A co-op community for Arizona Fans
http://beardownwildcats.com/
Technically he already quoted it and we're waiting to see who that quote is attributed to.Olsondogg wrote:Can’t think of one time I’ve read that. Care to quote?
What is your problem? I posted that yesterday at the moment it was announced as a contribution to this thread, not as some sort ploy to present myself as an "expert." I also presented an opinion. Isn't that what most of us are doing? Talking through this, presenting opinions and interpretations? Your obnoxious response is bizarre to say the least....Jwsisliving wrote:Thanks for the great information. Now that I've heard it from such an expert with such great sources I'm definitely prepared to jump shipmidnightx wrote:It is official: Pitino is out.
This is going to get ugly. And not just for Arizona (don't be surprised if the 2018 recruiting class disappears from decommits), but a number of the individuals and entities that are being indicted by the DOJ could conceivably try to make deals, and expose much greater and wider corruption. If five star recruits are receiving money and it is a widespread throughout college basketball's major programs, don't be surprised if other major programs are exposed down the road.
It will be a completely new landscape in CBB after this. The individual that takes the biggest hit here won't be Pitino or any school. It will be the NCAA. The entire charade is crashing down.Longhorned wrote:There's a pattern of misreading the situation in this thread: this notion that there's a segment of posters who are in denial. Nobody in this thread has shown doubts that Arizona basketball as we know it is doomed. That's not the issue. The issue is whether all of college basketball as we know it is doomed.
Most of us (me included) do not believe this is about Emmanuel Richardson and how much Sean Miller is responsible for him.
Most of the world who reports on this situation and follows it (me included) suspect that Book is a termite in a larger structure held up many termites who have eaten the wood, and we wonder whether it's about to get exposed and collapse.
Some of us (me included) are rooting for the whole structure to collapse, and hope this will lead to building a new structure around which college basketball can operate legally, and not at the sole expense of the fans and players.
The Pastner Era? Because we need to get on the straight and narrow?BE4RDOWN21 wrote:If anyone thinks that this ends well for Miller, you are naive. Let's just accept the fact that we will be renting Romar for the season and then we'll make way for the Pastner era to begin.
97cats wrote:Pastner = zero chance
Insurance fraud? UCLA flooded it themselves to collect the insurance to renovate didn't they?Olsondogg wrote:Also. Feds apparently want to see that Pauley renovation up close...
That's reality. No adjustment needed.JMarkJohns wrote:Can someone tell me how to feel? Because I'm depressed as stepped on shit.
Yeah, that's a hoot. Plus, and I don't mean this as a slam on Romar, because this is how the business is, but our interim is the guy who scored Michael Porter Jr. by offering Porter's dad an assistant coach position.Harvey Specter wrote:The Pastner Era? Because we need to get on the straight and narrow?BE4RDOWN21 wrote:If anyone thinks that this ends well for Miller, you are naive. Let's just accept the fact that we will be renting Romar for the season and then we'll make way for the Pastner era to begin.
The Josh Pastner who:
Grew up coaching in the Houston Hoops AAU program?
Is known as being an effective recruiter BECAUSE OF his knowledge of/ connections on the AAU circuit?
Who worked under (2) coaches that were at the peak of recruiting in the era where this has been rampant?
Yes. If we end up getting in trouble over this, I am sure he is the FIRST guy we will run out and grab so we can get someone squeaky clean to rehabilitate our image.
That's rich.
Agreed. Also, if AZ is going down, it would be nice to see the Feds rip the lid off the entire problem and expose everyone. Why make one major program and some second-tier programs examples? It won't stop the problem. If the Feds and later the NCAA nail everyone, the system truly gets changed.CalStateTempe wrote:Thank god re pastner.
I so want ucla to get ensnared and see how Larry scott handles damage to his favorite brand.
BE4RDOWN21 wrote:
If anyone thinks that this ends well for Miller, you are naive. Let's just accept the fact that we will be renting Romar for the season and then we'll make way for the Pastner era to begin.
Wasn't going to take it here, but I will:CatFanOneMil wrote:Because systemic abuse of the rules requires a conspiracy of legions...people are not that loyal, not to the rules of breaking the rules according to rules...scumdevils86 wrote:I don't understand how anyone could not think this was systemic
Corruption ALWAYS manifest...at some point...hell the shoe companies had no way to influence culture in Woodens day like they do today, heck in 1980's when I went to college Nike was barely getting off the ground as far as market placement...to suggest that Div.1 schools have been buying recruits for almost 40 years would leave a pile of bones that could block out the sun...and there is no shadow that big, just this current shadow of a handful of bad folks getting caught.
I stand by my position that its a few bad eggs in the scope of nearly 300 schools...a very few.
If there was available hard evidence, we would have been having this conversation years ago. None of us (to my knowledge) work for the FBI. We don't have the power of subpoena, we can't request warrants, we aren't out investigating.CatFanOneMil wrote: I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.
Please tell me this happens by the end of the week.Olsondogg wrote:Also. Feds apparently want to see that Pauley renovation up close...
