PHXCATS wrote:Culture problem? Is the environment really that bad that kids will leave when they likely shouldn't? Or has Miller recruited the kids with poor decision making?
Something is definitely going on. Hopefully this is enough of a shock for Miller to take a hard look at how things could evolve.
It's a domino effect with a bunch of 18- and 19-year-olds guys. Nothing more, nothing less. This generation is instant gratification, materialistic, very impressionable, and have short attention spans. Some more so than others, but those are traits they have been socialized with, it is what it is. You see your buddies and teammates jetting, you see what is out there and how much money could be made, you take the leap. Rawle sees himself better than Kobi (he was) and goes, shit, I want a piece of that and if Kobi can do it, I sure as hell can.
Yup...this happened in 2001 as well. Everyone left, and Jason Gardner really, really, seriously considered, and may have even entered without an agent and did that whole thing, knowing full well he was not draft material. Michael Wright got caught up in that insanity...he ended up eeking out a good living, and he wasn't going to suddenly be able to jump over a deck of cards, but that was still an era where players only left early if they were going to get NBA guarantees. When Loren Woods and RJ and then even sophomore Gilbert Arenas declared, there was definitely a sense of "I play with that guy everyday...if he is good enough, I am good enough."
Think of any social situation where you are young and around alpha types who are all going to do something big. You start to figure out how you might be able to join in if it is something cool...and declaring for the NBA draft certainly has a cache among other people their age. It isn't logical or rational...but it definitely happens.
Sorry but I dont buy it. If it happens once I would buy it but it happens at Arizona more often than other Tier 1 and Tier 2 schools except Kentucky and all those guys get drafted unlike Arizona guys and perform well in the association.
You say ALL and then someone points out how wrong you are and you resort back to the gross overstatements in your next post. Hyperbole much.
This year 162 NCAA and international players tested the nba draft. I guess they're all from Arizona.
PHXCATS wrote:Culture problem? Is the environment really that bad that kids will leave when they likely shouldn't? Or has Miller recruited the kids with poor decision making?
Something is definitely going on. Hopefully this is enough of a shock for Miller to take a hard look at how things could evolve.
It's a domino effect with a bunch of 18- and 19-year-olds guys. Nothing more, nothing less. This generation is instant gratification, materialistic, very impressionable, and have short attention spans. Some more so than others, but those are traits they have been socialized with, it is what it is. You see your buddies and teammates jetting, you see what is out there and how much money could be made, you take the leap. Rawle sees himself better than Kobi (he was) and goes, shit, I want a piece of that and if Kobi can do it, I sure as hell can.
Yup...this happened in 2001 as well. Everyone left, and Jason Gardner really, really, seriously considered, and may have even entered without an agent and did that whole thing, knowing full well he was not draft material. Michael Wright got caught up in that insanity...he ended up eeking out a good living, and he wasn't going to suddenly be able to jump over a deck of cards, but that was still an era where players only left early if they were going to get NBA guarantees. When Loren Woods and RJ and then even sophomore Gilbert Arenas declared, there was definitely a sense of "I play with that guy everyday...if he is good enough, I am good enough."
Think of any social situation where you are young and around alpha types who are all going to do something big. You start to figure out how you might be able to join in if it is something cool...and declaring for the NBA draft certainly has a cache among other people their age. It isn't logical or rational...but it definitely happens.
Sorry but I dont buy it. If it happens once I would buy it but it happens at Arizona more often than other Tier 1 and Tier 2 schools except Kentucky and all those guys get drafted unlike Arizona guys and perform well in the association.
Data, please. How did you quantify this? Top of the head? Looked it up?
EVCat wrote:Then what is your explanation? I'm not sure what there is to "buy" here.
I would say if you actually pulled the lens back and looked at every program and the level of ranking the players entered the program at and used that to compare apples to apples, we are no different. We just ignore when a Zeus, who was expected to be a short timer, stays 4, or BASH, expected to possibly be a one and done, stays 3. We only pay attention to the losses.
And at this point, we have only lost one player who could have come back and played (Lauri) and he is a lottery pick. Kobi was transferring or leaving...he wasn't coming back as an elite recruit with some pro basketball buzz to play 5 minutes a game.
