Peace

Spaceman Spiff · Post by **Spaceman Spiff** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 5:25 pm

Mods can move, but I figured I'd say goodbye to the people who only post here.

I've had positive interactions with a lot of you guys, so no disrespect. I'm sure I'll forget a few people I should have named, but shout out to TucsonClip and YoDefoe for great basketball takes and to Choo and 97 for insight I'd never have had without you.

If you care why I'm out (and you by no means have to):

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2049&p=555434#p555434

I post more fully there, but I'm just over how how people treat each other and what's allowed here. I try to have love for my Wildcats and everyone who knows what it is to be a little too into Arizona basketball. Bear Down! Peace.

--J

RawleArenas · Post by **RawleArenas** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:03 pm

I'm totally with you Spiff. There's an old saying that 'wise men differ, and only fools fall apart'.

I can never understand for the life of me why a bunch of UofA alumni, mostly middle aged, would spend time throwing darts at each other when we have far more things in common then we do different. We can have a spirited debate on sports, for sure, that's fair game. But mean spirited, personal/venal attacks? I'll pass.

It's that same yahooey attitude that turns off a lot of people who watch our fanbase from a distance. It's why I didn't like the attitude some of the players had when we posed and taunted the opposing team's fans after games this past season. It's not who we are, and I don't want to see it continue in the future.

I really hate to see you go, because I steal a lot of your takes and use them on other websites.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:04 pm

WHAT?

Dude, I didn't even know we had a politics board (probably not true, I just have a bad memory). Can we deescalate this?

Simply, I don't talk like that to other people. I think it's ugly and a really poor reflection on the board. I hope no one would find in my posting history attacking people and hurling insults. Finally, I leave this board for long periods of time because stuff like that. It's hard to maintain wanting to keep talking Arizona basketball with people when you see this side. I've felt that way for a bit, so I'll put my money where my mouth is.

That's not only defensible but the standard we should expect, and we don't see that kind of disrespectful talk in our sports boards (or at least basketball, the only board I frequent). If we did, I wouldn't be here either.

Mod solution?

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:07 pm

Why can't he just stay on the upper boards and not be a drama queen and announce his exit from all of BDW?

Everyone on the lower boards knows there is almost no moderation down there.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:23 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:07 pm Why can't he just stay on the upper boards and not be a drama queen and announce his exit from all of BDW?

This. Just stay on the upper boards. You're basketball knowledge is well appreciated there.

We lost another good upper board poster in DC4. He dared to venture in the lower boards, then never returned.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:47 pm

I hope you don’t go

Folks really should make arguments without getting personal in the political boards

People are really out of patience with nothing getting done school shooting after school shooting…

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:28 pm

Sorry to see you go Spiff. Really enjoyed your Basketball takes so your insights will be missed.

I decided to stay away from the lower political boards a long time ago. But that was just me. Others get into it and that’s fine.

Remember, opinions are like assholes…everyone has one.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:30 pm

Merkin wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:23 pm
UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:07 pm Why can't he just stay on the upper boards and not be a drama queen and announce his exit from all of BDW?

We lost another good upper board poster in DC4. He dared to venture in the lower boards, then never returned.

Don't think this is correct Merk. I just did a quick search and I didn't see any posts in the lower boards from dc4azcats.

I've met DC before. Good guy. He was a bit of a UofA football homer, so he often got into battles with some of the Debbie Downers on the upper football boards.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:56 pm

Best wishes dude. I get it. People here treat anyone they don't agree with like shit.

You are a good dude

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:02 pm

As much of an asshole as I am on the lower boards I'm surprised we've had the benefit of your posts at all Spiff. Sorry to see you go.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:39 pm

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 6:07 pm Why can't he just stay on the upper boards and not be a drama queen and announce his exit from all of BDW?

Everyone on the lower boards knows there is almost no moderation down there.

