2023-2024 Arizona Basketball

[CalStateTempe]

The nightmare and arrogance of DWWD….ugh.

[Djcat]

Credit is due, and must be given to Clemson...

.

Agree with the entire sentiment. Happening over and over against been super frustrating. Players even said after games they didn’t take it as seriously because of quality of opponents.

I do have to say which basketball gods did Clemson offered their first borns to??? I watched the Baylor game and they had good open 3s as well but it just won’t drop. Clemson fans are crowing about top 3 pointers D but really they have been lucky twice in a row.

[pc in NM]

I echo winger’s statement. The collapse and uncontested baskets were ridiculous, and Lloyd needs to sort this crap out

Don't worry about that!! CTL will NOT lose two consecutive games in this tournament!!

[WildcatStunner]

I echo winger’s statement. The collapse and uncontested baskets were ridiculous, and Lloyd needs to sort this crap out

Don't worry about that!! CTL will NOT lose two consecutive games in this tournament!!

Not suggesting firing him. But the truth of the matter is that he has underperformed 3 consecutive years in the tourney and troubling trends throughout the season are never addressed

So roll your eyes all you want bud, but not everyone is going to fawn over shortcomings

[pc in NM]

I echo winger’s statement. The collapse and uncontested baskets were ridiculous, and Lloyd needs to sort this crap out

Don't worry about that!! CTL will NOT lose two consecutive games in this tournament!!

Not suggesting firing him. But the truth of the matter is that he has underperformed 3 consecutive years in the tourney and troubling trends throughout the season are never addressed

So roll your eyes all you want bud, but not everyone is going to fawn over shortcomings

"Shortcomings"??

IMNSHO, which I felt increasingly strongly since late season losses to Wazzu (a good, but nowhere near a "top" team), UCLA (a mediocre, disorganized team), and Oregon (an average team, at best), the Sweet 16 was just about the ceiling for this team. Tell me I'm wrong about that!!

And, honestly, I'm pretty sure that everyone here had that nagging "inner voice" that was muttering the same thing!\

But yes, having your starters shoot 8.6% (2-23) from three was really a poor strategic choice for CTL, and he MUST he held accountable!!!

[Djcat]

Even when we went up by 1 I did have the nagging feeling we are still toast. Good D was out of the window and we keep letting them score easy baskets. Like Love said post game, Tommy wasn’t on the floor they were

[dmjcat]

I want to congratulate CTL and the AZ Wildcats for an excellent season.

CTL was able to snag 3 good players out of the portal and cobble together a good, but not great team.

The UA beat Duke at Cameron, and notched wins against Alabama, Michigan State and Wisconsin.

The UA swept UCLA.

The UA swept asu, including hanging the worst loss in the history of the series on the Sun Gerbils

The UA won the last PAC12 title.

The UA avoided the early round upset and made it to the Sweet 16.

All in all, a very good year with nothing to be ashamed about.

For the posters who live and die with the results of the NCAA tournament I suspect that you will almost never be happy. The tournament is basically a crap shoot. Its not the NBA where one plays a best of 7 series.........its one and done. For that reason alone, many of the best teams usually don't make it to the Final Four or even the elite eight. 68 teams enter the tournament, and only 1 fanbase ends up happy. The other 67 spend the offseason grumbling about poor coaching, soft players and biased officiating.............its a Very Cruel Tournament. I can only suggest that you spend more time celebrating the successes of the regular season.

[Winger]

But yes, having your starters shoot 8.6% (2-23) from three was really a poor strategic choice for CTL, and he MUST he held accountable!!!

I had the same Arizona-nag as you did but that actually is a poor strategic choice.

Arizona was a team that took few 3-pointers this season. About 1 in 3 shot attempts which was 281st nationally.

Despite being incredibly cold from 3, Lloyd’s Free Love offense yesterday allowed for 42% of its shot attempts to come from behind the 3-point line.