Zues hasnt done anything in the association nor has Nick Johnson or Grant Jerrett or Brandon Ashley. The entire 2011 class left early and no one has done anything in the nba worth noting.
If you have guys leaving early who do well in the nba thats awesome. When guys leave early and dont that is really bad.
I am hoping bringing in Romar helps with the culture issues with Arizona Basketball.
Stop. Plenty of guys from other schools leave early and don't see NBA success. Kentucky is supposedly the NBA factory. Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Marcus Lee, Kyle Wiltjer, those guys left either for another school or for the draft and have seen limited or no NBA success.
Heck, Duke has guys like Jeter and Thornton flaming out and leaving in the last two years. The complete lack of perspective vs other powers is crazy to me. Just being a top 20 recruit is not an automatic ticket.
It happens more at Arizona and Arizona has less success than those schools and those schools have FAR more NBA success.
But you are right, with all our final fours and national titles and nba super stars under Miller no reason to be concerned.
Look, I've posted plenty about the history of Miller's tenure here, and how significantly the tournament results have exceeded expectations. I don't really think repeating that for you will do anything.
Take your shots at Miller. It isn't like they're based in reality.
EVCat wrote:Then what is your explanation? I'm not sure what there is to "buy" here.
I would say if you actually pulled the lens back and looked at every program and the level of ranking the players entered the program at and used that to compare apples to apples, we are no different. We just ignore when a Zeus, who was expected to be a short timer, stays 4, or BASH, expected to possibly be a one and done, stays 3. We only pay attention to the losses.
And at this point, we have only lost one player who could have come back and played (Lauri) and he is a lottery pick. Kobi was transferring or leaving...he wasn't coming back as an elite recruit with some pro basketball buzz to play 5 minutes a game.
Zues hasnt done anything in the association nor has Nick Johnson or Grant Jerrett or Brandon Ashley. The entire 2011 class left early and no one has done anything in the nba worth noting.
If you have guys leaving early who do well in the nba thats awesome. When guys leave early and dont that is really bad.
I am hoping bringing in Romar helps with the culture issues with Arizona Basketball.
Stop. Plenty of guys from other schools leave early and don't see NBA success. Kentucky is supposedly the NBA factory. Dakari Johnson, Aaron Harrison, Marquis Teague, Doron Lamb, Marcus Lee, Kyle Wiltjer, those guys left either for another school or for the draft and have seen limited or no NBA success.
Heck, Duke has guys like Jeter and Thornton flaming out and leaving in the last two years. The complete lack of perspective vs other powers is crazy to me. Just being a top 20 recruit is not an automatic ticket.
It happens more at Arizona and Arizona has less success than those schools and those schools have FAR more NBA success.
But you are right, with all our final fours and national titles and nba super stars under Miller no reason to be concerned.
Look, I've posted plenty about the history of Miller's tenure here, and how significantly the tournament results have exceeded expectations. I don't really think repeating that for you will do anything.
Take your shots at Miller. It isn't like they're based in reality.
Will just have to agree to disagree about expectations.
And for the record I am not taking shots at Miller. I wouldnt trade him for anyone when factoring in age (would rather have Roy or K for a year or so but not for the the future beyond a few years). I just believe that some changes need to be made to get Arizona to the next level of success. Miller has been a good guy the few times I have met him and I think the players love him (see UCLA time out and Lauri presser as recent examples) so please don't take my posts as bashing but more so as a cause for concern.
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Spaceman Spiff wrote:Arizona has a culture problem we need Romar to fix.
I'm not taking shots at Miller.
Sorry, I just don't see how these two statements coexist.
I did not say the top line.
I will admit I was wrong on the comparison to the top schools but I do consider 4 people leaving ear in one off season, 2 or 3 of which will likely go undrafted at the current projections, to be a culture issue. If that is recruiting or day to day in season or schooling or what I am not sure, but this is not optimal for the highest level of success.
