Let's Talk '22

[Beachcat97]

Did DT’s departure take the coaching staff by surprise?

They expected he would work out, get some feedback, and then return. When it became clear he had put himself in solid position to not have to return, the staff was aware.

What's interesting, though, is that there may've been critical time lost while the presumption remained that he would return. It's not a great spot for the staff to be in when they're waiting on a key player's decision, and this is just something Tommy's gonna have to get used to. Gonzaga didn't often have guys leave early when they were projected as late 1st/early 2nd round picks.

[Chicat]

Not a whole lot the coaching staff could do except support Dalen as he went through the process.

Tommy doesn’t have the pedigree or reputation of a Coach K where he could actively sabotage a player’s pro prospects and get away with it.

[threenumberones]

But he is from Illinois. That turns my stomach.

It helps if you look at it as hurting Illinois by taking from them to improve our team.

Nope, he's a spy. He's come to sabotage our team. Bill Murray sent him.

[Beachcat97]

Not a whole lot the coaching staff could do except support Dalen as he went through the process.

Tommy doesn’t have the pedigree or reputation of a Coach K where he could actively sabotage a player’s pro prospects and get away with it.

It's true, Chi. And I would never want our coach to become meddlesome or self-serving in this way. It's a terrible look for a program.

Still, whether we want to admit it or not, I do think Dalen's decision caught some off guard. All signs were that he would be back for one more season at AZ.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Did DT’s departure take the coaching staff by surprise?

They expected he would work out, get some feedback, and then return. When it became clear he had put himself in solid position to not have to return, the staff was aware.

What's interesting, though, is that there may've been critical time lost while the presumption remained that he would return. It's not a great spot for the staff to be in when they're waiting on a key player's decision, and this is just something Tommy's gonna have to get used to. Gonzaga didn't often have guys leave early when they were projected as late 1st/early 2nd round picks.

Generally, Gonzaga didn't have a lot of guys who would go late 1st, early 2nd largely on physical gifts. Admittedly, I am not a Gonzaga diehard, but I can't think of a single player they've had where physical gifts alone created late first/early srcomd stock.

They've had a couple who have pushed into the lottery with potential like Collins, Suggs and Holmgren. Maybe Austin Daye counts, but he went top 15.

Also, things have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. Two way contracts and the NBA's commitment to the G League means you don't need to be a 1st rounder any more.

[Beachcat97]

Also, things have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. Two way contracts and the NBA's commitment to the G League means you don't need to be a 1st rounder any more.

You're right, Spiff. The larger context for this is that the G League and NIL have had a profound impact on the sport, and most of Tommy's career at Gonzaga preceded that impact.

I have a lot of confidence in Tommy's ability to navigate this landscape and keep AZ at a high level. But I also expect a significant drop off this coming season, followed by a just-as-significant surge in 2023-24.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also, things have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. Two way contracts and the NBA's commitment to the G League means you don't need to be a 1st rounder any more.

You're right, Spiff. The larger context for this is that the G League and NIL have had a profound impact on the sport, and most of Tommy's career at Gonzaga preceded that impact.

I have a lot of confidence in Tommy's ability to navigate this landscape and keep AZ at a high level. But I also expect a significant drop off this coming season, followed by a just-as-significant surge in 2023-24.

I look at Lloyd like this. We saw he can coach Miller's talent well. The NCAA tournament makes me downgrade excellent to just good.

Now we need tonsee how he recruits talent, develops talent and handles year to year roster management. How he finishes the perimeter rotation going into next year will matter a lot.

[EastCoastCat]

Also, things have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. Two way contracts and the NBA's commitment to the G League means you don't need to be a 1st rounder any more.

You're right, Spiff. The larger context for this is that the G League and NIL have had a profound impact on the sport, and most of Tommy's career at Gonzaga preceded that impact.

I have a lot of confidence in Tommy's ability to navigate this landscape and keep AZ at a high level. But I also expect a significant drop off this coming season, followed by a just-as-significant surge in 2023-24.

I look at Lloyd like this. We saw he can coach Miller's talent well. The NCAA tournament makes me downgrade excellent to just good.

Now we need tonsee how he recruits talent, develops talent and handles year to year roster management. How he finishes the perimeter rotation going into next year will matter a lot.

Wait, we can't evaluate CTL completely based off of just 1 year? You do realize what fanbase you are talking to?