In the first 5 minutes, which went a long way toward setting the tone of the game, 6 of Arizona’s 7 initial shot attempts were 3s.

Worse, the season-long defensive gameplan to beat Arizona was in large part: force the Cats to take 3s and hope they miss.

Which is what Clemson did yesterday.

[WildcatStunner]

I echo winger’s statement. The collapse and uncontested baskets were ridiculous, and Lloyd needs to sort this crap out

Don't worry about that!! CTL will NOT lose two consecutive games in this tournament!!

Not suggesting firing him. But the truth of the matter is that he has underperformed 3 consecutive years in the tourney and troubling trends throughout the season are never addressed

So roll your eyes all you want bud, but not everyone is going to fawn over shortcomings

"Shortcomings"??

IMNSHO, which I felt increasingly strongly since late season losses to Wazzu (a good, but nowhere near a "top" team), UCLA (a mediocre, disorganized team), and Oregon (an average team, at best), the Sweet 16 was just about the ceiling for this team. Tell me I'm wrong about that!!

And, honestly, I'm pretty sure that everyone here had that nagging "inner voice" that was muttering the same thing!\

But yes, having your starters shoot 8.6% (2-23) from three was really a poor strategic choice for CTL, and he MUST he held accountable!!!

Hahaha, you make me laugh. Thanks for that! Carry on PC! Keep doing what you’re doing, maybe the admins can give you a fan police tag!

[PHXCATS]

If a few 3s that normally go in go in yesterday then UA wins by a few possessions

Bad games happen. That is why the ncaa tournament is stupid

[UAEebs86]

IMNSHO, which I felt increasingly strongly since late season losses to Wazzu (a good, but nowhere near a "top" team), UCLA (a mediocre, disorganized team), and Oregon (an average team, at best), the Sweet 16 was just about the ceiling for this team. Tell me I'm wrong about that!!

You're wrong about that. Arizona did not lose to UCLA this year.

[pc in NM]

But yes, having your starters shoot 8.6% (2-23) from three was really a poor strategic choice for CTL, and he MUST he held accountable!!!

I had the same Arizona-nag as you did but that actually is a poor strategic choice.

Arizona was a team that took few 3-pointers this season. About 1 in 3 shot attempts which was 281st nationally.

Despite being incredibly cold from 3, Lloyd’s Free Love offense yesterday allowed for 42% of its shot attempts to come from behind the 3-point line.

In the first 5 minutes, which went a long way toward setting the tone of the game, 6 of Arizona’s 7 initial shot attempts were 3s.

Worse, the season-long defensive gameplan to beat Arizona was in large part: force the Cats to take 3s and hope they miss.

Which is what Clemson did yesterday.

"force the Cats to take 3s and hope they miss" - I think that is a gross oversimplification of their actuall defensive strategy.

More like "force them to take contested perimeter shots"

Some of Arizona's missed threes were, in fact, forced/contested shots by Caleb. I remind you, those have become a staple of almost every game this season. A couple of Boz's were rushed, but wide open.

Most of Arizona's missed threes were wide open shots that we'd be happy to take in almost any situation - again, all season.

Honestly, would any coach welcome open, uncontested, catch-and-shoot threes from Love, Boswell, Larson and Johnson? What percentage of those would you expect to make in any random game? Certainly, without any doubt, ANYONE would expect better than 2-23!!!

[pc in NM]

IMNSHO, which I felt increasingly strongly since late season losses to Wazzu (a good, but nowhere near a "top" team), UCLA (a mediocre, disorganized team), and Oregon (an average team, at best), the Sweet 16 was just about the ceiling for this team. Tell me I'm wrong about that!!

You're wrong about that. Arizona did not lose to UCLA this year.

My apologies, I meant "USC (a mediocre disorganized team)"

Same message and conclusion, however!

[Djcat]

Regular season performance should set a team up for a good run in the tourney. Like UConn right now.

Or be UConn in 2011, like our Cats in 97.