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But I think it is life with top 5 recruiting classes. And there may be a "culture" impact, but that is a positive culture that allows us to get these players. I think, as a program, we are much more open about our ties through former players to the NBA...we have the achievement of $1 billion earned painted on the walls in McKale. We are "A Player's Program"....we try to win, but we also openly recruit players with an eye to their NBA futures. So maybe we do lose a couple more than a blueblood that has Michael Jordan telling kids playing for the Tar Heels is an honor, etc. But that culture...we are identified as a program that prepares for the NBA and gets players to the next level...is why we recruit so well. And so, sometimes, kids leave. I think we encourage anyone who should leave to do so, which may be different from some programs.
To sum all that up, I think we are more transparent about the process and the goal for many of these players (it isn't graduating)...so maybe our players do leave a little earlier. There may be some connection, but that culture is why we are successful
As for the transfers...we had a major upheaval, and that led to some cracked eggs (Sidiki, Josiah). And we have had players who are not playing transfer. But who has transferred that would have seen significant minutes here? Maybe Craig Victor...maybe? if bench players leave, that isn't indicative of a problem...that means our rotation is too tough to crack. That is good.
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Arizona has a culture problem we need Romar to fix.
I'm not taking shots at Miller.
Sorry, I just don't see how these two statements coexist.
I did not say the top line.
I will admit I was wrong on the comparison to the top schools but I do consider 4 people leaving ear in one off season, 2 or 3 of which will likely go undrafted at the current projections, to be a culture issue. If that is recruiting or day to day in season or schooling or what I am not sure, but this is not optimal for the highest level of success.
The exact quote is that you hope Romar helps "with the culture issues."
I think the need for help clearly implies there is a problem, but if you don't like the paraphrase, sorry. I'd wait until the dust settles on the pro situation. Right now, the only people for sure gone are projected picks in DX. The remainder with Rawle and Chance will be seen.
PHXCATS wrote:
I will admit I was wrong on the comparison to the top schools but I do consider 4 people leaving ear in one off season, 2 or 3 of which will likely go undrafted at the current projections, to be a culture issue. If that is recruiting or day to day in season or schooling or what I am not sure, but this is not optimal for the highest level of success.
4 people leaving, huh?
So if my count is correct, you mean:
1) Pasternack
2) Kadeem
3) Lauri
4) Kobi
I think your assessment is way off. I think Pasternack is likely to get drafted. So with Kadeem that's only 1 who is unlikely to get to the NBA. Hence, you're a moron.
PHXCATS wrote:
I will admit I was wrong on the comparison to the top schools but I do consider 4 people leaving ear in one off season, 2 or 3 of which will likely go undrafted at the current projections, to be a culture issue. If that is recruiting or day to day in season or schooling or what I am not sure, but this is not optimal for the highest level of success.
4 people leaving, huh?
So if my count is correct, you mean:
1) Pasternack
2) Kadeem
3) Lauri
4) Kobi
I think your assessment is way off. I think Pasternack is likely to get drafted. So with Kadeem that's only 1 who is unlikely to get to the NBA. Hence, you're a moron.
Lauri
Kobi
Chance
Rawle
For now
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c'mon...you know they have a free evaluation that costs them nothing by doing that and not signing with an agent. That isn't totally intellectually honest. They are, at this point, doing no more than exercising a clause that allows them to test the waters, get professional eval, then return to school if they are not ready for the NBA.
Lauri's move is disappointing but understandable with the NBA screwing over college hoops these days...he's a lotto pick. Kobi is really disappointing as he seemed like a good team player and good attitude but very mercenary in jumping into this deep draft after only one year and much needed development sorely lacking....while disappointing, his decision was no surprise...not a wise decision but then again he doesn't have much of an education yet to make smart decisions.
BUT if Rawle and Chance both leave school next year I'm going to have some very harsh feelings towards both.
I fully support their testing the waters, getting invaluable NBA feedback this extremely deep draft year but if they end up foolishly jumping early then......not even going to say what I feel at this time......
Hope they both Bear Down and make some wise decisions in the days ahead.
I'm sure he would think something was probable then too.
Look, the analysis market works like this: analysts sell the idea that a decision has already been secretly made, and they have inside access to it. Thus, we need to wait for the nuggets of truth to spill forth. If an analyst says "he might stay, he might go. Things just aren't 100% and we'll probably have to wait and find out." very few people would pay for that analysis.
