Re: The 2021-2022 Season Thread
Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:49 pm
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Ok count me out has a UCLA has this conference wrapped up type guy. UCLA had a phenomenal March and played great and deserves credit for a great tourney run. Final 4 is what we are all hoping for but let's just look a bit beyond that. Do you know what UCLA's overall record was? 19-12. Do you remember they had to play in the Bobby Hurley playin game and it went to overtime (granted they played Mich State which is tougher than most play in games.) Oregon has probably the best two big man recruits coming in and they have done their magic in the portal once again. We should see rather quickly if UCLA is a juggernaut that only continues to build from last season and becomes a threat for an undefeated PAC 12 season (never been done) or was the tourney a fluke compared to their regular season results and conference tourney loss. The beginning of seasons will tell me a lot.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:21 am Potentially another big year for the Pac. Biggest difference for UCLA this year, imo, is that they're no longer under the radar. Everyone sees them coming, and opposing coaches should be better prepared. They're loaded, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them fall short of those lofty expectations.
Oregon is always in the hunt. I wonder what's up with OSU, Colorado, USC...all did well this past March.
Will be interesting to see what Tommy Boy can do in year one.
So Katz considered Oregon State, Colorado and Washington State but not ArizonaBeachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 am https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... NewsSearch
AZ not in the top 36 here.
Well, OSU and Colorado did very well in March, so that makes sense. Not sure who each team loses.84Cat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:26 amSo Katz considered Oregon State, Colorado and Washington State but not ArizonaBeachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 am https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... NewsSearch
AZ not in the top 36 here.
It seems like a lot of those rankings are tourney and recency based. Like OSU, we beat them by 30+ in Corvallis before their big run in the Pac and NCAA. UCLA too, they played great in the NCAA, but didn't look anywhere near a top 5 team otherwise.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:35 amWell, OSU and Colorado did very well in March, so that makes sense. Not sure who each team loses.84Cat wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:26 amSo Katz considered Oregon State, Colorado and Washington State but not ArizonaBeachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:20 am https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... NewsSearch
AZ not in the top 36 here.
Washington State is a head scratcher. They were 7-12 in league play last season, 14-13 overall. Lost in their first Pac tourney game.
It's clear to me that the national media isn't giving AZ any benefit of the doubt in the preseason forecasts. We'll have to earn respect with wins, which is how it should be, imo.
I get the sense your either worried or down on this hire and season...gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:58 am Maybe Tommy will read these and realize the roster he is planning to put out there with only 9 scholarship players is not going to cut it. Though it may be to late now after sitting on his hands as all the transfers picked schools.
Yeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.
I am counting players who will actually play more than walk-on mop up time, but ok.
I get his point - it's 9 dudes who you can play (Kerr, Larsson, Benn, Dalen, Shane, Kier, Azuolas, Koloko, Ballo) plus a development dude (Bal) and the other Tubelis.
Nowell is the only one I'd be happy about having a role. He has good upside, depends on how fast he acclimates.
I'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:52 amYeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.
I didnt realize Gonzaga only went 7 deep last year so that makes me feel a little better. I dont feel like we have the minute hoggers that Gonzaga had with studs like Timme , Suggs, Kispert and Ayayi outside of Tubelis and Mathurin, but I could see getting 22-27 minutes of solid play from Kriisa, Larsson and either Terry or Kerr.YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:58 amI get his point - it's 9 dudes who you can play (Kerr, Larsson, Benn, Dalen, Shane, Kier, Azuolas, Koloko, Ballo) plus a development dude (Bal) and the other Tubelis.
Realistically most years we struggle to play more than 9 guys - I think coaches have to actively attempt to play ten guys through a season on a team that isn't suffering significant injuries. Usually they're extending the bench just trying to get guys minutes to keep them engaged.