Hard to say. I did enjoy the regular season wins the last three seasons. Media and media fans of other schools are crowing about our failure to advance deeper though….and they have a point.

Charles Barkley must be sick of picking us to make the final 4 three years in a row lol

[MrKyle]

This year definitely had its up and downs; but overall I think it was a success. We came into the season with hopes we'd be a top 20-25 team and weren't sure how the transfers would fill the gap of those who left.

I think CTL did a good job of putting together a team that had a high ceiling and ability to win against almost anyone. The melt downs and games where we couldn't execute were frustrating no doubt, and I'm not sure whether to pin that on CTL, lack of a dominant PG, or what.

Clemson looked OK vs us last night, they had some good runs and hit some timely shots; but IMO we beat ourselves with missing wide open 3's, taking poor 3's, giving them unforced turnovers, stopping drives to the basket when we were in double bonus, etc.

[CatsbyAZ]

Woke up feeling a lot better about yesterday's exit shorting another long awaited chance at advancing to a Final Four.

First, as for the loss—
Things went more right for Arizona than we're giving credit. For one, we fight back into the game after playing from behind all first half. One point of strategy that gave us long stretches of momentum was attacking Hall inside, racking up his fouls, and sending him to the bench. This was a big blow on both ends for Clemson, because without his inside presence our defense could focus on limiting Clemson's three point shooting. Then Hall comes back in the game, we don't attack him, even with his risk to foul out, Clemson gets more open looks beyond the perimeter, and worse, Hall proceeds to kill us with screen slips late.

Our offense late in the game solely relying on threes that weren't falling killed us. Despite otherwise good play, Ballo missing NINE FTs killed us. And most of all, Boswell and Love turning into nonfactors killed us.

As for how I'm processing all this—
Over on the football boards a number of posters approach to rooting for football is to celebrate whenever we get a bowl - any bowl. Especially if the Cats win. That's what the basketball program has become for me. I celebrate Sweet Sixteen appearances as though they are the equivalent Bowl bid, and if we win it's on the the Elite Eight. I've given up on Final Fours at this point, treating it with the same limits our Football program has in making a Rose Bowl.

And I don't feel too terribly bad about it because when you can't make a Final Four, it's still very good to consistently make Sweet Sixteens. That pretty much makes Arizona basketball Purdue and Creighton (both still alive in this year's tournament). Conference championships and numerous appearances into the Tournament's 2nd weekend without a Final Four appearance in how many years?

[RawleArenas]

I see your point but I beg to disagree. First time head coach Jedd Fisch assembled the right staff, recruited the right players and game planned his way into a bowl in his third year in what is the equivalent of the elite eight in football. We beat a blue blood team in a major bowl by two touchdowns at a school where football is not a priority.

So this past year has proven that it can be done and be done relatively quickly. We're just lacking the right leadership.

[azcat49]

I am not ready to give up on Lloyd as I think his ceiling is very high. My goodness, it’s his third year.

I am ready for some staff turnover. No clue what Robinson brings that can’t be replaced. The former Suns guy doesn’t recruit and I haven’t seen many game plans where I just marvel at that plan.

I am tired of players who are now paid by us fans flaming out in March. They want to get paid then they deserve the public criticism and understand it comes with the check. Ok with Love, Larsson and Boswell checking out if they want to.

[Beachcat97]

This will be interesting: which was the best AZ backcourt to not make a Final Four? Not necessarily the best overall team, just the best backcourt.

[Winger]

But yes, having your starters shoot 8.6% (2-23) from three was really a poor strategic choice for CTL, and he MUST he held accountable!!!

I had the same Arizona-nag as you did but that actually is a poor strategic choice.

Arizona was a team that took few 3-pointers this season. About 1 in 3 shot attempts which was 281st nationally.

Despite being incredibly cold from 3, Lloyd’s Free Love offense yesterday allowed for 42% of its shot attempts to come from behind the 3-point line.

