The 2022-2023 Season Thread

[84Cat]

[azgreg]

The last time they posted something like this we got our ass kicked by Utah.

[WildcatStunner]

Just stay injury free and keep improving defensively, the sky is the limit.

[AZCatGirl]

Saw a tweet that the last 20 tournament winners have come from teams in the top 12 in week 6. So we have a chance

[RawleArenas]

Saw a tweet that the last 20 tournament winners have come from teams in the top 12 in week 6. So we have a chance

I really like this stat. It's even more encouraging that we are the only Pac school listed. That being said, I was impressed with UCLA last night. Their defensive potential is strong and they are not to be taken lightly. It did appear Maryland had one of their worst games ever and that their talent level is no where near UCLA's. Given how the conference has performed up until this point, I think it's safe to say that Arizona, UCLA and ASU are the best in the conference this year, in precisely that order. They all have second (or third) week potential. The issue I have with this year's team is maturity issues. I mentioned it before in my previous post, but I think it bear repeating.

All of the top teams in college basketball take time to celebrate in the locker rooms and in private after big wins. They also take a business like approach to their games. They put their foot on the pedal on both offense and defense. Just look at UCLA last night, or Villanova or Baylor from previous years. They don't celebrate in games and we don't have a history of playing well against physical, athletic and aggressive teams. Tennessee will attack our sloppiness like they did last year, and UCLA and ASU will feast as well. We have a tendency despite our talent level to play like we are going through the motions, which will dig us a hole against really good teams. We are in the 60's in defense in KenPom and need to cut it in half to at least have a shot to make a deep run. If we don't, we could end up like Purdue did last year (second round exit). If we don't change it up, we're not gonna break the 25 year old drought of the Pac (or any west coast team) winning the title.

The thing I worry about the most is the excuses that people make for CTL in his recruiting battles. We need high level athletic players that give us an edge. I know its customary to be dismissive towards ASU and their efforts to appear relevant in basketball, but Hurley is clearly winning battles that we aren't. Top 50 guard (recruited heavily by Texas, Baylor and other top schools) as well as high level, athletic transfers from Power 5 schools that other teams coveted. They don't look like a Pac basketball team. They look like a Big 12/10 hybrid team that can rumble with anyone. Their offense is still developing, but their defense is legit. They can mix it up with pretty much anyone, including Houston and UCONN. I have watched them a few times this season, and they have their best team in over 30 years, including the teams with Harden and the one with Dort, Cheatham and Remy.

If we can't get the guys we need coming off a historic season and sending three guys to the draft as well as having a storied program, then something is wrong. This program went through basketball Armageddon post 2017 and still pulled a top 10 class with CSM. And when the well dried up from there we still pulled the 2020-21 class with multiple NBA players. If he can't get these guys then he needs to find someone who can help him. That's what Hurley did. He realized he needed help with coaching/developing and recruiting (no shocker here) and so he got the guy from Loyola Chicago who was responsible for their success last year. That's the reason why ASU had that turnaround mid to late last season, and the reason why they're starting so strong this year. If Lloyd needs help, he needs to swallow his pride and find someone who can help with defense and recruiting. If he does that, with the Arizona brand and his coaching style, then we're unstoppable. It remains to be seen if CTL sees the writing on the wall.

[RaisingArizona]

Saw a tweet that the last 20 tournament winners have come from teams in the top 12 in week 6. So we have a chance

I really like this stat. It's even more encouraging that we are the only Pac school listed. That being said, I was impressed with UCLA last night. Their defensive potential is strong and they are not to be taken lightly. It did appear Maryland had one of their worst games ever and that their talent level is no where near UCLA's. Given how the conference has performed up until this point, I think it's safe to say that Arizona, UCLA and ASU are the best in the conference this year, in precisely that order. They all have second (or third) week potential. The issue I have with this year's team is maturity issues. I mentioned it before in my previous post, but I think it bear repeating.