[Beachcat97]

Brooks to UW.

[Dave]

Even with all the changes with the G-League and the two way contracts it feels like Gonzaga players never leave early unless they are lottery picks. Andrew Nembhard was forced to leave this year because this was his 3rd time declaring. Timme is on the same path with two returns. Crazy!

[Spaceman Spiff]

Also, things have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. Two way contracts and the NBA's commitment to the G League means you don't need to be a 1st rounder any more.

You're right, Spiff. The larger context for this is that the G League and NIL have had a profound impact on the sport, and most of Tommy's career at Gonzaga preceded that impact.

I have a lot of confidence in Tommy's ability to navigate this landscape and keep AZ at a high level. But I also expect a significant drop off this coming season, followed by a just-as-significant surge in 2023-24.

I look at Lloyd like this. We saw he can coach Miller's talent well. The NCAA tournament makes me downgrade excellent to just good.

Now we need tonsee how he recruits talent, develops talent and handles year to year roster management. How he finishes the perimeter rotation going into next year will matter a lot.

Wait, we can't evaluate CTL completely based off of just 1 year? You do realize what fanbase you are talking to?

I feel like by the time he's on the job a few years the applicable time period for evaluation will be down to 5 minute increments.

Slow start? Fire him.

[EastCoastCat]

Also, things have changed a lot in the last 5-7 years. Two way contracts and the NBA's commitment to the G League means you don't need to be a 1st rounder any more.

You're right, Spiff. The larger context for this is that the G League and NIL have had a profound impact on the sport, and most of Tommy's career at Gonzaga preceded that impact.

I have a lot of confidence in Tommy's ability to navigate this landscape and keep AZ at a high level. But I also expect a significant drop off this coming season, followed by a just-as-significant surge in 2023-24.

I look at Lloyd like this. We saw he can coach Miller's talent well. The NCAA tournament makes me downgrade excellent to just good.

Now we need tonsee how he recruits talent, develops talent and handles year to year roster management. How he finishes the perimeter rotation going into next year will matter a lot.

Wait, we can't evaluate CTL completely based off of just 1 year? You do realize what fanbase you are talking to?

I feel like by the time he's on the job a few years the applicable time period for evaluation will be down to 5 minute increments.

Slow start? Fire him.

[Merkin]

Slow start? Fire him.

Back years ago when we received our news from radio and newspapers, there were many calls to fire Lute after all his first round exits. You know what pundits.

[UAEebs86]

Slow start? Fire him.

Back years ago when we received our news from radio and newspapers, there were many calls to fire Lute after all his first round exits. You know what pundits.

Old joke:

Guy walks into Olson's on Broadway and orders a drink. After he finshes it, he asks the bartender for another.
Bartender says "Sorry, here at Olson's, you have to leave after the first round."

[dmjcat]

To give everyone an idea of where we stand with regards to the players still left in the portal, Emmanuel Akot is one of the top 5.

Not much left.

[GlobalCat]

Wasn't Emoni Bates supposed to be the "next big thing" coming through college hoops? What ended up happening there?

[Beachcat97]

Getting Ramey would help.

[UAEebs86]

[azgreg]

Was that about Ramey?

[UAEebs86]

Was that about Ramey?

Yeah it said Ramey was down to UofA, Purdue, and West Virginia (per Scheer)

[azgreg]

Was that about Ramey?

Yeah it said Ramey was down to UofA, Purdue, and West Virginia (per Scheer)

[UAEebs86]

He dropped Pur-don't since the tweet?

[Beachcat97]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

[Alieberman]

Why would someone choose to spend time in W Virginia?

[Chicat]

Why would someone choose to spend time in W Virginia?

Morgantown is actually really nice and it’s close to Pittsburgh for big city stuff to do.

[YoDeFoe]

The pro's for WVU:

West Virginia is a familiar team to Ramey - he's played them 8 times in his 4 seasons at Texas. Ramey played last season with new WVU transfer Tre Mitchell. No returning starters in the backcourt.

Cons for WVU:

This coming season, they're replacing nearly their entire roster. They literally return the fewest minutes in the entire country. Which might be for the best since WVU went 4-14 in the Big XII last season. Massive turnover following a season of abject failure shouldn't be confidence inspiring for success next season.

