Bear Down Wildcats

It is going to be interesting to see how Gonzaga navigates their roster moving forward now that have hit a new level of recruiting.

Dave wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 12:52 pm It is going to be interesting to see how Gonzaga navigates their roster moving forward now that have hit a new level of recruiting.

Gonzaga (to me) shows the upside and downside of the new world in CBB.

They spent years recruiting below the radar and falling short of the Final Four. They then shifted a bit (mainly through transfers) and got a then-high in talent when they made the Final Four in 16-17.

The flip side was then Collins and Williams-Goss left for the NBA after the 16-17 run and they took a bit of a step back in 17-18. They then retained and added Brandon Clarke and were back to being very good in 18-19, although falling short of the Final Four again.

They used some grad transfers to keep rooling in 19-20, then added Suggs to make their big run this year. Now that core is gone and they have a ground up reload year, with some OAD's.

They had 5 players drafted between 2005 and 2015. They had 5 drafted between 2016 and 2019 alone and will have 3 players drafted this year, 4 if you count Petrusev.

It's an interesting study in how you need big timers to break through, and how that often comes with accompanying roster instability. They went from no one leaving for the pros to 5 people (6 if you count Petrusev) in the past three years.

Thanks for the info Spiff. Only 5 players drafted in a decade. Never would have believed that.

Dave wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 1:37 pm Thanks for the info Spiff. Only 5 players drafted in a decade. Never would have believed that.

https://basketball.realgm.com/ncaa/conf ... /nba-draft

It was even a little more impactful than that. Of the 5 picks, Turiaf and Olynyk are the only ones who did much in the NBA (and Turiaf's career was longer than it was distinguished). Daye, Sacre and Morrison all had short, disappointing careers.

Their recent picks, Sabonis, Hachimura, Clarke and Collins have all been significant contributors (at least before Collins blew an ankle). Suggs will add to that, as it's hard to see him not being a good pro, and Kispert and Ayayi could be good too.

In the period of time between 2004-05 and 2014-15, they had 3 recruits in the top 50. They've had 8 from 15-16 to the present.

Longhorned wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 4:35 pmOf course the boosters at UK will pay the fees. So will the boosters at the U fo A. Nobody got caught doing that. Anyone who stops now won't get any quality recruits.

We kept the boosters that wanted Miller to stay?

Jefe wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 4:02 pm

Longhorned wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 4:35 pmOf course the boosters at UK will pay the fees. So will the boosters at the U fo A. Nobody got caught doing that. Anyone who stops now won't get any quality recruits.

We kept the boosters that wanted Miller to stay?

Everyone wants to be clean until you see what clean recruiting looks like.

So I am guessing the guy who runs that site stole the info from Jason's website. Unless he is referring to the Kentucky Wildcats.

Might as well commit on Twitter dude

Irish27 wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 5:44 pm So I am guessing the guy who runs that site stole the info from Jason's website. Unless he is referring to the Kentucky Wildcats.

He's trolling

Hes going to be a wildcat in Kentucky

What was more short and disappointing?
Morrison’s career or his mustache?

Recruitments with ridiculous parents never work out for Arizona.

Once he left Arizona on his unofficial without a commitment announcement in the subsequent days, you knew it was over.

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 6:07 pm Recruitments with ridiculous parents never work out for Arizona.

That’s ok. I would like less drama

I’m ok with landing a PG that will contribute significantly the next 2+ years.

Tee and his boy can follow in the long list of west coast Kentucky stars like Devin Askew, Johnny Juzang, Jemarl Baker, Marcus Lee and Kyle Wiltjer.

Backup PG, only, please. Develop Kerr and Terry as initiators. Use Pelle as a third PG / PG of last resort.

Worst kept secret ever. Everyone knew he was Kentucky bound for about a week lmao

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 6:39 pm Backup PG, only, please. Develop Kerr and Terry as initiators. Use Pelle as a third PG / PG of last resort.

Kerr's the only PG we've got. Pelle or Terry would be a sign that disaster's occurred.

Think we’ll get some good news this week.

Keep an eye for Kaluma tomorrow or Friday, pretty much between us and Creighton, I got a good feeling about this one

Is Kaluma just going to commit without an announcement of a future announcement or putting out a final 10 list?

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 7:35 pm Is Kaluma just going to commit without an announcement of a future announcement or putting out a final 10 list?

