Bear Down Wildcats

Catstatic wrote:Ristic played 3 minutes. 3. Since I did not get to see the game (thankfully!!), I am assuming he got hurt. If not, and knowing there is no one on ASU that would have a chance to stop him in the low post, I am simply speechless. Pitts got 11 minutes. Wow. Just, wow.

Go Cats!!

Not defending Tarc's putrid play yesterday at all but I think Ristic had quick fouls and some bad D as well.

Lets just hope, a light bulb can cut on for Tarc. Sounds like the mood around him is "he is what he is" at this point.

I'll never forget that look of disgust and realization TJ had, when Tarc couldn't catch a point blank pass.

Quick Question:

If Zeus played for Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, Ohio state, Arizona State, San Diego State...

Do you think he would be a sure fire lotto pick and force in the nation?

Catstatic wrote:Ristic played 3 minutes. 3. Since I did not get to see the game (thankfully!!), I am assuming he got hurt. If not, and knowing there is no one on ASU that would have a chance to stop him in the low post, I am simply speechless. Pitts got 11 minutes. Wow. Just, wow.

Go Cats!!

You didn't watch the game. Neither of those guys deserved a minute more than they got. TJ , RHJ and Stanley and first half York were the only guys who got off the bus. Stanleys stat line was not economic at all and he had several lapses on the defensive end, but a lot of that bad shooting night was attributed to uneven officiating. He at least knew it was a rival game and looked like he cared about winning.

NETSFAN4HASSAN wrote:
Not defending Tarc's putrid play yesterday at all but I think Ristic had quick fouls and some bad D as well.

That Scummie walked before one of the fouls on Dusan. Horrible call.

Can someone make a gif of Tarc's gaffs yesterday? It was literally every time he touched the ball. I couldn't help but laugh at how bad his hands were. The worst part, as a fan, is watching him have absolutely no reaction after he fumbles the ball out of bounds or somehow can't figure out how to dunk the ball into the hoop with no one around him.

Bosy Billups wrote:Quick Question:

If Zeus played for Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UCLA, Ohio state, Arizona State, San Diego State...

Do you think he would be a sure fire lotto pick and force in the nation?

No. If you can't catch it doesn't matter where you play.

etank34 wrote:Can someone make a gif of Tarc's gaffs yesterday? It was literally every time he touched the ball. I couldn't help but laugh at how bad his hands were. The worst part, as a fan, is watching him have absolutely no reaction after he fumbles the ball out of bounds or somehow can't figure out how to dunk the ball into the hoop with no one around him.

What do you mean? You didn't see him laugh at how bad his hands were?

rgdeuce wrote:

Catstatic wrote:Ristic played 3 minutes. 3. Since I did not get to see the game (thankfully!!), I am assuming he got hurt. If not, and knowing there is no one on ASU that would have a chance to stop him in the low post, I am simply speechless. Pitts got 11 minutes. Wow. Just, wow.

Go Cats!!

You didn't watch the game. Neither of those guys deserved a minute more than they got. TJ , RHJ and Stanley and first half York were the only guys who got off the bus. Stanleys stat line was not economic at all and he had several lapses on the defensive end, but a lot of that bad shooting night was attributed to uneven officiating. He at least knew it was a rival game and looked like he cared about winning.

From the sounds of it, Zeus and Ashley got way more minutes than they deserved.

I have finally given up on this issue, as it is the way Miller is. The worst place to be on this team is a back-up big. If you start, you can screw up as much as you want and you will still play 30 minutes a game. If you are a back-up big (from our "tiny" team with KNat and Tree on the bench, to Chol having a great game and not getting on the floor the next game, to Grant hardly getting off the bench at all, to Victor seeing the writing on the wall, to Korcheck turning games around like he did a few games ago and still being absolutely frozen out on the bench, to Ristic who is by far our best low post option getting 3 minutes! In a game that Zeus seems to be stinking up the place? 3! That should help Dusan relax and play his best the next game, don't you think? 3!), you either get used to not playing or fill out your transfer papers. Your minutes will be spotty at best, non-existent at worst.

Miller does everything, and I mean everything else right in my book. Burying bigs on the bench is the most confusing, inexplicable and frustrating thing he does. His teams play the absolute best when he's rotating lots of guys in, and keeping his starters fresh and out of foul trouble for the stretch run. When Ristic and Korcheck get time, look how this team performs, particularly with Zeus and Ashley fresh to close out games. When they don't, look at what happens.

The ASU game seems like a case study to support this. Ashley and Zeus were completely out of it. Ristic and Korcheck get 3 minutes combined. It is the way Miller is, and I am beginning to think it will never change, though I have no explanation for it. None. And the apologists always say the exact same thing: Our back-up bigs suck.

Year after year after year after year? Okay.

Go Cats!!