WVU returns one rotation player - freshman guard Kobe Johnson - so they are not returning guys with dibs on starting spots in the backcourt. There are, however, already two incoming transfer guards who started at other P5 schools who are going to expect to start (Joe Toussaint and Erik Stevenson). Neither of those guys have more size than Ramey - tough to buy a three guard line-up with three guys 6'3" and under - so it'd be a competition for starting spots at the one and two. Ramey would win out over either guy, but it's still not an ideal locker room to step into.

So... WVU is coming off a Big XII basement ceiling, restocking 93% of their minutes (!!!) with new guys, and can't promise a starting spot to Ramey.

Ramey has the option of starting on a tournament team at Arizona or competing for minutes on a bottom dweller within his old conference. This doesn't seem like a difficult decision to me.

[dmjcat]

Wildcat Authority front page shows that #45 from Campbell is currently visiting AZ.

https://247sports.com/college/arizona/

#45 is Cedric Henderson, who is in the transfer portal.

https://gocamels.com/sports/mens-basket ... n-jr-/8622

[UAEebs86]

Why would someone choose to spend time in W Virginia?

Morgantown is actually really nice and it’s close to Pittsburgh for big city stuff to do.

One of my best buddies' daughter just decided to go there. They are from Maryland and very liberal family so I was surprised she picked WVU. I drove through Morgantown once on a business trip but only got to experience a couple smaller towns in WV - hard pass.

[Dave]

Cedric Henderson Jr would be a great addition on and off the court.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

Their top 4 guards were all seniors. Of course, eligibility and the portal could influence the current situation.

[ChooChooCat]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

Their top 4 guards were all seniors. Of course, eligibility and the portal could influence the current situation.

They recruited Toussaint from Iowa to play the 1 and Stevenson from South Carolina to play the 2. Ramey could possibly beat either of them out, but I don't know if WV is truly offering a starting role like I know we are for him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

Their top 4 guards were all seniors. Of course, eligibility and the portal could influence the current situation.

They recruited Toussaint from Iowa to play the 1 and Stevenson from South Carolina to play the 2. Ramey could possibly beat either of them out, but I don't know if WV is truly offering a starting role like I know we are for him.

Stevenson would probably start. I'd start Ramey over Toussaint every day of the week. Plus, WVU played essentially a 3 guard starting rotation, so I'd assume he's starting.

The upside for us is, with Terry leaving, there's now a clear path to starting here too. Kerr, Ramey, Larsson with Bal and maybe another transfer off the bench. Pre-Terry, that wasn't so much an option.

[ChooChooCat]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

Their top 4 guards were all seniors. Of course, eligibility and the portal could influence the current situation.

They recruited Toussaint from Iowa to play the 1 and Stevenson from South Carolina to play the 2. Ramey could possibly beat either of them out, but I don't know if WV is truly offering a starting role like I know we are for him.

Stevenson would probably start. I'd start Ramey over Toussaint every day of the week. Plus, WVU played essentially a 3 guard starting rotation, so I'd assume he's starting.

The upside for us is, with Terry leaving, there's now a clear path to starting here too. Kerr, Ramey, Larsson with Bal and maybe another transfer off the bench. Pre-Terry, that wasn't so much an option.

I didn't realize how bad Toussaint was until I just looked. Disregard, Ramey is definitely starting if they land him. Either way, yes both his options offer starting time. I guess the primary differences is 1. Arizona will be much better than WV if that matters to him and 2. He'll be directly splitting PG duties with another guard right beside him at Arizona, while he's likely the primary for sure PG option for WV.

[Longhorned]

Why would someone choose to spend time in W Virginia?

Morgantown is actually really nice and it’s close to Pittsburgh for big city stuff to do.

Yep. The Uber drivers in Pittsburgh even include Morgantown in their range.

[dmjcat]

[Beachcat97]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

Their top 4 guards were all seniors. Of course, eligibility and the portal could influence the current situation.

Thanks, Spiff, and it's sounding from some of the other posts here that Ramey would actually start alongside KK, PL, AT and OB? Ramey's listed at 6'3, so that's a pretty small ass lineup. But maybe it has some advantages. Or maybe it means Bal and Veesaar get more PT earlier in the year.

Can't remember the last time our roster was so riddled with question marks this late in the offseason!

[Alieberman]

Can't remember the last time our roster was so riddled with question marks this late in the offseason!

Ummm... last year?

