Bear Down Wildcats

At this point I don't even know if we finish in the top 3 of the conference. Probably a tournament bubble team.

ASUHATER! wrote:At this point I don't even know if we finish in the top 3 of the conference. Probably a tournament bubble team.

What do you want to bet? Name the price.

PHXCATS wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:At this point I don't even know if we finish in the top 3 of the conference. Probably a tournament bubble team.

What do you want to bet? Name the price.

*mod edit*

this type of post is wholly unacceptable. stop it.

luteformayor2 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:At this point I don't even know if we finish in the top 3 of the conference. Probably a tournament bubble team.

What do you want to bet? Name the price.

The problem with betting ASUHATER is that he actually will start routing for us to lose out and not make the tourney. Just like how he routed for Ray Smith's knee to fail.

I never have done anything remotely similar to anything you just posted. Whats the point of lying and slandering like this?

I just need to step away from the board. I'm in the mood to snap at anyone else's opinion. We're about to be a fucking .500 team.

Routed lol.

Just had a new baby girl born on Saturday. Since then Arizona football lost, basketball has lost 2 going on 3 times, and my Cowboys looked stupid on Sunday. Good thing she's cute.

Phylek wrote:Just had a new baby girl born on Saturday. Since then Arizona football lost, basketball has lost 2 going on 3 times, and my Cowboys looked stupid on Sunday. Good thing she's cute.

If you weren't a new father!!!



and big congrats Phylek!

Way too much talent and even experience on AZ’s squad for the team not be competitive or not to be able to take out teams with less talent. Clearly the FBI investigation, loss of recruits, injury to Alkins and overall state of the program is weighing heavy on the coaching staff and players. It is really unbelievable. Book Richardson and $15K is dismantling this program at record pace. Losses happen, but three in row with this kind of talent is a serious problem, and that is not an exaggeration.

I know it is probably meaningless, but we better hear about a players only meeting after this mess:

I'm speechless. To give up the shooting percentages Arizona has given up the last several games is beyond the pale. Just unfathomable.

I don't have an answer for Miller. At this point, I think Miller needs to announce that every second of playing time is predicated on defensive effort and ability. You are either playing your ass off on the defensive end or you are not playing. At all.

It can't be about strategy at this point. Zone. Man to man. It makes no difference in scheme if the effort isn't there.

Maybe Romar has been a bad influence (I'm kidding of course). But this is just surreal.

Phylek wrote:Just had a new baby girl born on Saturday. Since then Arizona football lost, basketball has lost 2 going on 3 times, and my Cowboys looked stupid on Sunday. Good thing she's cute.

Have you checked her head for any signs of a 666???

Main Event wrote:It's about that time we just run the offense through Ayton. You get benched if you take a non wide open shot without him touching the ball on a possession and that includes Zo. You're never getting a player like him again so act like it and ride him

This still stands

Main Event wrote:

Main Event wrote:It's about that time we just run the offense through Ayton. You get benched if you take a non wide open shot without him touching the ball on a possession and that includes Zo. You're never getting a player like him again so act like it and ride him

This still stands

In Zo's defense, he did have zero rebounds, 1 assist and (the Bryce Alford special) zero personal fouls tonight.

SCCats wrote:

Main Event wrote:

Main Event wrote:It's about that time we just run the offense through Ayton. You get benched if you take a non wide open shot without him touching the ball on a possession and that includes Zo. You're never getting a player like him again so act like it and ride him

This still stands

In Zo's defense, he did have zero rebounds, 1 assist and (the Bryce Alford special) zero personal fouls tonight.

Trier is the type of player that Lute Olson would have said......."Has the basketball floor tiled towards the offensive end"

SCCats wrote:

Main Event wrote:

Main Event wrote:It's about that time we just run the offense through Ayton. You get benched if you take a non wide open shot without him touching the ball on a possession and that includes Zo. You're never getting a player like him again so act like it and ride him

This still stands

In Zo's defense, he did have zero rebounds, 1 assist and (the Bryce Alford special) zero personal fouls tonight.

The best think Trier can do right now is to focus his attention on EVERYTHING but scoring. Let the shots come naturally if he's open. But really, he should commit himself to defense, rebounding and getting everyone else involved. Especially Ayton. Run everything through him in the post and see where this goes.

