Bear Down Wildcats

I definitely think he can play in the NBA, but, from what we know of him so far, he's not ready.

You cant go into the NBA as a smallish (average size, short wingspan) SG, without the ability to play PG, pass the ball, or be a solid defender. He knows he has to show off an improved vision and handle, but also improvement as a defender.

To be honest, I think he can be a pretty well rounded player, with the added ability of being able to create his own shot and draw fouls. I just dont think he's ready yet, and sitting out half a year certainly isnt helping his case.

Trier's not a lottery pick unless he grows. NBA drafts on potential, and IMO Trier's game is already pretty polished, so the upsides aren't obvious to see. I think he'll end up a solid contributor on an NBA roster, but remember that we've had guys with more athleticism, more upside, and better stats than Trier who haven't managed to stick in the NBA (Nick Johnson recently).

Nick Johnson had his opportunity but couldn't knock down the shots. I don't see that being an issue at all with Trier when the time comes. I wouldn't say Nick Johnson had more upside than Trier though, and offensively, junior Nick Johnson and freshman Trier were pretty even.

TucsonClip wrote:I definitely think he can play in the NBA, but, from what we know of him so far, he's not ready.

You cant go into the NBA as a smallish (average size, short wingspan) SG, without the ability to play PG, pass the ball, or be a solid defender. He knows he has to show off an improved vision and handle, but also improvement as a defender.

To be honest, I think he can be a pretty well rounded player, with the added ability of being able to create his own shot and draw fouls. I just dont think he's ready yet, and sitting out half a year certainly isnt helping his case.

Yes. Didn't Miller mention way back in October that Trier had an absurdly (my word) low number of assists? That's precisely what he needs to show. The new NBA does not like the ball "sticking" anywhere on offense. Make a move or keep the ball moving. Trier had a "sticky" tendency last year.

rgdeuce wrote:Nick Johnson had his opportunity but couldn't knock down the shots. I don't see that being an issue at all with Trier when the time comes. I wouldn't say Nick Johnson had more upside than Trier though, and offensively, junior Nick Johnson and freshman Trier were pretty even.

Athleticism and defense are what Johnson had in spades, and his offense was improving significantly each year he'd been at UA. Trier's already at that level offensively as you say, but I don't see him being able to improve as much as NJ could for that very reason. Questions I have about Trier are 1) can he create his own shot against NBA twos? 2) can he improve his defense to the point where he can guard an NBA 2?

Most 2's in the NBA are going to be better athletes than Trier I think.

Good point about NJ not being able to knock down the shots though. Shame.

Just wanted to let everyone know got to watch Bowen play in person and he's really , really good.

Guys like Duval, PJ Washington, etc were at this tourney and Bowen looked like the most impressive player I saw for day 1 of the tourney. Lalumiere as a team was impressive and watching them play Findlay tomorrow should be a treat.

Bowen is an ACTIVE body at 6'7" who is legit that height, not including his ridiculous obj haircut. He's a lot like Aaron Gordon in his quick bounce enables him to tip the ball to himself a lot to get 50/50 rebounds on 2nd jumps. Now he can't get up anywhere near as high as Gordon could but he's really quick on his second jump. He's got a smooth jumper off the dribble , has a nice stepback, and a pretty automatic 3 Pt shot when he sets his feet. He's not afraid to mix it up and has a pretty complete offensive game.

He drifts on D some but what top 50 kid doesn't. He will have spurts where he decides to lock down and his lateral athletic ability along w his length and bounce gives him a high ceiling on D. And u know Miller will get him focused on D.

I was actually sort of meh on this kid based on our likely team next year and frankly his mix tapes were nothing I haven't seen before.

After seeing him in person I changed my mind. His top 20 ranking is legit and I want this kid. He's a better all around player than Ferguson was as a senior at the college level. I think Ferg had a higher ceiling as a 3 and D guy because Bowen isn't quite the shooter or vertical athlete aferfuson was , but he's better attacking the basket and a little thicker than Ferg (still a little skinny) and he seems tougher. And this is having seen Ferguson almost will his team to a ridiculous come from behind win v Whitney young when they were loaded w Okafor and Paul White as a sophomore in this same tourney in one of the most impressive performances I have ever seen in this tourney. This tourney has had some amazing performances over the years though. Jabari Parker v Wiggins comes to mind as well.

I'm on board, we need BB, he's legit.

Thanks PZ for the scouting report! Great stuff.