Catstatic wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

Catstatic wrote:Ristic played 3 minutes. 3. Since I did not get to see the game (thankfully!!), I am assuming he got hurt. If not, and knowing there is no one on ASU that would have a chance to stop him in the low post, I am simply speechless. Pitts got 11 minutes. Wow. Just, wow.

Go Cats!!

You didn't watch the game. Neither of those guys deserved a minute more than they got. TJ , RHJ and Stanley and first half York were the only guys who got off the bus. Stanleys stat line was not economic at all and he had several lapses on the defensive end, but a lot of that bad shooting night was attributed to uneven officiating. He at least knew it was a rival game and looked like he cared about winning.

From the sounds of it, Zeus and Ashley got way more minutes than they deserved.

I have finally given up on this issue, as it is the way Miller is. The worst place to be on this team is a back-up big. If you start, you can screw up as much as you want and you will still play 30 minutes a game. If you are a back-up big (from our "tiny" team with KNat and Tree on the bench, to Chol having a great game and not getting on the floor the next game, to Grant hardly getting off the bench at all, to Victor seeing the writing on the wall, to Korcheck turning games around like he did a few games ago and still being absolutely frozen out on the bench, to Ristic who is by far our best low post option getting 3 minutes! In a game that Zeus seems to be stinking up the place? 3! That should help Dusan relax and play his best the next game, don't you think? 3!), you either get used to not playing or fill out your transfer papers. Your minutes will be spotty at best, non-existent at worst.

Miller does everything, and I mean everything else right in my book. Burying bigs on the bench is the most confusing, inexplicable and frustrating thing he does. His teams play the absolute best when he's rotating lots of guys in, and keeping his starters fresh and out of foul trouble for the stretch run. When Ristic and Korcheck get time, look how this team performs, particularly with Zeus and Ashley fresh to close out games. When they don't, look at what happens.

The ASU game seems like a case study to support this. Ashley and Zeus were completely out of it. Ristic and Korcheck get 3 minutes combined. It is the way Miller is, and I am beginning to think it will never change, though I have no explanation for it. None. And the apologists always say the exact same thing: Our back-up bigs suck.

Year after year after year after year? Okay.

Go Cats!!

Probably my biggest gripe regarding Miller, aside from playing Zeus as much as he does, are the sub patterns. We seem to have these set sub patterns, which occur regardless of what's going on in the game. I can't even count how many times our guys (Stanley & RHJ) have really gotten things going, only to be pulled out 3.5 mins into the game. It kills all momentum and it drives me nuts.

My one gripe of Miller is that he doesn't spend enough time on the boards reading all of these brilliant posts to change what he does.

So many fantastic ideas here.

Tarc averages one more rebound per game than TJ, something is very, very wrong with that.

Coupled with his hands of steel it is very worrisome. I thought by now he would have shaken out of this, but it seems to be who he is.

Maybe he will respond better to some NBA or NBAD coaching?

Catstatic wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

Catstatic wrote:Ristic played 3 minutes. 3. Since I did not get to see the game (thankfully!!), I am assuming he got hurt. If not, and knowing there is no one on ASU that would have a chance to stop him in the low post, I am simply speechless. Pitts got 11 minutes. Wow. Just, wow.

Go Cats!!

You didn't watch the game. Neither of those guys deserved a minute more than they got. TJ , RHJ and Stanley and first half York were the only guys who got off the bus. Stanleys stat line was not economic at all and he had several lapses on the defensive end, but a lot of that bad shooting night was attributed to uneven officiating. He at least knew it was a rival game and looked like he cared about winning.

From the sounds of it, Zeus and Ashley got way more minutes than they deserved.

I have finally given up on this issue, as it is the way Miller is. The worst place to be on this team is a back-up big. If you start, you can screw up as much as you want and you will still play 30 minutes a game. If you are a back-up big (from our "tiny" team with KNat and Tree on the bench, to Chol having a great game and not getting on the floor the next game, to Grant hardly getting off the bench at all, to Victor seeing the writing on the wall, to Korcheck turning games around like he did a few games ago and still being absolutely frozen out on the bench, to Ristic who is by far our best low post option getting 3 minutes! In a game that Zeus seems to be stinking up the place? 3! That should help Dusan relax and play his best the next game, don't you think? 3!), you either get used to not playing or fill out your transfer papers. Your minutes will be spotty at best, non-existent at worst.

Miller does everything, and I mean everything else right in my book. Burying bigs on the bench is the most confusing, inexplicable and frustrating thing he does. His teams play the absolute best when he's rotating lots of guys in, and keeping his starters fresh and out of foul trouble for the stretch run. When Ristic and Korcheck get time, look how this team performs, particularly with Zeus and Ashley fresh to close out games. When they don't, look at what happens.

The ASU game seems like a case study to support this. Ashley and Zeus were completely out of it. Ristic and Korcheck get 3 minutes combined. It is the way Miller is, and I am beginning to think it will never change, though I have no explanation for it. None. And the apologists always say the exact same thing: Our back-up bigs suck.

Year after year after year after year? Okay.