I don’t know how you saw “don’t be a dick and personally attack people, it’s causing me to step away” and then decided to respond by personally attack Spiff. Legit asking for some self reflection on what is the appropriate way to talk to each other.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:45 pm

Thanks for the neg rep for speaking the truth scumdevils86. Hope you are doing well you obsessed little man

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 8:58 pm

We’re not a big community here. I remember finding this board, what feels like pretty darn recently still, and feeling really thankful that there was a group of Arizona fans as insanely dedicated as me who still maintained decency and inclusion.

This board has been the least toxic and most generous that I’ve ever be a part of… I never see folks getting flamed. No name calling or shunning.

We’re not a big community here. But this board holds an outsized part of my love for Arizona basketball… it’s not the website design (God love ya, Devil) or the exclusive info. It’s the folks who come here to discuss and celebrate and grieve Arizona sports together. Each one of us is a brick that holds this place up.

Among those bricks, Spiff is a cornerstone of this board. So for him to raise an issue as something worth walking on, and to be well wished away or denigrated on the way out… that’s just wrong. It’s short sighted and it’s a disappointing failure to recognize the value that he brings.

Treat each other better. Don’t give in to the cheap satisfaction of bashing your fellow fan. If someone tells you they take issue with what they feel is a personal attack, cool off and take heed. You may be running off one of our own.

Look out for each other. We’re not a big community here.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:46 pm

I really hope the neg repling makes the mentality weak feel better

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:50 pm

Guess I'm going to have to agree to disagree YDF.

The upper and lower boards have always been treated different and everybody knows that.

I don't think someone should come on to the upper boards to whine about how he and others were treated on the lower boards and pronounce he's leaving the whole site.

If you can't handle the lower boards, stick to the upper boards, or leave. And don't make a big announcement on the upper boards about how all the mean girls on the lower boards caused it on the way out.

AZCatGirl · Post by **AZCatGirl** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:52 pm

Like others, I gave up the lower boards for the same reasons. I hope you decide to come back and just stay up here, but I certainly can't blame you for staying gone with some of the replies in this very thread.

Good luck Spiff. You'll be missed.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:53 pm

I see a distinction between the sports-focused boards and the others. And I honestly thought everyone else did too. As in, the sports-related boards are why we are all here and the others are just distractions.

Are the interactions on the boards that are not related to Arizona Basketball or Football or any other sport that are mean-spirited or contentious really so numerous or pervasive that they are bleeding into sports-related threads? Is this something I’m missing?

As an avid participant in what is an unmoderated board, I am honestly curious if the existence of those boards or the personas that are exhibited there are truly a problem. And if they are, do you think those boards should be eliminated?

KillerKlown · Post by **KillerKlown** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:02 pm

I'm not much of a forum poster more of a reader of the boards and I've put you in with being one of the familiar posters of this community for the last decade so it sucks to lose another one.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:04 pm

As the resident newb here I have to ask: the lower boards means Non Sports Talk, right?

Maybe it should be renamed Thunderdome.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:10 pm

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:04 pm As the resident newb here I have to ask: the lower boards means Non Sports Talk, right?

You are correct sir.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:14 pm

This screams I want to be a huge asshole to anyone I don't agree with but no one I disagree with better call me out on it

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:47 pm

Damn you old folks get real hot and bothered down on those lower boards lol. It's a shame to see someone who contributes frequently to actual sports discussion leave, and I would advise anyone who can't compartmentalize politics and sports talk to never venture down there, even to read. Eventually it'll just color your view of someone negatively unless you can just let everything roll off you like water off a ducks back.

Myself? I'm so apathetic at this point to most things that I'm just trying to enjoy some Arizona sports with some pals before the planet bursts into a ball of flame

Siempre Verde · Post by **Siempre Verde** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:02 pm

WTH, Spiff? I’ll be that one. Don’t leave!!!! I really appreciate your takes. Stay away from the BS. I hope your aircraft gets returned to the gate. I really hope you’ll stay.

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Fri Jun 10, 2022 11:32 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 7:28 pm Sorry to see you go Spiff. Really enjoyed your Basketball takes so your insights will be missed.

