Bear Down Wildcats

rgdeuce wrote:Why Pinder over Akot?

Motor.

PieceOfMeat wrote:It'll be good enough to win a bunch of games this year and reach the elite 8.

I think you're being sarcastic, but that would be an utter failure of a season with the talent we have. SM must break through this year because our chances of a FF decrease dramatically in 2018-2019. I will lead the Fire SM parade if he doesn't get it done in March. No one cares about regular season wins if the E8 is our ceiling. Give me a coach who can do more with less. I miss Lute.

Beachcat97 wrote:This has probably been discussed ad nauseum in other threads, but we could help ourselves by adding a zone defense. Maybe that’s how you get Ristic and Ayton on the floor together.

Couple things: harder to rebound in a zone defense and this team hasnt proven they can do that at the expected level yet. Also, instill a new defense to "hide" a player defensively when the team has plenty of guys who can put the ball in the hoop, said player is at best your third scoring option, and you have a top 10 player who can play the same position?

The strength of this team is clear and the ceiling is unbelievably high. Ristic has been at his ceiling and his game and athleticism arent a great match for this teams strength. He can still help this team and he is still an important piece, Miller just has to figure out how he is going to make this work.

Merkin wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Why Pinder over Akot?

Motor.

Other than seeing his limited minutes last night and hearing the rumors about it being his effort in practice, I thought Akot has been good in this regard. Also a better defender, shooter and most importantly passer. That said, I see the Pinder argument and I wouldnt kick and scream if Miller tried that.

rgdeuce wrote:

Merkin wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Why Pinder over Akot?

Motor.

Other than seeing his limited minutes last night and hearing the rumors about it being his effort in practice, I thought Akot has been good in this regard. Also a better defender, shooter and most importantly passer. That said, I see the Pinder argument and I wouldnt kick and scream if Miller tried that.

Nothing like some pine time to change your attitude. Hoping for big things out of Akot.

rgdeuce wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:This has probably been discussed ad nauseum in other threads, but we could help ourselves by adding a zone defense. Maybe that’s how you get Ristic and Ayton on the floor together.

Couple things: harder to rebound in a zone defense and this team hasnt proven they can do that at the expected level yet. Also, instill a new defense to "hide" a player defensively when the team has plenty of guys who can put the ball in the hoop, said player is at best your third scoring option, and you have a top 10 player who can play the same position?

The strength of this team is clear and the ceiling is unbelievably high. Ristic has been at his ceiling and his game and athleticism arent a great match for this teams strength. He can still help this team and he is still an important piece, Miller just has to figure out how he is going to make this work.

There isn't a zone that is really good for playing Ayton and Ristic together. 2-3 and 1-3-1 both demand one covers the perimeter and runs. You don't want Dusan doing that, so you play Ayton on the perimeter, which stations your best rim protector away from the rim.

3-2 makes both Ayton and Ristic run. I do not get the logic that a zone helps. It helps Dusan stay more stationary and kills a lot of the things Ayton can do for us. What is the logic there?

ChooChooCat wrote:

azcat49 wrote:So Ristic as a scoring Sr would get 6 minutes a game. That won't happen

What player under Sean Miller has ever averaged 34mpg?

You can play Ristic and Ayton together in certain spurts, but I would never start off the game or a half with them on the court together. Give Ristic 15mpg or in that region, that's more than enough.

All kinds of people on this board saying Ayton will be logging 30+ a game.

I just don't see Miller playing DR less than 25 a game. No doubt he is a huge liability on defense but Miller has always been enamored with size it seems.

Another poor defensive night tonight might get him thinking. Who knows what changes will be made to a team that was thought to be a near lock for a FF

rgdeuce wrote:Why Pinder over Akot?

size, rebounding, effort, someone to guard 4s. Has 5 fouls to give. Doesn't need the ball so that fits with Ayton, PJC, Trier, Rawle. Give him the first 3-4 minutes and 2-3 more minutes a half and that will be fine. Akot, Lee, etc. will get more minutes. I just like a role player playing next to those starters. Then Dusan, Barcello, and Akot can run the 2nd unit.

nc state lost to northern iowa

:/

Merkin wrote:Final Four has to be this year with recruits bailing, and the ones that do sign only sign financial aid papers, not a NLI.

