lets talk '16

[rgdeuce]

Choo, I dont pay attention to grad transfers, but two bigs on a guys top 20 list (tollefsen ranked 17th for some perspective. Max Bielfeldt (20th) left Michigan to play 17mpg at Indiana. Averaging 8 and 4 and shooting over 60 pct. rafael maia (8th) averaging 3 and 4 in 14 mpg at Pitt. Im not asking for a top 20 guy even. Just a presence, a body, that has experience and a brain that wont kill the team. If we can get that from a JUCO guy, then fine. If that Aussie wants to come, I am not opposed to that in the slightest. It doesnt have to be a grad transfer just a body. If we dont get the Aussie, then are u fine w going after another big elsewhere? Im all for having the best dogs on the floor and w the minutes I posted, we still have that I feel. if our best lineup in crunch time is kadeem, trier, JJ, Smith, and either Ristic or Lauri in crunch time, cool. The big dogs are going to have plenty of minutes and the important pieces we want to stick around for the next year (simon, Lauri, PJC) are going to still get theirs too.

Again, I am working w a best case scenario here of JJ, Trier, and Smith (healthy) all wearing Arizona jerseys next year. And a best case scenario of no injuries and nobody transferring out or leaving early. I posted the minutes and I dont see whose toes get stepped on. Regardless of whether we add a big or not, in a best case scenario I see Pitts as the guy who isnt getting minutes regardless of the rotation, unless Simon stays stagnant, especially as a defender. Simon is a guy who can also take away from PJC IMO.

As for Tolly still getting big minutes with Smith and Zeus healthy, Im not so sure. Trier has emerged as a guy who needs major minutes. So if he were coming off the bench, he cant have all those minutes from waiting for York and Smith to need some rest and you probably want those guys on the floor for crunch time. York goes to the bench? Not seeing that. The alternative is Smith coming off the bench for Trier, but im guessing that wouldnt happen either. Smith can maybe move to the four to give Trier that extra bump to get him to the mid to high 20s, but thats only gonna happen when Anderson needs a break at the 4. Thats not even taking into account how Miller likes to play Kadeem off the ball w PJC at point, or figuring how to get Simon in to develop. Its pretty easy to see how difficult it would be to find 20 min for Tollefsen here. especially his defensive struggles at the 3. You basically need to chip into Anderson, Smith, Trier, and Yorks minutes forcefullu to get Tollefsen minutes. Not even touching on Simon here. And for what benefit? He doesnt bring a single thing those guys dont or we dont have

[Spaceman Spiff]

I feel like I am the only one who scratches my head at the suggestion that JJ or RS play the '4' next season. Those guys look like purebred 2-3 wing types to me. I could see an occasional 4-1 attack with those 2, Trier, Kadeem/PJC, and Dusan /Chance on the floor together... and some cases where you simply want your best players in at crunch time.

But both seem too valuable on the perimeter (and I am not sure either is strong enough) to park them inside. RHJ was stronger and an exceptionally versatile defender, but he was not a good perimeter offensive player. JJ and RS look like completely different players to me.

Assuming no injury... Let Dusan, Chance, and Lauri eat up 70 minutes a game, and mix things up with a 4-1 attack for 10 minutes per outing. Maybe that is what others are suggesting; if so, I am on board.

No, that's exactly where I'm at. I don't get the interest in turning two guys who are natural wings and pushing them into the post. It's better to have players playing their natural positions.

On Tucsonclip's point, recruiting over Miller's previous recruits, if we get JJ, we are going to do that. If we have a perimeter rotation of RS/JJ/AT/EP/JS/PJC/KA, there is a very low chance all 7 of those guys get significant time regardless of how the post rotation goes. Frankly, I think JJ has the same basic makeup as Smith and is almost 100% a clone in terms of role.

[TucsonClip]

I feel like I am the only one who scratches my head at the suggestion that JJ or RS play the '4' next season. Those guys look like purebred 2-3 wing types to me. I could see an occasional 4-1 attack with those 2, Trier, Kadeem/PJC, and Dusan /Chance on the floor together... and some cases where you simply want your best players in at crunch time.

But both seem too valuable on the perimeter (and I am not sure either is strong enough) to park them inside. RHJ was stronger and an exceptionally versatile defender, but he was not a good perimeter offensive player. JJ and RS look like completely different players to me.

Assuming no injury... Let Dusan, Chance, and Lauri eat up 70 minutes a game, and mix things up with a 4-1 attack for 10 minutes per outing. Maybe that is what others are suggesting; if so, I am on board.

My questions for you would be:

1. Why are you assuming they will be parked inside? Ryan Anderson they are not. Brandon Ashley wasn't parked on the block and neither is Tollefsen.

2. Name one 4 in the Pac-12 that is going to bully them or push them around in the post?

Get them on the floor as much as possible. If that means Smith or Jackson playing the 4, then do it. They can play in Ashley's role offensively and aren't going to get bullied by more physical/bigger 4s. Just take a look at the guys playing PF in the conference and throughout the NCAA.

[DiehardDave37]

rgdeuce: "
"As for Tolly still getting big minutes with Smith and Zeus healthy, Im not so sure."

What did I miss? Won't Tolly be gone before Smith gets healthy?

[ChooChooCat]

Choo choo if you used my minutes you would have gotten 201. Think yours added ten more lol

Lol my bad, you get what I was saying though.