All of the top teams in college basketball take time to celebrate in the locker rooms and in private after big wins. They also take a business like approach to their games. They put their foot on the pedal on both offense and defense. Just look at UCLA last night, or Villanova or Baylor from previous years. They don't celebrate in games and we don't have a history of playing well against physical, athletic and aggressive teams. Tennessee will attack our sloppiness like they did last year, and UCLA and ASU will feast as well. We have a tendency despite our talent level to play like we are going through the motions, which will dig us a hole against really good teams. We are in the 60's in defense in KenPom and need to cut it in half to at least have a shot to make a deep run. If we don't, we could end up like Purdue did last year (second round exit). If we don't change it up, we're not gonna break the 25 year old drought of the Pac (or any west coast team) winning the title.

The thing I worry about the most is the excuses that people make for CTL in his recruiting battles. We need high level athletic players that give us an edge. I know its customary to be dismissive towards ASU and their efforts to appear relevant in basketball, but Hurley is clearly winning battles that we aren't. Top 50 guard (recruited heavily by Texas, Baylor and other top schools) as well as high level, athletic transfers from Power 5 schools that other teams coveted. They don't look like a Pac basketball team. They look like a Big 12/10 hybrid team that can rumble with anyone. Their offense is still developing, but their defense is legit. They can mix it up with pretty much anyone, including Houston and UCONN. I have watched them a few times this season, and they have their best team in over 30 years, including the teams with Harden and the one with Dort, Cheatham and Remy.

If we can't get the guys we need coming off a historic season and sending three guys to the draft as well as having a storied program, then something is wrong. This program went through basketball Armageddon post 2017 and still pulled a top 10 class with CSM. And when the well dried up from there we still pulled the 2020-21 class with multiple NBA players. If he can't get these guys then he needs to find someone who can help him. That's what Hurley did. He realized he needed help with coaching/developing and recruiting (no shocker here) and so he got the guy from Loyola Chicago who was responsible for their success last year. That's the reason why ASU had that turnaround mid to late last season, and the reason why they're starting so strong this year. If Lloyd needs help, he needs to swallow his pride and find someone who can help with defense and recruiting. If he does that, with the Arizona brand and his coaching style, then we're unstoppable. It remains to be seen if CTL sees the writing on the wall.

So how exactly does ASU plan on stopping our two bigs? Also, Boswell would be in this class which would make for two five star (ish) recruits. We lost a weird recruitment and got Nike'd for Evans. Oh well.

[TheCat]

Saw a tweet that the last 20 tournament winners have come from teams in the top 12 in week 6. So we have a chance

I really like this stat. It's even more encouraging that we are the only Pac school listed. That being said, I was impressed with UCLA last night. Their defensive potential is strong and they are not to be taken lightly. It did appear Maryland had one of their worst games ever and that their talent level is no where near UCLA's. Given how the conference has performed up until this point, I think it's safe to say that Arizona, UCLA and ASU are the best in the conference this year, in precisely that order. They all have second (or third) week potential. The issue I have with this year's team is maturity issues. I mentioned it before in my previous post, but I think it bear repeating.

All of the top teams in college basketball take time to celebrate in the locker rooms and in private after big wins. They also take a business like approach to their games. They put their foot on the pedal on both offense and defense. Just look at UCLA last night, or Villanova or Baylor from previous years. They don't celebrate in games and we don't have a history of playing well against physical, athletic and aggressive teams. Tennessee will attack our sloppiness like they did last year, and UCLA and ASU will feast as well. We have a tendency despite our talent level to play like we are going through the motions, which will dig us a hole against really good teams. We are in the 60's in defense in KenPom and need to cut it in half to at least have a shot to make a deep run. If we don't, we could end up like Purdue did last year (second round exit). If we don't change it up, we're not gonna break the 25 year old drought of the Pac (or any west coast team) winning the title.

The thing I worry about the most is the excuses that people make for CTL in his recruiting battles. We need high level athletic players that give us an edge. I know its customary to be dismissive towards ASU and their efforts to appear relevant in basketball, but Hurley is clearly winning battles that we aren't. Top 50 guard (recruited heavily by Texas, Baylor and other top schools) as well as high level, athletic transfers from Power 5 schools that other teams coveted. They don't look like a Pac basketball team. They look like a Big 12/10 hybrid team that can rumble with anyone. Their offense is still developing, but their defense is legit. They can mix it up with pretty much anyone, including Houston and UCONN. I have watched them a few times this season, and they have their best team in over 30 years, including the teams with Harden and the one with Dort, Cheatham and Remy.

