Bear Down Wildcats

I hope that post was a complete waste of time to write. I really do. But people should realize that WVU is a favorite (at least in my mind) to play Arizona on Saturday.

With that said:

Go Zags!

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

First, the "pressure" full court defense that Huggins implements works very well when things seem frantic and the opposing team feels that something is slipping away--and the refs allow grabbing and pushing to happen (which in the NCAA they tend to allow). That does not bode well for the Cats...but really, it should be a wash if things are done correctly. First, PJC should never be allowed to inbound the ball, he should be there as a primary ball handler...I haven't understood Miller's thoughts on letting him inbound except for the fact that he must trust his decision making. If it were me, I'd let someone taller (Lauri or even Rawle inbound the ball). Second, setting screens from a 4 across line up set is really simple and effective to break a press and lead to some easy baskets that may discourage the full court press over the course of the game.

wow, well done, Odogg -- thats a really solid post.

i took out parts of it cause there is really nothing for me to add but the bolded blue has drove me nucking futs all god damn year.

thank you for sharing

I'm not sure I agree (with all respect to you guys). You want an inbounder to be able to receive a return pass from the guy catching the inbound if he's in trouble, then go. Lauri is a bad fit for this. Rawle is better, but I'm not sure he is the guy you want.

If we expect a foul and just need to get it in, I see Lauri, but once the ball's in, I get why Miller goes with someone who can get the ball back and hopefully break the press.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

97cats wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

First, the "pressure" full court defense that Huggins implements works very well when things seem frantic and the opposing team feels that something is slipping away--and the refs allow grabbing and pushing to happen (which in the NCAA they tend to allow). That does not bode well for the Cats...but really, it should be a wash if things are done correctly. First, PJC should never be allowed to inbound the ball, he should be there as a primary ball handler...I haven't understood Miller's thoughts on letting him inbound except for the fact that he must trust his decision making. If it were me, I'd let someone taller (Lauri or even Rawle inbound the ball). Second, setting screens from a 4 across line up set is really simple and effective to break a press and lead to some easy baskets that may discourage the full court press over the course of the game.

wow, well done, Odogg -- thats a really solid post.

i took out parts of it cause there is really nothing for me to add but the bolded blue has drove me nucking futs all god damn year.

thank you for sharing

I'm not sure I agree (with all respect to you guys). You want an inbounder to be able to receive a return pass from the guy catching the inbound if he's in trouble, then go. Lauri is a bad fit for this. Rawle is better, but I'm not sure he is the guy you want.

If we expect a foul and just need to get it in, I see Lauri, but once the ball's in, I get why Miller goes with someone who can get the ball back and hopefully break the press.

Kadeem was horrible at it. Would seem that he just needs coaching, not reassignment.

I posted a few games back that Trier is our best option to inbound. He has decent size, he handles (mental) pressure well, but most importantly, he can handle the ball on a return pass. If that goes back to Lauri, you have a 7 footer getting swarmed by smaller guys. Rawle is probably better than Allen and PJC, but he can get himself into trouble when he dribbles too much, so yeah, Trier is the guy. These days it seems like I am looking for every reason to remove Dusan out of the equation (I am), but you really, really have to take him out of the equation against WVU unless we are doing well against the press. Their tallest players who play meaningful minutes are 6'8" and 6'9". Lauri, Chance, Pinder, that's it. The thought of Dusan handling a long pass and what he does if he does manage to catch it cleanly makes me ill. With Chance in, 1-3-1 should be Trier inbounding, PJC/Kadeem the middle with Lauri and Rawle flanking him and Chance as the deep man. In a small lineup, Trier inbounding, PJC middle with Rawle and Kadeem flanking him, Lauri deep man. That gives us our best unit, and fill in with Chance, Pinder and Kobi to keep legs fresh. Smart substitution patterns being key there. Honestly, I'd be giving Kobi quite a bit of burn against WVU until he played himself out of the game.

The coffin corner is entirely self-induced. Yes, the defense lets you have it for a reason, but the other night, PJC easily could have received a pass about three feet to the side of the rim and a good 6-8 feet from the baseline because the middle man just stood right under the hoop w his back turned and the presser on the left side was on that sideline in the correct position to trap. PJC instinctively ran directly to that corner for no reason and subsequently got trapped. Kadeem does the same shit. Bad habit? Laziness? No freaking idea. Our guys dont do the elementary "walk your man toward the baseline and dart at 45 degrees to either side of the backboard to get the pass." They just take off straight to the corner.