Does BB have any further visits planned, or is it a waiting game at this point?

PennZona20 wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know got to watch Bowen play in person and he's really , really good.

Guys like Duval, PJ Washington, etc were at this tourney and Bowen looked like the most impressive player I saw for day 1 of the tourney. Lalumiere as a team was impressive and watching them play Findlay tomorrow should be a treat.

Bowen is an ACTIVE body at 6'7" who is legit that height, not including his ridiculous obj haircut. He's a lot like Aaron Gordon in his quick bounce enables him to tip the ball to himself a lot to get 50/50 rebounds on 2nd jumps. Now he can't get up anywhere near as high as Gordon could but he's really quick on his second jump. He's got a smooth jumper off the dribble , has a nice stepback, and a pretty automatic 3 Pt shot when he sets his feet. He's not afraid to mix it up and has a pretty complete offensive game.

He drifts on D some but what top 50 kid doesn't. He will have spurts where he decides to lock down and his lateral athletic ability along w his length and bounce gives him a high ceiling on D. And u know Miller will get him focused on D.

I was actually sort of meh on this kid based on our likely team next year and frankly his mix tapes were nothing I haven't seen before.

After seeing him in person I changed my mind. His top 20 ranking is legit and I want this kid. He's a better all around player than Ferguson was as a senior at the college level. I think Ferg had a higher ceiling as a 3 and D guy because Bowen isn't quite the shooter or vertical athlete aferfuson was , but he's better attacking the basket and a little thicker than Ferg (still a little skinny) and he seems tougher. And this is having seen Ferguson almost will his team to a ridiculous come from behind win v Whitney young when they were loaded w Okafor and Paul White as a sophomore in this same tourney in one of the most impressive performances I have ever seen in this tourney. This tourney has had some amazing performances over the years though. Jabari Parker v Wiggins comes to mind as well.

I'm on board, we need BB, he's legit.

Yeah, PZ--thanks!

So great to hear you saying he's lot's more than his tapes. I thought his tapes were showing terrific potential(but of course they're tapes). Sweet court vision and passing, very effective handles for a legit 6/7 Wing---complete with funky hesis whenever he's over the ball, an okay shot mechanics. Athleticism all over the place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqenoGnuV0c" target="_blank

Now you're say'n his tapes don't do him justice? Love it. Thanks again, Penn. Great work.

Gotta get BB!

EOCT wrote:

PennZona20 wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know got to watch Bowen play in person and he's really , really good.

Guys like Duval, PJ Washington, etc were at this tourney and Bowen looked like the most impressive player I saw for day 1 of the tourney. Lalumiere as a team was impressive and watching them play Findlay tomorrow should be a treat.

Bowen is an ACTIVE body at 6'7" who is legit that height, not including his ridiculous obj haircut. He's a lot like Aaron Gordon in his quick bounce enables him to tip the ball to himself a lot to get 50/50 rebounds on 2nd jumps. Now he can't get up anywhere near as high as Gordon could but he's really quick on his second jump. He's got a smooth jumper off the dribble , has a nice stepback, and a pretty automatic 3 Pt shot when he sets his feet. He's not afraid to mix it up and has a pretty complete offensive game.

He drifts on D some but what top 50 kid doesn't. He will have spurts where he decides to lock down and his lateral athletic ability along w his length and bounce gives him a high ceiling on D. And u know Miller will get him focused on D.

I was actually sort of meh on this kid based on our likely team next year and frankly his mix tapes were nothing I haven't seen before.

After seeing him in person I changed my mind. His top 20 ranking is legit and I want this kid. He's a better all around player than Ferguson was as a senior at the college level. I think Ferg had a higher ceiling as a 3 and D guy because Bowen isn't quite the shooter or vertical athlete aferfuson was , but he's better attacking the basket and a little thicker than Ferg (still a little skinny) and he seems tougher. And this is having seen Ferguson almost will his team to a ridiculous come from behind win v Whitney young when they were loaded w Okafor and Paul White as a sophomore in this same tourney in one of the most impressive performances I have ever seen in this tourney. This tourney has had some amazing performances over the years though. Jabari Parker v Wiggins comes to mind as well.

I'm on board, we need BB, he's legit.

Yeah, PZ--thanks!

So great to hear you saying he's lot's more than his tapes. I thought his tapes were showing terrific potential(but of course they're tapes). Sweet court vision and passing, very effective handles for a legit 6/7 Wing---complete with funky hesis whenever he's over the ball, and okay shot mechanics. Athleticism all over the place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqenoGnuV0c" target="_blank

Now you're say'n his tapes don't do him justice? Love it. Thanks again, Penn. Great work.