In the first 5 minutes, which went a long way toward setting the tone of the game, 6 of Arizona’s 7 initial shot attempts were 3s.

Worse, the season-long defensive gameplan to beat Arizona was in large part: force the Cats to take 3s and hope they miss.

Which is what Clemson did yesterday.

"force the Cats to take 3s and hope they miss" - I think that is a gross oversimplification of their actuall defensive strategy.

More like "force them to take contested perimeter shots"

Some of Arizona's missed threes were, in fact, forced/contested shots by Caleb. I remind you, those have become a staple of almost every game this season. A couple of Boz's were rushed, but wide open.

Most of Arizona's missed threes were wide open shots that we'd be happy to take in almost any situation - again, all season.

Honestly, would any coach welcome open, uncontested, catch-and-shoot threes from Love, Boswell, Larson and Johnson? What percentage of those would you expect to make in any random game? Certainly, without any doubt, ANYONE would expect better than 2-23!!!

Arizona was 5-28 yesterday from 3. I’d bet you (hypothetically) $1000 that if I asked Lloyd privately about the 3s yesterday he’d say Arizona took too many. I’d bet you another $1000 Brownell would agree, and smile, because that is what he wanted Arizona to do.

Interior scoring both travels in the NCAA tournament (3 point shooting does not) and correlates with advancing. Ballo is a problem (because he is a TO at the FT line) but, in addition to his points and 66% 2FG shooting, he puts fouls on the opposition; which would have been big wrt Hall last night and is something that I 100% guarantee you was a goal of Lloyd’s. Any 3 taken by Johnson is a bad shot, and especially in comparison to a 2FGA (he shoots 60% from 2), there is a good reason he took < 1 three a game at SDSU. One of Lloyd’s goals for Love this season was to settle for 3s less and drive more. Maybe you’ll take a wide open 3 from Larsson but only from his spot (high left), which Clemson pushed him away from. For Boswell as well you’d take that but not after he has missed a bunch in a row, confirming for you that it was going to be one of those nights.

I understand what you are saying completely. But Arizona took too many 3s last night, especially to start and end the game, and that both is not a part of its offense and played right in to the Clemson game plan.

Some of what has been posted gets to why Arizona’s recipe this season wasn’t good enough, and it is why, as sucky as it feels to say, I believe that Lloyd needs to nut up and move on from Ballo, Love, Larsson, and Boswell.

And he is going to need to bring in a legit 4 (or 2) for next season. And that is giving the benefit of the doubt to Krivas which I am not sure is deserved.

I believe trust in Lloyd is deserved but he has at least as much work to do to rebuild this roster as he had this past off season.

[RawleArenas]

Beachcat, I'm glad you asked. I've thought about this before, and I'm surprised no one has mentioned this.

The best backcourt we had that didn't reach a FF was the 2020-2021 team. I also think that team was probably the most complete team that we've had since the 2001 team. You had Akinjo and Terrell Brown. That team never a got a chance to make a run in the tournament because of Robbins.

Akinjo was first team Pac 12 and the following year was a third team All American. Terrell Brown lead the Pac 12 in scoring the following year. Both players didn't rely on three point shooting, in fact, Terrell Brown manufactured pretty much all of his points through drives and mid range shooting. They were both fearless and quite skilled. That team also had Tubelis, Mathurin, Terry and Koloko. If that team was in Tommy's system, they would have annihilated the field.

You had everything you needed. Rim protection (Koloko), solid frontcourt play (Jordan Brown, Sixth Man of the Year) Tubelis (future All American) Daniel Batcho (versatile defender). Kriisa was the third string point guard which was his rightful position. You also had a plus defender in Jemarl Baker. I'm telling you, that team under Tommy's tutelage would have been Final Four bound at the minimum. That squad gave you everything you needed in terms of depth, NBA talent, and versatility. People forget about them because of the deliberate sabotage by Senor Robbins.

[UAEebs86]

This will be interesting: which was the best AZ backcourt to not make a Final Four? Not necessarily the best overall team, just the best backcourt.