97cats wrote:

they are absolutely one of the worst match-ups for Arizona in the country. if the refs let them push and pull and grab and claw its going to be awful tough for Arizona's biggest weakness to overcome.

DO NOT WANT BOB HUGGINS -- do not want

I wonder I'm just misunderstanding. These quotes conjure up for me Nolan Richardson's 40 minutes of hell, or the ca. 1990s Pistons. But this WVU team has none of that intensity or physicality. Their full-press makes for 94 feet of open floor. If an offense speeds up, it risks turning the ball over unforced through miscued passing, traveling, etc. But if they hold it up and set up their offense, WVU's man-to-man really stretches and keeps the half court porous with all kinds of lanes to the rim.

Then they whip out that super high 1-3-1 zone, which is so stretched that it starts in the backcourt as kind of full-court zone. Again, the floor is completely open, and the point is warp the passing lanes and turn you over. They have about zero chance at defensive boards when they do that.

On inbounds passes, they force the pass to the corner, and then the man guarding the inbounds rushes to trap the corner while 3 run downcourt, so you just need to pass it back to the inbounder as the trap comes. They can do more than this if you're looking to kill clock, but so can just about any tourney team.

The way I see it, Gonzaga or Arizona gets beat by getting rattled at a fast pace, not by getting pushed around. Don't get me wrong, you guys are smarter than I am, and I may very well just see WVU wrong. I think Gonzaga or Arizona are more likely to adjust to such an extended defense than they are to lose control and go home. And in spite of that gigantic owl-like scowling man perched on the stool in the sweat suit. He's just giving his team the best chance they have against more talented teams.

Love this debate so far and just wish we were already on to the Elite 8.

Longhorned wrote:

97cats wrote:

they are absolutely one of the worst match-ups for Arizona in the country. if the refs let them push and pull and grab and claw its going to be awful tough for Arizona's biggest weakness to overcome.

DO NOT WANT BOB HUGGINS -- do not want

The way I see it, Gonzaga or Arizona gets beat by getting rattled at a fast pace, not by getting pushed around. Don't get me wrong, you guys are smarter than I am, and I may very well just see WVU wrong. I think Gonzaga or Arizona are more likely to adjust to such an extended defense than they are to lose control and go home. And in spite of that gigantic owl-like scowling man perched on the stool in the sweat suit. He's just giving his team the best chance they have against more talented teams.

You aren't wrong LH, but having watched a few WVU games (blame my kids for not watching more) they do play an aggressive press when either down in a game, or when the other team feels rattled. Huggins has stated that he does this for the very reason you mentioned, and WVU is actually one of the more efficient teams offensively because of it.

The adjustment you speak of is correct. Quite frankly it comes from discipline and being able to be that. If Arizona plays a game against WVU the way they did in the 1st half against St. Mary's, they will get beaten handily--and it will be really ugly to watch.

As stated before, root for the Zags to figure it out and beat WVU...cause even if my bracket says Arizona beats WVU, that's not a game I want to watch.

So...how about Xavier?

But seriously, any team that makes the Sweet 16 is dangerous. Arizona has been on both sides of what folks thought should have been easy wins for the higher seed.

For the love of god I am hoping Kobi can hit a few three's against the zone. Should we advance his driving, shooting and ball handling capability will be needed against the Zags or WVU especially with Rawle being banged up.

Also I think free throws will be huge in San Jose. Arizona is much better than the other 3, but Zags are somewhat close.

Season % -
XU - 69.1%
Zags - 72.7%
WVU - 68.3%
Zona - 76.3%

jajoyce wrote:So...how about Xavier?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4350#p249527" target="_blank

Upon further reflection the WV match-up is the nightmare scenario. Maybe I'm over valuing them but in this environment, I think they bring an element to the table that in one game can be the difference maker.

They do have some losses but if they have one of those charmed games where their shot is falling to go along with that deadly press, the Zags are going to get beat and we will have a bad match-up as well.

For all of our talent we are one of the poorest in-bounding the ball teams around as already discussed. Additionally we are a rather average ball handling team, and under a targeted high-pressure relentless press our ball-handling troubles are compounded with easy steals and points off turnovers.