[dcZONAfan]

rgdeuce: "
"As for Tolly still getting big minutes with Smith and Zeus healthy, Im not so sure."

What did I miss? Won't Tolly be gone before Smith gets healthy?

He was saying if smith and zeus were healthy this year Tollefson wouldn't be getting many minutes

[ChooChooCat]

I feel like I am the only one who scratches my head at the suggestion that JJ or RS play the '4' next season. Those guys look like purebred 2-3 wing types to me. I could see an occasional 4-1 attack with those 2, Trier, Kadeem/PJC, and Dusan /Chance on the floor together... and some cases where you simply want your best players in at crunch time.

But both seem too valuable on the perimeter (and I am not sure either is strong enough) to park them inside. RHJ was stronger and an exceptionally versatile defender, but he was not a good perimeter offensive player. JJ and RS look like completely different players to me.

Assuming no injury... Let Dusan, Chance, and Lauri eat up 70 minutes a game, and mix things up with a 4-1 attack for 10 minutes per outing. Maybe that is what others are suggesting; if so, I am on board.

My questions for you would be:

1. Why are you assuming they will be parked inside? Ryan Anderson they are not. Brandon Ashley wasn't parked on the block and neither is Tollefsen.

2. Name one 4 in the Pac-12 that is going to bully them or push them around in the post?

Get them on the floor as much as possible. If that means Smith or Jackson playing the 4, then do it. They can play in Ashley's role offensively and aren't going to get bullied by more physical/bigger 4s. Just take a look at the guys playing PF in the conference and throughout the NCAA.

All of this, 10000000x all of this.

You guys are shoehorning these guys into positions when it doesn't matter. Get your best players on the floor no matter the position. Derrick Williams was never a pure 5, so what?! Playing him there got our best 5 on the floor. Rondae is not a NBA prototypical 4, so what?! Playing him there meant Ashley at the 5, which put our best 5 offensive players together on the floor. This isn't the professional ranks. Jackson and Smith would kill the opposition at the 4 spot for whenever they had to play there, because they can out athlete the opposition at that position more often than not. That's why Justise Winslow was so effective at the 4 for Duke. That's why Bennett Davison was such a great 4 for Arizona in '97. Jackson and Smith are more natural college 4s than Lauri Markkanen would ever hope to be by the way. Either way get the best talent out on that floor. Positions do no matter with the guys we're talking about.

[ChooChooCat]

I feel like I am the only one who scratches my head at the suggestion that JJ or RS play the '4' next season. Those guys look like purebred 2-3 wing types to me. I could see an occasional 4-1 attack with those 2, Trier, Kadeem/PJC, and Dusan /Chance on the floor together... and some cases where you simply want your best players in at crunch time.

But both seem too valuable on the perimeter (and I am not sure either is strong enough) to park them inside. RHJ was stronger and an exceptionally versatile defender, but he was not a good perimeter offensive player. JJ and RS look like completely different players to me.

Assuming no injury... Let Dusan, Chance, and Lauri eat up 70 minutes a game, and mix things up with a 4-1 attack for 10 minutes per outing. Maybe that is what others are suggesting; if so, I am on board.

No, that's exactly where I'm at. I don't get the interest in turning two guys who are natural wings and pushing them into the post. It's better to have players playing their natural positions.

On Tucsonclip's point, recruiting over Miller's previous recruits, if we get JJ, we are going to do that. If we have a perimeter rotation of RS/JJ/AT/EP/JS/PJC/KA, there is a very low chance all 7 of those guys get significant time regardless of how the post rotation goes. Frankly, I think JJ has the same basic makeup as Smith and is almost 100% a clone in terms of role.

It's late and I'll get more into this post later, but what about the 4 spot in Miller's offense shoehorns that position into a post only role? Maybe a post defending role if the player their defending is strong there sure, but offensively that does not mean they will solely be post oriented players. It just doesn't. The only position in this system that is a predominant post position is the 5.

[TucsonClip]

On Tucsonclip's point, recruiting over Miller's previous recruits, if we get JJ, we are going to do that. If we have a perimeter rotation of RS/JJ/AT/EP/JS/PJC/KA, there is a very low chance all 7 of those guys get significant time regardless of how the post rotation goes. Frankly, I think JJ has the same basic makeup as Smith and is almost 100% a clone in terms of role.

I wouldn't go that far...

The difference being the natural recruiting cycle and one more talented player beating out another.

vs.

Miller seeking out a graduate transfer in order to fill someone's role that they were recruited for.

Just imagine you are an AAU coach, parent, handler, or even opposing coach. Miller inks a kid and then the next/same season recruits a graduate transfer to fill that position/role in the rotation. What do you say to yourself, the kid you're representing or as a recruiter?

The big difference between Josh Jackson and a graduate transfer is one is already a lotto pick and the other is filling a spot in an already crowded rotation.

[DiehardDave37]

rgdeuce: "
"As for Tolly still getting big minutes with Smith and Zeus healthy, Im not so sure."

What did I miss? Won't Tolly be gone before Smith gets healthy?

He was saying if smith and zeus were healthy this year Tollefson wouldn't be getting many minutes

Thanks. How did I miss that? Can I chalk it up to 10:37pm being past the old guy's bedtime?