I decided to stay away from the lower political boards a long time ago. But that was just me. Others get into it and that’s fine.

Remember, opinions are like assholes…everyone has one.

You're right. Opinions are like assholes and my opinion is that too many people on the lower boards try to pile on and act like dicks to those that might propose something a bit outside their echo chamber.

This is a damn shame. I dont know shit about basketball and have learned alot from Spiff. I've also appreciated his point of view on the lower boards because he sometimes has a different perspective from the vast majority who only take a break from their stroking each other to inappropriately go off on any slightly different takes.

Spiff, you are a valuable poster here-certainly far more valuable than I can ever hope to be. Hope you reconsider and stay.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:51 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:53 pm I see a distinction between the sports-focused boards and the others. And I honestly thought everyone else did too. As in, the sports-related boards are why we are all here and the others are just distractions.

Are the interactions on the boards that are not related to Arizona Basketball or Football or any other sport that are mean-spirited or contentious really so numerous or pervasive that they are bleeding into sports-related threads? Is this something I’m missing?

As an avid participant in what is an unmoderated board, I am honestly curious if the existence of those boards or the personas that are exhibited there are truly a problem. And if they are, do you think those boards should be eliminated?

It’s an interesting topic. In my original comments I considered adding why do we even have the lower boards to some extent. The foundation and the cornerstone of this community, I thought, was around everyone’s passion for U of A sports and sports in general.

Of course the reality of life is much more than that and we also all have differing opinions which leads to healthy but respectful discourse. In the upper boards, and maybe it’s just me, the attacks on folks like BC and several negative stalkers is more good natured ribbing. The Bug vs BC feud is comical at times as an example.

But on the lower boards, specifically the social and political ones and not the beer/cigar/scotch ones or even the funny Darwinism threads and the like, the vitriolic tone is pretty nasty. Let’s face it, we eat our own down there and varying opinions are not very welcomed in my old and humble opinion. And please don’t respond with the hackneyed statement “if you come with facts we welcome your opinion”. We now live in a world where fact and fiction are a bit blurred. Just the way it is. And trust me I get the passion and feelings that are out there and never do I think people should not express their opinions. The problem is the discourse is neither heathy or respectful in that arena unlike the upper boards.

So the question that is posed - is it ok to have 2 different “approaches” in the same community. Not to knock on Spiff because we all know he adds value to these boards, but is this a one off situation or will it lead to more great posters leaving? Something to think about.

I for one don’t mind living here in two different worlds (insert Seinfeld episode here) if that’s what the consensus wants. We just have to admit and recognize those worlds have to somehow coexist.

Chi, you and I probably differ on a lot of social and political takes. Doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate and enjoy your insights, humor, and wit. I was genuinely bummed we weren’t able to meet up for dinner/drinks in Chicago because we got shipped to the South (still blame that on ‘97). I don’t judge you on what your opinions are on the lower boards and you probably don’t care that I’m an old, white supremist.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:21 am

I enjoy the lower boards. I discover a lot down there.

The Politics Board has always had its own rules (basically none) I would welcome the change to keep it more respectful. As a mod here, I'm willing to step up and help clean it up if that's what people want.

And for the record- I was 1 of the people who had been "arguing" with Spiff down there but I never felt I said anything that would be considered below the belt. I'll read back through my posts though. If I did get personal- I sincerely apologize.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:37 am

This is largely about me. I obviously have to acknowledge that.

It should also be acknowledged that I don’t participate as much on the sports boards as others and don’t offer nearly as much insight or value as they do.

That brings up 2 things:

I can be the one to take a step back and I doubt my basketball or football hot takes would truly be missed.

But also, with so much less interaction on the upper boards, why is it so difficult to coexist with me and why would it drive Spiff away? Am I also jumping into every discussion of his and ruining threads being an asshole? It seems to be that Spiff just doesn’t like me and my mere existence is causing his departure. I will admit I can be a jerk and I’m certainly not everyone’s cup of tea, but I try to be cordial when participating in those forums which are the reason we all come to this site.