Outside of PJC we can be exploited and rattled.

In short, I think WV beats the Zags and we beat X. Leaving us with another nightmare situation facing WV in a Elite Eight match-up that could go either way.

Huggins being the cagey old cranky veteran that he is will have his guys hell bent for election and ready to make a statement.

Hows that for going out on a limb.

1 game at a time

sweet 16 game lines:

Kansas -5 vs Purdue
Michigan -1 vs Oregon
Zags -3 vs WVU
AZ -7.5 vs Xavier
Florida -2 vs Wisconsin
Baylor -3.5 vs South Carolina
UCLA -1 vs Kentucky
North Carolina -7.5 vs Butler

Lots of tight lines there. A little shocked at the Michigan Oregon line. What a story being painted by big blue. The two lines that stick out to me is NC and AZ. Even though they are the highest point spreads I like both favorites in these matchups. I also like South Carolina (mainly because I just don't think Baylor is well coached). Thoughts?

Main Event wrote:1 game at a time

Yep, 40 mins at a time.

azcat49 wrote:sweet 16 game lines:

Kansas -5 vs Purdue
Michigan -1 vs Oregon
Zags -3 vs WVU
AZ -7.5 vs Xavier
Florida -2 vs Wisconsin
Baylor -3.5 vs South Carolina
UCLA -1 vs Kentucky
North Carolina -7.5 vs Butler

Lots of tight lines there. A little shocked at the Michigan Oregon line. What a story being painted by big blue. The two lines that stick out to me is NC and AZ. Even though they are the highest point spreads I like both favorites in these matchups. I also like South Carolina (mainly because I just don; think Baylor is well coached). Thoughts?

I didn't think Baylor would make it to this weekend, so while I agree on that, there's a heavy dose of "what do I know?" in there. The UNC line is interesting because of the contrasting styles of the teams. Total is 153, so it looks like Vegas thinks UNC will win the tempo game. The Michigan line makes sense mostly due to the public riding the Michigan wave right now, and Oregon having a tough time surviving URI. The total in that game is 147 and seems very likely to hit.

rgdeuce wrote:I posted a few games back that Trier is our best option to inbound. He has decent size, he handles (mental) pressure well, but most importantly, he can handle the ball on a return pass. If that goes back to Lauri, you have a 7 footer getting swarmed by smaller guys. Rawle is probably better than Allen and PJC, but he can get himself into trouble when he dribbles too much, so yeah, Trier is the guy. These days it seems like I am looking for every reason to remove Dusan out of the equation (I am), but you really, really have to take him out of the equation against WVU unless we are doing well against the press. Their tallest players who play meaningful minutes are 6'8" and 6'9". Lauri, Chance, Pinder, that's it. The thought of Dusan handling a long pass and what he does if he does manage to catch it cleanly makes me ill. With Chance in, 1-3-1 should be Trier inbounding, PJC/Kadeem the middle with Lauri and Rawle flanking him and Chance as the deep man. In a small lineup, Trier inbounding, PJC middle with Rawle and Kadeem flanking him, Lauri deep man. That gives us our best unit, and fill in with Chance, Pinder and Kobi to keep legs fresh. Smart substitution patterns being key there. Honestly, I'd be giving Kobi quite a bit of burn against WVU until he played himself out of the game.

The coffin corner is entirely self-induced. Yes, the defense lets you have it for a reason, but the other night, PJC easily could have received a pass about three feet to the side of the rim and a good 6-8 feet from the baseline because the middle man just stood right under the hoop w his back turned and the presser on the left side was on that sideline in the correct position to trap. PJC instinctively ran directly to that corner for no reason and subsequently got trapped. Kadeem does the same shit. Bad habit? Laziness? No freaking idea. Our guys dont do the elementary "walk your man toward the baseline and dart at 45 degrees to either side of the backboard to get the pass." They just take off straight to the corner.

It depends on the type of press, but you have to fight to cross someone's face because they'll try to push you to the corner. I'm not sure PJC is physically able to walk someone off.

I'm not sure it's laziness, just defaulting to what you can get. I hate PJC being the initial recipient of a pass. He gets overwhelmed too fast and can't do a ton except reverse and try to tiptoe the baseline to get to the middle.