[Spaceman Spiff]

On Tucsonclip's point, recruiting over Miller's previous recruits, if we get JJ, we are going to do that. If we have a perimeter rotation of RS/JJ/AT/EP/JS/PJC/KA, there is a very low chance all 7 of those guys get significant time regardless of how the post rotation goes. Frankly, I think JJ has the same basic makeup as Smith and is almost 100% a clone in terms of role.

I wouldn't go that far...

The difference being the natural recruiting cycle and one more talented player beating out another.

vs.

Miller seeking out a graduate transfer in order to fill someone's role that they were recruited for.

Just imagine you are an AAU coach, parent, handler, or even opposing coach. Miller inks a kid and then the next/same season recruits a graduate transfer to fill that position/role in the rotation. What do you say to yourself, the kid you're representing or as a recruiter?

The big difference between Josh Jackson and a graduate transfer is one is already a lotto pick and the other is filling a spot in an already crowded rotation.

I don't see a grad transfer as filling someone's role. My vision still means Chance and LM play and that we flex RS and JJ instead of the 3 if we want to create more minutes for them.

It's not recruit a grad transfer 4/5 and then sit Chance in favor of that guy. As I posted earlier, 25-20-20-15 is a very reasonable minute distribution in a 4 man 4/5 post rotation and not one I would expect to make a player feel like their role was filled.

[rgdeuce]

[

All of this, 10000000x all of this.

You guys are shoehorning these guys into positions when it doesn't matter. Get your best players on the floor no matter the position. Derrick Williams was never a pure 5, so what?! Playing him there got our best 5 on the floor. Rondae is not a NBA prototypical 4, so what?! Playing him there meant Ashley at the 5, which put our best 5 offensive players together on the floor. This isn't the professional ranks. Jackson and Smith would kill the opposition at the 4 spot for whenever they had to play there, because they can out athlete the opposition at that position more often than not. That's why Justise Winslow was so effective at the 4 for Duke. That's why Bennett Davison was such a great 4 for Arizona in '97. Jackson and Smith are more natural college 4s than Lauri Markkanen would ever hope to be by the way. Either way get the best talent out on that floor. Positions do no matter with the guys we're talking about.

Derrick was a low post player from the jump though. He likely played the 4 and 5 and defended 4s and 5s his whole life. He played the 5 out of necessity, Kyryl and Jacobsen were garbage. Derrick played himself off the bench in Maui, so he was going to find a spot in the starting five and would have done that as a 4 if we had an adequate option at the 5.

[rgdeuce]

My questions for you would be:

1. Why are you assuming they will be parked inside? Ryan Anderson they are not. Brandon Ashley wasn't parked on the block and neither is Tollefsen.

2. Name one 4 in the Pac-12 that is going to bully them or push them around in the post?

Get them on the floor as much as possible. If that means Smith or Jackson playing the 4, then do it. They can play in Ashley's role offensively and aren't going to get bullied by more physical/bigger 4s. Just take a look at the guys playing PF in the conference and throughout the NCAA.

Pac 12 aside, what happens if the team gets into the tournament and comes across a team with two physical and/or strong post players? Or a team with with even just one and he gets Ristic in foul trouble. Ristic is our only big bodied big. You get a guy in that is just muscling and willing his team, getting Ristic in foul trouble, then Lauri or Comanche are going to get thrown around like rag dolls. Stanbrook and that super physical 4 off Xavier's bench were killing us and almost sent us home and it wasn't like Xavier was a high-seeded team. And we remember how good defensively we were. We got Ristic and a bunch of lean bodies or guys who aren't used to that physicality.

Thinking overall big picture, I am agreeing w you and Choo here. Im just concerned with losing that one regular season game because of this that pushes us out of a favorable seed. Or crossing the wrong team in the tournament and falling short because of that. Thats tournament and thats life, but I dont see why covering all your bases and planning for the worst to tighten that hole is a bad thing. Or that bringing in a role player/big body specialist is going to step on anyone's toes when the real depth concerns will be the 1-3 log jam. Still flexibility to move JJ and Smith to the 4, not wanting a "ok we got four true 4's and 5's to play the 4 and 5 now so thats what we are gonna do" scenario.

[Spaceman Spiff]

My questions for you would be:

1. Why are you assuming they will be parked inside? Ryan Anderson they are not. Brandon Ashley wasn't parked on the block and neither is Tollefsen.

2. Name one 4 in the Pac-12 that is going to bully them or push them around in the post?

Get them on the floor as much as possible. If that means Smith or Jackson playing the 4, then do it. They can play in Ashley's role offensively and aren't going to get bullied by more physical/bigger 4s. Just take a look at the guys playing PF in the conference and throughout the NCAA.

Pac 12 aside, what happens if the team gets into the tournament and comes across a team with two physical and/or strong post players? Or a team with with even just one and he gets Ristic in foul trouble. Ristic is our only big bodied big. You get a guy in that is just muscling and willing his team, getting Ristic in foul trouble, then Lauri or Comanche are going to get thrown around like rag dolls. Stanbrook and that super physical 4 off Xavier's bench were killing us and almost sent us home and it wasn't like Xavier was a high-seeded team. And we remember how good defensively we were. We got Ristic and a bunch of lean bodies or guys who aren't used to that physicality.