Go Cats!!

Every damn time I would react here and tell you I agree 1000%. To the eye test, to the emotions, to my individual experience as a verrrry long time college basketball/Arizona fan I'd say yes to all of this.

Like you say. He is not changing.

You're going to learn how to play both ends of the floor esp D or you won't play much. Tarc is Sean's first big recruit at the position so no one was really ahead of him so this is what we have. Same with Ashley. Jerrett left and Chol wasn't good enough and Ashley is what he is. Both are very good and capable of good things for our team but we aren't quite there yet. Victor couldn't hack the expectation and so he left. I personally from accounts about the kid from even before he signed with AZ, Dusan is here for one thing and one thing only to develp his body and game for the NBA and he came to learn from one of the toughest coaches in SM. He gets it.

So Sean is stubborn. Stubborn in that I think he's gonna stick with this formula/system because with it, he believes in the long run and he's even said it many many times, we will always be in the conversation, alot of elite 8's with a shot at that Final Four.
You're going to "earn" everything and in the "process" by honoring that process you will do great things and you will reach your goals both individual and team. He hasn't gotten the right guys yet to A. come here or B. stick around long enough at the 4-5. Tarc is like York in that he has honored the process done things the SM way and "earned" it. Now we have Comanche and we will get a one and done at his position. or a 4th year starter in Tarc. Does Comanche and Mom understand that if Chance honors the process he's probably got a pretty good shot at being an NBAer under Miller but he prob isn't gettting too many minutes until he^^^see above. Simon, Smith, and Trier are coming and you have PJC, York, and Pitts to help them along and compete every day in practice to get you ready on both ends. All bigger, more athletic but Freshman. If Rabb comes you got Ristic and others to help him compete and learn in practice so he's ready. Anyway, maybe in this day and age of aau, one and done, social media generation, pussification of america, etc etc you gotta have a system, a strong one and stick with it no matter/have that consistancy so it's clear to all in order to stay elite and have a shot at it every year. And loyalaty is part of the CSM way. Because yes, it really is tough and takes a lot of balls and work to be where our program is at the moment. I'm no insider. This is all a guess on my part.

Olsondogg wrote:My one gripe of Miller is that he doesn't spend enough time on the boards reading all of these brilliant posts to change what he does.

So many fantastic ideas here.

Why do you post on anything having to do with Coach Miller? It is clear you cannot begin to fathom that perhaps he is not perfect, and when you cannot argue the point you go back to this condescending crap. We get it. Are you a relative of his? Are you paid by the Arizona Athletic Department to allow no dissent on these boards? Most everyone else here can actually discuss this team AND coach, but not you.

What cracks me up is some posters feel it is perfectly fine to criticize player after player after player on the team, but anything against the Coach (who, by the way is getting paid millions to put this team together and also happens to be a grown man) must never be permitted. I am glad Miller isn't as sensitive as you.

Go Cats!!

These are young guys playing basketball and there are ups and downs for various reasons. Even Wooden and Olson lost games, a lot of games. And if message boards were so vibrant at that time there would be a hundred schmucks all criticizing what they did wrong in each game. We're still 20-3 and leading the PAC. Things are pretty fucking good even with a loss here and there.

The overreactions get old...everyone has a solution for problems that either don't exist or are the natural byproduct of 18-22 year old men playing basketball games for months on end. Have people played basketball before, or any sport? Sometimes you or the team isn't playing as well on a certain day and ASU was one of those days for us. Not the end of the world and especially not a time for Miller to blow things up and deviate from what he does.

We're gonna go relatively deep in the tourney again this year and everyone bitching will be back praising Miller, doing the same beachcat-esque flip-flop of opinion like no words to the contrary were ever spoken. Bottom line, calm the hell down. Miller is good and so is this team. This is still a team that other teams will not want to see in their bracket come mid-March.

Catstatic wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:My one gripe of Miller is that he doesn't spend enough time on the boards reading all of these brilliant posts to change what he does.

So many fantastic ideas here.

Why do you post on anything having to do with Coach Miller? It is clear you cannot begin to fathom that perhaps he is not perfect, and when you cannot argue the point you go back to this condescending crap. We get it. Are you a relative of his? Are you paid by the Arizona Athletic Department to allow no dissent on these boards? Most everyone else here can actually discuss this team AND coach, but not you.

What cracks me up is some posters feel it is perfectly fine to criticize player after player after player on the team, but anything against the Coach (who, by the way is getting paid millions to put this team together and also happens to be a grown man) must never be permitted. I am glad Miller isn't as sensitive as you.

Go Cats!!

Nope not a relative. Just don't see how a collective group of whiners can "fix" a 20-3 team that has lost 3 games by 9 fucking points.

I mean, it's like you guys are handed a valuable piece of crystal and you complain that it isn't as clear as some other crystal and that the guy handing it to you should have handed it over a bit differently.