I like PJC to receive the pass rather than inbound it. Best handles on the team period...get him on a motion towards the other basket rather than towards you...by setting a staggered screen.

Line up like this at the FT line:
X
X



X
X

And use motion to set screens. Hard to detail on this forum, but there are plenty of examples how to break a press out there. I like Pinder to inbound when he's in, I like Chance if he's in, etc. Not Trier...too valuable as a scoring/foul option in the press.

It's not rocket science...just be strong with the ball.

I'd like to add that we are flirting with the 5 second call too much for a team with an athletic 7 footer with hands. Lauri's primary job on an inbound should be as the baseline screener, with his 2nd move establishing a post position about 5 feet inbounds in front of the inbounder...if the screen and other action away from Lauri does not produce an open man, the inbounder should pass the ball to Lauri just above his head, then cut angle right or left of Lauri on a dead sprint. Lauri then can pivot right or left, and hit the sprinting inbounder or other open teammate or, if the defender went with the inbounder, take the ball for a few dribbles until someone can come back to him for the hand off.

There is little reason, in my mind, for us to flirt with 5 second calls when we have a 7 foot ball handler with good hands. It's like the perfect bail out player in that situation. I am not asking for him to bring the ball up the floor, but he is a sure-fire late 5-second count inbound option. He catches and keeps the ball high, if people swarm him, it is likely the inbound defender in that alignment, and the inbounder sprint should provide relief.

Olsondogg wrote:I like PJC to receive the pass rather than inbound it. Best handles on the team period...get him on a motion towards the other basket rather than towards you...by setting a staggered screen.

Line up like this at the FT line:
X
X



X
X

And use motion to set screens. Hard to detail on this forum, but there are plenty of examples how to break a press out there. I like Pinder to inbound when he's in, I like Chance if he's in, etc. Not Trier...too valuable as a scoring/foul option in the press.

It's not rocket science...just be strong with the ball.

Are you thinking something like this?

just fucking win, Gonzaga

97cats wrote:when the bracket got released i was asked to do a podcast and i said right off the bat that the only team that could take Arizona down in the west region is WVU and every Arizona fan from here to China should be rooting for whoever plays WVU.

link?

Olsondogg wrote:I like PJC to receive the pass rather than inbound it. Best handles on the team period...get him on a motion towards the other basket rather than towards you...by setting a staggered screen.

Line up like this at the FT line:
X
X



X
X

And use motion to set screens. Hard to detail on this forum, but there are plenty of examples how to break a press out there. I like Pinder to inbound when he's in, I like Chance if he's in, etc. Not Trier...too valuable as a scoring/foul option in the press.

It's not rocket science...just be strong with the ball.

How much I like that depends on man or zone. Man, I don't like it bc it draws a ton of congestion and defenders.

Man press, just have a single guy. It's really hard for a single defender to check a single guy for 5 seconds. Plus, get the ball in and they virtually have no trap.

Zone press, I like that alignment better, but you still need a runner or two to keep the D from constricting too much. An underutilized tool is running the baseline off a make. So few teams do it, but it is really effective in creating better angles.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698 ... g-national" target="_blank

Think we might like this

azcat49 wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698 ... g-national

Think we might like this

Arizona Title Odds: 19-4

Cool. Let's do this!

azcat49 wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698 ... g-national

Think we might like this

"Arizona has looked like the best team in the country since getting Allonzo Trier back on the floor Jan. 21."

Unfortunately, it's typical bleacher report garbage.

threenumberones wrote:

azcat49 wrote:http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2698 ... g-national

Think we might like this

"Arizona has looked like the best team in the country since getting Allonzo Trier back on the floor Jan. 21."

Unfortunately, it's typical bleacher report garbage.

That was my thought. The person who wrote the article obviously hasn't followed the Cats. And no mention of Alkins' importance to the team? I found the analysis lacking.

BTW, of all the games I've seen I think that Kansas is playing the best ball right now.

I formally request anyone who knows how these next two rounds go down to please come forward and report here.

Longhorned wrote:I formally request anyone who knows how these next two rounds go down to please come forward and report here.

If history is a judge, we lose a heartbreaker short of a Final Four.

All I know is that with Nova losing, our 20 year dream of beating 3 #1 seeds again is over

There's always next year

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:I formally request anyone who knows how these next two rounds go down to please come forward and report here.