182 players declared early. Most aren't set on a decision.
Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
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PHXCATS wrote:Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
I said 182 players declared early for that reason. The idea that early entries are a big issues...well, college ball has a ton of early entries. Getting stressed about people testing the waters before they actually go and inferring issues from that is a bit out there for me.
PHXCATS wrote:Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
The insiders said Nick was coming back. The insiders said Stanley and Aaron were actually considering returning (Stanley had the toughest of the two in deciding, but he was always working against his knowledge that he could not come back reasonably and that was played up for subscriptions. No matter what people want to say, there was never a moment he almost came back. Just a lot of moments his heart told him to say he wanted to).
Just let it happen. These kids are exuberant...they just declared for the draft. They are telling everyone "oh, yeah...I am serious". Of course they are. But when the information comes back, they will have a tough decision, because one will be undrafted and the other will have a harder road ahead than he may want to take knowing he could actually be a 1st rounder in a year. All the "INSIDERS" hear is what the players want them to...
PHXCATS wrote:Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
I said 182 players declared early for that reason. The idea that early entries are a big issues...well, college ball has a ton of early entries. Getting stressed about people testing the waters before they actually go and inferring issues from that is a bit out there for me.
The process will unfold.
Because insiders are saying they are gone and no one has then as first rounders.
If the insiders were saying things like with Trier before it would be totally different. They are saying they think they are gone when they will in all likelihood be undrafted or late second rounders. They are not saying they will probably come back and just want the evaluation unless they project to be first rounders.
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again...the "Insiders" know whatever the kids are saying today. Nothing more. You can read message boards alone and guess and be right a good percentage of the time. When you start getting that extra layer, our "insiders", they are all, to varying degrees, based on sources around the player. And if the player is saying "I am in", that is what will be said. They aren't going to say "I am coming back...this is all a waste of my time." They all hope to ball out at a combine or personal workout and shock the world. They have to be all in right now. But all the "insiders" know is what the kid is saying right this second. They can't know more. Either they have a source directly with the kid (unlikely), or a layer away (more likely). And you have an emotional decision with a 19 year old...he can be saying "oh, for sure, definitely...I am in" right now and have a completely different view when it becomes clear his workouts didn't matter and he is still UDFA or laate 2nd..
PHXCAT will interpret whatever happens as a culture problem, though no insiders have confirmed this. Whatever happens will feed the theory. That's how his mind works, according to insiders.
Furthermore, the coach should not be implicated, but, hopefully, the new assistant coach can do something about this problem -- unconfirmed -- that the coach isn't responsible for.
It's all very simple, people. If this board didn't have a culture problem, the clouds would lift and the truth would be revealed.
PHXCATS wrote:Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
I said 182 players declared early for that reason. The idea that early entries are a big issues...well, college ball has a ton of early entries. Getting stressed about people testing the waters before they actually go and inferring issues from that is a bit out there for me.
The process will unfold.
Because insiders are saying they are gone and no one has then as first rounders.
If the insiders were saying things like with Trier before it would be totally different. They are saying they think they are gone when they will in all likelihood be undrafted or late second rounders. They are not saying they will probably come back and just want the evaluation unless they project to be first rounders.
What if the insiders are actually ASU operatives trying to destabilize Arizona basketball's hold on the Arcadia Tavern by sowing seeds of doubt?
THE PROCESS WILL UNFOLD. A crazy number of kids declared. Instead of pooping our pants over what it might mean if insiders are right or wrong, let it happen, see what transpires and reach conclusions based on that. No one (I assume) has a gun to your head and is forcing you to pass judgment at this instant.
PHXCATS wrote:Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
I said 182 players declared early for that reason. The idea that early entries are a big issues...well, college ball has a ton of early entries. Getting stressed about people testing the waters before they actually go and inferring issues from that is a bit out there for me.
The process will unfold.
Because insiders are saying they are gone and no one has then as first rounders.