Naturally, I think Trier feels pressure to carry this team. And he's simply trying too hard by scoring and playing hero ball. He needs to do the exact opposite and be as selfless as possible. Lead by example by being the defensive leader, the effort leader, the dive on the floor leader, the rebounding leader, etc... If he can empty himself of any selfishness to control the ball and do everything he can to get others going, he can be the leader this team needs.

On the bright side, Randolph finally had a strong night. Build off that, get Alkins back, maybe Trier comes back down to earth, and we can figure out our offense. Defense and rebounding is another story. Thank God we have a home game against a pushover and several practices before we hit the UNLV, A&M, Alabama stretch.

This team is a total train wreck at this point. Overhyped -- not just on this board, overhyped by EVERYONE. Not playing as a team, not playing defense at all. Really, Trier should have turned pro after last season.

Conference play hasn't even started, but already I am more disappointed in this team than I was last year in our football team -- at the END of the season. If this ship doesn't get righted, and fast, we will surely lose 2 to ASsU. They will be close to (maybe even into) the top 10 and we will be out of the top 25 next week. Let THAT sink in.

Are we still pretending there is no problem with the culture in this program?

CatHoops wrote:When were 25-3 will we all Relax? Beardown

ASUHATER! wrote:

luteformayor2 wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

ASUHATER! wrote:At this point I don't even know if we finish in the top 3 of the conference. Probably a tournament bubble team.

What do you want to bet? Name the price.

The problem with betting ASUHATER is that he actually will start routing for us to lose out and not make the tourney. Just like how he routed for Ray Smith's knee to fail.

I never have done anything remotely similar to anything you just posted. Whats the point of lying and slandering like this?

Next time, please use the report post function and don't quote someone who says something like this.

the user has been warned and his post edited

You know its been a bad night when BOTH Enfarto and SitandCrap are making multiple posts.

I'm going to bed. Tomorrow I am going to:

1) Cheer for the Cats against the scum at 2:30
2) Buy tickets to the UA/A&M game in Phx (have to support the Cats)
3) Give thanks that when I wake up I'm a Cats fan and not a Sun Gerbil

Good Night

could use someone like justin simon right about now

I don’t even know what to say. I’m 33 years old, been a cat fan since I was a little kid, and in that time I’ve never seen an AZ team play so lackadaisical on defense, just no fire or battle in them, completely soft, uncompetitive basketball in three straight games. Even during the transition years post-Lute or Miller’s first year the teams still played with more hunger and competed. Maybe it’s just a fluke playing three games in a short span down in the Bahamas, kind of like having one dud of a game but instead of just one it is basically three dud games. Or maybe there is something there when talking about Book, possible sanctions/turmoil hanging over Miller’s head?? Not being one hundred percent mentally at peace can really fuck with people and have exponential consequences. I’m at a loss, hopefully Miller can right the ship quickly.

Everyone is at a loss. Those who aren't are fooling themselves. Watched a lot of basketball in recent days. Other teams are just better. They are playing at a higher level, with more confidence and cohesion. There isn't one thing that will fix this. There isn't one thing Arizona does well.

I thought it was defense. Then it became defense and rebounding. Now it's offense, defense and rebounding. Hell, can't make free throws anymore either.

Offense: A blind person could defend this team. Dribble up, pass to left wing, catch a back screen, doesn't work, circle back to top, initiate again. Go through motions of setting screens. No backside action. Just watch the guy who has the ball.

Defense: Get into defensive stance (if we must). When ball is moved side to side, get lost. Commence scramble drill. On the perimeter, go for ball fake, get blown by, nobody steps in. On the off-chance someone does help, flip it to perimeter for wide open shot. If shot misses,get ready to "defend" again.

It is, frankly, shocking.

Yea good post, completely agree Gumby. We’ve probably all seen decent local rec league teams with way more cohesiveness and consistency on both sides of the ball. Crazy.