[goslingswagg]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

Their top 4 guards were all seniors. Of course, eligibility and the portal could influence the current situation.

They recruited Toussaint from Iowa to play the 1 and Stevenson from South Carolina to play the 2. Ramey could possibly beat either of them out, but I don't know if WV is truly offering a starting role like I know we are for him.

any read on Henderson Choo?

[Beachcat97]

Can't remember the last time our roster was so riddled with question marks this late in the offseason!

Ummm... last year?

Huh?? We returned Mathurin, Kriisa, Koloko, Tubelis, Terry and eventually added Larsson, Kier and Ballo. That strikes me as a much better situation than we're currently in.

[ChooChooCat]

Can WVA offer him a starting spot?

Their top 4 guards were all seniors. Of course, eligibility and the portal could influence the current situation.

They recruited Toussaint from Iowa to play the 1 and Stevenson from South Carolina to play the 2. Ramey could possibly beat either of them out, but I don't know if WV is truly offering a starting role like I know we are for him.

any read on Henderson Choo?

Texas Tech or us.

[Alieberman]

Can't remember the last time our roster was so riddled with question marks this late in the offseason!

Ummm... last year?

Huh?? We returned Mathurin, Kriisa, Koloko, Tubelis, Terry and eventually added Larsson, Kier and Ballo. That strikes me as a much better situation than we're currently in.

There was a long time after we hired Tommy Boy that many thought all or most of those guys were going to transfer

[RondaeShimmy]

Can't remember the last time our roster was so riddled with question marks this late in the offseason!

Ummm... last year?

Huh?? We returned Mathurin, Kriisa, Koloko, Tubelis, Terry and eventually added Larsson, Kier and Ballo. That strikes me as a much better situation than we're currently in.

Everyone but Mathurin and Tubelis was a huge question mark.

Kerr had only played the second half of the conference games, and it wasn't very impressive. Koloko wasn't who he eventually became under Lloyd and he looked really raw and underwhelming under Miller. Terry somewhat similar as Koloko with some differences. All 3 didn't look as good under Miller.

There were some big question marks with that personnel. Even Mathurin looked like he could be mostly a 3pt sharpshooter.

Larsson nobody really knew what he was capable of and remember a lot of doubters before the season. Ballo, no one thought he'd get off the bench for any meaningful mins.

[YoDeFoe]

Thanks, Spiff, and it's sounding from some of the other posts here that Ramey would actually start alongside KK, PL, AT and OB? Ramey's listed at 6'3, so that's a pretty small ass lineup. But maybe it has some advantages. Or maybe it means Bal and Veesaar get more PT earlier in the year.

6'3" / 6'3" / 6'5" / 6'10" / 7'1"

Wouldn't call it a small ass line-up, certainly smaller than last season but if we land Ramey I think we're going to love the defense and ball movement of that backcourt.

[EastCoastCat]

C'mon. Look at the posts from after the CTL hire.

A lot of "could be a top 25 team", "border line Tourney team" and " goal to be top 3 Pac" predictions if I recall correctly.

[YoDeFoe]

Here's Sam Vecenie (my favorite draft analyst) and CJ Moore (formerly covered the Wildcats) from the Athletic on Courtney Ramey:

Remaining transfers rank

2. Courtney Ramey | 6-3 guard | graduate | Texas

Ramey is just an easy fit into any backcourt as an absolutely terrific 3-and-D player who profiles exceedingly well next to a creative guard. Ramey locked up some of the Big 12’s best players this season for Texas, including potential Kansas lottery pick Ochai Agbaji. On top of that, he has hit 37 percent of his 3s over the course of his time in college, and has shown the occasional ability to play some point because he’s a reliable decision-maker (even if he’s not necessarily the most natural playmaker or ballhandler). A third-team All-Big 12 selection in 2021, Ramey isn’t officially in the portal yet, but he has announced through his father’s Twitter account that he’ll be entering the 2022 NBA Draft as well as exploring his transfer options. If that’s the case, we would anticipate him being highly sought after as a solid power conference starter who can reliably take tough assignments and make shots. He’s the kind of scalable player to any situation who helps teams win games.

---
Pairs perfectly next to a creative guard. Hmmm...

(Edit: old analysis, this is from a few weeks ago, but nice reminder)

[Alieberman]

C'mon. Look at the posts from after the CTL hire.