Complain all you want, I don't give a fuck. I'm not sensitive to it, but I am gonna call out dumbasses on this board that lament losses as failures of some kind, comment on "ceilings" and offer suggestions and remedy's to other dumbasses.

Sounds like you are the one with your panties in a bunch...

I have no dogg in your fight but trust me from a neutral observer, you're the one who comes off like having your panties in a bunch. You're not sensitive to it? That's rich. You chime in after every post of someone who is even slightly critical of any aspect of this team.

I think most hear grasp the fact that we're a 20-3 team. I think most also grasp the fact that we play in a dogg shit conference, and have a roster that is so superior in talent to most everyone we're playing.......that we damn well better be 20-3, if not better.

I would venture to say that most people here, even the cynics....think this team is at least capable....of making a deep run. But that collection of asu players should never beat us. Last year with Carson, Bachynski and Marshall....it was at least understandable. But not this year. Unacceptable. Stop acting like fans shouldn't be massively pissed off by that display.

HaCats wrote:I have no dogg in your fight but trust me from a neutral observer, you're the one who comes off like having your panties in a bunch. You're not sensitive to it? That's rich. You chime in after every post of someone who is even slightly critical of any aspect of this team.

I think most hear grasp the fact that we're a 20-3 team. I think most also grasp the fact that we play in a dogg shit conference, and have a roster that is so superior in talent to most everyone we're playing.......that we damn well better be 20-3, if not better.

I would venture to say that most people here, even the cynics....think this team is at least capable....of making a deep run. But that collection of asu players should never beat us. Last year with Carson, Bachynski and Marshall....it was at least understandable. But not this year. Unacceptable. Stop acting like fans shouldn't be massively pissed off by that display.

Idiots like you, who say a team "should never lose" this or that shows that you have likely not played organized sports before.

Define "unacceptable"...what are you going to do now that it happened? Storm to Byrne's office demanding something? Revoke some kind of membership? Burn your UA gear? Protest and picket the next home games?

No, you are going to jump back on when the team performs to your liking. I love when people come at me like my panties are in a wad, and then use terms like "unacceptable" and "pissed off".

The team lost a fucking road game in February by 3 points. Calm down and shut up.

HaCats wrote:I have no dogg in your fight but trust me from a neutral observer, you're the one who comes off like having your panties in a bunch. You're not sensitive to it? That's rich. You chime in after every post of someone who is even slightly critical of any aspect of this team.

I think most hear grasp the fact that we're a 20-3 team. I think most also grasp the fact that we play in a dogg shit conference, and have a roster that is so superior in talent to most everyone we're playing.......that we damn well better be 20-3, if not better.

I would venture to say that most people here, even the cynics....think this team is at least capable....of making a deep run. But that collection of asu players should never beat us. Last year with Carson, Bachynski and Marshall....it was at least understandable. But not this year. Unacceptable. Stop acting like fans shouldn't be massively pissed off by that display.

ASU was just as bad last year. Difference being that they won close games last year and they've lost close games this year. Check their Kenpom. ASU Kenpom last year was 45, this year they are 44.
www.kenpom.com

This is just Odogg's schitck.

CBCat wrote:This is just Odogg's schitck.

What is exactly? Stating that it's not the end of the world cause a game was lost?

Catstatic wrote: From the sounds of it, Zeus and Ashley got way more minutes than they deserved.

I have finally given up on this issue, as it is the way Miller is. The worst place to be on this team is a back-up big. If you start, you can screw up as much as you want and you will still play 30 minutes a game. If you are a back-up big (from our "tiny" team with KNat and Tree on the bench, to Chol having a great game and not getting on the floor the next game, to Grant hardly getting off the bench at all, to Victor seeing the writing on the wall, to Korcheck turning games around like he did a few games ago and still being absolutely frozen out on the bench, to Ristic who is by far our best low post option getting 3 minutes! In a game that Zeus seems to be stinking up the place? 3! That should help Dusan relax and play his best the next game, don't you think? 3!), you either get used to not playing or fill out your transfer papers. Your minutes will be spotty at best, non-existent at worst.

Miller does everything, and I mean everything else right in my book. Burying bigs on the bench is the most confusing, inexplicable and frustrating thing he does. His teams play the absolute best when he's rotating lots of guys in, and keeping his starters fresh and out of foul trouble for the stretch run. When Ristic and Korcheck get time, look how this team performs, particularly with Zeus and Ashley fresh to close out games. When they don't, look at what happens.

The ASU game seems like a case study to support this. Ashley and Zeus were completely out of it. Ristic and Korcheck get 3 minutes combined. It is the way Miller is, and I am beginning to think it will never change, though I have no explanation for it. None. And the apologists always say the exact same thing: Our back-up bigs suck.

Year after year after year after year? Okay.

Go Cats!!