I agree, Merk. It feels a little unfair to impose such steep expectations on our guys, but we’re approaching a decade of Miller as coach. This could be our deepest, most capable team. Anything short of the FF this year will feel disappointing. All the more so given the multiple E8 losses. Miller has his work cut out for him between now and March, but he also has a damn good team. If he can’t reach the FF with such a loaded, experienced team, when will he? Ayton, Trier, Alkins...these guys don’t come along often.

So, the football team has a better record than the basketball team...

... just sayin'

Can't defend
Can't rebound
Commit too many turnovers
Predictable on offense

Most importantly, this team is SOFT

I’m just about done with this bullshit.

And some of these guys are getting $100k+ to play for us??? Terrible ROI.

SMU had 23 more field goal attempts than we did. It's a really bad sign when you lose two in a row for basically the opposite reasons.

We legitimately can only play 4 guys (unless playing a cupcake)

Ayton
Trier
PJC
Akot


Everyone else is terrible or isn't ready yet, even akot is too raw

Chicat wrote:I’m just about done with this bullshit.

And some of these guys are getting $100k+ to play for us??? Terrible ROI.

Thank you for that laugh.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:SMU had 23 more field goal attempts than we did. It's a really bad sign when you lose two in a row for basically the opposite reasons.

Stat of the night. TO's 18-5

Spaceman Spiff wrote:SMU had 23 more field goal attempts than we did. It's a really bad sign when you lose two in a row for basically the opposite reasons.

This.

And the worst part is .... they guy you would think would be dogging it the most (all everything Ayton) is the one playing the hardest. Trier On D tonight was abysmal. Absolutely absymal. And I’ve seen him D up so i know he is capable of at least pretty good D. His off ball D is atrocious. I love the kid for sticking w the program for 3 years but this is unacceptable of he wants all those awards and team success.

The other frosh look out of their depth which is unacceptable as we just saw 5’5 Beverly looking like he belonged when his athleticism belongs at the local Y. Pinder gives effort but can’t score. Pretty much same w Lee except he will get better. Dusan is the worst 7ft defensive player I’ve seen and at least tonight he sat for giving up so many 50/50 boards. PJC has been ok this year but he was is what he is. God do we need Alkins back.

I’m not giving up on this team but once again the PAC looks like trash so if we lose to Purdue we aren’t going to be sniffing a top seed and the road will be hard.

RondaeShimmy wrote:We legitimately can only play 4 guys (unless playing a cupcake)

Ayton
Trier
PJC
Akot


Everyone else is terrible or isn't ready yet, even akot is too raw

Agree and this lineup has its own issues:

Pinder has no offensive game
PJC is getting violated on defense
Trier is not incredibly athletic and plays very average perimeter defense
Akot has, thus far, shown marginal offensive skills

We need Alkins back bad..........and even that will only marginally improve this team. We had better pray that the frosh outside
of Ayton improve, and fast.

Two embarassing losses after we were all on cloud 9. Only logical explanation is Ayton is the only guy not treating this tournament like a vacation. These dudes are all playing like the were knee deep in some locals until 5am.

Very little to like on defense, from anyone. Team (sans Ayton) cant rebound to save their ass. We saw what felt like a mirror image of the Xavier game for Trier, that is, live by the Trier, die by the Trier. Ball movement has been ass and he's gotta start understanding that we aren't at our best when he's trying to put up 30 points every night. Freshmen (sans Ayton) got to step it up and play within themselves/their roles. We didn't feel deep tonight.

This team needs Alkins back, just for the fact that he will inject some toughness.

This might be the most overhyped Wildcats team I have seen in 30 years of following Arizona basketball. Outside of Ayton, the freshman class has been dismal. Rawle cannot come back soon enough.

The young guys are going to get better and come February, they will be a team that will be much better than they are now. Finally, let's hope Rawlie comes back.

It's about that time we just run the offense through Ayton. You get benched if you take a non wide open shot without him touching the ball on a possession and that includes Zo. You're never getting a player like him again so act like it and ride him

We MIGHT , i repeat MIGHT be okay by March if everything falls into place, but if we don’t beat Purdue, we are looking at a very ugly non-conf strength of record and the PAC looks like ass. Only pleasant surprise is ASU. Everyone else looks worse than expected.