TJ and Nick

[Alieberman]

This will be interesting: which was the best AZ backcourt to not make a Final Four? Not necessarily the best overall team, just the best backcourt.

TJ and Nick

This and it’s not even close

[Merkin]

Ballo is a problem (because he is a TO at the FT line) but, in addition to his points and 66% 2FG shooting, he puts fouls on the opposition; which would have been big wrt Hall last night and is something that I 100% guarantee you was a goal of Lloyd’s.

The TV analyst made a similar point. He said to keep getting the ball to Ballo, even if it won't get you any points, but you want to build up fouls on Clemson to get them into the bonus, where Larsson, Love and Boswell will get points on 1 and 1's.

[RawleArenas]

Ballo is a problem (because he is a TO at the FT line) but, in addition to his points and 66% 2FG shooting, he puts fouls on the opposition; which would have been big wrt Hall last night and is something that I 100% guarantee you was a goal of Lloyd’s.

The TV analyst made a similar point. He said to keep getting the ball to Ballo, even if it won't get you any points, but you want to build up fouls on Clemson to get them into the bonus, where Larsson, Love and Boswell will get points on 1 and 1's.

Merk, that requires game planning and in-game adjustments.

[Beachcat97]

This will be interesting: which was the best AZ backcourt to not make a Final Four? Not necessarily the best overall team, just the best backcourt.

TJ and Nick

Better than our defending championship team in ‘98? Backcourt was Simon, Bibby, Terry and Dickerson.

[Alieberman]

Those guys won the Natty! We’re talking guys that never made a final 4

[84Cat]

This will be interesting: which was the best AZ backcourt to not make a Final Four? Not necessarily the best overall team, just the best backcourt.

TJ and Nick

Better than our defending championship team in ‘98? Backcourt was Simon, Bibby, Terry and Dickerson.

No but they made the ff in 97

[KaibabKat]

This team did not have just a single bad game. This team had a post season collapse. Here are the "Bird" scores for the eight rotation players for all five post season games (2 Pac-12 plus 3 NCAA tournament):

27.6 Oumar Ballo (one of two players on the team to match his season long score)
18.7 Jaden Bradley (an apparent rising star)
........+/- 14.0 = "average" D1 player.......
12.7 Keshad Johnson
11.5 K.J. Lewis
11.3 Motiejus Krivas
10.9 Pelle Larsson
8.3 Caleb Love
7.5 Kylan Boswell

This team WAS NOT built for post season play and/or they were completely burned out by the time the regular season was over. To emulate Bill Walton - this may have been the worst exhibition of post season guard play in the history of the universe. It is the absolute worse season ending five game stretch, for a team that was once ranked #1, that I can remember.

[Djcat]

“Arizona has a higher standard,” Wildcats center Oumar Ballo said after the 77-72 loss, in a locker room where most sets of eyes were fixed on the floor. “If you don’t make it to the Final Four, if you don’t win the (championship), it’s not going to be a successful year. Some programs would settle for the Sweet 16. But we have higher standards. This was not a failure, by any means. But it was just not a success, either.”

At least some of our players don’t want to settle for S16 and a regular season PAC title.

https://apple.news/AdB9JHqOYRnOKbol4cKXT2A

[TheCatInTheHat]

Just a couple of notes. When a zone is extended to the three point line, it basically isn't a zone anymore, and you need to drive to a mid-range shot before the rotation can draw a charge. Considering how often we see it, that should be bread-and-butter for us. And about two rushed outside shots in a row should earn you a seat on the bench. Tommy Lloyd is a young coach, and he still has growth areas. When the opposing coach calls a timeout for an inbounds under the basket and gets a slam, you've been out-coached. Even in high school we ran a zone there. In this era of college hoops, it'll be interesting to see what our personnel looks like next season. No doubt we'll have loads of talent and be crowd-pleasing, but the annual turnover that limits some in-depth coaching can be pretty frustrating.

