece. That's all 80 minutes at the 4/5 right there. If Veesaar is more ready than I think he is, he could get 30 too. I'm pretty impressed with him and think he's coming to play big minutes.

I don’t disagree at all, Lloyd apparently does though.

[Beachcat97]

I would rather have Efe at this point. He’s been in college already and knows what role to expect if he comes here. Miller appears to want to audition for NBA (not a bad thing, but also not what made this team good last year).

Dream 2022 roster: (not sure we would go 10 deep…but maybe Filip gets garbage time in year 1?)

Kerr Kriisa-25
Dalen Terry- 25
Pelle Larsson-25
Azoulas Tubelis- 25
Henri Veesaar- 25

Adama Bal-20
Oumar Ballo-18
Courtney Ramey- 15
Efe Abogidi- 12
Filip Borovicanin- 10

I really think Ballo starts next year, but otherwise, dayum. That's a roster that can win another Pac title.

Have said this before, but Terry is the key, imo. If we lose him, our ceiling is considerably lower next season, even if we get Miller.

[YoDeFoe]

Look, the last three times Tommy lost in the tournament it was to a team that played only one dude above 6'8" and the obvious lesson to learn is that we need more big men.

[ChooChooCat]

Look, the last three times Tommy lost in the tournament it was to a team that played only one dude above 6'8" and the obvious lesson to learn is that we need more big men.

Or we need more athletic guards/wings.

[YoDeFoe]

Look, the last three times Tommy lost in the tournament it was to a team that played only one dude above 6'8" and the obvious lesson to learn is that we need more big men.

Or we need more athletic guards/wings.

That's my point I don't get how Efe is a real offer at this point with Zu/Ballo/HV already available for starters minutes. I guess the trouble is that if one of those guys goes down, you're really ramping up minutes for the other two and then using Pelle, Anderson, or Boro to backfill any problem minutes.

Maybe what Lloyd learned is that having a three man post rotation is really just a two man rotation plus a player returning from injury.

[ChooChooCat]

Look, the last three times Tommy lost in the tournament it was to a team that played only one dude above 6'8" and the obvious lesson to learn is that we need more big men.

Or we need more athletic guards/wings.

That's my point I don't get how Efe is a real offer at this point with Zu/Ballo/HV already available for starters minutes. I guess the trouble is that if one of those guys goes down, you're really ramping up minutes for the other two and then using Pelle, Anderson, or Boro to backfill any problem minutes.

Maybe what Lloyd learned is that having a three man post rotation is really just a two man rotation plus a player returning from injury.

Hahaha a “LOL” or a smiley face is required after such satire my friend!

Miller may not be a perfect fit, but he makes more sense to me than Efe unless we want to force Ballo out?

[YoDeFoe]

Look, the last three times Tommy lost in the tournament it was to a team that played only one dude above 6'8" and the obvious lesson to learn is that we need more big men.

Or we need more athletic guards/wings.

That's my point I don't get how Efe is a real offer at this point with Zu/Ballo/HV already available for starters minutes. I guess the trouble is that if one of those guys goes down, you're really ramping up minutes for the other two and then using Pelle, Anderson, or Boro to backfill any problem minutes.

Maybe what Lloyd learned is that having a three man post rotation is really just a two man rotation plus a player returning from injury.

Hahaha a “LOL” or a smiley face is required after such satire my friend!

Miller may not be a perfect fit, but he makes more sense to me than Efe unless we want to force Ballo out?

Miller makes a ton of sense in that he's a hyper-athletic combo forward. But even then we're pushing back Bal and Borro, right? And maybe they're okay with that, maybe that's what's best. I don't know.

Also want to admit that seeing Miller play in the combine: Spiff was right and I was way higher on Miller being an immediate dominant dude than I should have been. He's got an elite athletic and physical profile along with some guard skills but his IQ, handle, stroke, and just how he moves on the court (stiff, upright, not locked in) - kid needs time.

[RondaeShimmy]

Way too many bigs

I don't know why people want the wazzu kid at all, fine with the 3 we have and 1 kid (Anderson) in the bullpen

Just the way I see it but we are too slow and not athletic enough at the wings and backcourt (assuming we land Ramsey and Terry comes back) yet again

When you play two traditional post bigs in college who can't go out and play on the perimeter with smaller college bigs defensively or space out the floor offensively, it's a recipe for repeated disaster.

[Chicat]

When you play two traditional post bigs in college who can't go out and play on the perimeter with smaller college bigs defensively or space out the floor offensively, it's a recipe for repeated disaster.

I feel like we’ve seen this movie…

[Spaceman Spiff]

Look, the last three times Tommy lost in the tournament it was to a team that played only one dude above 6'8" and the obvious lesson to learn is that we need more big men.

Or we need more athletic guards/wings.

That's my point I don't get how Efe is a real offer at this point with Zu/Ballo/HV already available for starters minutes. I guess the trouble is that if one of those guys goes down, you're really ramping up minutes for the other two and then using Pelle, Anderson, or Boro to backfill any problem minutes.

Maybe what Lloyd learned is that having a three man post rotation is really just a two man rotation plus a player returning from injury.

Hahaha a “LOL” or a smiley face is required after such satire my friend!

Miller may not be a perfect fit, but he makes more sense to me than Efe unless we want to force Ballo out?

Miller makes a ton of sense in that he's a hyper-athletic combo forward. But even then we're pushing back Bal and Borro, right? And maybe they're okay with that, maybe that's what's best. I don't know.

Also want to admit that seeing Miller play in the combine: Spiff was right and I was way higher on Miller being an immediate dominant dude than I should have been. He's got an elite athletic and physical profile along with some guard skills but his IQ, handle, stroke, and just how he moves on the court (stiff, upright, not locked in) - kid needs time.

Miller will make 100% spectacular plays. 50% spectacular highlights and 50% spectacular disasters.

[YoDeFoe]

Way too many bigs

I don't know why people want the wazzu kid at all, fine with the 3 we have and 1 kid (Anderson) in the bullpen

Just the way I see it but we are too slow and not athletic enough at the wings and backcourt (assuming we land Ramsey and Terry comes back) yet again

When you play two traditional post bigs in college who can't go out and play on the perimeter with smaller college bigs defensively or space out the floor offensively, it's a recipe for repeated disaster.

HV can play on the perimeter (on both ends), Tubelis hopefully gets more perimeter skills on both ends (he showed some willingness to shoot from distance last season), and Efe can play on the perimeter on both ends (though I don't like him taking those shots unless he improves his feel from distance).

[Spaceman Spiff]

Way too many bigs

I don't know why people want the wazzu kid at all, fine with the 3 we have and 1 kid (Anderson) in the bullpen

Just the way I see it but we are too slow and not athletic enough at the wings and backcourt (assuming we land Ramsey and Terry comes back) yet again

When you play two traditional post bigs in college who can't go out and play on the perimeter with smaller college bigs defensively or space out the floor offensively, it's a recipe for repeated disaster.

Landing Ramey would be an absolute best case final lineup, IMO.

Bigs, Ballo, Veesaar and Tubelis. Anderson available in emergencies.

Wings, Dalen, Larsson and Bal.

Guards, Kerr and Ramey. If injury/suspension occurs on the perimeter, you slide from a 5 man rotation into a 4 man rotation. Borocavinin is available to maintain an emergency 5 man depth chart.