I may be fooling myself to have a explanation, but here goes:

The personality of this group of players is softer than most levels of softness reached by the vast majority of soft teams. That’s a result of a gap between very young players new to the system and seniors who are wholly unprepared to lead them, which is a rare quality in seniors. The bridge between them is Trier, who is an interstitial wing player who needs a place in a system that he can’t build or maintain because his very purpose is to exploit the spaces between the supporting members. What we’re seeing now results from a lack of leadership in the face of adversity in the first game. You don’t fix bad effort on defense by starting to defend but not thinking to rebound on the miss. Unless the upperclassmen start to rally around a freshman, or Rawle can establish himself as the floor leader, my guess is this problem can’t be fixed.

Longhorned wrote:I may be fooling myself to have a explanation, but here goes:

The personality of this group of players is softer than most levels of softness reached by the vast majority of soft teams. That’s a result of a gap between very young players new to the system and seniors who are wholly unprepared to lead them, which is a rare quality in seniors. The bridge between them is Trier, who is an interstitial wing player who needs a place in a system that he can’t build or maintain because his very purpose is to exploit the spaces between the supporting members. What we’re seeing now results from a lack of leadership in the face of adversity in the first game. You don’t fix bad effort on defense by starting to defend but not thinking to rebound on the miss. Unless the upperclassmen start to rally around a freshman, or Rawle can establish himself as the floor leader, my guess is this problem can’t be fixed.

I can buy this to an extent but this is 100 percent on Miller

OK, my two cents. & I have to admit, I only listened to the three Bahama games - I didn't see them. I'm young enough where I could watch something on espn3 but I'm old enough where I don't give a shit & am too lazy & convinced myself I'd enjoy listening to the audio like years ago for kicks.

Plus I'm one of the bigger homers/sun is always shining on Coach & the players posters around too. So there are all my up-fronts.

Team has not prepared well. Have to think it's a little on players & coaches but mostly on CSM & then Trier. But. These are a talented, proud group - especially those two. It's still November. I know I'm not the first one to point this out but I also don't feel like it's getting much traction.

Plenty of time to turn this into a positive. & I'm not talking about '97 comparisons - though this team ends up a 5 plus seed & we're all going to be reading A LOT of those.

I guess my point is - this team is a couple wins over UNLV & TA&M away from calming everyone down. Will they get them? Sure doesn't seem like it after the last three days - but after the first two weeks this was unimaginable too. PJC & Trier have to lead, Miller has to find a way to up the effort & the chemistry. Perhaps at the cost of blindly sticking to his decisions.


Kentucky has had a couple different teams who started horribly & figured it out. We'd all be silly to think that's a long shot for this team.

I couldn't even muster the strength to watch. Nothing was changing in 22 hours. Turns out, nothing did change.

Need a break from this mess right now.

Purdue turned it around. I watched to see which team would.

legallykenny wrote:Are we still pretending there is no problem with the culture in this program?

Interesting thought. Perhaps, the weight of the looming investigation/witch hunt has everyone on edge. Or maybe not having Book on the bench coaching has been detrimental.

Whatever is wrong, this is the worst feeling I have had about a U of A team in years. It's tough to see them as anymore than a middle of the road PAC-12 team at this point in time.

at the end of the day, this team isn't as good as anyone thought, of course that's obvious now in hindsight

the two seniors shouldn't be starting tbh, ristic and pjc should be the backups, they are not good enough. pinder is a depth guy, nothing more. have no other viable pg behind pjc, the most important position

besides ayton we have no impact freshman good enough to get minutes and contribute consistently, maybe only akot on defense

because of that, this team isn't as deep as we thought it was, this team doesn't have a bench,

the two starting seniors are softer than soft and aren't leaders, trier definitely isn't leader either, and we all know his hero ball schtick. So no leaders

this 2017-2018 team is essentially a two man team with ayton/trier, it will be three when rawle comes back

There have been a couple of comments about Book NOT being on the bench possibly having something to do with the problems. But I haven't seen any comments about Romar being ON the bench as possibly having anything to do with this team's issues. Not saying that has anything to do with it. But we do have a head coach with one offensive/defensive philosophy and a high level assistant with a different philosophy. Could the players be getting mixed signals from the coaches, depending on which one is talking to them at the time?