Stoked! Gotta get BB!

Beachcat97 wrote:Does BB have any further visits planned, or is it a waiting game at this point?

No more visits planned as of yet. Honestly it looks like Creighton is ahead at this point too.

Creighton?

Why?

CalStateTempe wrote:Creighton?

Why?

Why Miami for Lonnie Walker? Recruiting is weird.

Think about it. At Miami, LW is in many ways bigger than the program itself. Same with BB at Creighton. I can understand the appeal of being a super-hyped freshman at a program of more modest standing. AZ is bigger than any one player, even Ayton. So guys who come here not only understand this but are drawn to it; they're drawn to being part of a great tradition and having a chance to win a national title.

EOCT wrote:

PennZona20 wrote:Just wanted to let everyone know got to watch Bowen play in person and he's really , really good.

Guys like Duval, PJ Washington, etc were at this tourney and Bowen looked like the most impressive player I saw for day 1 of the tourney. Lalumiere as a team was impressive and watching them play Findlay tomorrow should be a treat.

Bowen is an ACTIVE body at 6'7" who is legit that height, not including his ridiculous obj haircut. He's a lot like Aaron Gordon in his quick bounce enables him to tip the ball to himself a lot to get 50/50 rebounds on 2nd jumps. Now he can't get up anywhere near as high as Gordon could but he's really quick on his second jump. He's got a smooth jumper off the dribble , has a nice stepback, and a pretty automatic 3 Pt shot when he sets his feet. He's not afraid to mix it up and has a pretty complete offensive game.

He drifts on D some but what top 50 kid doesn't. He will have spurts where he decides to lock down and his lateral athletic ability along w his length and bounce gives him a high ceiling on D. And u know Miller will get him focused on D.

I was actually sort of meh on this kid based on our likely team next year and frankly his mix tapes were nothing I haven't seen before.

After seeing him in person I changed my mind. His top 20 ranking is legit and I want this kid. He's a better all around player than Ferguson was as a senior at the college level. I think Ferg had a higher ceiling as a 3 and D guy because Bowen isn't quite the shooter or vertical athlete aferfuson was , but he's better attacking the basket and a little thicker than Ferg (still a little skinny) and he seems tougher. And this is having seen Ferguson almost will his team to a ridiculous come from behind win v Whitney young when they were loaded w Okafor and Paul White as a sophomore in this same tourney in one of the most impressive performances I have ever seen in this tourney. This tourney has had some amazing performances over the years though. Jabari Parker v Wiggins comes to mind as well.

I'm on board, we need BB, he's legit.

Yeah, PZ--thanks!

So great to hear you saying he's lot's more than his tapes. I thought his tapes were showing terrific potential(but of course they're tapes). Sweet court vision and passing, very effective handles for a legit 6/7 Wing---complete with funky hesis whenever he's over the ball, an okay shot mechanics. Athleticism all over the place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqenoGnuV0c" target="_blank

Now you're say'n his tapes don't do him justice? Love it. Thanks again, Penn. Great work.

Gotta get BB!

Don't get me wrong his mixtapes are great, but nothing that screamed "difference between title or final 4 or not" like Bamba , Ayton, okafor, tyus jones, KAT, Davis, etc.

It was a tape on par w or maybe a notch below Stanley and Ferguson .... impact player but unless we lose one of Trier, RA, or KS we didn't lose much without him. Now I have come around. We want this kid, he will be an impact on any team. He's a borderline top 10 player imo. And the type of mindset we love. Think RHJ w a more skilled offensive game and not anywhere near the D game. But every bit as active as RHJ was in about the same frame but skinnier.

Best part is he isn't a sure fire one and done. Will prob be much like RHJ in that he could stay for a second year but will probably be a OAD unless he wants to be lotto pick. If I had to guess without looking it up, he's probably slotted in the mid -20s in the 2018 draft.


As for the creighton thing , maybe he wants to be big fish in small pond instead of regular fish at a premiere program vying for a 'ship.

I get it ..... don't agree w thinking but some kids are wired differently. We will be fine regardless unless 2 of the 3 wings leave. But even if all 3 stay he's really good and we should be happy to have him. He would make any team that much better. Plus we don't really have any 6-7ish skilled guys like a Bridges / Brandon ingram / skill set. That disappeared along w Ray Smiths ACL.