TatetheGreat wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:It'll be good enough to win a bunch of games this year and reach the elite 8.

I think you're being sarcastic, but that would be an utter failure of a season with the talent we have. SM must break through this year because our chances of a FF decrease dramatically in 2018-2019. I will lead the Fire SM parade if he doesn't get it done in March. No one cares about regular season wins if the E8 is our ceiling. Give me a coach who can do more with less. I miss Lute.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I think elite 8 is the ceiling. Perhaps that changes by the end of the season, but I think it's a fair statement currently.

We could very well be looking at a 3-4 seed even if we win the PAC.

PennZona20 wrote:We could very well be looking at a 3-4 seed even if we win the PAC.

how many losses will the pac winner have this year?

I imagine we're going to have at least 4 losses minimum....is that enough to get it done?

Main Event wrote:It's about that time we just run the offense through Ayton. You get benched if you take a non wide open shot without him touching the ball on a possession and that includes Zo. You're never getting a player like him again so act like it and ride him

Yep. It's been like a see-saw w these two with the scoring, and it seems Ayton is only allowed to shine when Trier allows. Not gonna jump on that train just yet, but I think those early big games may not have been the best thing for him, or the team.

PennZona20 wrote:We could very well be looking at a 3-4 seed even if we win the PAC.

Have to think duke (or top acc team) ku, msu will lock up 1 seeds, villanova likely the fourth 1 seed

Then likely kentucky, florida, wichita st as 2 seeds, maybe Cincy or miami or unc also

Yeah, realistically could be at a 3-4 seed since the pac 12 is weak

Oddest box score ever.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basket ... =401000103" target="_blank

This loss was brought to you by the number 20. Arizona had 20 turnovers, and SMU had 20 offensive rebounds (and 19 defensive). Arizona put up 20 threes and made five. Otherwise, shot 17-27.

SMU put up 23 more shots (missing most of them), and we only grabbed four more rebounds. SMU shot 31 percent. Three of their players did this:

Foster -- 2/17
Milton -- 3/16
Whitt -- 3/11

Total -- 8/44

And they won! The entire Cat roster only put up three more shots than that. SMU also missed some easy shots at the rim. And there were at the rim all night.

Arizona missed all five front ends. Trier did it twice. So you can add those to the turnover total.

This team is Not Ready For Prime Time. Just a gagathon, especially in crunch time. Akot gripping on his shot. Barcello seemingly wetting himself. Can we get an APB out on Randolph? I was thinking we'd be fine without Alkins. Holy hell, we desperately need that dude.

Softest team in the Miller Era, so far. Giving up straight-line drives with nobody stepping in.

Trier does not trust anyone other than Akot, which equals stagnant O as the ball sticks in his hand. No weak-side action. No motion. Few buckets off assists. Two-man team. Easy to guard.

Does not look like a Miller team. The twin tower thing will not work. Ristic is a backup. Can't guard anyone.

Must be:

Ayton
Parker
Trier
Alkins
And whoever decides they want to D the fuck up and hit the glass. Don't care how many stars you had coming out of high school.

P.S. Remember that steal Parker got and the feed to Ayton for the dunk? That was our only steal of the game. Downey soft.

Why didn't Miller pull Trier end of game when he was a turnover machine? Obviously he, along with Pinder and PJC were out of gas due to the strange CSM rotations.

I don't recall Lute putting up with that ISO shit. Maybe with Igoudala, and Marcus thinking about it, when the Cats had no bench.

Kind of like now.

What happened to Barcello? No points again, for the best shooter on the team. 2 straight turnovers, after having his first TO of the season yesterday.

Absolutely no bench.

Merkin wrote:Why didn't Miller pull Trier end of game when he was a turnover machine? Obviously he, along with Pinder and PJC were out of gas due to the strange CSM rotations.

I don't recall Lute putting up with that ISO shit. Maybe with Igoudala, and Marcus thinking about it, when the Cats had no bench.

Kind of like now.