If the insiders were saying things like with Trier before it would be totally different. They are saying they think they are gone when they will in all likelihood be undrafted or late second rounders. They are not saying they will probably come back and just want the evaluation unless they project to be first rounders.
What if the insiders are actually ASU operatives trying to destabilize Arizona basketball's hold on the Arcadia Tavern by sowing seeds of doubt?
THE PROCESS WILL UNFOLD. A crazy number of kids declared. Instead of pooping our pants over what it might mean if insiders are right or wrong, let it happen, see what transpires and reach conclusions based on that. No one (I assume) has a gun to your head and is forcing you to pass judgment at this instant.
Oooh. A virtual curtain of distraction, with a Russian twist. An Iron Curtain of Distraction.
PHXCATS wrote:Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
I said 182 players declared early for that reason. The idea that early entries are a big issues...well, college ball has a ton of early entries. Getting stressed about people testing the waters before they actually go and inferring issues from that is a bit out there for me.
The process will unfold.
Because insiders are saying they are gone and no one has then as first rounders.
If the insiders were saying things like with Trier before it would be totally different. They are saying they think they are gone when they will in all likelihood be undrafted or late second rounders. They are not saying they will probably come back and just want the evaluation unless they project to be first rounders.
What if the insiders are actually ASU operatives trying to destabilize Arizona basketball's hold on the Arcadia Tavern by sowing seeds of doubt?
THE PROCESS WILL UNFOLD. A crazy number of kids declared. Instead of pooping our pants over what it might mean if insiders are right or wrong, let it happen, see what transpires and reach conclusions based on that. No one (I assume) has a gun to your head and is forcing you to pass judgment at this instant.
Oooh. A virtual curtain of distraction, with a Russian twist. An Iron Curtain of Distraction.
Maybe it's just the pending sex assault allegations, but I've always felt Julian Assange was a natural ASU sympathizer.
Merkin wrote:Athletic Department has tutors, and every test on file. Apparently the Greeks do too.
I signed up for an Anthro 100 class that when I showed up was full of Greeks and athletes.
Class was maybe 1/3rd full after the first day.
Same with an astronomy class I took. Out of 100 seats in class, there was maybe 8 there on the first Friday. I never showed up Friday after that.
There are also "Student Brokers" who arrange for everything for a student, paid by mom and dad's dime. They sub-contract school work (papers, online classes, etc) to people who do that for a living. Really. Athletes very rarely are involved in this as most brokers/paper writers are not really into seeing their name on Sportscenter with half the team threatening their lives. But a number of Greeks and other well positioned students have used these services, with the really elite parents of fuck-ups paying $10s of thousands a semester to a broker to simply make sure their kid gets a degree and, oh...bail him out of jail occasionally.
Then there are the classes designed for this...I took a "History of Sports in Society" class where prof told us day one the lowest grade you could get in the class is a C. If you wrote the midterm paper, you got a B, then you could take the final and an 80% would combine with the paper (not graded) to give you an A. There was more than one athlete in that class. It was at 8 am in McKale. I came the first day, the day I turned in my paper for midterm, and the final...and got an A. Attended 3 times. There were people I saw the first day that I saw for the paper hand in class or the final, not both (take the B), or that never showed again (I doubt they dropped).
I also have known of students taking full online course loads while travelling. Log in for a live chat with the prof, turn in your paper, take the tests at a Kaplan, and you are good. My nephew got his Masters from USC in Aerospace Engineering without stepping foot on campus one single day.
Yeah, outside of the athletes who truly care about advancing with engineering, business (etc) degrees, most of these guys are set up with schedules by coaches/staff/advisors who know what courses to take and with what teachers. At both of my colleges, I sat down with the athletics dept advisor, he asked me a few questions, then boom, here is your schedule. My coach himself did ours one year. My gen eds were with teachers the advisor KNEW were athlete friendly or would flat out give athletes good grades as long as they weren't complete A-holes.