I'll be disappointed if he doesn't do the 'ol multiple hats on a table faking grabbing one then grabbing another thing.

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 7:35 pm Is Kaluma just going to commit without an announcement of a future announcement or putting out a final 10 list?

I think so. His AAU coach said he was expecting it do be announced by Friday. Pretty much has a top four of Us, Washington, Creighton, and Syracuse. Us and Creighton are front runners. After the McDermitt situation I'd expect him to pick us

Kaluma is rated the No. 43 player in the ‘21 class, according to 247Sports’ composite rankings. ESPN.com puts him at No. 46 in its rankings for the class.

“He’s very underrated,’' Stevens said. “The Covid year really hurt his stock. I think you’d see him in the top 25 if he’d been able to play more and be seen more this past year.’’

Stevens said he expected Kaluma to have a decision by early next week and possibly sooner. Kaluma graduates from Dream City Christian School in Glendale, Arizona, next week.

“His goal is to be in summer school and get to work,’' Stevens said. “It’s coming together quite fast for him.’'

Could go into next week apparently

Idk about the top 25, but i agree in a normal year, Kaluma could be a top 30-35 guy. His 247 ranking history had him as high as #16 overall in summer of 2020. Top 20 for most of the first half of 2020

https://247sports.com/PlayerSport/Arthu ... ory=top247

Scheer said on Mike Luke's podcast that came out yesterday that he's hearing Kaluma will make an announcement within the next 72 hours. They typically record the morning of, so what would've been yesterday morning. I think he's going to announce soon

We happy drinking or sad drinking? I’ve got nothing on this one.

Seems crazy the he'd pick McDermott after what he said.

Omaha or Tucson? Seems like an easy pick to me

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 9:04 am Seems crazy the he'd pick McDermott after what he said.

I'm not sure I agree.

Kaluma has probably met McDermott enough to feel like he has an idea of who McDermott is. McDermott's statement was stupid and a mistake, but it wasn't so hostile I couldn't see a player who knows McDermott concluding it was more a mistake by a generally decent guy.

We see the headline, but they see the person. I'm not defending McDermott's phrasing, but he seems to have been saying he wanted the team to be all in, but picked a really bad way to say it. If Kaluma's liked McDermott in his contact with him, I could see him looking past that incident.

I'm hoping for the best here. Thinking we got a great shot. Mike Luke on his podcast a couple days ago said he's heard he's more likely than not to become a wildcat. In state kid, probably gets to start right away, we're going to have a great team, I think we got this

Are we assuming Cuse is out of the running?

Guys is it crazy to think this kid, our highest ranked recruit in the 2020 class and one of the youngest members of the 2020 class, might be able to play PG?:

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Dalen Terry, 2020, Hillcrest Prep (AZ) - The Phoenix-based Terry, like his Compton Magic-mate Silva, has immense size and length for lead guard position he’s most comfortable playing. The 6-foot-7 rising senior is another guy who uses his high basketball IQ and vision to...

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Dalen Terry – 2020 – Compton Magic’s lead guard showed why so many programs – including Memphis – love his size at the point guard position and his ability to create for his teammates. At 6-foot-6, he’s creative, has elite court vision and can score when needed. Terry is the engine that drives the Magic Boys train.

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2020 Dalen Terry, Compton Magic – One player who is trending up the boards for college coaches, there was a hefty crowd to watch Terry and Jaylen Clark without No. 1 player in the country, Evan Mobley. The 6’7” wing looks more like a combo guard when handling the ball, he is a brilliant passer with great vision. Terry plays with high intensity while being able to play under control. Coaches drool over the type of defense Terry plays with active hands and staying in front of his man forcing tough shots. Despite the Magic’s struggles without Mobley, the contributions across the board from Dalen Terry, Jaylen Clark and Yassine Gharram was enough to beat a tough Brookwood Elite team. In their second game, Terry kept it rolling in the Magic’s win over Team Florida adding 9 points, but his defensive play was what helped them hold onto the win.

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Dalen Terry: Another guy that jumped out to me is Top 40 prospect Dalen Terry. The kid is a legit 6’7 guard, defends his you-know-what off, and has an ability to get to his spots on the court and get buckets in the lane. His shot needs some work, but as one of the youngest players in the 2020 class, he will get there, and overall, I’d argue his upside is as high as anyone at Pangos this weekend. I actually had a prominent media member say to me, “I bet he ends up as one of the best pro prospects out of this class” and I don’t necessarily disagree. Virtually all of the Pac-12 is on Terry, as is Arkansas, although to be honest, I don’t think he’ll end up a Razorback. He told me there is no time-frame on his commitment, and that “when I find the right school, I’ll just know.”