I guess we are just from two different schools of basketball here. Unless a guy on the bench is an absolute stud and is CONSISTENTLY playing at a higher level than guys like Bash and Zeus (guys who are starting for a reason and have earned their roles), you ride with the guys who got you there. Contrary to Zeus' poor hands, Bash's poor defense, and both of their seemingly passive attitudes, those guys have strengths the team needs and relies on to win. Ristic (or Korcheck if someone is silly enough to argue it) have done absolutely nothing to show me they have better rebounding instincts than Zeus. Zeus is invaluable on defense and I will not belabor the point because others have expressed it numerous times. And on offense, despite his poo poo hands, he is still a huge body on offense too and u still have to respect him for that. Despite Bash thinking he is only a jumpshooter, he is still invaluable in terms of stretching the floor on offense and keeping teams honest. Ristic and Korcheck do not provide those positives, and the little positive they do offer, pales in comparison to what you get from Zeus and Bash.

There are flaws in every example you have given us. Tree and Nat were garbage. How well is Chol doing at the inferior San Diego State? Grant and Victor didn't have the balls to stay at the program for more than a year. You don't see how they defend in practice, how they play, how much they hustle and buy in, all of the mistakes they make, THEIR CONSISTENCY, etc. There is a reason some freshman get play and others dont.

Ristic is not our best low post option. Kid has some offensive promise, but that is only one part of the game, and defense is the biggest part of Coach Miller's. He is frequently out of position, doesn't defend well, and he is still learning the college game. He is not used to the speed at this level either.

Olsondogg wrote:

HaCats wrote:I have no dogg in your fight but trust me from a neutral observer, you're the one who comes off like having your panties in a bunch. You're not sensitive to it? That's rich. You chime in after every post of someone who is even slightly critical of any aspect of this team.

I think most hear grasp the fact that we're a 20-3 team. I think most also grasp the fact that we play in a dogg shit conference, and have a roster that is so superior in talent to most everyone we're playing.......that we damn well better be 20-3, if not better.

I would venture to say that most people here, even the cynics....think this team is at least capable....of making a deep run. But that collection of asu players should never beat us. Last year with Carson, Bachynski and Marshall....it was at least understandable. But not this year. Unacceptable. Stop acting like fans shouldn't be massively pissed off by that display.

Idiots like you, who say a team "should never lose" this or that shows that you have likely not played organized sports before.

Define "unacceptable"...what are you going to do now that it happened? Storm to Byrne's office demanding something? Revoke some kind of membership? Burn your UA gear? Protest and picket the next home games?

No, you are going to jump back on when the team performs to your liking. I love when people come at me like my panties are in a wad, and then use terms like "unacceptable" and "pissed off".

The team lost a fucking road game in February by 3 points. Calm down and shut up.

"Calm down and shut up???

Wow, you need to down some valium or stop posting on message boards. These folks have just as much right as you do to post their opinions. Grow up.

Olsondogg wrote:

HaCats wrote:I have no dogg in your fight but trust me from a neutral observer, you're the one who comes off like having your panties in a bunch. You're not sensitive to it? That's rich. You chime in after every post of someone who is even slightly critical of any aspect of this team.

I think most hear grasp the fact that we're a 20-3 team. I think most also grasp the fact that we play in a dogg shit conference, and have a roster that is so superior in talent to most everyone we're playing.......that we damn well better be 20-3, if not better.

I would venture to say that most people here, even the cynics....think this team is at least capable....of making a deep run. But that collection of asu players should never beat us. Last year with Carson, Bachynski and Marshall....it was at least understandable. But not this year. Unacceptable. Stop acting like fans shouldn't be massively pissed off by that display.

Idiots like you, who say a team "should never lose" this or that shows that you have likely not played organized sports before.

Define "unacceptable"...what are you going to do now that it happened? Storm to Byrne's office demanding something? Revoke some kind of membership? Burn your UA gear? Protest and picket the next home games?

No, you are going to jump back on when the team performs to your liking. I love when people come at me like my panties are in a wad, and then use terms like "unacceptable" and "pissed off".

The team lost a fucking road game in February by 3 points. Calm down and shut up.

"Calm down and shut up???

Wow, you need to down some valium or stop posting on message boards. These folks have just as much right as you do to post their opinions. Grow up.

dmjcat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

HaCats wrote:I have no dogg in your fight but trust me from a neutral observer, you're the one who comes off like having your panties in a bunch. You're not sensitive to it? That's rich. You chime in after every post of someone who is even slightly critical of any aspect of this team.

I think most hear grasp the fact that we're a 20-3 team. I think most also grasp the fact that we play in a dogg shit conference, and have a roster that is so superior in talent to most everyone we're playing.......that we damn well better be 20-3, if not better.

I would venture to say that most people here, even the cynics....think this team is at least capable....of making a deep run. But that collection of asu players should never beat us. Last year with Carson, Bachynski and Marshall....it was at least understandable. But not this year. Unacceptable. Stop acting like fans shouldn't be massively pissed off by that display.

Idiots like you, who say a team "should never lose" this or that shows that you have likely not played organized sports before.