It’s the offseason so the lower boards are going to be more lively. Curiosity may drive posters to check them out, and I have to acknowledge again that they may not like what they see. If the community would like to see the Politics Board moderated or gone, we should put it to a vote.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:59 am

Also, may I add this community/boards are our own little sanctuary from the "vagaries of life" so to speak. I spend a lot of time here to escape and take a break as we all have crosses to bear (that's 2 ECC idioms for those keeping count).

We shouldn't take ourselves too seriously is my point. To further this discussion may I impart the wisdom of Sir George Carlin:

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:06 am

I still don't get why people always use that echo chamber reference. Most people have drawn lines in the sand at this point in their lives and will not be changing their minds no matter what you say.

Civility in politics was a fun little experiment for awhile in this country but it's not who we've ever been really. There used to be duels on the capitol steps and one dude almost got beat to death inside the building proper!

All I'm really saying is if you're gonna go talk about hot button issues, especially in today's political climate, you should absolutely expect to feel personally attacked at some points. If that's not for you then just don't go down there, not even to lurk.

Alieberman · Post by **Alieberman** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:24 am

There is a certain poster here who I have been in a heated conversation with on the politics board while we were simultaneously having a great back and forth about food and restaurants in Tucson.

That's kind of how's it been throughout the years. The Politics board has been our Vegas. What happens in the Politics Board.... stays in the Politics Board.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:40 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 5:37 am This is largely about me. I obviously have to acknowledge that.

It should also be acknowledged that I don’t participate as much on the sports boards as others and don’t offer nearly as much insight or value as they do.

That brings up 2 things:

I can be the one to take a step back and I doubt my basketball or football hot takes would truly be missed.

But also, with so much less interaction on the upper boards, why is it so difficult to coexist with me and why would it drive Spiff away? Am I also jumping into every discussion of his and ruining threads being an asshole? It seems to be that Spiff just doesn’t like me and my mere existence is causing his departure. I will admit I can be a jerk and I’m certainly not everyone’s cup of tea, but I try to be cordial when participating in those forums which are the reason we all come to this site.

It’s the offseason so the lower boards are going to be more lively. Curiosity may drive posters to check them out, and I have to acknowledge again that they may not like what they see. If the community would like to see the Politics Board moderated or gone, we should put it to a vote.

fwiw

I love your honesty Chi. You're an excellent gauge (for me) as to how this site presents itself. Great information and updates and analysis on sports with humor. Absolutely love it. It's a wonderful escape for an ole boomer to just have fun. God knows we need it given the last 2 1/2 years.

Just a quick glimpse above on the issues reinforces for me why I don't read the political boards anymore. This is especially true on the gun/ 2A discussions. Things can get way too hot, and discussions can get very ugly quickly. The exchanges are far from civil.

It's disappointing...it detracts from the way I view opinions posted on basketball or other sports boards. This is where I learned so much about Arizona basketball. (not to mention that other site) I've been so impressed with the generations of stories about Arizona sports/ history.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:54 am

IIRC Spiff was pretty restrained. He mitigated vulgarity on his part: "f*ck" and "sh*t" and such was about as blue as he got. And he limited non-sports engagement. I can appreciate his inner Marquess of Queensbury, but it strains modern online manners for the average Neanderthal to channel Judith Martin while taking a standing 8 count. It's also hard to expect homogeneity in manners across an entire group of participants. If you want to make your case that I'm a cunt just remember it's your and my sandbox we happen to be shitting in at the moment, and it's a segregated conversation. I neither insist that you be as vulgar as I am nor do I expect all others in all the other sandboxes to have a similar lack of forbearance. I don't base my relationships with people on how they treat you.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:01 am

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:54 am I don't base my relationships with people on how they treat you.

But the problem is a lot of people do. I mean I don't come across too many people that say "hey I really like that Dove guy, he treats me like total dogshit but love hanging out with him".