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Rosenberg's Take: Dalen Terry grew considerably during high school and became one of the best passer/play-makers in the country. Terry brings a huge motor on defense in every outing. He is one of the most charismatic players, both on and off the court, and has a persona that other star players want to play with. His body looks like George Gervin back in the day, and with his improved athleticism he should help the Wildcats out immediately.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 9:53 am Are we assuming Cuse is out of the running?

Syracuse already has three starting caliber forwards on its roster for next season with Villanova transfer Cole Swider, Cornell transfer Jimmy Boeheim and incoming freshman Benny Williams - Kaluma would likely find it difficult to get minutes there / would have a limited role in his first season.

Terry is fine as a spell PG, especially as another ball handler and distributor, the more on the floor the better. Especially with Lloyd's thing being to constantly passing the ball quickly and ball/player movement.

He was on Jon Rothstein's podcast and said he wants to move fast, move the ball, and doesn't want his teams to necessarily run set plays but make reads.

Terry should be fine as a PG in that open style, read and react type system, he can push the ball very easily.

Those descriptions of Terry remind me of the scouting reports on J.P. Prince.

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:36 am Terry is fine as a spell PG, especially as another ball handler and distributor, the more on the floor the better. Especially with Lloyd's thing being to constantly passing the ball quickly and ball/player movement.

He was on Jon Rothstein's podcast and said he wants to move fast, move the ball, and doesn't want his teams to necessarily run set plays but make reads.

Terry should be fine as a PG in that open style, read and react type system, he can push the ball very easily.

I don't see it with Terry, at minimum until his J starts going down consistently.

If the goal is just to have someone dribble up the court, well, Tubelis could do that. Terry has solid vision, but he doesn't have an exceptional handle, great penetration ability and it's compounded by him not being a consistent enough threat with the J. I don't see him adding more offensively than just dribble up the floor, and he does not excel with his handle.

My bigger issue is D. If Kerr isn't playing, I do not see who guards a smaller, quicker PG. Terry is long, but not laterally explosive. Mathurin was so so on controlling penetration and Pelle's D suggests the same.

We see a quick PG and a team will murder us with a high pick and roll with that PG and Koloko/Ballo/Tubelis's man. Terry's not well suited for lateral recovery in the p&r, and none of those 3 bigs covers ground particularly well. It's a bad combo.

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:45 am Those descriptions of Terry remind me of the scouting reports on J.P. Prince.

And I'm reminded that JP Prince went on to become SEC 6th man of the year and then the following season made the NCAA All Tournament Team for a top 15 Tennessee team where he was second in assists, third in points, third in rebounds, first in steals, and third in blocks.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:07 am

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:36 am Terry is fine as a spell PG, especially as another ball handler and distributor, the more on the floor the better. Especially with Lloyd's thing being to constantly passing the ball quickly and ball/player movement.

He was on Jon Rothstein's podcast and said he wants to move fast, move the ball, and doesn't want his teams to necessarily run set plays but make reads.

Terry should be fine as a PG in that open style, read and react type system, he can push the ball very easily.

I don't see it with Terry, at minimum until his J starts going down consistently.

If the goal is just to have someone dribble up the court, well, Tubelis could do that. Terry has solid vision, but he doesn't have an exceptional handle, great penetration ability and it's compounded by him not being a consistent enough threat with the J. I don't see him adding more offensively than just dribble up the floor, and he does not excel with his handle.

My bigger issue is D. If Kerr isn't playing, I do not see who guards a smaller, quicker PG. Terry is long, but not laterally explosive. Mathurin was so so on controlling penetration and Pelle's D suggests the same.

We see a quick PG and a team will murder us with a high pick and roll with that PG and Koloko/Ballo/Tubelis's man. Terry's not well suited for lateral recovery in the p&r, and none of those 3 bigs covers ground particularly well. It's a bad combo.

We largely agree here - I think any PG who can't shoot is going to be ineffective in today's game, and Terry's lateral quickness and loose handle left a lot to be desired last season. My belief here is that Terry was coming off knee surgery last summer and admitted that it impacted his jumper and his confidence. Him being one of the youngest members of his class (still only 18 today) probably compounded some of those issues.