It's 7 guys getting good minutes and everyone else is garbage time / situational. Here were Gonzaga's seven guys last season:
6'1" - Adam Cook
6'4" - Jalen Suggs
6'5" - Andrew Nembhard
6'5" - Joel Ayayi
6'7" - Corey Kispert
6'8" - Anton Watson
6'10" - Drew Timme
Here is our top 7:
6'3" - Kerr Kriisa
6'4" - Justin Kier
6'5" - Pelle Larsson
6'7" - Benn Mathurin
6'7" - Dalen Terry
6'11" - Azuolas Tubelis
7'1" - Christian Koloko
With Shane Nowell (6'5") and Omar Ballo (7'0") off the bench, and Adama Bal (6'7") just in case. It's enough to compete in a season assuming limited injuries, and it will aid in the development of all of these players to get good reps without feeling like the ups and downs of developing is going to prevent them from getting minutes. There's still competition at every position.
I like our guys. I don't know quite what we're going to get out of Terry and Koloko, but the rest (a potential starting five) I feel good about.
So you're saying Lloyd botched this year's roster?Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:07 pmI'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:52 amYeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.
All 4 of those guys were semi-achievable to keep, perhaps even openly a situation where Lloyd told them to pursue other opportunities.
I don't levy huge blame for Tyty and Kaluma, but I don't understand the logic with Ballo/Brown and Simpson and Dezonie. I'd have kept those 3.
I'm saying it's not what I would have done. I'm not Lloyd, and I never will be. I don't see the attractiveness of Ballo and would have tried to retain Brown or get a grad transfer big.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:28 pmSo you're saying Lloyd botched this year's roster?Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:07 pmI'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:52 amYeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.
All 4 of those guys were semi-achievable to keep, perhaps even openly a situation where Lloyd told them to pursue other opportunities.
I don't levy huge blame for Tyty and Kaluma, but I don't understand the logic with Ballo/Brown and Simpson and Dezonie. I'd have kept those 3.
Well, we're not going to be the number one team in the nation and have those same studs, but we're still probably going to give 30min/g or so to four guys, 20-25min/g to guys 5, 6, and 7, and then 5-10 min to guys 8 and 9 as needed. That's in a game, not across the season (where min/g only counts in the games you've played in, not as an avg across every game).gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:14 pm I didnt realize Gonzaga only went 7 deep last year so that makes me feel a little better. I dont feel like we have the minute hoggers that Gonzaga had with studs like Timme , Suggs, Kispert and Ayayi outside of Tubelis and Mathurin, but I could see getting 22-27 minutes of solid play from Kriisa, Larsson and either Terry or Kerr.
If the decision to part ways with Simpson and Dezonie was Lloyd’s, we might be pointing to that in a few years as a big mistake made early on that retarded our program’s ability to quickly get back to the upper echelon.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:33 pmI'm saying it's not what I would have done. I'm not Lloyd, and I never will be. I don't see the attractiveness of Ballo and would have tried to retain Brown or get a grad transfer big.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:28 pmSo you're saying Lloyd botched this year's roster?Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:07 pmI'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:52 amYeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.
All 4 of those guys were semi-achievable to keep, perhaps even openly a situation where Lloyd told them to pursue other opportunities.
I don't levy huge blame for Tyty and Kaluma, but I don't understand the logic with Ballo/Brown and Simpson and Dezonie. I'd have kept those 3.
Simpson and Dezonie, people say they didn't really fit Lloyd's system. Well, I'd rather they got a year to figure out if they did or didn't. If they didn't and wanted to transfer, at least we'd have them as a 21-22 option. Right now, if Kier or Kerr goes down, we are fudged at PG. I don't see how a test year with the two of them would have hurt us or them.
Yeah, I mean I don't claim to be an insider. People posted Lloyd at least met with Simpson before he was released, so I'd assumed at a bare minimum there was a possibility KJ could be retained, especially because Akinjo bailed fairly fast.
We're talking about the contents of a black box, with info from a couple of folks who heard from someone who knows someone who shook the box and listened for clues. We don't know what was in the hearts and heads of these dudes who we didn't/couldn't/wouldn't retain; we don't know what Lloyd's intentions or hopes were.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:51 pmYeah, I mean I don't claim to be an insider. People posted Lloyd at least met with Simpson before he was released, so I'd assumed at a bare minimum there was a possibility KJ could be retained, especially because Akinjo bailed fairly fast.