After a night to sleep and some time to reflect, it seems a few things are evident:

1) There is no point in playing Dylan and Pinder
2) The freshman need to get serious minutes because the seniors are not leaders
3) Ayton needs to be center and Dusan off the bench to relieve him, less than 10 minutes a game. They should never be on the floor together.
4) Trier should move to point guard. By putting him a in a role of forced creation of the offense on a team level, he will potentially lose the head games of having to score. He has shown the ability to run point and PJC is our biggest flaw.
5) Trier, Randolph, Akot, Lee, Ayton needs to be starting lineup until Rawle gets back. We saw last year how when Trier was out, the freshman got so much learning experience and the team blossomed (until trier returned).
6) Every possession goes through Ayton. Period.

BBQ wildcat wrote: But I haven't seen any comments about Romar being ON the bench as possibly having anything to do with this team's issues. Not saying that has anything to do with it. But we do have a head coach with one offensive/defensive philosophy and a high level assistant with a different philosophy. Could the players be getting mixed signals from the coaches, depending on which one is talking to them at the time?

I have wondered about this but haven't commented on it yet. Again, as you say, I would also say this doesn't necessarily have anything to do with our issues; we don't have hard evidence we can point to. But it's not impossible to believe that either mixed signals are being sent, or that some Romar influence (that we had hoped for in the off season) caused Sean to change up his defense first teachings early in the season which at least partially led to whatever that was in the Bahamas.

Lots of moving parts so impossible to know exactly. And this could easily not be an issue. But it also easily could be as well.

The problem with putting Trier at PG is his ball handling. He had 3, 5, and 4 turnovers in the Bahamas. We really have no good options at the position.

TatetheGreat wrote:The problem with putting Trier at PG is his ball handling. He had 3, 5, and 4 turnovers in the Bahamas. We really have no good options at the position.

And assists were 1-3-1. Very poor ratio.

Trier at point is a joke. It's just sad that we don't have a point to distribute.

As I'm digesting what could be the source of the problem, something obvious is surfacing. It deals with recruiting, and especially deals with one-and-done players. This can be seen in hindsight and its result becomes a radical inconsistency from year to year. The turnover of players is so high at Arizona that you just don't know what you are going to get, and the players can't develop together fully as a team (iso ball is the sign of the times at elite levels). You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't get the right mix of players everything can fall apart. You can't just consider ranking of the players either for each position. You also have to look at each player's mental and emotional IQ, for there is a mental and emotional aspect to the game. And these types of qualities aren't valued as much as talent. That is a big mistake. The mental aspect of being scrappy is important too when considering a recruit. How about an enforcer? Give me more players who want to work hard, and have a high basketball IQ, but maybe not as talented , and want to stay in college to develop their game (TJ McConnell). And less players who have NBA stars in their eyes. Maybe one lottery pick as the catalyst, possible two if they compliment each other.

The Cats have many players who haven't played together until this year. And almost all of our recruits are thinking more about the NBA instead of college. It has created an unbalanced team, mainly because they are having a hard time understanding how to play as a team. If I were CSM I would be playing players who are willing to fill the roles needed to make the team complete (I'm not sure this can happen).

Basketball is an art and should be treated as such. When the colors of the game flow properly on the canvas of the floor, the entire team painting is beautiful to behold. That is why when the mix of players is right, and roles are accepted, basketball is a very enjoyable game to watch.

IMO, CSM needs to reassess the way he recruits. Maybe not looking so much for talent as how the players will fit into a team mold. This year we need a scrappy player, and more players who take pride playing stifling defense, or who demand the rebound. Something we severely lack. We also don't have an enforcer.

As far as the current team goes, they really need to work hard. I believe our freshmen are struggling specifically because they are so talented. They thought things would come easy for them. I hope they now see college as a whole different level of competition, and as a challenge. I'm not sure how good this team can be because there are some glaring weaknesses, and the season is still young. I have my doubts that the coaches will be able to fix all the issues. We lack a leader, a scrappy player, and an enforcer. Rawle will help in these roles. But I'm afraid it is not enough and others will need to step up. Unless we have players willing to sacrifice and play needed roles, this will be a disappointing season.

yes

Great post cith!

Thought Barcello was that scrappy player. But turned into a turnover machine who couldn't score.

But a true frosh, who really can't quite yet be compared to a player who had 2 years at a mid major and a redshirt year at Arizona.