If we can't get the guys we need coming off a historic season and sending three guys to the draft as well as having a storied program, then something is wrong. This program went through basketball Armageddon post 2017 and still pulled a top 10 class with CSM. And when the well dried up from there we still pulled the 2020-21 class with multiple NBA players. If he can't get these guys then he needs to find someone who can help him. That's what Hurley did. He realized he needed help with coaching/developing and recruiting (no shocker here) and so he got the guy from Loyola Chicago who was responsible for their success last year. That's the reason why ASU had that turnaround mid to late last season, and the reason why they're starting so strong this year. If Lloyd needs help, he needs to swallow his pride and find someone who can help with defense and recruiting. If he does that, with the Arizona brand and his coaching style, then we're unstoppable. It remains to be seen if CTL sees the writing on the wall.

Two things: I watched that Maryland game with UCLA and to me it was UCLA's ability to deflect balls and create turnovers. Maryland had some really open 3's and threw up air balls. There is no way that was a top 20 team. That being said UCLA's Singleton will be a load. Tiger was out early with foul trouble so didn't see much from him.
As far as ASU goes I think they have a VERY deep team of junkyard dogs. They foul a ton but survive because of their depth. I have watched them twice and have seen their athleticism and their shooting ability which is good. If they run any type of structured offense I have not seen it. Looks like guys playing pickup. Their defense is good. Not sure how they will handle our bigs but they will be tough.
Lastly the last major hurdle for recruiting has been cleared up and opposing coaches will no longer be able to say they are going to get hammered. It starts Saturday when we have two major recruits in for the Tenn. game. Play well and rock the homecourt will be important.

[RawleArenas]

You know I thought the same thing about Maryland - that there was no way that they were a top 20 team. I saw some UCLA fans comment that they played a really tough schedule over the past 10 days and were just gassed and mentally checked out. Apparently they played much better against Wisconsin, Tennessee and Illinois (all ranked) as evidenced by the final scores. Over the season we'll see how good they really are. But I will say that's a tough gauntlet for any team, so I'll give them the mulligan. It's essentially playing the equivalent of two Maui's back to back.

I'm very excited about the Tennessee game. We've passed our tests up to this point with defensively minded teams with San Diego State and Indiana (and to a lesser degree Creighton), and we beat both SDSU and Indiana by double digits. I think sharpness and aggressiveness is key, because I have a feeling that Tennessee will come storming out the gates. If we're focused, then everything will take care of itself.

I'm still not convinced about recruiting. I think the whole IARP thing is just a smokescreen/excuse for underperforming on the recruiting trail. Yes, Boswell is great, but at the UofA we're not impressed with developmental recruits. We like guys that have high ceilings that can play NOW. Veesaar is the prototypical 'Gonzaga good' player of 7-8 years ago that would beat up on the WCC and develop over two to three years. You can't do that in the Pac. This league has 'dudes' that can play as well as top level coaches. We're used to seeing guys who are ready day one. From my perspective, I think CTL is not used to having to prove himself to recruits. He's used to showing up overseas and having foreign players marvel and awe over him when he walked in the room because of his reputation with the Zags. American players are a different animal, and they are absolutely critical for roster balance and tourney runs. Of course we can get players on campus because we're Arizona, but closing them is a different thing altogether. I'm not excited by that, we have all the tools to be consistently top 5 in the country year in and year out.

I still believe he needs help with recruiting and defense, but we'll see how everything shakes out.

[AzCatFan2]

You know I thought the same thing about Maryland - that there was no way that they were a top 20 team. I saw some UCLA fans comment that they played a really tough schedule over the past 10 days and were just gassed and mentally checked out. Apparently they played much better against Wisconsin, Tennessee and Illinois (all ranked) as evidenced by the final scores. Over the season we'll see how good they really are. But I will say that's a tough gauntlet for any team, so I'll give them the mulligan. It's essentially playing the equivalent of two Maui's back to back.

I'm very excited about the Tennessee game. We've passed our tests up to this point with defensively minded teams with San Diego State and Indiana (and to a lesser degree Creighton), and we beat both SDSU and Indiana by double digits. I think sharpness and aggressiveness is key, because I have a feeling that Tennessee will come storming out the gates. If we're focused, then everything will take care of itself.