What happened to Barcello? No points again, for the best shooter on the team. 2 straight turnovers, after having his first TO of the season yesterday.

Absolutely no bench.

Too much T&A (Trier, Ayton).

When I checked the stats about half way through first Qtr, Ristic was 2-2, he finished game 3-4.
Every possession that doesn't go to DR or DA for a touch down low is stupid.

You all act like you've never seen the trier show before.

Same stuff-different season. Mercurial player.

PieceOfMeat wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:It'll be good enough to win a bunch of games this year and reach the elite 8.

I think you're being sarcastic, but that would be an utter failure of a season with the talent we have. SM must break through this year because our chances of a FF decrease dramatically in 2018-2019. I will lead the Fire SM parade if he doesn't get it done in March. No one cares about regular season wins if the E8 is our ceiling. Give me a coach who can do more with less. I miss Lute.

I wasn't being sarcastic. I think elite 8 is the ceiling. Perhaps that changes by the end of the season, but I think it's a fair statement currently.

I'm with you after tonight. I'm sure they'll improve but my FF expectations are gone. It's only going to get harder for SM to get the right players to run his system. We're already paying the price for his negligence (or implicit support) of Book's shady recruiting. His teams aren't worth emotional investment at this point.

rgdeuce wrote:These dudes are all playing like the were knee deep in some locals until 5am.

that is an acceptable reason tbh

CalStateTempe wrote:You all act like you've never seen the trier show before.

Same stuff-different season. Mercurial player.

Mercurial is a kinder adjective than I would use to describe the man whose mirror shows him an image of him in a cape with an S on chest.

You and see Trier the same way, and we always have. He is a selfish purveyor of Hero-ball. I'd like this team better if he was not on it. I wish he had turned pro.

Sorry... there is something about that kid that I have never liked.

Miller has proven that he is loyal to a fault.. and has not yet learned his lesson. That concerns me.

I don't get the hate for Trier for taking over. If everyone else is reserved then someone needs to man up and he does. If it was an issue them Miller needs to address it in time outs. I don't hate Trier for being the only one willing to step up.

Miller said he might go zone when DA and DR are in game together



Does anyone recall what defense lute used in 01 where woods sort of stayed by basket?

I wish there was post game PCs. Ayton seems to always shoot straight, even if he shouldn't at times. He seems to be unaware of how some things come off or doesn't care what people will think. Either way, I would like to know what he thinks of his trip home so far.

Postmaster wrote:Miller said he might go zone when DA and DR are in game together



Does anyone recall what defense lute used in 01 where woods sort of stayed by basket?

when did he say that?
that would be awesome, tho an obvious solution to just about anybody with any bball knowledge

SunnyAZ wrote:

Postmaster wrote:Miller said he might go zone when DA and DR are in game together



Does anyone recall what defense lute used in 01 where woods sort of stayed by basket?

when did he say that?
that would be awesome

1290 post game said that Pascoe got that from Miller after game.

SunnyAZ wrote:I wish there was post game PCs. Ayton seems to always shoot straight, even if he shouldn't at times. He seems to be unaware of how some things come off or doesn't care what people will think. Either way, I would like to know what he thinks of his trip home so far.

Well, he yelled "FUCK" after shaking hands if that's any indication.

I’m getting tired of the random subbing. I hate seeing a coach take a freshman out for making one or two mistakes but leaves an upper classman that is making a bunch more. Miller needs to set his foot down and demand Defense from the upper classman.

What I see as a difference from the three wins is lack of ball movement. NC State and MSU both were whipping it around finding a good shot.

Is there some kind of dissension in the locker room? What happened to the team that was killing it?

And wow, a couple of losses and the can't-miss cats that you ya'll were lauding last week are now a bunch of good-for-nothing bench warmers.

Am so pissed and disappointed with this TO / poor defense / poor shooting crap. If we lose to ASSU in Football this could be one of the worst weeks (other than NCAA Tourney heartbreaks) in UA Sports that I can recall. WTH is going on? Who pissed God off?

This sucks.

TatetheGreat wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:It'll be good enough to win a bunch of games this year and reach the elite 8.