A lot of "could be a top 25 team", "border line Tourney team" and " goal to be top 3 Pac" predictions if I recall correctly.

That was after everyone said they were coming back. But unless I'm losing my mind (which is very much possible) I remember a lot of "Tommy Who?" and fears of losing a bulk of players bolting for the transfer portal.

[RondaeShimmy]

Thanks, Spiff, and it's sounding from some of the other posts here that Ramey would actually start alongside KK, PL, AT and OB? Ramey's listed at 6'3, so that's a pretty small ass lineup. But maybe it has some advantages. Or maybe it means Bal and Veesaar get more PT earlier in the year.

6'3" / 6'3" / 6'5" / 6'10" / 7'1"

Wouldn't call it a small ass line-up, certainly smaller than last season but if we land Ramey I think we're going to love the defense and ball movement of that backcourt.

I kind of like 3 guards to pair with the twin towers better than two guards and a big long wing. Especially if it's Henri who hopefully does spread out the floor even more. I think it helps the offensive flow far better to have 3 smaller guys out there with the bigs

Only exception would be if Bal becomes an absolute dead sharpshooter.

[YoDeFoe]

Thanks, Spiff, and it's sounding from some of the other posts here that Ramey would actually start alongside KK, PL, AT and OB? Ramey's listed at 6'3, so that's a pretty small ass lineup. But maybe it has some advantages. Or maybe it means Bal and Veesaar get more PT earlier in the year.

6'3" / 6'3" / 6'5" / 6'10" / 7'1"

Wouldn't call it a small ass line-up, certainly smaller than last season but if we land Ramey I think we're going to love the defense and ball movement of that backcourt.

I kind of like 3 guards to pair with the twin towers better than two guards and a big long wing. Especially if it's Henri who hopefully does spread out the floor even more. I think it helps the offensive flow far better to have 3 smaller guys out there with the bigs

Only exception would be if Bal becomes an absolute dead sharpshooter.

Yeah two things there:

1. Bal and Boro provide ridiculous change of size / length off the bench, so if we need to get bigger in a match-up, we can get bigger. You put Bal out there at the two with his 6'11" wingspan and the backcourt length gets spooky.

2. Pelle is a pretty big long wing as it stands. 6'9" wingspan and 215lbs, cut from stone - the kid is a legit college SF. Again, hoping we land Ramey, but you pair Kerr, Ramey, and Larsson and that's not a weak defensive perimeter - it's an upgrade over last season.

Like you said, the offensive flow is probably going to be damn delightful with three guys who can penetrate, dish, and shoot on the perimeter. We might have three guys who can shoot >38% from deep with volume starting for us in the backcourt next season, all three of which have PG experience as well - AND they're tough defenders.

Ramey... pls.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Thanks, Spiff, and it's sounding from some of the other posts here that Ramey would actually start alongside KK, PL, AT and OB? Ramey's listed at 6'3, so that's a pretty small ass lineup. But maybe it has some advantages. Or maybe it means Bal and Veesaar get more PT earlier in the year.

6'3" / 6'3" / 6'5" / 6'10" / 7'1"

Wouldn't call it a small ass line-up, certainly smaller than last season but if we land Ramey I think we're going to love the defense and ball movement of that backcourt.

This, perfectly fine for the college level. Potentially even more than fine.

Ramey's defensive metrics have always exceeded his offensive metrics. Being a somewhat combo guard is very much to his strength and he's never struggled to defend either guard spot.

Unless we added on a really high level transfer, Ramey would start at the 2 alongside Kerr. I rated him as a backup when we had DT, he's now about as good as you could ask for in a DT replacement.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Can't remember the last time our roster was so riddled with question marks this late in the offseason!

Ummm... last year?

Huh?? We returned Mathurin, Kriisa, Koloko, Tubelis, Terry and eventually added Larsson, Kier and Ballo. That strikes me as a much better situation than we're currently in.

There was a long time after we hired Tommy Boy that many thought all or most of those guys were going to transfer

This. When it became clear we returned a group of 5 starters, we were fine, but there was a time it wasn't a given. Kerr was in the portal, Mathurin was looking at entering the draft...there was a lot up in the air.

I will say, I always thought the potential of the core group was there. In a way, that's why 20-21 was sort of a frustrating year. The potential was there to tease us, but we were just barely short in 4 or 5 games.