It also means we can still have some confidence in his upside. He's spent the offseason so far drilling with his skills coach (Tony Miller) - working on his shooting and his handles instead of rehabbing from meniscus surgery.

Your point regarding smaller PGs... that's why I'd like to bring in Aaron Cook from Gonzaga - smaller guard, can handle PG duties, would be the only upperclassman on the roster, wouldn't impact growth or the roster for next season, and he's known for his perimeter defense.

The length that we'll have between Terry (7'1" wingspan), Larsson (6'9" wingspan), Mathurin (6'8") will be helpful, but we still need a PG who can stay in front of the point of attack.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:40 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:07 am

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:36 am Terry is fine as a spell PG, especially as another ball handler and distributor, the more on the floor the better. Especially with Lloyd's thing being to constantly passing the ball quickly and ball/player movement.

He was on Jon Rothstein's podcast and said he wants to move fast, move the ball, and doesn't want his teams to necessarily run set plays but make reads.

Terry should be fine as a PG in that open style, read and react type system, he can push the ball very easily.

I don't see it with Terry, at minimum until his J starts going down consistently.

If the goal is just to have someone dribble up the court, well, Tubelis could do that. Terry has solid vision, but he doesn't have an exceptional handle, great penetration ability and it's compounded by him not being a consistent enough threat with the J. I don't see him adding more offensively than just dribble up the floor, and he does not excel with his handle.

My bigger issue is D. If Kerr isn't playing, I do not see who guards a smaller, quicker PG. Terry is long, but not laterally explosive. Mathurin was so so on controlling penetration and Pelle's D suggests the same.

We see a quick PG and a team will murder us with a high pick and roll with that PG and Koloko/Ballo/Tubelis's man. Terry's not well suited for lateral recovery in the p&r, and none of those 3 bigs covers ground particularly well. It's a bad combo.

We largely agree here - I think any PG who can't shoot is going to be ineffective in today's game, and Terry's lateral quickness and loose handle left a lot to be desired last season. My belief here is that Terry was coming off knee surgery last summer and admitted that it impacted his jumper and his confidence. Him being one of the youngest members of his class (still only 18 today) probably compounded some of those issues.

It also means we can still have some confidence in his upside. He's spent the offseason so far drilling with his skills coach (Tony Miller) - working on his shooting and his handles instead of rehabbing from meniscus surgery.

Your point regarding smaller PGs... that's why I'd like to bring in Aaron Cook from Gonzaga - smaller guard, can handle PG duties, would be the only upperclassman on the roster, wouldn't impact growth or the roster for next season, and he's known for his perimeter defense.

The length that we'll have between Terry (7'1" wingspan), Larsson (6'9" wingspan), Mathurin (6'8") will be helpful, but we still need a PG who can stay in front of the point of attack.

I don't think Terry's bad, just that PG isn't a position he can succeed at or is really fair to him.

He isn't a talented enough athlete or penetrator he can just blow by people. He needs the J to be working to force the D up on him to open lanes, and last year, that wasn't happening. In turn, he has good vision, but can't show it without getting penetration or forcing the D out of position, which he needs the J to do.

He has potential to develop, but I see him so much more as a wing who has standout attributes in length and passing ability than as a PG who's long but deficient in lateral quickness and handle.

I think we'd be fine with him and Mathurin starting together, and frankly, I like that better than Pelle starting. Still, O or D, he isn't a PG and I'm worried shoving him into that stunts his growth into his natural position and ability.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:21 am

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:45 am Those descriptions of Terry remind me of the scouting reports on J.P. Prince.

And I'm reminded that JP Prince went on to become SEC 6th man of the year and then the following season made the NCAA All Tournament Team for a top 15 Tennessee team where he was second in assists, third in points, third in rebounds, first in steals, and third in blocks.

But not as a point guard.

Chicat wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:45 am Those descriptions of Terry remind me of the scouting reports on J.P. Prince.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:54 am
He isn't a talented enough athlete or penetrator he can just blow by people. He needs the J to be working to force the D up on him to open lanes, and last year, that wasn't happening. In turn, he has good vision, but can't show it without getting penetration or forcing the D out of position, which he needs the J to do.

He has potential to develop, but I see him so much more as a wing who has standout attributes in length and passing ability than as a PG who's long but deficient in lateral quickness and handle.