I'm still not convinced about recruiting. I think the whole IARP thing is just a smokescreen/excuse for underperforming on the recruiting trail. Yes, Boswell is great, but at the UofA we're not impressed with developmental recruits. We like guys that have high ceilings that can play NOW. Veesaar is the prototypical 'Gonzaga good' player of 7-8 years ago that would beat up on the WCC and develop over two to three years. You can't do that in the Pac. This league has 'dudes' that can play as well as top level coaches. We're used to seeing guys who are ready day one. From my perspective, I think CTL is not used to having to prove himself to recruits. He's used to showing up overseas and having foreign players marvel and awe over him when he walked in the room because of his reputation with the Zags. American players are a different animal, and they are absolutely critical for roster balance and tourney runs. Of course we can get players on campus because we're Arizona, but closing them is a different thing altogether. I'm not excited by that, we have all the tools to be consistently top 5 in the country year in and year out.

I still believe he needs help with recruiting and defense, but we'll see how everything shakes out.

Keep winning, keeping putting players in the Association, and keep being featured like the Primetime game on Fox against Indiana, and the top recruits will not only come. They will sign. Tommy does need to prove himself, and so far, so good.

The other part of the equation that really didn't exist 7 years ago is the transfer portal. We may not have to sign top 1 and dones if we can continue to get fringe NBA talent with college experience already like Ramey, and grad transfers like Henderson. These guys are ready to play from day one when they get to Tucson, and though their upside may not be as high as top incoming freshmen, their current level is already high, and can allow for guys like Veesaar a year or two to develop. And by judging by the way Ballo has developed, Tommy and staff can do a great job developing big man talent. I'd argue that Tubelis is also a much improved player too, as he can now occasionally go to his right, and is a better defender.

Teams have 13 scholarships, and generally only play a 8 or 9 man rotation. Having some Euros at the end of the rotation and/or bench who develop and become contributors after 2 or 3 years is a nice luxury to have, especially when you're a consistent top 25 team.

As for this year, Tennessee will be the toughest defensive team we face all year. But don't think they are 100% healthy, which is too bad. Still, it's another great test, and if we can exert our will and score over 70, we win. Score over 80 and we win by double digits in my opinion.

[CardiacCats97]

International recruiting is great, and obviously important to our future. But you don’t get to scout those players as they play against future opponents like you can recruiting high school and AAU. I worry that the adjustment to the American college game is going to elongate our recruits’ ability to be difference-makers from the jump. A 5-star US player is probably more adept to win now in college basketball than a similarly talented Euro. Will that mean we have down years while talented underclassmen adjust? I obviously hope not. And I’m hopeful that the Euros playing semi-pro and on national teams can bridge that gap.

[TheCat]

Wait a minute Cardiac. UCLA had a one and done player last year whose name escapes me because he did nothing and was a 5 star. Their 5 star center this year, Bona, can't hold a candle to Henri in terms of understanding the game and being more than a dunker. Bailey another 5 star is still raw and developing but showing promise. If this is ready to go from the start then I have missed the boat. Look at Lauri and how ready he was from the get go. Euro have been playing against men 5+ years older. They are ready after they adjust to speed and physicality (same as US players). I agree Tommy needs to break through on US players but I believe he will if we continue to play well and win.

[CardiacCats97]

I agree Tommy needs to break through on US players but I believe he will if we continue to play well and win.

I wonder though if his system is all that attractive to certain players. Yes, we win. And we score a lot. But there are definitely 5 star players who are going to gravitate to places where they can dominate the ball in ways they will not be able to at Arizona.

The solution is obviously not to change the system, but maybe our recruiting expectations. We might just be the team that gets the top international talent yearly and fills in the gaps with American kids in the middle tiers who are long term projects. I just hope that doesn’t lead to us having down years while the foreign kids adjust to the college game and the American kids get their bodies and games leveled up. I don’t envy the balancing act Tommy will have to achieve to ensure that doesn’t happen.

[TheCat]

Well Gonzaga has attracted many American players of high caliber. Winning is the key and playing an attractive basketball style that fits the pro model. My contention is foreign players are more than ready to play in the US after a short adjustment.