Diallo to UK as expected

Also if I'm a wing recruit looking at Arizona, I see Rawle/Kobi/Dylan Smith/Randolph and hell maybe even Zo rethinks things due to having sat out so much time and those guys are all at the wing spots. Obviously still up for debate if all or even most of those guys return next year, but still something for any recruit to at least think about. Bowen is a good fit for Arizona and vice versa due to his size, offensive ability, and the need to be taught defense. Needless to say we could most definitely use him and he could use us and he's not an expected one and done talent.

Either way every recruit and their camps have their reasons, it's up to Arizona to convince him to come regardless of any things it may have working against it.

So is McCoy out of the picture now?

Hillcrest and Ayton play on ESPN in 30 minutes.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Hillcrest and Ayton play on ESPN in 30 minutes.

Facing Brandon Randolph too.

Randolph should be a five star IMO.

Randolph is def a stud. Don't think he makes it to his Junior year

After watching Ayton numerous times it's pretty crystal clear he would be at his absolute best with a Ristic type 5 man playing alongside him. *Fingers crossed* The guy just doesn't have a back to the basket game.

I love every thing about Brandon Randolph. There's seriously nothing not to love about him. I jokingly assign my wife a boyfriend on the team for her to root for (way to get her involved that she enjoys as a joke) and I told her while watching this game tonight that he is most definitely a future team boyfriend and it may be as soon as next year. That tidbit that his growth plates are still open and he could grow to be 6'8 was great info that I didn't know about. I posted earlier in this thread that I doubt this kid will make it past 2 years and pending on available PT next year he certainly could be a one and done and I wouldn't be surprised.

Randolph looked very good. Ayton has all the physical tools in the world, but mentally his motor and focus aren't always there.

RaisingArizona wrote:Randolph should be a five star IMO.

His offer list reads like one... UNC, KU, Louisville, IU, Syracuse.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Does BB have any further visits planned, or is it a waiting game at this point?

No more visits planned as of yet. Honestly it looks like Creighton is ahead at this point too.

We can always count on you for negative developments on the recruiting front.

Reading this Zagsblog piece on the Hoophall, and it is amazing how this writer speaks just the opposite of Beachcat's assurances that either Kobi or Rawle or both are gone this year...

Arizona could lose freshman power forward Lauri Markkanen (No. 8 on DraftExpress.com) and sophomore shooting guard Allonzo Trier (No. 56) to this year’s NBA Draft.Still, the site projects Arizona to have three picks in 2018 in Ayton (No. 1), freshman guard Kobi Simmons (No. 30) and freshman wing Rawle Alkins (No. 40).
Throw in Randolph, Lee and Barcello and that’s a pretty potent team.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2017/01/15/ariz ... nt-future/

Courtesy or Sparty back in this?

gumby wrote:Courtesy or Sparty back in this?

Got the fingers crossed.

PennZona, you get any more peeks at BB in person?

Thanks, Gumby!

Unfortunately no, had some stuff come up and missed his game v pj Washington and Findlay.

Watched his game at hoop hall on tv and although he looked good, I felt he was more active when I saw him in person. I think if we land him u are landing a prospect w some similarities to the guy we would have had last year if prime prep was an actual high school. Ferg a better athlete and slightly better shooter, but BB a better all around offensive game, better rebounder, and more skilled offensively overall.

I think Bowen may be a better instant impact frosh than Ferg would have been, w Ferg having a higher ceiling like Zack Lavine when his talent matures into on court functionality.

I still want him really bad but it doesn't seem like we have momentum.

As long as we get either Trier back or BB I'm cool w it.

PJC
Simmons
Trier/BB
Ayton
Dusan

Rawle
Randolph
Ira
barcello
Chance
D Smith
Pinder

That's the likely squad next year. That's 12 ships and 13 if Trier stays and BB commits. Obv one of Trier, LM, and BB have to not come to have room , but considering LM is the 8th prospect right now and he's prob 95% gone, I think it's safe to say he's gone.

But indulge this fantasy lineup for just a second :

PG: PJC / Simmons
SG: Trier
SF: Lauri
pF : Ayton
C: Dusan

And then a bench of randolph , Simmons, alkins and the rest of guys I mentioned.

gumby wrote:Courtesy or Sparty back in this?

Honestly this visit is so random, I don't know what to think of it.

I'd rather have Trier as a junior than BB as a freshman.

ChooChooCat wrote:

gumby wrote:Courtesy or Sparty back in this?