I had a professor who pulled me and three teammates aside on finals day and told us to bubble in whatever grade we wanted for the course on our ABCDE test bubble sheets and wait 20 minutes before turning it in. My intro to humanities professor was a baseball historian in his off time and I was always late to my next class because he was always stopping me to try to talk baseball or set me up with his daughter. Then you filled in your day with electives such as human sexuality and first aid (both with the volleyball coach). When I stopped playing and went to finish at Arizona, I had knocked out my gen-eds but was a little behind because of all the fluff I took. I laugh every time I put down Academic All American as one of my achievements on an employment resume, knowing damn well I didn't earn that shit.
I'll give an easy explanation without racking my brain and it may be probably pretty close to what is going on. Look at the top four schools, blue bloods. You know you are going into an absolutely loaded situation. UNC is at the top of the list because as we know, you get your degree from a fine institution that doesn't make their college BBall players do shit. Why leave? Kentucky has less than us because nearly every year, they have an insane amount of early entrants into the NBA. So what if you only played 10 MPG as a frosh, 7 guys just left and things are wide open. Duke is a fine institution and in most cases, the kids who go there are super intelligent and value a Duke diploma. Arizona and Louisville are generally thought of as the tier just below those programs above. You know you are going to a great school, but you also expect more playing time because they are NOT Duke, Kentucky, Kansas or UNC. When you get there and realize they are as talented as those teams and Pitino and Miller demand you play defense if you want to see the floor, you realize taking what you perceived to be the easier route really wasn't that, and you go somewhere easier.
I'll give an easy explanation without racking my brain and it may be probably pretty close to what is going on. Look at the top four schools, blue bloods. You know you are going into an absolutely loaded situation. UNC is at the top of the list because as we know, you get your degree from a fine institution that doesn't make their college BBall players do shit. Why leave? Kentucky has less than us because nearly every year, they have an insane amount of early entrants into the NBA. So what if you only played 10 MPG as a frosh, 7 guys just left and things are wide open. Duke is a fine institution and in most cases, the kids who go there are super intelligent and value a Duke diploma. Arizona and Louisville are generally thought of as the tier just below those programs above. You know you are going to a great school, but you also expect more playing time because they are NOT Duke, Kentucky, Kansas or UNC. When you get there and realize they are as talented as those teams and Pitino and Miller demand you play defense if you want to see the floor, you realize taking what you perceived to be the easier route really wasn't that, and you go somewhere easier.
I'll give another simple explanation. Kentucky is the only other school on that list that had a coaching change close to when Miller took over. There's a certain level of instability and transfers that tend to come with coaching change as well. The roster Miller took over (and even his first few recruiting classes) weren't really Miller's guys.
Time passes, Miller's guys come in, and the reasons to transfer change. Now it's less about a program that has moved on and more about playing time and players not panning out. At the beginning, though, we were straight up trying to recruit over Judkins, Shumpert, etc. and no one made any bones about it. Miller even recruited over Momo, Kyryl, Chol, etc. and it was pretty straightforward.
Thing is, you can only recruit over people when your recruiting is on the rise.
PHXCATS wrote:Yes but the two we are most concerned with are not first round projection and all insiders are saying they are likely gone. No insiders are saying they are likely coming back.
I do think it is a potential issues, I will say that at risk of sounding dumb again like yesterday, that three non projected first rounders are likely leaving early per insiders.
I said 182 players declared early for that reason. The idea that early entries are a big issues...well, college ball has a ton of early entries. Getting stressed about people testing the waters before they actually go and inferring issues from that is a bit out there for me.
The process will unfold.
By the way, 182 is an old number. Final number was 194 players declaring.
What some of you guys write about professors and athletes doesn't seem real. I teach a lot of football players, including some very recognizable ones, and I don't know why they keep taking my classes if there are fake classes taught by stooges of the athletics department. I have to report on the athletes' progress, and when they don't do well, a staff member gets on their asses immediately and helps me get them back on track. And I can see why other students in the class don't think the players are ever in my classes, but there's a transparent policy about alternative accommodations and alternative exams, and none of it is fake.
Longhorned wrote:What some of you guys write about professors and athletes doesn't seem real. I teach a lot of football players, including some very recognizable ones, and I don't know why they keep taking my classes if there are fake classes taught by stooges of the athletics department. I have to report on the athletes' progress, and when they don't do well, a staff member gets on their asses immediately and helps me get them back on track. And I can see why other students in the class don't think the players are ever in my classes, but there's a transparent policy about alternative accommodations and alternative exams, and none of it is fake.