Did I understand you correctly?

pc in NM · Post by **pc in NM** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:07 am

The "lower boards" have existed, even thrived, here for longer than any similar component of the variety of U of A sports discussion boards over the past 25+ years!!

Of the various such sites that I have participated in, ever since the America Online boards that I first discovered back in the '90's, I commend this one for the success of the lower boards, and strongly support their continuation!

I find that the majority that participate here are left-leaning, and I think that might be an aspect that's contributed to their survival. And, of course, many of the topics and discussions have been intense, passionate and "uncivil". And, while that sometimes can be unsavory, how could any such collection of sports fans not "go there" sometimes???

I myself have been the focus of insults, rejections and distorted "takes" on many of my own contributions. I'm shocked!! Shocked, I tell you!!!

But, being pissed off by someone resorting to personal attacks instead of actual debate (or merely ignoring me) in a mostly anonymous forum is really only an initial, transient feeling, and, not worth nurturing beyond that. We have strongly felt disagreements. D'uh!!! Shit happens! Deal with it, or not!! It doesn't mean shit to a cow!!!

Sports are, and should always be, a diversionary entertainment in a fast moving, complicated and often horrifying world. The lower boards often are focused on what the sports could and should be diverting our attention from. I check them every day, and appreciate the chance to participate.

As for CHI?? Thanks for all your contributions, man!! And, BTW, Fuck you, too!!

Fishclamps · Post by **Fishclamps** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:12 am

That's the problem though, some people can't separate their feelings to talk about sports when they know the other's political beliefs on any forum, let alone here. It's why I refused to ever talk politics with my dad when he was still alive, and even my mom who is closer to my political alignment. It's just gonna cause unnecessary friction between people who would be friends normally.

Sometimes ignorance can be bliss.

dovecanyoncat · Post by **dovecanyoncat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:21 am

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:01 am
dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:54 am I don't base my relationships with people on how they treat you.
But the problem is a lot of people do. I mean I don't come across too many people that say "hey I really like that Dove guy, he treats me like total dogshit but love hanging out with him".

Did I understand you correctly?

I probably said it poorly. I just meant that how I treat Longhorned is not how I expect Ari to treat UAEebs, so why should I base my relationship with UAEebs on how he treats Longhorned? But even if I did, is it right for me to expect that standard in others?

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:32 am

dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:21 am
EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 7:01 am
dovecanyoncat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:54 am I don't base my relationships with people on how they treat you.
But the problem is a lot of people do. I mean I don't come across too many people that say "hey I really like that Dove guy, he treats me like total dogshit but love hanging out with him".

Did I understand you correctly?
I probably said it poorly. I just meant that how I treat Longhorned is not how I expect Ari to treat UAEebs, so why should I base my relationship with UAEebs on how he treats Longhorned? But even if I did, is it right for me to expect that standard in others?

Carcassdragger · Post by **Carcassdragger** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:12 am

Come back Spiff. Don't let those who can't engage in reasonable discourse dictate your presence here.

And where is Cordy when we really need him?

BBQ wildcat · Post by **BBQ wildcat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 10:19 am

I certainly do hope Spiff changes his mind and returns. I am extremely UNknowldgeable about most sports, other than I really enjoy watching them. And really enjoyed Spiff's takes and insight.

I visited the lower boards a coupls of times and quickly decided to just stay away because of the likelihood of things getting too heated. Hot button issues can quickly degenerate into attacks and insults. And "why can't we all just get along" pleas just don't hack it.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:28 pm

I appreciate some of the insights into the lower boards. Like dove, I’m relatively new here.

I also appreciate the call to compartmentalize - I certainly have political differences with good friends and family, and I do my best not to let those views (some of which I might find abhorrent) shade the lens with which I view them.

However: the only way that the compartmentalizing works is that we always treat each other with respect. Our political differences don’t become personal grievances, which lead to insults and contempt. If we get too heated - we stand down. And often we apologize for the dust up and put it behind us later. Our relationship is more important.