Merkin wrote:Thought Barcello was that scrappy player. But turned into a turnover machine who couldn't score.

But a true frosh, who really can't quite yet be compared to a player who had 2 years at a mid major and a redshirt year at Arizona.

He is that player. You just can’t expect him to be it until probably his junior and senior year (and if we’re lucky partially his sophomore year).

While our team didn't play well, part of me still thinks playing 10 pm start local time games in a Bahamian ballroom over holiday just doesn't seem like an accurate forum to really evaluate a team. Weird boxed in court, low ceiling, not exactly ncaa tourney site conditions.

TheGreatCatsby wrote:While our team didn't play well, part of me still thinks playing 10 pm start local time games in a Bahamian ballroom over holiday just doesn't seem like an accurate forum to really evaluate a team. Weird court, low ceiling, at least most ncaa tourney sites are nothing like that.

I see no disadvantage, everyone had to play on that court. Plus you would think later starts would favor Arizona. Games started about the time they start in Tucson.

Catintheheat wrote:As I'm digesting what could be the source of the problem, something obvious is surfacing. It deals with recruiting, and especially deals with one-and-done players. This can be seen in hindsight and its result becomes a radical inconsistency from year to year. The turnover of players is so high at Arizona that you just don't know what you are going to get, and the players can't develop together fully as a team (iso ball is the sign of the times at elite levels). You can have all the talent in the world but if you don't get the right mix of players everything can fall apart. You can't just consider ranking of the players either for each position. You also have to look at each player's mental and emotional IQ, for there is a mental and emotional aspect to the game. And these types of qualities aren't valued as much as talent. That is a big mistake. The mental aspect of being scrappy is important too when considering a recruit. How about an enforcer? Give me more players who want to work hard, and have a high basketball IQ, but maybe not as talented , and want to stay in college to develop their game (TJ McConnell). And less players who have NBA stars in their eyes. Maybe one lottery pick as the catalyst, possible two if they compliment each other.

IMO, CSM needs to reassess the way he recruits. Maybe not looking so much for talent as how the players will fit into a team mold. This year we need a scrappy player, and more players who take pride playing stifling defense, or who demand the rebound. Something we severely lack. We also don't have an enforcer.

One point I'd make, Cith, is that AZ is certainly not the only program going after the greatest number of "talented" players year after year. Duke, UK, Kansas, UNC, et al. -- the majority of the players they're targeting are ranked in the top 50 nationally. Yet somehow, it's worked out for these teams. More so UK and Duke than the others, in terms of programs who are now utterly dependent on one-and-done talent. Duke is all in on Bagley, Carter, and Duval. When they beat UT yesterday, they had five freshmen on the floor at the end of the game; Allen was on the bench. And next year, they're all in on Barrett, Reddish, and Jones. Do you really think there's some kind of calculus to determine which combination of these elite players will play well together? All they can do is recruit for a spot; sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. UK is all in on Knox, Richards, and Washington this year; either these freshmen gel and find their groove or they flame out early and try again next year. How is a recruiting class of Ayton, Akot, Randolph, Lee, and Barcello different from what's going on at these other programs who've won national titles? It isn't.

The jury is obviously still out on this freshmen group of Cats. They could turn things around in the next couple months and go a long way towards repairing the damage done this past week.

With so much season left to play, there is a golden opportunity for Miller to hit the reset button, get back to basics, and start rebuilding morale. I've never questioned whether Miller struggles to inspire morale because his players seem to like playing for him. We're "a player's program," right? Well, if this is true, then our coach has to find ways to help these players reach their fullest potential this season. PJC is never going to be a good PG; he's an average player who once in a blue moon does something noteworthy. Ristic's limitations have been well documented. That's the bad news. The good news is that Ayton and Trier are elite players. I'm not sure what happened to AT in the Bahamas; he seemed timid and shaky, very unlike him. He'll get his swag back. Akot, Lee, Barcello, Smith...yeah, we need these guys to play hard and smart when they're on the floor. And Miller and the coaches have to work with the freshmen and make them believe they can impact the game.

Anyway, if some are unhappy with our recruiting philosophy, I find that strange since we're following the championship formula used by Duke and UK.