[CardiacCats97]

Well Gonzaga has attracted many American players of high caliber. Winning is the key and playing an attractive basketball style that fits the pro model. My contention is foreign players are more than ready to play in the US after a short adjustment.

I 100% hope you’re right on all counts.

[84Cat]

[EastCoastCat]

I really don't care if they are from Mars...if they can ball, and we can be dominant year after year (and I will take the last year and 1/3) who the fuck cares.

Btw, US kids also can be very "needy."

So if we only have a bunch of hard-working euros that love each other, love our program, work their tales off and win then sign me up.

[84Cat]

These guys like LLoyd

[RawleArenas]

These guys like LLoyd

With Lloyd, it's never been an issue of liking him or supporting the culture he's instilled with the team. It's always been a matter of shoring up his weaknesses. If you watch the video, they make the same point that I did - that Lloyd needs to improve his defense in order to make real noise in March.

I'm not sure if I support that idea that if we keep winning, recruits will take notice. That's a mid-major strategy for teams like Houston or Gonzaga. There are so many things that Arizona sells on its own without Lloyd's influence that it begs the question what's really going on with recruiting. Just look at the league and what Lauri, Ayton and Benn are doing. Look at all the coaches in the league from our program: Kerr, Fraser, JT, JB, Damon, Luke and so on and so on. I can't think of any blue blood that can boast that kind of success and influence. When you combine that with Lloyd's culture and systems, we should be doing much better with recruiting.

I mentioned this before, I'm not necessarily talking about 5 star guys, but high level athletic players that give us an edge. Benn was not even in the top 100 players for 247, he was a diamond in the rough. It falls on Lloyd to find these players through the portal, recruiting and internationally to make sure this train keeps running smoothly. Will he do it? I think Lloyd is the kind of person that thrives on challenges, so we'll see.

[84Cat]

It is difficult to look on 247 and see that we have the 11th ranked class in the pac for 2023. Also Sean has the 17th best class in the nation and we aren't in the top 50. Hopefully that turns around sooner than later

[azgreg]

It is difficult to look on 247 and see that we have the 11th ranked class in the pac for 2023. Also Sean has the 17th best class in the nation and we aren't in the top 50. Hopefully that turns around sooner than later

247 site shows us 7th for the 2023 class.

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Footb ... nce=Pac-12

[RawleArenas]

Wrong sport azgreg (football), but you still proved my point. If Jedd Fisch can pull a top 3 class last year and we haven't been a football school in over 20 years, then Lloyd's gotta a lot of catching up to do.

[Frybry02]

Wrong sport azgreg (football), but you still proved my point. If Jedd Fisch can pull a top 3 class last year and we haven't been a football school in over 20 years, then Lloyd's gotta a lot of catching up to do.

The transfer portal and new transfer rules make having a top recruiting class less significant.

[TheCat]

Well we have two highly rated guys coming to our place on Saturday. Show them the atmosphere they could be enjoying in the future and that is a start. I want him to do well with US players also but I would take Henri and his skill level right now over the 5 star freshman centers I have seen. It isn't his scoring or rebounding yet but his understanding. Watch him seal off defenders when we have a drive in the middle. He does it often and consistently. His shot is coming and rebounding wont be there till strength improves.

[azgreg]

Wrong sport azgreg (football), but you still proved my point. If Jedd Fisch can pull a top 3 class last year and we haven't been a football school in over 20 years, then Lloyd's gotta a lot of catching up to do.

Oops, sorry. I was all tied up in football recruiting the other day. Carry on.

[CardiacCats97]

This team is tougher than last year’s. It does not feel like a “lose to a lower seed” tourney team.

[Postmaster]

Seems like Vessar has been playing better since he shaved his facial hair.

[Fishclamps]

Seems like Vessar has been playing better since he shaved his facial hair.

Still needs some work on those Zeus hands.

[CardiacCats97]

Courtney Ramey may be the most irreplaceable player in our lineup. Huge props to Lloyd and the coaches for pulling in a transfer of that magnitude.

[EastCoastCat]

Loved Pelle’s toughness the last few games. He’s becoming more and more like that Swiss Army knife we’ve been missing since DT left.

Just hoping his 3 point shooting returns to his old form - just seems to be a little too strong on each attempt.