Im super high on Terry, and this is pretty much how I feel about him as well. His handles are too loose right now and he needs to gain strength. I would rather make him a mismatch at the 2/3 and eventually 4, over him needing to play PG. He has the vision, IQ and passing ability to serve as fulcrum, but im not sure being on ball at the point of attack is where hes best at right now.

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:33 pm

He doesn't sound like a PG.

TucsonClip wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:25 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:54 am
He isn't a talented enough athlete or penetrator he can just blow by people. He needs the J to be working to force the D up on him to open lanes, and last year, that wasn't happening. In turn, he has good vision, but can't show it without getting penetration or forcing the D out of position, which he needs the J to do.

He has potential to develop, but I see him so much more as a wing who has standout attributes in length and passing ability than as a PG who's long but deficient in lateral quickness and handle.

Im super high on Terry, and this is pretty much how I feel about him as well. His handles are too loose right now and he needs to gain strength. I would rather make him a mismatch at the 2/3 and eventually 4, over him needing to play PG. He has the vision, IQ and passing ability to serve as fulcrum, but im not sure being on ball at the point of attack is where hes best at right now.

Yeah, I feel like he has an unavoidable ceiling as a PG where he's almost unplayable vs some teams if things go right.

As a Solomon Hill type wing with high IQ, passing and versatility, that's his future.

Magic Johnson was the greatest tall PG ever, and the Lakers still had to pair him with Drew/Scott to defend smaller pg's and modify their offense to run through Magic in the post if other teams tried to put a smaller defender on him.

You'd have to do similar things with Terry, and Dalen's good, but he is in no way comparable to Magic, so you're not going to modify offense and defense to allow him to play out of position. He has that three position versatility potential, but PG isn't one of them. You can still allow him more freedom to initiate if/when he's ready without shoving him into a position that doesn't suit him or the team.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:35 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:33 pm

He doesn't sound like a PG.

Uh, I don't get his fit at all. He's an older Pelle Larsson with less upside. Plus, you have Mathurin, Terry and Nowell in a similar profile.

1 to 1 is not an ok ast/to ratio for a potential PG, as I said about Pelle.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:35 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:33 pm

He doesn't sound like a PG.

He also has played 5 season in college already lol. I don't think this one is very serious. Aaron Cook at Gonzaga is the same but would be a better fit.

There's a chance Dominick Harris could transfer if Nolan Hickman goes to Gonzaga.

TucsonClip wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:25 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 11:54 am
He isn't a talented enough athlete or penetrator he can just blow by people. He needs the J to be working to force the D up on him to open lanes, and last year, that wasn't happening. In turn, he has good vision, but can't show it without getting penetration or forcing the D out of position, which he needs the J to do.

He has potential to develop, but I see him so much more as a wing who has standout attributes in length and passing ability than as a PG who's long but deficient in lateral quickness and handle.

Im super high on Terry, and this is pretty much how I feel about him as well. His handles are too loose right now and he needs to gain strength. I would rather make him a mismatch at the 2/3 and eventually 4, over him needing to play PG. He has the vision, IQ and passing ability to serve as fulcrum, but im not sure being on ball at the point of attack is where hes best at right now.

It's fair to say that Terry is best suited on the wing, but if we have Kerr starting - is it a tragedy to have Terry playing back-up PG minutes for 10min/g? To me, his potential is Evan Turner - a similar sized and skilled "big guard" who could play 1-3 and stuff the stat sheet.

I'm still on board with getting a back-up PG to take the PG depth concerns off the table, but I've got faith in Terry if he tightens the handle and gets confidence in his jumper.

I'm expecting Kerr will be our starting PG next season.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:39 pm

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:35 pm

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 12:33 pm

He doesn't sound like a PG.

Uh, I don't get his fit at all. He's an older Pelle Larsson with less upside. Plus, you have Mathurin, Terry and Nowell in a similar profile.

1 to 1 is not an ok ast/to ratio for a potential PG, as I said about Pelle.

With Pelle, at least you can say he was adapting to the NCAA last season. This guy is fully baked. Looks like a solid perimeter defender but he was turnover prone and inefficient in conference last season for Georgia.

If and I mean IF Kiers becomes a legit option for us (at the moment it’s just reaching out) then Arizona is going with a plan of Kerr as our primary PG and Terry/Larsson/Kiers playing spot minutes at the 1. Arizona may go this route regardless if it decides to move on Kiers or not. It’s much more likely we’re going to be patient and see what options turn up.