Define "unacceptable"...what are you going to do now that it happened? Storm to Byrne's office demanding something? Revoke some kind of membership? Burn your UA gear? Protest and picket the next home games?

No, you are going to jump back on when the team performs to your liking. I love when people come at me like my panties are in a wad, and then use terms like "unacceptable" and "pissed off".

The team lost a fucking road game in February by 3 points. Calm down and shut up.

"Calm down and shut up???

Wow, you need to down some valium or stop posting on message boards. These folks have just as much right as you do to post their opinions. Grow up.

Good point. And I have the right to say what I said. Whine and bitch after a loss. But tons of us would prefer if you grew up and calmed down. And stfu.

Olsondogg wrote:

dmjcat wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

HaCats wrote:I have no dogg in your fight but trust me from a neutral observer, you're the one who comes off like having your panties in a bunch. You're not sensitive to it? That's rich. You chime in after every post of someone who is even slightly critical of any aspect of this team.

I think most hear grasp the fact that we're a 20-3 team. I think most also grasp the fact that we play in a dogg shit conference, and have a roster that is so superior in talent to most everyone we're playing.......that we damn well better be 20-3, if not better.

I would venture to say that most people here, even the cynics....think this team is at least capable....of making a deep run. But that collection of asu players should never beat us. Last year with Carson, Bachynski and Marshall....it was at least understandable. But not this year. Unacceptable. Stop acting like fans shouldn't be massively pissed off by that display.

Idiots like you, who say a team "should never lose" this or that shows that you have likely not played organized sports before.

Define "unacceptable"...what are you going to do now that it happened? Storm to Byrne's office demanding something? Revoke some kind of membership? Burn your UA gear? Protest and picket the next home games?

No, you are going to jump back on when the team performs to your liking. I love when people come at me like my panties are in a wad, and then use terms like "unacceptable" and "pissed off".

The team lost a fucking road game in February by 3 points. Calm down and shut up.

"Calm down and shut up???

Wow, you need to down some valium or stop posting on message boards. These folks have just as much right as you do to post their opinions. Grow up.

Good point. And I have the right to say what I said. Whine and bitch after a loss. But tons of us would prefer if you grew up and calmed down. And stfu.

Just an observation but you seem to be doing most of the "Whining & Bitching" in this thread

Evidently the use of the term "STFU" makes you a grownup?

It's in your signature, genius

Olsondogg wrote:It's in your signature, genius

Yes, it is, but I didn't use the term..........dc4azcats did. I just keep it there to remind him.

Interesting both of you like to use the term "STFU" a lot. Are you channeling your inner dc4azcats?

Hey, it's in your sig buddy. Throw an emoticon in there for good measure and lecture me agian about being grownup.

Olsondogg wrote:Hey, it's in your sig buddy. Throw an emoticon in there for good measure and lecture me agian about being grownup.

I'll sleep better tonight knowing I'm your "buddy"

Gotta stop laughing before you stfu and go to sleep.

catgrad97 wrote:

luteformayor2 wrote:Zeus laughing after missing the catch on the beautiful TJ tip pass was the end of the line.

Yes it was, and TJ's slow burn caught on TV after the play made it no secret how he felt toward Zeus either-- especially after he couldn't grab the subsequent loose ball.

Disappointment is the kindest word I can use, although Elliott saying Tarc is "still developing an offensive game" is a little too day-late, dollar-short to settle with me.

Bottom line is that, regardless of his physique, Kaleb loses every battle at the rim he has because he does not possess basketball hands. His lack of post game development will be the chief reason Arizona does not make a Final Four this season.

Your last paragragh. I was thinking this too by the end of the asu game.

Zeus's bad hands are costing a few turnover's a game, not a Final Four.

Jesus Christ people love drama.

billk78 wrote:

luteformayor2 wrote:Zeus laughing after missing the catch on the beautiful TJ tip pass was the end of the line.

Start Ristic and start working a guard oriented line up with Ashley running the post. Zeus is pathetic and it is 100% because his mentality is not conducive to playing basketball. He doesn't seem to care.

Is Ashley much better? All he seems to be doing is showing off a three point shot for scouts. (Problem is he can't make threes.)

At least Ashley has the excuse that he is not the same after the injury. Tarc just never met the potential we all thought he had. He has barely developed from where he was as a freshman. I think it has less to do with Miller's coaching than Tarc being one of the worst cases of arrested development to ever suit up for this program.

Merkin wrote:Good story by Rivera:

http://www.foxsports.com/arizona/story/ ... ame-112314


"Kaleb has been our best player since we've started school," Miller said. "He probably has a sense of frustration about him in the first three games of our season because he hasn't performed as well offensively - points per game and field goal attempts."
But Miller vows, "The best is yet to come for him."

Sadly, this quote is laughable now. If Grant had stayed, would Tarc be getting even 10 minutes per game?