[Winger]

When the opposing coach calls a timeout for an inbounds under the basket and gets a slam, you've been out-coached.

I remember 3 bunnies directly off in bounds plays. After the third one I said allowed “Lloyd is getting worked” or “that is lousy coaching” or something like that.

Kaibab - thanks for those numbers. They surprised me. Especially since I thought this rotation was much more built for the NCAA tournament than Lloyd’s prior 2. I don’t know what the issue was but it definitely wasn’t physical fatigue nor injury related wrt the NCAA tournament. Arizona was as close to fully healthy and well-rested prior to LBSU as you can be. We finished Saturday’s game at about 1:00 Tucson time and were a 2 hour chartered flight away. Clemson on the other hand flew back east on late Sunday arriving at like 3 am, stayed home for about 12 hours, and then boarded a flight back out to LA.

[Merkin]

“Arizona has a higher standard,” Wildcats center Oumar Ballo said after the 77-72 loss, in a locker room where most sets of eyes were fixed on the floor. “If you don’t make it to the Final Four, if you don’t win the (championship), it’s not going to be a successful year. Some programs would settle for the Sweet 16. But we have higher standards. This was not a failure, by any means. But it was just not a success, either.”

At least some of our players don’t want to settle for S16 and a regular season PAC title.

https://apple.news/AdB9JHqOYRnOKbol4cKXT2A

At least Ballo gets it. I always think about Kriisa's comment where he said that Euro players don't care about the NCAA tourney, they are just playing for a professional contract. I wonder if that's what happened to Larsson to have his worst game ever? I really thought Pelle was hungover or whatever.

Too bad Ballo won't come back for another season to work on his game. He just played so much higher and stronger this season. Just don't expect Love or Larsson to get any better.

[84Cat]

“Arizona has a higher standard,” Wildcats center Oumar Ballo said after the 77-72 loss, in a locker room where most sets of eyes were fixed on the floor. “If you don’t make it to the Final Four, if you don’t win the (championship), it’s not going to be a successful year. Some programs would settle for the Sweet 16. But we have higher standards. This was not a failure, by any means. But it was just not a success, either.”

At least some of our players don’t want to settle for S16 and a regular season PAC title.

https://apple.news/AdB9JHqOYRnOKbol4cKXT2A

At least Ballo gets it. I always think about Kriisa's comment where he said that Euro players don't care about the NCAA tourney, they are just playing for a professional contract. I wonder if that's what happened to Larsson to have his worst game ever? I really thought Pelle was hungover or whatever.

Too bad Ballo won't come back for another season to work on his game. He just played so much higher and stronger this season. Just don't expect Love or Larsson to get any better.

Pelle said in one of the pressors that everyone longs to play in March madness so I think Pelle understands what MM means

[KaibabKat]

Here are the final Hollinger Player Efficiency Ratings (PER) for the entire team for the 36 game 2023-2024 season (starters in bold):

27.2 Oumar Ballo
21.6 Motiejus Krivas
20.2 Caleb Love
19,8 Keshad Johnson
19.8 Paulius Murauskas
18.5 Pelle larsson
17.9 Filip Borovicanin
16.9 K.J. Lewis
16.7 Grant Weitman
15.2 Jaden Bradley
15.0 Conrad Martinez (15.0 is, by definition, the score for the "average" D1 player - half are above, half are below)
14.1 Kylan Boswell
7.6 Luke Champion
3.4 Will Menaugh

The numbers ar what they are- feel free to draw your own conclusions.

[MrKyle]

“Arizona has a higher standard,” Wildcats center Oumar Ballo said after the 77-72 loss, in a locker room where most sets of eyes were fixed on the floor. “If you don’t make it to the Final Four, if you don’t win the (championship), it’s not going to be a successful year. Some programs would settle for the Sweet 16. But we have higher standards. This was not a failure, by any means. But it was just not a success, either.”