Thinking overall big picture, I am agreeing w you and Choo here. Im just concerned with losing that one regular season game because of this that pushes us out of a favorable seed. Or crossing the wrong team in the tournament and falling short because of that. Thats tournament and thats life, but I dont see why covering all your bases and planning for the worst to tighten that hole is a bad thing. Or that bringing in a role player/big body specialist is going to step on anyone's toes when the real depth concerns will be the 1-3 log jam. Still flexibility to move JJ and Smith to the 4, not wanting a "ok we got four true 4's and 5's to play the 4 and 5 now so thats what we are gonna do" scenario.

We were big in 2013-14, then we lost Ashley and had to play Rondae at the 4 for stretches. We were never nearly as effective.

I can't understand how any Arizona fan who sat through 2011-12 would be eager to return to the idea of smallball. That is why it is ok to have smaller, talented guys playing up but always better to have bigger, talented guys playing their natural position.

[TucsonClip]

On Tucsonclip's point, recruiting over Miller's previous recruits, if we get JJ, we are going to do that. If we have a perimeter rotation of RS/JJ/AT/EP/JS/PJC/KA, there is a very low chance all 7 of those guys get significant time regardless of how the post rotation goes. Frankly, I think JJ has the same basic makeup as Smith and is almost 100% a clone in terms of role.

I wouldn't go that far...

The difference being the natural recruiting cycle and one more talented player beating out another.

vs.

Miller seeking out a graduate transfer in order to fill someone's role that they were recruited for.

Just imagine you are an AAU coach, parent, handler, or even opposing coach. Miller inks a kid and then the next/same season recruits a graduate transfer to fill that position/role in the rotation. What do you say to yourself, the kid you're representing or as a recruiter?

The big difference between Josh Jackson and a graduate transfer is one is already a lotto pick and the other is filling a spot in an already crowded rotation.

I don't see a grad transfer as filling someone's role. My vision still means Chance and LM play and that we flex RS and JJ instead of the 3 if we want to create more minutes for them.

It's not recruit a grad transfer 4/5 and then sit Chance in favor of that guy. As I posted earlier, 25-20-20-15 is a very reasonable minute distribution in a 4 man 4/5 post rotation and not one I would expect to make a player feel like their role was filled.

So if Ray Smith was healthy this year, who isnt getting minutes? Chance likely doesn't play and maybe redshirts (which would be good), but you're also cutting minutes from another guy or two in the rotation.

The same thing would happen next year if we land a grad transfer. Miller isnt recruiting that guy to sit on the bench and play 5 minutes a game.

I would much rather give those minutes to Smith as a hybrid forward role, which opens more minutes up on the perimeter.

[TucsonClip]

My questions for you would be:

1. Why are you assuming they will be parked inside? Ryan Anderson they are not. Brandon Ashley wasn't parked on the block and neither is Tollefsen.

2. Name one 4 in the Pac-12 that is going to bully them or push them around in the post?

Get them on the floor as much as possible. If that means Smith or Jackson playing the 4, then do it. They can play in Ashley's role offensively and aren't going to get bullied by more physical/bigger 4s. Just take a look at the guys playing PF in the conference and throughout the NCAA.

Pac 12 aside, what happens if the team gets into the tournament and comes across a team with two physical and/or strong post players? Or a team with with even just one and he gets Ristic in foul trouble. Ristic is our only big bodied big. You get a guy in that is just muscling and willing his team, getting Ristic in foul trouble, then Lauri or Comanche are going to get thrown around like rag dolls. Stanbrook and that super physical 4 off Xavier's bench were killing us and almost sent us home and it wasn't like Xavier was a high-seeded team. And we remember how good defensively we were. We got Ristic and a bunch of lean bodies or guys who aren't used to that physicality.

Thinking overall big picture, I am agreeing w you and Choo here. Im just concerned with losing that one regular season game because of this that pushes us out of a favorable seed. Or crossing the wrong team in the tournament and falling short because of that. Thats tournament and thats life, but I dont see why covering all your bases and planning for the worst to tighten that hole is a bad thing. Or that bringing in a role player/big body specialist is going to step on anyone's toes when the real depth concerns will be the 1-3 log jam. Still flexibility to move JJ and Smith to the 4, not wanting a "ok we got four true 4's and 5's to play the 4 and 5 now so thats what we are gonna do" scenario.

If that happens, the opposing team has to defend Jackson/Smith at the 4 and Larui at the 5. That sounds like just as much of a matchup problem. Granted that is a concern, but its one that might present itself in 1 or 2 games. I'll take my chances with an uber talented rotation vs. bruising bigs.

I just dont see Miller recruiting a grad transfer to ride the pine and not be in the rotation. We already know Miller plays 8 guys in games that matter and we would have one of the most talented top 8 in the league, even with Smith and/or Jackson playing "out of position" which I completely disagree over, but anyway...

Get your best 5 on the floor and dont worry about position.

[ChooChooCat]

My questions for you would be:

1. Why are you assuming they will be parked inside? Ryan Anderson they are not. Brandon Ashley wasn't parked on the block and neither is Tollefsen.

2. Name one 4 in the Pac-12 that is going to bully them or push them around in the post?

Get them on the floor as much as possible. If that means Smith or Jackson playing the 4, then do it. They can play in Ashley's role offensively and aren't going to get bullied by more physical/bigger 4s. Just take a look at the guys playing PF in the conference and throughout the NCAA.