Not everyone is looking for a free pass. There are athletes looking for an education.
But there are ways around it. And some, frankly, do a little of column A and B.
Longhorned wrote:What some of you guys write about professors and athletes doesn't seem real. I teach a lot of football players, including some very recognizable ones, and I don't know why they keep taking my classes if there are fake classes taught by stooges of the athletics department. I have to report on the athletes' progress, and when they don't do well, a staff member gets on their asses immediately and helps me get them back on track. And I can see why other students in the class don't think the players are ever in my classes, but there's a transparent policy about alternative accommodations and alternative exams, and none of it is fake.
Question: is that alternative policy available for all students or just athletics?
I had to negotiate with all me teachers at the time for 2weeks prior to the mcat, so I could spend every waking hour getting in game shape for a test that would determine if I could go to Med school or not? Most professors understood and let me handle my business independent of showing up, but a few were real dicks about to. Took the temp hit on my grades and stayed in the library anyway.
But what is the difference between someone playing ball trying to get to the league vs a student trying to get into their desired profession. Yes I know I'm not making money for the school at the moment in time.
Longhorned wrote:What some of you guys write about professors and athletes doesn't seem real. I teach a lot of football players, including some very recognizable ones, and I don't know why they keep taking my classes if there are fake classes taught by stooges of the athletics department. I have to report on the athletes' progress, and when they don't do well, a staff member gets on their asses immediately and helps me get them back on track. And I can see why other students in the class don't think the players are ever in my classes, but there's a transparent policy about alternative accommodations and alternative exams, and none of it is fake.
Question: is that alternative policy available for all students or just athletics?
I had to negotiate with all me teachers at the time for 2weeks prior to the mcat, so I could spend every waking hour getting in game shape for a test that would determine if I could go to Med school or not? Most professors understood and let me handle my business independent of showing up, but a few were real dicks about to. Took the temp hit on my grades and stayed in the library anyway.
But what is the difference between someone playing ball trying to get to the league vs a student trying to get into their desired profession. Yes I know I'm not making money for the school at the moment in time.
It's in the campus student code, with a separate article for student athletes. That's standard across public universities. You're referring to instructors who wouldn't budge on their own attendance policies. Basically, the student code protects student athletes on that one, but otherwise protects non-athletes only in special circumstances, which don't include studying for the MCAT.
Longhorned wrote:What some of you guys write about professors and athletes doesn't seem real. I teach a lot of football players, including some very recognizable ones, and I don't know why they keep taking my classes if there are fake classes taught by stooges of the athletics department. I have to report on the athletes' progress, and when they don't do well, a staff member gets on their asses immediately and helps me get them back on track. And I can see why other students in the class don't think the players are ever in my classes, but there's a transparent policy about alternative accommodations and alternative exams, and none of it is fake.
Aren't you at Illinois? I think we may have identified why Illini football has been bad for a while.
I guess it goes back to our discussion about how taking attendence in college is stupid.
Anyone who took COM 100 in Harvill in the early 90's knows all about that. Stupid class at 7pm on Monday night in football season when Monday night mattered. It was 1 unit. We had a book and a study guide...screw it. I am staying home.
Show up to the final, open book, and half the questions are made up of 5 answers he gave every class after the first one...shit like "what color was my tie on 8/29?"
Basically, he built an attendance grade into the final grade without telling anyone. What a prick. Of course, I got like a 60% on the only test in the class (I was able to guess right on a few, I suppose), got a D and had to waste a GRO hour re-taking it in the spring. All for a stupid 1 hour COM intro class...
Has anybody read Borzello's article "How have NBA draft decisions swayed uncommitted 2017 prospects?" I don't have an ESPN Insider subscription, and was wondering it was worth a read.
Draftexpress updated yesterday. Rawle is still classed in 2018, Chance is missing from all , Lauri is up to 6 and Kobi is still squeaking into the second round.
I laugh every time I put down Academic All American as one of my achievements on an employment resume, knowing damn well I didn't earn that shit.