To borrow the playground metaphor: we can agree to rough housing in the sandbox, but if that tussling turns personal - it’s unreasonable to expect the one getting sand kicked into their face and called names to leave it in the box. They simply won’t return to the playground. And the rest of the playground should look at that sandbox and wonder if their rules aren’t making the playground at large a worse place to visit.

I believe that’s what Spiff is calling out - it’s okay to disagree, the politics board can exist as a heated place to contend with tough topics, but if you make it personal, if you attack with contempt, if you come after someone’s character… don’t expect that person to dust themselves off and want to play nice with you afterwards.

My call is that the community shouldn’t tolerate that behavior.

YoDeFoe · Post by **YoDeFoe** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 12:45 pm

(I’ll continue to acknowledge that I’m just a guy who keeps showing up here more than I am a fixture of the community. I know I don’t have a soapbox to stand on.)

RondaeShimmy · Post by **RondaeShimmy** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:22 pm

Who's going to take the "always playing devil's advocate to every single thing" championship belt from spiff now?

I don't know what he's posted on the lower boards or the arguments that lead to him leaving but on the (mainly basketball boards) upper boards but it honestly must be exhausting never really having any real opinion on anything and playing devils advocate for every little thing.

Am I the only one who notices that? It's unfortunate to lose a regular in the boards (and unfortunately the premium board with scheer might be the lone exception to the quality going down despite a paywall) but every single spiff post was him presenting option a), b) c) (and so on) never really providing an opinion in the wall of text. It drove me crazy to the point that basically just scrolled past every post didn't read them unless he was quoted.

Probably the lone exception is lately when he seems to have a nagging dislike for Lloyd for overachieving with players that weren't his all year and having a disappointing tournament.

When most of his posts from the Miller years where him constantly saying the tournament is a crap shoot and constantly defending Miller because of it.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 2:39 pm

Nailed it RS

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:05 pm

You know what I blame it on the downfall of?

Society.

Come back, Spiff!

With a shoutout to YoDeFo, yes, let's be good to each other on all the boards.

Seriously, though. It's society. When Merkin mentioned DC (who I also know in person), that's something that happened on the old board. But that was different because it was a different era. It used to be that conservatives and liberals disagreed, and that among college graduates (us), liberals far outnumbered conservatives. DC was just gobsmacked to see how overwhelmingly liberal all the posters were.

Things changed after that. The right moved really far to the right. Republican and independent conservative posters suddenly found themselves on the left. The politics board became a place filled with posters genuinely scared of an aggressive, violent right like we read about in history books. And there were basically no posters on the board who represented the right anymore.

That became a problem for posters who weren't expressing the horror largely felt on the politics board. Those posters felt that everyone was expressing "groupthink," a kind of critically unreflective conformity, and lacking tolerance for other perspectives. And they posted things that sounded like... well, as if one could speak about the current right as if it were the right of Gerald Ford.

But since it's a new extremist right that horrifies so many posters on the board, everyone basically poked and prodded the "balanced posters" to determine whether they understood the positions they were balancing was no longer school cafeteria food v. American airport food, but rather school cafeteria food v. excrement stuffed with razor blades being force fed to your own family. When the "balanced posters" wouldn't assent to that distinction, those posters themselves became perceived objects of horror, and treated as such.

Even eight years ago, that wasn't the case. Society was different. And eight years ago (and more), Spiff was perceived as tending to occupy the middle ground between views. It annoyed the shit out of people, but the middle way was still quaint, almost Buddhist. Over the the past eight years, it hasn't simply been that posters have gotten quick to the personal attack, and dulled into brainless groupthink. More than that, a lot has changed.

Bangkok Wildcat · Post by **Bangkok Wildcat** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:36 pm

AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 9:52 pm Like others, I gave up the lower boards for the same reasons. I hope you decide to come back and just stay up here, but I certainly can't blame you for staying gone with some of the replies in this very thread.