If history is a judge, we lose a heartbreaker short of a Final Four.

And if unpredictability is a judge? Hmmmmmm?

Longhorned wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:I formally request anyone who knows how these next two rounds go down to please come forward and report here.

If history is a judge, we lose a heartbreaker short of a Final Four.

And if unpredictability is a judge? Hmmmmmm?

Would any of us still follow sports if teams didn't break with history?

Cleveland, the Cubs, the Red Sox. No one knows the future. Maybe we follow history, maybe we don't. There's only one way to find out.

Yeah but it's only Tuesday. Maybe I'll see how many bags of chips I can eat in a day.

Longhorned wrote:Yeah but it's only Tuesday. Maybe I'll see how many bags of chips I can eat in a day.

We need a good time killer thread until Thursday. Maybe "Rank your top 5 players in the Miller era," "Top 3 Sean Miller ties" or "Top 100 depressing facts about ASU basketball."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2699 ... =editorial" target="_blank

We have 2 players in the top 20! Trier squeaked in at 20th.

I hope nobody is taking Xavier lightly.

Olsondogg wrote:I hope nobody is taking Xavier lightly.

I can't imagine a Miller-coached team taking Xavier lightly. I'd vote Xavier Least Likely to be Taken Lightly.

Longhorned wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I hope nobody is taking Xavier lightly.

I can't imagine a Miller-coached team taking Xavier lightly. I'd vote Xavier Least Likely to be Taken Lightly.

I can't imagine taking a tourney game lightly, particularly in the Sweet 16.

I expect a game very similar to our game with Butler. There is no way I am taking Xavier lightly.

Head coach record in the S16:

Beilein 3-1 // Altman 1-1
Huggins 4-3 // Few 1-5
Painter 0-2 // Self 8-3
Mack 0-3 // Miller 4-2
Holtman 0-0 // Williams 12-5
Martin 1-0 // Drew 2-1
Alford 0-3 // Calipari 11-2
Gard 0-1 // White 0-0

Based on head coaches I got

Michigan
WVU
Kansas
Arizona
North Carolina
???? -- is Scott Drew a good coach?
Kentucky
????

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... ting-guide" target="_blank

I feel disrespected by this article. Gonzaga is a good program, but to class us and them as bridesmaids when we have 4 final fours and 1 national championship and they have none of either...

Dave wrote:I expect a game very similar to our game with Butler. There is no way I am taking Xavier lightly.

At least Xavier won't wait until the final possession to throw a zone at us.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... ting-guide

I feel disrespected by this article. Gonzaga is a good program, but to class us and them as bridesmaids when we have 4 final fours and 1 national championship and they have none of either...

This whole article was a steaming pile. I read it earlier and had the same reaction. And that was literally the only mention...

im starting to hate everyone on the planet, and it's happening a day earlier than normal.

usually it happens 24 hours before the second weekend begins when AZ is in the Sweet 16.

fuck all u ho's!!!

Everybody stay clam.

Keep calm, Savage on

KaibabKat wrote:Everybody stay clam.

Are you saying that I'm dropping pearls of wisdom? I agree with that.

Olsondogg wrote:I hope nobody is taking Xavier lightly.

I honestly believe that Miller/Arizona learned a little lesson two years ago about taking Xavier lightly.

bear down. Will be cheering my ass off for the Zags. WVU: Do Not Want.

UofAlum05 wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I hope nobody is taking Xavier lightly.

I honestly believe that Miller/Arizona learned a little lesson two years ago about taking Xavier lightly.

Moreso talking about fans around here. I have some friends that are saying "blowout" and while I hope for this, I know my butthole will be clamped up the whole game.

Olsondogg wrote:

UofAlum05 wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:I hope nobody is taking Xavier lightly.

I honestly believe that Miller/Arizona learned a little lesson two years ago about taking Xavier lightly.

Moreso talking about fans around here. I have some friends that are saying "blowout" and while I hope for this, I know my butthole will be clamped up the whole game.

I have no idea why anyone would take a Sweet 16 game lightly at any point. I'll be confident against Xavier when the game is over and we've won.

We're projected as 4pt winners by Kenpom. 7.5 points by Massey. That's a close game no matter what the seeds say.

My stomach won't un-knot itself until we're done.