Unreal

az91 wrote: At least Ashley has the excuse that he is not the same after the injury. Tarc just never met the potential we all thought he had. He has barely developed from where he was as a freshman. I think it has less to do with Miller's coaching than Tarc being one of the worst cases of arrested development to ever suit up for this program.

That is the excuse everyone makes for Ashley, we don't know that for a fact. But people seem to have selective memory with Bash. Passiveness has been an issue since he came here. His lack of a motor has been an issue since he came here. Mental lapses and mental brainfarts have been an issue since he came here. Completely checking out of games and/or dissappearing for extended periods has been an issue since he has been here. Not wanting to play around the rim and fully take advantage of his height and skill set has been an issue since he has been here. Almost all of us are homers and think the best of our guys, and frequently we overrate them. I am hard pressed to think of a guy we have overrated more than Bash. He shows flashes of what most of us think he is, but his head holds him back.

Bash knows what he will be in the NBA if he makes it. His outside shot has gotten better. When your outside shot gets better, the natural thing to do is take more outside shots. So maybe he isn't the same post injury, or that could not be the case. Maybe it's a combination of both. Unlike most, I have never thought highly of him as a defensive player, ever.

And Tarc is far from the first stud big man to flop at the next level. And he is far from a flop anyways and still has a year and a half to be what we all want him to be. And to answer your other question, Tarc's minutes would not drop that much if Grant was still here. Bash would be taking more of the hit, and Ristic wouldn't see the floor unless we got in really bad foul trouble.

Olsondogg wrote:Zeus's bad hands are costing a few turnover's a game, not a Final Four.

Jesus Christ people love drama.

I assume you have dismissed my posting of Tarc's entire stat line here that actually uses facts to demonstrate Kaleb Tarczewski's production has dropped off since last year.

So have his minutes. A few more for Ristic and Korcheck might not hurt, but they wouldn't be the solution to Zeus' problems, which are costing this team more than a few turnovers.

Most of those turnovers were easy points too, and they don't include the blocked shots, strips going up to the rim and lost rebounding battles with players a foot shorter than Zeus is. That's more than just a few turnovers.

I also think that, whether anybody knows it or not, his basketball career may have peaked as a sophomore, and I don't want "he is who he is" Zeus to become Miller's Ed Stokes--particularly if the program loses out on Rabb because of it.

I like Zeus. He just reminds me of Gronk the year he had his back injury, only without the medical excuse. Beast-looking, but no beast in him.

catgrad97 wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Zeus's bad hands are costing a few turnover's a game, not a Final Four.

Jesus Christ people love drama.

I assume you have dismissed my posting of Tarc's entire stat line here that actually uses facts to demonstrate Kaleb Tarczewski's production has dropped off since last year.

So have his minutes. A few more for Ristic and Korcheck might not hurt, but they wouldn't be the solution to Zeus' problems, which are costing this team more than a few turnovers.

Most of those turnovers were easy points too, and they don't include the blocked shots, strips going up to the rim and lost rebounding battles with players a foot shorter than Zeus is. That's more than just a few turnovers.

I also think that, whether anybody knows it or not, his basketball career may have peaked as a sophomore, and I don't want "he is who he is" Zeus to become Miller's Ed Stokes--particularly if the program loses out on Rabb because of it.

I like Zeus. He just reminds me of Gronk the year he had his back injury, only without the medical excuse. Beast-looking, but no beast in him.

I could not agree more about Zeus. It would probably be best for him and the program, if he goes pro after this season.

Zeus's value is not on the offensive end. Again to say his hands are gonna cost a Final 4 trip for his team is foolish. As is lamenting a single college basketball player as the reason for anything.

Hell I am reading more and more love for Jerrett as if he was the solution to all of the "problems". I find those rose colored glasses quite funny.

Do me one favor and post some stat lines of opposing big men and how they fared against Zeus this year.

Olsondogg wrote:Zeus's value is not on the offensive end. Again to say his hands are gonna cost a Final 4 trip for his team is foolish. As is lamenting a single college basketball player as the reason for anything.

Hell I am reading more and more love for Jerrett as if he was the solution to all of the "problems". I find those rose colored glasses quite funny.

Do me one favor and post some stat lines of opposing big men and how they fared against Zeus this year.

You could make the argument that it wasn't his hands, but his defense that cost us a Final 4 trip last year.

Blaming a loss on one player is foolish, but it played a large role.

I agree though on Jerrett. The dude was soft, I don't/didn't see that changing.

Zeus isn't a great post defender. He just isn't. If you think he is, you have never seen one. He's a big body that eats space and he's an excellent team defender who has adapted to Miller's system well. I'd say about average with weak-side help, and maybe a slightly below average rebounder (well below average for his size). Rarely do you see him rip down contested boards in a crowd but he does have reasonable fundamentals.

IMO he's mostly valuable because no one else on the team is 7 feet/250 and plays great team D. And all that space eating allows for the other players to play their roles with more effectiveness. That's why Miller likes him. And while his O isn't anything remarkable, he can be a skilled low post scorer that the other team has to consider in their gameplan/sub-patterns. He's just not good in traffic. This is definitely a contributing factor that adds to our team versatility.