Good luck Spiff. You'll be missed.

THIS! Every single word x 1000%. Well-said.

prh · Post by **prh** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:41 pm

I'm confused at how "cool we're both Wildcats" carries more weight than "we disagree when it comes to people dying" but hmm ok

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sat Jun 11, 2022 9:32 pm

Longhorned wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:05 pm

Seriously, though. It's society. When Merkin mentioned DC (who I also know in person), that's something that happened on the old board. But that was different because it was a different era. It used to be that conservatives and liberals disagreed, and that among college graduates (us), liberals far outnumbered conservatives. DC was just gobsmacked to see how overwhelmingly liberal all the posters were.

Thanks for correcting me that the issue happened at TOS. DC did join us over here for a while.

EastCoastCat · Post by **EastCoastCat** » Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:30 am

prh wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:41 pm I'm confused at how "cool we're both Wildcats" carries more weight than "we disagree when it comes to people dying" but hmm ok

I think you are confused...but about the wrong things. Nobody disagrees when it comes to people dying. Nobody advocates that although when Dove says "Die! Mother Fucker Die!" I have to remind myself he's just joking.

The disagreements are around how do we prevent people from dying in these senseless shootings.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:03 am

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:30 am
prh wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:41 pm I'm confused at how "cool we're both Wildcats" carries more weight than "we disagree when it comes to people dying" but hmm ok
I think you are confused...but about the wrong things. Nobody disagrees when it comes to people dying. Nobody advocates that although when Dove says "Die! Mother Fucker Die!" I have to remind myself he's just joking.

The disagreements are around how do we prevent people from dying in these senseless shootings.

Yes, and there are disagreements about when politics does or doesn't belong on the sports boards. But there is agreement that politics doesn't always belong on the sports board. It seems like having a politics board helps with that. And going back to Goazcats (maybe even earlier), the politics board isn't moderated because it can't be. It's personal. Even the U.S. Senate is ridden with vitriol, hatred, racism, and misogyny.

Sports is personal, too, but in a way where the playing field is level, except when politics genuinely enters sports.

Even the ideal of posters treating one another respectfully has two completing different scales and meanings on the sports and politics board.

So, for the sake of the sports boards, don't get rid of the politics board.

And if you go to the politics board, please be aware that posters aren't going to agree with you if you don't substantiate your position. If you say something unsupportable that falls on the left, you'll be corrected. If you say something unsupportable that falls on the right or balances the left and right, you'll be corrected, but if you keep trying to argue your point in a way that engages the right wing extreme, posters belonging to the vastly left-leaning community down there are going take personal offense and treat your posts as such.

And given the demographics, it quickly becomes an avalanche. College graduates remain overwhelmingly liberal. Among the U.S. population, a minority are Republican, and about 80% of that smaller group are right wing extremists. The Electoral College has no bearing on the message boards. Just as we're not going to change the fact that the vast majority of sports posters on this site are pro-Arizona Wildcats, there's nothing to be done about the vast majority of politics posters on this site being on the left of where 80% of Republicans are.

Posts perceived as anti-Arizona on the sports boards, or anti-liberal on the politics board, come with commensurate risks to how many posters are going to respond.

prh · Post by **prh** » Sun Jun 12, 2022 1:02 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Jun 12, 2022 6:30 am
prh wrote: ↑Sat Jun 11, 2022 6:41 pm I'm confused at how "cool we're both Wildcats" carries more weight than "we disagree when it comes to people dying" but hmm ok
I think you are confused...but about the wrong things. Nobody disagrees when it comes to people dying. Nobody advocates that although when Dove says "Die! Mother Fucker Die!" I have to remind myself he's just joking.

The disagreements are around how do we prevent people from dying in these senseless shootings.

I'm referring to the 2nd post of this thread, not anything on the politics board. To think that we should all get along because we're Wildcats despite differences of opinion on things that ACTUALLY MATTER is pretty ridiculous

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