Pac 12 aside, what happens if the team gets into the tournament and comes across a team with two physical and/or strong post players? Or a team with with even just one and he gets Ristic in foul trouble. Ristic is our only big bodied big. You get a guy in that is just muscling and willing his team, getting Ristic in foul trouble, then Lauri or Comanche are going to get thrown around like rag dolls. Stanbrook and that super physical 4 off Xavier's bench were killing us and almost sent us home and it wasn't like Xavier was a high-seeded team. And we remember how good defensively we were. We got Ristic and a bunch of lean bodies or guys who aren't used to that physicality.

Thinking overall big picture, I am agreeing w you and Choo here. Im just concerned with losing that one regular season game because of this that pushes us out of a favorable seed. Or crossing the wrong team in the tournament and falling short because of that. Thats tournament and thats life, but I dont see why covering all your bases and planning for the worst to tighten that hole is a bad thing. Or that bringing in a role player/big body specialist is going to step on anyone's toes when the real depth concerns will be the 1-3 log jam. Still flexibility to move JJ and Smith to the 4, not wanting a "ok we got four true 4's and 5's to play the 4 and 5 now so thats what we are gonna do" scenario.

We were big in 2013-14, then we lost Ashley and had to play Rondae at the 4 for stretches. We were never nearly as effective.

I can't understand how any Arizona fan who sat through 2011-12 would be eager to return to the idea of smallball. That is why it is ok to have smaller, talented guys playing up but always better to have bigger, talented guys playing their natural position.

Which team did Arizona lose to after Ashley went down because we weren't as big as opposed to we weren't as good offensively? We didn't lose to Wisconsin because Brandon Ashley would've stopped Frank Kaminsky. We lost to them because Arizona had trouble scoring without Ashley.

Also why are you so positive that Comanche and Lauri will not be much bigger by opening tip next year? Which teams across the country would you be afraid to play against that have such dominating post presences at both the 4 and the 5? Teams that actually have those are so few and far between that they are almost at the point of extinction.

Clip is killing it in this thread by the way.

[TucsonClip]

We were big in 2013-14, then we lost Ashley and had to play Rondae at the 4 for stretches. We were never nearly as effective.

I can't understand how any Arizona fan who sat through 2011-12 would be eager to return to the idea of smallball. That is why it is ok to have smaller, talented guys playing up but always better to have bigger, talented guys playing their natural position.

I thought we were pretty comparable without Ashley. Perhaps someone else can chime in with the stats pre and post Ashley, but I would disagree somewhat there.

Now you are going off the ledge. You are comparing Jesse Perry starting at C to Jackson/Smith playing minutes at the 4 with Ristic (7'0"), Comanche (6'10") and Lauri (6'11") also in our rotation as bigs.

You can call it "small ball" if you want, but look around the country and show me a team with two legit posts who start together that could give a team with a long/athletic SF playing PF problems? There arent that many and we are one of them.

Basketball has evolved, you dont need guys playing their natural positions to succeed, especially in college hoops. You need the best five on the floor as much as possible and hopefully they are versatile athletes (as we have seen).

[ChooChooCat]

My questions for you would be:

1. Why are you assuming they will be parked inside? Ryan Anderson they are not. Brandon Ashley wasn't parked on the block and neither is Tollefsen.

2. Name one 4 in the Pac-12 that is going to bully them or push them around in the post?

Get them on the floor as much as possible. If that means Smith or Jackson playing the 4, then do it. They can play in Ashley's role offensively and aren't going to get bullied by more physical/bigger 4s. Just take a look at the guys playing PF in the conference and throughout the NCAA.

Pac 12 aside, what happens if the team gets into the tournament and comes across a team with two physical and/or strong post players? Or a team with with even just one and he gets Ristic in foul trouble. Ristic is our only big bodied big. You get a guy in that is just muscling and willing his team, getting Ristic in foul trouble, then Lauri or Comanche are going to get thrown around like rag dolls. Stanbrook and that super physical 4 off Xavier's bench were killing us and almost sent us home and it wasn't like Xavier was a high-seeded team. And we remember how good defensively we were. We got Ristic and a bunch of lean bodies or guys who aren't used to that physicality.

Thinking overall big picture, I am agreeing w you and Choo here. Im just concerned with losing that one regular season game because of this that pushes us out of a favorable seed. Or crossing the wrong team in the tournament and falling short because of that. Thats tournament and thats life, but I dont see why covering all your bases and planning for the worst to tighten that hole is a bad thing. Or that bringing in a role player/big body specialist is going to step on anyone's toes when the real depth concerns will be the 1-3 log jam. Still flexibility to move JJ and Smith to the 4, not wanting a "ok we got four true 4's and 5's to play the 4 and 5 now so thats what we are gonna do" scenario.

Stainbrook wasn't physical, he was crafty, but I'll give it to you that Reynolds was physical, but he was also more athletic than Ashley. There's plenty of ways of beating an opponent and matching up against their weaknesses i.e. going with size when they're small or going with athleticism when they're big is a way of doing it. Arizona will have the pieces to do both. Look Chance Comanche went from 190lbs to 205lbs from summer to opening tip off this year. Imagine what he can do with a full offseason with the strength and conditioning staff. Also Lauri has a great frame for putting on more weight as well, I have confidence he'll be in the 225-230 range by opening tip as well. Players get bigger and stronger the second they get in a major strength and conditioning program. I don't think it's going on a big ledge to say that our guys will be bigger and stronger by the time the season opening jump ball occurs. Our guys may not be bangers, but they don't need to be to effectively defend the post.