Honestly this visit is so random, I don't know what to think of it.

I think he wants to see a rivalry game for free.

Chicat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

gumby wrote:Courtesy or Sparty back in this?

Honestly this visit is so random, I don't know what to think of it.

I think he wants to see a rivalry game for free.

He's taking an unofficial for that game though, which means he'd be the one paying. He refuses to take an official to MSU, but has unofficially visited them roughly 16382519 times, which is just one visit short of the all time record set by Justise Winslow and Arizona.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Chicat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

gumby wrote:Courtesy or Sparty back in this?

Honestly this visit is so random, I don't know what to think of it.

I think he wants to see a rivalry game for free.

He's taking an unofficial for that game though, which means he'd be the one paying. He refuses to take an official to MSU, but has unofficially visited them roughly 16382519 times, which is just one visit short of the all time record set by Justise Winslow and Arizona.

I think on unofficials they still get comped tix. Travel, hotel, meals have to be paid out of pocket but they can attend university events at no charge.

New rankings out, Ayton no longer #1

1
Michael Porter Jr.
2
DeAndre Ayton
3
Wendell Carter
4
Trevon Duval
5
Mohamed Bamba
6
Brandon McCoy
7
Kevfin Knox
8
Gary Trent Jr
9
Mitchell Robinson
10
Collin Sexton
12
Brian Bowen
34
Brandon Randolph
67
Ira Lee
94
Alex Barcello

ESPN has AZ with the 4th best class, 247 3rd best class

It's Brian Bowen, not Brandon. All those rankings make a lot of sense, but I'm biased in regards to Randolph and think he should be a top 25 guy.

On another note wouldn't it be something if Arizona could finish off its class with the #4 and #12 ranked players?

Take out Fultz, sub in Porter. How's that working for them?

gumby wrote:Take out Fultz, sub in Porter. How's that working for them?

Maybe NIT? Or not.....most likely not the NCAA Tourney yet again and then they probably finally fire Romar IMHO.

Chicat wrote:

That would be nice.

I hope so. Need all the bodies we can get if we're losing Allen, Trier, Markkanen and maybe one of Alkins or Simmons.

Chicat wrote:

January is a great time to visit Michigan and see how miserable it is outside.

been cold in az the last few weeks. going to be 70-75 and sunny all next week though

I have a hard time believing a guy is going to take an official visit to his hometown school that he's been to 163926293627 times already before he makes a decision and doesn't leave without a commitment. I know he may be telling the Arizona coaches differently at the moment, but you don't give your hometown school one more chance without going into that visit ready to be flipped.

ChooChooCat wrote:I have a hard time believing a guy is going to take an official visit to his hometown school that he's been to 163926293627 times already before he makes a decision and doesn't leave without a commitment. I know he may be telling the Arizona coaches differently at the moment, but you don't give your hometown school one more chance without going into that visit ready to be flipped.

Choo you've never really been all that positive on Bowen to UA. Care to explain why the pessimism? I think this team is in such a great spot we are Final 4 caliber with or without him as long as we only lose LM and one of the 3 combo guards.

looking at @PennZona20 's lineup, are there any worries that chance checks out after the season? or that dusan makes like k-real for his senior season?

dunno where CC's head is at but i wonder if he'll want to compete for minutes, esp if the coaching staff adds another big to the '17 recruiting class (are they looking to do so?). his development is on a good path but i seem to recall CSM and others mention chance's frustration in -- or rather, the process of learning -- how to contribute & play at this level. at least he'll have a RS option if it comes to that.

ChooChooCat wrote:I have a hard time believing a guy is going to take an official visit to his hometown school that he's been to 163926293627 times already before he makes a decision and doesn't leave without a commitment. I know he may be telling the Arizona coaches differently at the moment, but you don't give your hometown school one more chance without going into that visit ready to be flipped.

I think it's an unofficial. Not sure if that changes your feeling.

Gershon and Scheer have pretty much said without coming out and saying it that he's coming. So unless MSU pulls off a hell of a hail mary or just brings out the duffel bag I think we got him

Chicat wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:I have a hard time believing a guy is going to take an official visit to his hometown school that he's been to 163926293627 times already before he makes a decision and doesn't leave without a commitment. I know he may be telling the Arizona coaches differently at the moment, but you don't give your hometown school one more chance without going into that visit ready to be flipped.

I think it's an unofficial. Not sure if that changes your feeling.

It's been changed to an official.