I like Kaleb personally. He's frustrating at times because of the hands/lack of a mean streak, but you can see he's a good kid. The attitude is innate, but you would think the hands could be improved. If I'm his father or coach, I don't know maybe he should be practicing with ping pong balls instead of basketballs for a while. Or perhaps he's just pressing too hard (Miller is pretty damn intense). Whatever it is, after 2.5yrs now it's probably unfixable and that's damn tragic.

Cool. So Sean Miller has never seen a good defender.

Olsondogg wrote:Cool. So Sean Miller has never seen a good defender.

That's what you got out of my post? Mmm K.

UAGreg wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Zeus's value is not on the offensive end. Again to say his hands are gonna cost a Final 4 trip for his team is foolish. As is lamenting a single college basketball player as the reason for anything.

Hell I am reading more and more love for Jerrett as if he was the solution to all of the "problems". I find those rose colored glasses quite funny.

Do me one favor and post some stat lines of opposing big men and how they fared against Zeus this year.

You could make the argument that it wasn't his hands, but his defense that cost us a Final 4 trip last year.

Blaming a loss on one player is foolish, but it played a large role.

I agree though on Jerrett. The dude was soft, I don't/didn't see that changing.

Dude. Everyone had a shot at Kaminsky. Even AG who was one of the best defenders in the nation couldn't stop him.

Again, how have big men fared THIS year?

threenumberones wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Cool. So Sean Miller has never seen a good defender.

That's what you got out of my post? Mmm K.

Sorry couldn't get past such a glorious intro.

catgrad97 wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Zeus's bad hands are costing a few turnover's a game, not a Final Four.

Jesus Christ people love drama.

I assume you have dismissed my posting of Tarc's entire stat line here that actually uses facts to demonstrate Kaleb Tarczewski's production has dropped off since last year.

So have his minutes. A few more for Ristic and Korcheck might not hurt, but they wouldn't be the solution to Zeus' problems, which are costing this team more than a few turnovers.

Most of those turnovers were easy points too, and they don't include the blocked shots, strips going up to the rim and lost rebounding battles with players a foot shorter than Zeus is. That's more than just a few turnovers.

I also think that, whether anybody knows it or not, his basketball career may have peaked as a sophomore, and I don't want "he is who he is" Zeus to become Miller's Ed Stokes--particularly if the program loses out on Rabb because of it.

I like Zeus. He just reminds me of Gronk the year he had his back injury, only without the medical excuse. Beast-looking, but no beast in him.

When Ristic came in the game on Saturday he got immediately eaten up and ASU's bigs scored at will against him. Kaleb may not be able to catch the ball like we all would hope, although I believe better entry passes would help me at times, but he impacts the game is so many more ways. Ways that Ristic and Korcheck simply cannot even do 1/3rd of what Kaleb does. Kaleb's TOs are a probably but it is a better option that giving up way more points than the Cats currently do in the paint. Miller will just need to find a way to eliminate the TOs come March.

threenumberones wrote:Zeus isn't a great post defender. He just isn't. If you think he is, you have never seen one. He's a big body that eats space and he's an excellent team defender who has adapted to Miller's system well. I'd say about average with weak-side help, and maybe a slightly below average rebounder (well below average for his size). Rarely do you see him rip down contested boards in a crowd but he does have reasonable fundamentals.

IMO he's mostly valuable because no one else on the team is 7 feet/250 and plays great team D. And all that space eating allows for the other players to play their roles with more effectiveness. That's why Miller likes him. And while his O isn't anything remarkable, he can be a skilled low post scorer that the other team has to consider in their gameplan/sub-patterns. He's just not good in traffic. This is definitely a contributing factor that adds to our team versatility.

I like Kaleb personally. He's frustrating at times because of the hands/lack of a mean streak, but you can see he's a good kid. The attitude is innate, but you would think the hands could be improved. If I'm his father or coach, I don't know maybe he should be practicing with ping pong balls instead of basketballs for a while. Or perhaps he's just pressing too hard (Miller is pretty damn intense). Whatever it is, after 2.5yrs now it's probably unfixable and that's damn tragic.

Kaleb is by far the best option in the post though both guarding his man and in help situations. Look how pathetic Ristic and Ashley were on Saturday as evidence of that.

Machina wrote:Miller will just need to find a way to eliminate the TOs come March.

So now you're blaming the coach for Kaleb's glass hands?

Machina wrote: Kaleb may not be able to catch the ball like we all would hope, although I believe better entry passes would help me at times

I agree some of the entry passes are pretty poor, but against ASU Zeus had 2 NBA perfect passes, one from TJ, and another from Stanimal, and he fumbled them both away.

Can't say what it's like in Div I ball, but in my rec center days you drop 2 passes like that you are not seeing the ball again rest of the game.