[ChooChooCat]

Choo, I dont pay attention to grad transfers, but two bigs on a guys top 20 list (tollefsen ranked 17th for some perspective. Max Bielfeldt (20th) left Michigan to play 17mpg at Indiana. Averaging 8 and 4 and shooting over 60 pct. rafael maia (8th) averaging 3 and 4 in 14 mpg at Pitt. Im not asking for a top 20 guy even. Just a presence, a body, that has experience and a brain that wont kill the team. If we can get that from a JUCO guy, then fine. If that Aussie wants to come, I am not opposed to that in the slightest. It doesnt have to be a grad transfer just a body. If we dont get the Aussie, then are u fine w going after another big elsewhere? Im all for having the best dogs on the floor and w the minutes I posted, we still have that I feel. if our best lineup in crunch time is kadeem, trier, JJ, Smith, and either Ristic or Lauri in crunch time, cool. The big dogs are going to have plenty of minutes and the important pieces we want to stick around for the next year (simon, Lauri, PJC) are going to still get theirs too.

The guys you listed are all playing roles on the teams they're on. They're not just bodies. I'm fine with adding another big that isn't a one year rental, yes.

Again, I am working w a best case scenario here of JJ, Trier, and Smith (healthy) all wearing Arizona jerseys next year. And a best case scenario of no injuries and nobody transferring out or leaving early. I posted the minutes and I dont see whose toes get stepped on. Regardless of whether we add a big or not, in a best case scenario I see Pitts as the guy who isnt getting minutes regardless of the rotation, unless Simon stays stagnant, especially as a defender. Simon is a guy who can also take away from PJC IMO.

We're working with the same best case scenario. I agree that if Arizona doesn't have Trier and/or Jackson and Smith isn't healthy in any of the combinations then it opens the doors for necessities, which would likely include a grad transfer of some sort that can play multiple positions, but not necessarily a post player in the pure sense of the word at least.

As for Tolly still getting big minutes with Smith and Zeus healthy, Im not so sure. Trier has emerged as a guy who needs major minutes. So if he were coming off the bench, he cant have all those minutes from waiting for York and Smith to need some rest and you probably want those guys on the floor for crunch time. York goes to the bench? Not seeing that. The alternative is Smith coming off the bench for Trier, but im guessing that wouldnt happen either. Smith can maybe move to the four to give Trier that extra bump to get him to the mid to high 20s, but thats only gonna happen when Anderson needs a break at the 4. Thats not even taking into account how Miller likes to play Kadeem off the ball w PJC at point, or figuring how to get Simon in to develop. Its pretty easy to see how difficult it would be to find 20 min for Tollefsen here. especially his defensive struggles at the 3. You basically need to chip into Anderson, Smith, Trier, and Yorks minutes forcefullu to get Tollefsen minutes. Not even touching on Simon here. And for what benefit? He doesnt bring a single thing those guys dont or we dont have

Hey at the very least Tolly is probably averaging similar minutes as the guys you mentioned in the beginning of your post. He by far and away is the best candidate to back up the 4 with Smith gobbling up the vast majority of minutes at the 3 and Zeus's injury having zero impact on the minutes at the 4 spot. My guess is if Smith stayed healthy then we're looking at Trier as our 6th man and assassin off the bench. This is all semantics anyways, but Tolly was always in line for double digit minutes just like Damion Lee (the top grad transfer choice) would've been to a greater extent.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We were big in 2013-14, then we lost Ashley and had to play Rondae at the 4 for stretches. We were never nearly as effective.

I can't understand how any Arizona fan who sat through 2011-12 would be eager to return to the idea of smallball. That is why it is ok to have smaller, talented guys playing up but always better to have bigger, talented guys playing their natural position.

I thought we were pretty comparable without Ashley. Perhaps someone else can chime in with the stats pre and post Ashley, but I would disagree somewhat there.

Now you are going off the ledge. You are comparing Jesse Perry starting at C to Jackson/Smith playing minutes at the 4 with Ristic (7'0"), Comanche (6'10") and Lauri (6'11") also in our rotation as bigs.

You can call it "small ball" if you want, but look around the country and show me a team with two legit posts who start together that could give a team with a long/athletic SF playing PF problems? There arent that many and we are one of them.

Basketball has evolved, you dont need guys playing their natural positions to succeed, especially in college hoops. You need the best five on the floor as much as possible and hopefully they are versatile athletes (as we have seen).

I'd be interested in the pre-post Ashley stats too. All I can really give is my perception that we struggled and the fact all our L's were post injury (I count Cal because he got injured about 2 min in).

I wasn't comparing next year to 11-12, just saying that having sat through that, size matters.

I don't disagree that there are relatively few teams that would be well suited to exploit JJ and RS being rolled to the 4. As RG pointed out, the thing is, in the NCAA tourney, it only takes one that happens to be in your region. It doesn't matter if the other 66 teams would get whipped with JJ or Ray playing some 4 minutes if you catch the one that is a bad matchup.

[TucsonClip]

I wasn't comparing next year to 11-12, just saying that having sat through that, size matters.