I think you're being sarcastic, but that would be an utter failure of a season with the talent we have. SM must break through this year because our chances of a FF decrease dramatically in 2018-2019. I will lead the Fire SM parade if he doesn't get it done in March. No one cares about regular season wins if the E8 is our ceiling. Give me a coach who can do more with less. I miss Lute.

That's just stupid. This whole post is just stupid and reactionary. I get the frustration of not getting a Final Four. But to even broach the subject of firing Miller if he doesn't get us a Final Four this season is asinine. This is the same kind of talk that was floated in the early 90's with Lute, right before the '94 season. On paper, the '93 team was loaded. A senior seven footer. A do it all 3-man who in Chris Mills. And a backcourt of Stoudamire and Reeves. And all that team did was flame out in the first round after a 17-1 run through the Pac.

The only reason I would even entertain the Fire Miller discussion is if he egregiously broke NCAA rules with total disregard. And I doubt that's the case.

psiclist23 wrote:What I see as a difference from the three wins is lack of ball movement. NC State and MSU both were whipping it around finding a good shot.

Is there some kind of dissension in the locker room? What happened to the team that was killing it?

And wow, a couple of losses and the can't-miss cats that you ya'll were lauding last week are now a bunch of good-for-nothing bench warmers.

Lack of ball movement is a killer IMO. It's clear that Ayton and Trier are head and shoulders above the rest of the roster when it comes to talent and production right now. But to win games, we need ball movement. Just keep whipping the ball in and out and around until someone has a wide open look. Trier and Ayton will get theirs. But if this team is going to go anywhere, guys like Akot, Randolph, Barcello, Lee and eventually Alkins are going to have to play a significant role.

Postmaster wrote:Miller said he might go zone when DA and DR are in game together



Does anyone recall what defense lute used in 01 where woods sort of stayed by basket?

1-3-1. Or a 1-2-1-1 variation. Woods was in the middle and Gardner ran the baseline on the back end of the zone. We also played a decent amount of 2-3 zone. Gardner was a liability against bigger guards and Woods was a liability on the perimeter. His shot blocking ability made it logical to keep him in the paint. I imagine Miller is beginning to have the same revelation regarding Ayton and PJC. We're just not cut out for man to man defense despite it being my preference.

zonagrad wrote:

TatetheGreat wrote:

PieceOfMeat wrote:It'll be good enough to win a bunch of games this year and reach the elite 8.

I think you're being sarcastic, but that would be an utter failure of a season with the talent we have. SM must break through this year because our chances of a FF decrease dramatically in 2018-2019. I will lead the Fire SM parade if he doesn't get it done in March. No one cares about regular season wins if the E8 is our ceiling. Give me a coach who can do more with less. I miss Lute.

That's just stupid. This whole post is just stupid and reactionary. I get the frustration of not getting a Final Four. But to even broach the subject of firing Miller if he doesn't get us a Final Four this season is asinine. This is the same kind of talk that was floated in the early 90's with Lute, right before the '94 season. On paper, the '93 team was loaded. A senior seven footer. A do it all 3-man who in Chris Mills. And a backcourt of Stoudamire and Reeves. And all that team did was flame out in the first round after a 17-1 run through the Pac.

The only reason I would even entertain the Fire Miller discussion is if he egregiously broke NCAA rules with total disregard. And I doubt that's the case.

I doubt it's Pitino-level bad, but Miller is responsible for keeping Book around. You don't work, travel, and socialize with a guy for over a decade and have no inkling of his character and recruiting "techniques." If Miller was oblivious to everything, his ability to lead a program should be questioned.

I don't think it's at all reactionary to fire a coach after nine seasons. We must have very different expectations/aspirations for Arizona BB because you acknowledge the lack of postseason success and the investigation yet ridicule the notion of him being on the hot seat. Unlike Lute in the early '90s, Miller has zero FFs. Lute had two (one at Iowa). As a program, we are not trending in the right direction.

We have a loaded roster, but might get swept by three teams who have no business beating us -- even in November. I hope it all turns around in March, but what gives you that impression? Miller's superior Xs and Os?

All told, we are underachieving at present, next year's class has gone to shit, the future is a huge question mark, and we're known as the team who chokes in March. You can ride or die with Miller, but I'm willing to move on.