At least some of our players don’t want to settle for S16 and a regular season PAC title.

https://apple.news/AdB9JHqOYRnOKbol4cKXT2A

At least Ballo gets it. I always think about Kriisa's comment where he said that Euro players don't care about the NCAA tourney, they are just playing for a professional contract. I wonder if that's what happened to Larsson to have his worst game ever? I really thought Pelle was hungover or whatever.

Too bad Ballo won't come back for another season to work on his game. He just played so much higher and stronger this season. Just don't expect Love or Larsson to get any better.

Pelle said in one of the pressors that everyone longs to play in March madness so I think Pelle understands what MM means

Have to wonder if Pelle just wore down as season went on - he took a lot of abuse trying to draw charges etc. Seemed to me like 3/4 of the way through regular season (maybe a bit later) he started missing free throws, layups, open 3s that he would typically be good for.

[PHXCATS]

These players are far more hurt than they say or try to show

Grace should be given to them

[Beachcat97]

Those guys won the Natty! We’re talking guys that never made a final 4

My bad. I should've been more specific.

And you're right, the '98 team wouldn't work with what I laid out.

[PHXCATS]

I know that I am disappointed in the result but not the team or any player or coach

I have absolute confidence in Lloyd to build an even better team next year. This year had it all just had a cold night. Next year will be even better and I am happy to support them to do it

[Beachcat97]

Lloyd has been a head coach for three years. For comparison, here's what notable coaches did in their first three years:

Lute Olson (no NCAA tourney till 6th year)
Izzo (NIT, NIT, S16)
Wright (no postseason till 5th year at Hofstra; first three years at Nova, all NIT)
Coach K (at Duke: NIT, no postseason, no postseason)
D. Hurley (didn't reach NCAA tourney till his 7th year)
Self (no NCAA tourney till his 6th year)
Pitino (no NCAA tourney till his 6th year)
Sean Miller (no postseason, NCAA tourney first round, NCAA second round)
Painter (NCAA first round, no postseason, NCAA second round)
Few (S16, S16, NCAA first round)

[Merkin]

Not really a fair comparison, Lloyd had 3 NBA players on the roster when he started. I was a student during the Snowden>Lindsay>Olson transition and you have not seen a player revolt like that, outside of Mackovic anyway.

[Beachcat97]

Not really a fair comparison, Lloyd had 3 NBA players on the roster when he started. I was a student during the Snowden>Lindsay>Olson transition and you have not seen a player revolt like that, outside of Mackovic anyway.

Does that mean, then, Merk, that you think Lloyd is underachieving?

Because while it's true that he came into a situation that was very different from, say, Duke in the early 1980s, he still had to figure things out quickly and get that Mathurin/Terry/Koloko team to gel and thrive, which he did.

Every year, Kentucky and Duke have several NBA players on their roster, and they often fail to reach the tournament's second weekend. This is to say: great rosters do not guarantee great tourney runs. The coach has to work with things and get the team to reach their potential, as you know. Sometimes it happens; sometimes it doesn't.

Arizona has rarely had a hard time drawing talent. Since the late 90s, we've had a strong track record of bringing in 5 and 4 star players, and I don't think that will ever change. The question Lloyd now has to work on is, how do you engineer momentum in March? How do you coach and prepare the team in a way that yields consistent high-level play game after game? We didn't see that in this tournament, even in our wins.

[pc in NM]

Not really a fair comparison, Lloyd had 3 NBA players on the roster when he started. I was a student during the Snowden>Lindsay>Olson transition and you have not seen a player revolt like that, outside of Mackovic anyway.

Does that mean, then, Merk, that you think Lloyd is underachieving?

Because while it's true that he came into a situation that was very different from, say, Duke in the early 1980s, he still had to figure things out quickly and get that Mathurin/Terry/Koloko team to gel and thrive, which he did.