But we will have size next year. With Josh, we would have at least five guys 6'8"+ in our rotation.

I don't disagree that there are relatively few teams that would be well suited to exploit JJ and RS being rolled to the 4. As RG pointed out, the thing is, in the NCAA tourney, it only takes one that happens to be in your region. It doesn't matter if the other 66 teams would get whipped with JJ or Ray playing some 4 minutes if you catch the one that is a bad matchup.

I do agree that all it takes is 1 game, but at some point in the tournament/season you're going to face a difficult matchup that you cant account for. It's bound to happen to every team.

That said, I'll take solace knowing that we would have one of the best 8-man rotations in the entire nation next year.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I wasn't comparing next year to 11-12, just saying that having sat through that, size matters.

But we will have size next year. With Josh, we would have at least five guys 6'8"+ in our rotation.

I don't disagree that there are relatively few teams that would be well suited to exploit JJ and RS being rolled to the 4. As RG pointed out, the thing is, in the NCAA tourney, it only takes one that happens to be in your region. It doesn't matter if the other 66 teams would get whipped with JJ or Ray playing some 4 minutes if you catch the one that is a bad matchup.

I do agree that all it takes is 1 game, but at some point in the tournament/season you're going to face a difficult matchup that you cant account for. It's bound to happen to every team.

That said, I'll take solace knowing that we would have one of the best 8-man rotations in the entire nation next year.

I like Josh, but he's slender. A pounder in the post would give him trouble, IMO.

Edit: I don't have to settle for a bad matchup. My entire post was based off the idea that my wildest dreams are realized regardless of whether they truly come through.

[ChooChooCat]

I wasn't comparing next year to 11-12, just saying that having sat through that, size matters.

But we will have size next year. With Josh, we would have at least five guys 6'8"+ in our rotation.

I don't disagree that there are relatively few teams that would be well suited to exploit JJ and RS being rolled to the 4. As RG pointed out, the thing is, in the NCAA tourney, it only takes one that happens to be in your region. It doesn't matter if the other 66 teams would get whipped with JJ or Ray playing some 4 minutes if you catch the one that is a bad matchup.

I do agree that all it takes is 1 game, but at some point in the tournament/season you're going to face a difficult matchup that you cant account for. It's bound to happen to every team.

That said, I'll take solace knowing that we would have one of the best 8-man rotations in the entire nation next year.

I like Josh, but he's slender. A pounder in the post would give him trouble, IMO.

Edit: I don't have to settle for a bad matchup. My entire post was based off the idea that my wildest dreams are realized regardless of whether they truly come through.

He'd give a pounder just as much trouble if not more than the pounder would give him, that's what you're overlooking in this entire debate. Plus you can play the matchups, if you're worried about Josh defending the pounder, then you don't have him at the 4 until that pounder goes to the bench.

[Puerco]

We clearly need more depth in the post next year. Three bodies to man two positions is not enough to provide insurance, and if you've only got three, who are they going to practice against? No, we need another big guy. Personally, I'd be out looking for another development project, kind of like we thought Chance would be. We don't need a body for minutes if everyone stays healthy, so I'm not sure grad transfer is the right way to go this time around.

Choo, did Tollefsen hurt chemistry?

[ChooChooCat]

We clearly need more depth in the post next year. Three bodies to man two positions is not enough to provide insurance, and if you've only got three, who are they going to practice against? No, we need another big guy. Personally, I'd be out looking for another development project, kind of like we thought Chance would be. We don't need a body for minutes if everyone stays healthy, so I'm not sure grad transfer is the right way to go this time around.

Choo, did Tollefsen hurt chemistry?

They can practice against a Drew Mellon/Eric Conklin type walk on or they can practice against Jackson/Smith pending on the lineup being used. I'm all for a development project as I mentioned before or another Korcheck. A guy who will can help our future and doesn't piss off our current crop of guys is better than a one year rental.

No, he didn't, but this team literally only had one guy on the roster who had SF/PF size not named Ryan Anderson (Smith). Tollefsen was a need plain and simple and he wasn't going to steal serious minutes from anybody else. A grad transfer big is not a need next year with the players we'll have (5 guys over 6'8).

I think this debate has run its course. Bring on Harry Froling.

[97cats]

slice it, dice it, mix it, im more than fine with:

Simon
Allen
Trier
Jackson
Smith
Markkanen
Ristic
Comanche

as the top eight

[billk78]

slice it, dice it, mix it, im more than fine with:

Simon
Allen
Trier
Jackson
Smith
Markkanen
Ristic
Comanche

as the top eight

Is that Josh Jackson or Parker Jackson Cartwright? I'm hoping it's Josh Jackson and we are right where we want to be with him?

[Main Event]

Athletes galore

[rgdeuce]

Stainbrook was skilled for his size but he was still bullying our bigs down low. He was backing our bigs down w his fat backside to inside four feet and using his skills to finish.

Im done beating the dead horse though. We will just see how it plays out.

[HiCat]

Justin Simon could play small, crucial role for Wildcats
@jasonbartel on Jan 2, 2016, 4:17p

Miller:

"But we really believe in Justin...


"A lot of times, a young player like Justin could be the difference between us breaking through or not."

http://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketball ... ean-miller" target="_blank

[gumby]

Where did "Let's Talk '17" go? Is the thread having personal issues?