[Alieberman]

We lost 3 guys to the NBA and are not a worse team

Unreal

[ChooChooCat]

Courtney Ramey may be the most irreplaceable player in our lineup. Huge props to Lloyd and the coaches for pulling in a transfer of that magnitude.

It wouldn't have happened if Dalen stayed, but it was a done deal the second he announced.

[CardiacCats97]

Courtney Ramey may be the most irreplaceable player in our lineup. Huge props to Lloyd and the coaches for pulling in a transfer of that magnitude.

It wouldn't have happened if Dalen stayed, but it was a done deal the second he announced.

I’m extremely thankful we had that option. The dude is a walking bucket, a rock-solid defender, and the senior leader we need when times get tough.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Ramey and Kriisa didn't take any of Tennessee's shit at the end, whether it was "hold me back" Ziegler's trip, his fake punch at Henderson, whatever their bench was claiming about the refs, or anything else. Yeah, Kriisa's too wild and wooly, and his T didn't help anything (although I think that was a make-up to Barnes for Head Lock Plavsic's earlier T and consisted of referee overreach on a triviality,) but I like how the team didn't put up with anything face-to-face. Lloyd didn't like the mid-air tear-down of Larsson, but he didn't talk about it in the post-game, and hopefully he wouldn't have if he'd lost. It was Barnes who played that card. He can say Plavsic's actions are excessive, but then he doesn't have to give him minutes, does he? It reminds me of Dennis Erickson and his perplexed cow eye look when asked about his football thugs at Miami, Oregon St, and ASU. If your team consistently plays and acts a certain way, it's the coach. This was a good game for us, not just for the power rating bump, but to see more of what the real basketball world looks like before we have to disappear into a steady diet of the Pac-12's screwy version for the next couple of months before emerging back out into the NCAAs in March.

[RawleArenas]

I don't care what anybody says, after basketball games you never fight Whataburger employees for any reason. Too much liability.

Seriously, Rick Barnes needs to win coach of the year every single year for convincing his players to wear those ridiculous uniforms.

[azgreg]

If there's a more whiney and irrelevant fan base than Tennessee's I haven't seen them.

[CardiacCats97]

If there's a more whiney and irrelevant fan base than Tennessee's I haven't seen them.

You do know that the Illini exist, don’t you?

[Alieberman]

If there's a more whiney and irrelevant fan base than Tennessee's I haven't seen them.

You do know that the Illini exist, don’t you?

I don't know about overall fanbase- but there are a lot of international students at the U of Illinois.

[dmjcat]

[Beachcat97]

Already having deja vu from last season. Started the year underrated and overlooked. A month and change into the season, and we’re solidly in the top 10 with multiple signature wins.

And incredibly, as others have noted, we may actually be *better* this season. Tommy freaking Lloyd.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Just a nit...I believe he capitalizes the F.

[RondaeShimmy]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketb ... /zqr379/_/

[AzCatFan2]

https://www.reddit.com/r/CollegeBasketb ... /zqr379/_/

Maybe the best analysis of Tommy's offensive philosophy I've read. We do such a great job of spacing the floor and getting our bigs the ball either in very deep positions, or in space where Zu can easily beat his man off the dribble. Very few college players are as big as Ballo, and very few bigs are as quick and athletic as Zu. And Tommy's plan is a joy to watch, and as the guy says, a nightmare for opposing teams to defend.

[84Cat]

Flash sale for tonight's & Thursday's game. Remember that tonight's game is an early one, 6:30

https://offer.fevo.com/arizona-men-s-ba ... 6b84bb5%2F

[84Cat]

[TheCat]

Oregon will not miss the tourney.....

[ZagCatFan]

ZAGS JUST BROKE YOUR 71 game home wining streak!

Tommy was part of it!

[ASUHATER!]

ZAGS JUST BROKE YOUR 71 game home wining streak!

Tommy was part of it!

Against far inferior competition at home

[dmjcat]

[ZagCatFan]

ZAGS JUST BROKE YOUR 71 game home wining streak!

Tommy was part of it!

Against far inferior competition at home

And yet you are happy hiring OUR assistant coach!

[AZCatGirl]

Oregon will not miss the tourney.....

They're not exactly helping themselves out right now...