Ultimately, he was committed to Arizona for a couple days post-Miller and I'd personally have tried to keep him on board. If that wasn't possible...well, that is why I advertise lack of insider knowledge. I mainly know what i'd have liked.
I give that somewhat limited value in that Lloyd's calling card is allegedly player development. Guys in the 80's and 90's nationally are a good fit for that, and I'd liked them as part of Miller's multiyear movement.YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 3:59 pmWe're talking about the contents of a black box, with info from a couple of folks who heard from someone who knows someone who shook the box and listened for clues. We don't know what was in the hearts and heads of these dudes who we didn't/couldn't/wouldn't retain; we don't know what Lloyd's intentions or hopes were.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Wed Jul 14, 2021 2:51 pmYeah, I mean I don't claim to be an insider. People posted Lloyd at least met with Simpson before he was released, so I'd assumed at a bare minimum there was a possibility KJ could be retained, especially because Akinjo bailed fairly fast.
Ultimately, he was committed to Arizona for a couple days post-Miller and I'd personally have tried to keep him on board. If that wasn't possible...well, that is why I advertise lack of insider knowledge. I mainly know what i'd have liked.
It's worth noting that none of the players went to a better program and none would have been slotted for more than reserve minutes if they came to Arizona.
I thought this was going to be a focus for him in the off-season and yet here he is again with 190 pounds on his 6’7” frame.
Look, gradient is the entire reason we didn't make a Final Four in 16-17, the reason Buffalo beat us, the reason Book got caught and the reason Miller's tenure had an ugly end.
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 12:58 pm Look, gradient is the entire reason we didn't make a Final Four in 16-17, the reason Buffalo beat us, the reason Book got caught and the reason Miller's tenure had an ugly end.
errrrrIrish27 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:33 am Looks like the Illinois game is winnable now, https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... rs-portal/.
Beating them on the road would be so nice.
The Omar Ballo gameJefe wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 4:10 pmerrrrrIrish27 wrote: ↑Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:33 am Looks like the Illinois game is winnable now, https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... rs-portal/.
Beating them on the road would be so nice.
See, I liked the duct tape uniforms better than gradient. Other than the duct tape, those were just plain, but not strange.Merkin wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 1:15 pm Gradients for MBB was much better than those for the football program.
The tight tank tops with loose baggy shorts was my least favorite look.
Same with the unis with the duct tape on the shoulders.
Outside of the butt hugger era, but that's a given. Although I wore plenty of those, but Steve Kerr is closer to my age than Derrick Williams.
So, for me, the shoulder patch is a negative. The remainder of the jersey is basically the 97 jersey.
Almost 30 years later, I still think this look is bad as fuck. I love everything about it.Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Fri Jul 16, 2021 7:01 pmSo, for me, the shoulder patch is a negative. The remainder of the jersey is basically the 97 jersey.
The shorts are what kill that for me. Other than my hatred of gradient, those are the worst shorts Arizona basketball has ever had.
Yeah as someone who wore really baggy shorts around my ass in the early 2000s...I don't know how anyone ever thought that was good.Longhorned wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:37 pm In the 90s and 00s, I couldn't believe how bad the tight little 80s uniforms looked.
Now I can't believe how bad the oversized 90s and 00s uniforms look. Everyone, including Khalid right there, look like they're wearing cinched tunics in a Fellini movie.
Look at how those dudes dressed on draft night. Pinstriped circus tents as far as the eye could see.Longhorned wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:37 pm In the 90s and 00s, I couldn't believe how bad the tight little 80s uniforms looked.
Now I can't believe how bad the oversized 90s and 00s uniforms look. Everyone, including Khalid right there, look like they're wearing cinched tunics in a Fellini movie.
I feel like things might have swung too far back the other way. See below.ASUHATER! wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:47 pmYeah as someone who wore really baggy shorts around my ass in the early 2000s...I don't know how anyone ever thought that was good.Longhorned wrote: ↑Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:37 pm In the 90s and 00s, I couldn't believe how bad the tight little 80s uniforms looked.
Now I can't believe how bad the oversized 90s and 00s uniforms look. Everyone, including Khalid right there, look like they're wearing cinched tunics in a Fellini movie.