[KaibabKat]

Where did "Let's Talk '17" go? Is the thread having personal issues?

Somebody got a little God Complex - and it wasn't '97.

[Zero]

WTF is going on?! lol I was looking for the youtube links with the 2017 recruits.

[Jefe]

http://tucson.com/my-two-cents-wildcats ... 5f6f4.html" target="_blank

My two cents: Wildcats' pursuit of Alkins continues

Arizona continues to pursue ESPN’s No. 15 basketball prospect in the Class of 2016, small forward Rawle Alkins of Brooklyn, New York.

For his first three high school seasons, Alkins played at the same school — Christ the King High School — and for the same coach, as former Arizona standout Khalid Reeves. Alkins is now at Word of God Christian Academy in Raleigh, N.C.

Recruiting is such a drama that sometimes you can’t tell up from down. Last week, Alkins told Jon Perez of jonperezsports.com, that he initially eliminated Arizona from his list because “I felt I wasn’t getting too much attention from them.”

“There are times when (Arizona) overly texts me and there are times when they don’t text me at all,” Alkins said. “So it’s inconsistent. So I told (Arizona) that I don’t like that. I’m the one that’s going to affect my recruitment. No one is making decisions for me. So if they’re not contacting me, I’m the player that’s supposed to be playing there. I wouldn’t want to go to a school where you don’t really feel like you’re there.”

No one ever said Sean Miller has an easy job.

[Spaceman Spiff]

It's got to be fun to be a wealthy, successful, middle aged CBB coach who gets a talking to from a 17 year old about texting too little, then texting too much. Especially because you have to take it because your job depends on that sort of thing.

[Gilbertcat]

Fun fact, if you take out Sunday's game, GCU averages 5,224 to Tempe's 5,153 fans per game. And GCU hasnt had any big names play on their court this year. Next year is their last year before they are post season eligible.

[KaibabKat]

Better them than NAU considering RPI implications.

[gumby]

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/new ... n-majerle/" target="_blank

Grand Canyon began as a small, private Christian college that ran into financial difficulties in the 2000s and was purchased by Significant Education, the for-profit enterprise founded by Rancho Santa Fe resident Michael Clifford that has become so controversial in the corridors of higher education. The current model uses profits from Grand Canyon’s online enrollment of 50,000-plus to help finance the overhaul of the Phoenix campus, which has grown from 1,000 to 14,500 students.

Arizona State President Michael Crow, among others, took umbrage and reportedly instigated a Pac-12 request to the NCAA to reconsider the Div. I application of Grand Canyon, the first by a for-profit institution. ASU also banned its sports teams from playing the Antelopes, citing philosophical differences in their missions, and encouraged its Pac-12 brethren to follow.

A 2013 statement from ASU explained: “We cannot play teams that exist for profit and have them use their games against us to advance their stock prices.”

[Spaceman Spiff]

ASU is NOT in this for the money. That's why they rebranded their school and changed the basic school colors about 4 years ago. Because of principle, not to sell merchandise.

[Chicat]

ASU is NOT in this for the money. That's why they rebranded their school and changed the basic school colors about 4 years ago. Because of principle, not to sell merchandise.

Must also be why they've greatly expanded their online offerings and are spending hundreds of thousands on a country-wide advertising blitz to get people to sign up to take Internet classes and receive a virtually worthless ASU degree without ever having stepped foot on their dump of a campus. So altruistic....

[Main Event]

[Chicat]

Good.

Fuck ASU

[Merkin]

GCU playing some pretty good ball.

http://www.ncaa.com/schools/grand-canyon/basketball-men" target="_blank

11/13/15 Portland State W 82-72 (1-0)
11/17/15 Black Hills St. W 88-72 (2-0)
11/19/15 Alcorn State W 79-46 (3-0)
11/23/15 Miss. Valley St. W 94-60 (4-0)
11/30/15 Hampton W 63-51 (5-0)
12/03/15 Cent. Michigan W 75-72 (6-0)
12/05/15 @ Louisville L 111-63 (6-1)
12/08/15 Southern Univ. W 70-56 (7-1)
12/13/15 Omaha L 108-104 (7-2)
12/15/15 Delaware State W 88-59 (8-2)
12/18/15 @ San Diego State W 52-45 (9-2)
12/21/15 @ Houston W 78-69 (10-2)
12/22/15 @ Marshall W 85-81 (11-2)
12/28/15 @ SIUE W 86-75 (12-2)
01/03/16 Bethune-Cookman W 74-53 (13-2)

[Chicat]

Although I have to say, how GCU treated Russ Pennell still chaps my ass. Hope we destroy them.

[carolinacat]

Although I have to say, how GCU treated Russ Pennell still chaps my ass. Hope we destroy them.

True.

But don't forget, Grand Canyon gave us the best gift ever: Ben Lindsey as head coach. His disastrous, one year stay at Arizona forever changed basketball in our state. If it wasn't for his complete and utter failure as a head coach (4-24, 1-17), we never hire Lute Olson. Thank you Grand Canyon!

[Jefe]

[Beachcat97]

Wow. That would be some much-needed good news. When is he deciding?

[PennZona20]

Still no chance right guys???

[Spaceman Spiff]

Still no chance right guys???

I'm not getting hopes up until someone in the know says there's a real chance.