Every year, Kentucky and Duke have several NBA players on their roster, and they often fail to reach the tournament's second weekend. This is to say: great rosters do not guarantee great tourney runs. The coach has to work with things and get the team to reach their potential, as you know. Sometimes it happens; sometimes it doesn't.

Arizona has rarely had a hard time drawing talent. Since the late 90s, we've had a strong track record of bringing in 5 and 4 star players, and I don't think that will ever change. The question Lloyd now has to work on is, how do you engineer momentum in March? How do you coach and prepare the team in a way that yields consistent high-level play game after game? We didn't see that in this tournament, even in our wins.

1) We didn't see that in the 1997 tournament - very inconsistent performances in three of those 6 victories!

2) Here's a thought experiment for anyone: who would have gotten more out of the 21-22 team (CSM's players) - CSM or CTL?

I go with CTL - because I think his style of play gets more out of today's talent, not to mention being a lot more enjoyable to watch)!

And, I think CSM's adjustments after his year off support my contention!

[Beachcat97]

Lloyd is going to improve as a coach. And he's going to get deeper in the tournament. It's hard to be patient when our Final Four dry spell is going on (gasp!) a quarter century, but we have to be patient.

[Djcat]

Be interesting how he formulates next season’s squad. We have quite the collection of US based High school recruits. But they are all freshmen and we know how that can play out

[Merkin]

Does that mean, then, Merk, that you think Lloyd is underachieving?

Just to be clear, I am quite happy with CTL. He is still learning, after all.

He just needs an XO guy who can setup plays outside of

1. Get the ball the Ballo
2. If Ballo is covered chuck up a 3.

Along with someone who isn't aw shucks who can yell at the players with intensity, similar to what KO did for Lute.

Lloyd wasn't the XO guy at Gonzaga, and neither is Murph at Arizona.

Wasn't Pasternick Miller's XO guy?

Lloyd is going to improve as a coach. And he's going to get deeper in the tournament. It's hard to be patient when our Final Four dry spell is going on (gasp!) a quarter century, but we have to be patient.

I might be dead in 25 years! I have already given up on UA football getting a conference championship.

[azgreg]

Lloyd is going to improve as a coach. And he's going to get deeper in the tournament. It's hard to be patient when our Final Four dry spell is going on (gasp!) a quarter century, but we have to be patient.

This.

[Djcat]

Lloyd is going to improve as a coach. And he's going to get deeper in the tournament. It's hard to be patient when our Final Four dry spell is going on (gasp!) a quarter century, but we have to be patient.

This.

We said this about the Rose Bowl. And here we are

[PHXCATS]

2 more 3s go in and UA wins comfortably

That is the story. Nothing else

[TheCat]

I echo winger’s statement. The collapse and uncontested baskets were ridiculous, and Lloyd needs to sort this crap out

Don't worry about that!! CTL will NOT lose two consecutive games in this tournament!!

Not suggesting firing him. But the truth of the matter is that he has underperformed 3 consecutive years in the tourney and troubling trends throughout the season are never addressed

So roll your eyes all you want bud, but not everyone is going to fawn over shortcomings

"Shortcomings"??

IMNSHO, which I felt increasingly strongly since late season losses to Wazzu (a good, but nowhere near a "top" team), UCLA (a mediocre, disorganized team), and Oregon (an average team, at best), the Sweet 16 was just about the ceiling for this team. Tell me I'm wrong about that!!

And, honestly, I'm pretty sure that everyone here had that nagging "inner voice" that was muttering the same thing!\

But yes, having your starters shoot 8.6% (2-23) from three was really a poor strategic choice for CTL, and he MUST he held accountable!!!

Not sure what the reference to UCLA is. Oregon was not an average team when healthy (about 5 games total and that is if you exclude Bittle).CTL has gone to the sweet 16 2 out of the last 3 years. Who is better (Houston and Gonzaga). I think it is time to really understand how difficult it is to advance in this tournament. Hell we haven't been to a final 4 in 23 years. Illinois has not been to an Elite 8 in 19 years.