When it came to paying players, Sam Gilbert was an artist on the level of Michelangrlo or Jackson Pollock. The second a player even thought he needed money, he would feel the rippling of a soft breeze, like the fluttering wings of a seagull returning to Capistrano. Have you ever been to Capistrano, Dave? The fish tacos are molded by Poseidon himself. The next time the player opened his hand, a $100 would gently slip into it, and he would feel the fluttering breeze again. The player would never see Sam, but always smelled the supple but manly scent of Englsh Leather, Sam's favorite cologne, after it was over.BE4RDOWN21 wrote:The thing that I am dreading the most is Bill Walton's take on this issue for the entirety of the season
Well done. I can't wait to see how the legend of Sam Gilbert grows after all of this!Spaceman Spiff wrote:When it came to paying players, Sam Gilbert was an artist on the level of Michelangrlo or Jackson Pollock. The second a player even thought he needed money, he would feel the rippling of a soft breeze, like the fluttering wings of a seagull returning to Capistrano. Have you ever been to Capistrano, Dave? The fish tacos are molded by Poseidon himself. The next time the player opened his hand, a $100 would gently slip into it, and he would feel the fluttering breeze again. The player would never see Sam, but always smelled the supple but manly scent of Englsh Leather, Sam's favorite cologne, after it was over.BE4RDOWN21 wrote:The thing that I am dreading the most is Bill Walton's take on this issue for the entirety of the season
That's Gold! Jerry, Gold!Spaceman Spiff wrote:When it came to paying players, Sam Gilbert was an artist on the level of Michelangrlo or Jackson Pollock. The second a player even thought he needed money, he would feel the rippling of a soft breeze, like the fluttering wings of a seagull returning to Capistrano. Have you ever been to Capistrano, Dave? The fish tacos are molded by Poseidon himself. The next time the player opened his hand, a $100 would gently slip into it, and he would feel the fluttering breeze again. The player would never see Sam, but always smelled the supple but manly scent of Englsh Leather, Sam's favorite cologne, after it was over.BE4RDOWN21 wrote:The thing that I am dreading the most is Bill Walton's take on this issue for the entirety of the season
Timeline is backwards!BE4RDOWN21 wrote:Insurance fraud? UCLA flooded it themselves to collect the insurance to renovate didn't they?Olsondogg wrote:Also. Feds apparently want to see that Pauley renovation up close...
“No one swings a bigger dick than [Coach-2] at [Adidas]” and added “all [Coach-2] has to do is pick up the phone and call somebody, [and say], ‘These are my guys, they’re taking care of us.’
Good shit dude. Welcome to the board.520in480 wrote:I have been reading the posts in this forum for years. Love the insight and intelligent debate (most of the time). I have never felt compelled to participate, until today.
I have been both depressed and fascinated by this scandal. Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that ASU hired an Adidas guy as an assistant basketball coach recently. This jogged some memories and after just a couple of minutes, I found the following information about ASU, Adidas, and top 2020 recruit, Kyree Walker. These are just dots. I don't know if they connect or not. But given what's been shared on this board regarding the nature of recruiting and the influence shoe companies have in the recruiting process, this seems to fit the script.
July 2015 – ASU officially switches from Nike to Adidas
May 2016 – ASU basketball hires Adidas marketing rep, Anthony Coleman, as an assistant coach. From HouseOfSparky.com, "Coleman will play a critical role in recruiting as his Adidas ties will allow ASU to tap into that portion of the AAU circuit."
April 2017 – Adidas and ASU create international sports center, creating a new faculty position in the process. From BizJournal.com, "Kenneth L. Shropshire, director of the Wharton Sports Business Initiative at the University of Pennsylvania, will become the first Adidas Distinguished Professor of Global Sport at ASU, a brand-new position at the university. Adidas contributed to the position at an undisclosed cost."
June 30, 2017 – Kyree Walker commits to ASU … Announced that Kyree will be attending Hillcrest Prep and his father will be coaching there.
July 2017 – Kyree Walker leaves Nike-sponsored Oakland Soldiers for Adidas-sponsored Dream Vision
Sep. 2017 – Hillcrest Prep announces a partnership with Adidas
Just thought I would share because I was stunned at how easy I found this after I knew what to look for based on the info that's been shared on this site.
Important clarification re Quinerly many seem to be missing.97cats wrote: what did Quinerly get -- 15k
not the standard amount
the plot thickens...........................
Don't forget Fendi Onobun.Merkin wrote:How did Pastner's Houston Pipeline work out?
Ebi Ndudi never showed up.
Jawann McClellan had off court issues along with bum knees
Nic Wise didn't grow after being offered as a freshman
Garland Judkins was kicked off the team
In his analogy, the issue is that the pile of bones doesn't look like a pile of bones, it looks like the structure of the NCAA landscape we know. He's missing that the corruption isn't hidden in the shadows, it's the concrete for the building throwing the shadow.rgdeuce wrote:Wasn't going to take it here, but I will:CatFanOneMil wrote:Because systemic abuse of the rules requires a conspiracy of legions...people are not that loyal, not to the rules of breaking the rules according to rules...scumdevils86 wrote:I don't understand how anyone could not think this was systemic
Corruption ALWAYS manifest...at some point...hell the shoe companies had no way to influence culture in Woodens day like they do today, heck in 1980's when I went to college Nike was barely getting off the ground as far as market placement...to suggest that Div.1 schools have been buying recruits for almost 40 years would leave a pile of bones that could block out the sun...and there is no shadow that big, just this current shadow of a handful of bad folks getting caught.
I stand by my position that its a few bad eggs in the scope of nearly 300 schools...a very few.
What generally happens to people who open their mouths and try to expose pretty much any illicit multi-million/billion dollar conspiracy? Bang bang. And quite often, these kids, their handlers, the AAU guys, etc. come from a place where someone will shoot you over a $50 debt. You don't think these middle men have goons on payroll or in their circles?
What incentive would an Antoine Walker have to come out and expose this stuff when he knows the wolves will come after him and ruin his comfortable/semi-comfortable life? If you think they wouldn't hit a big name, remember that Antoine Walker got robbed at gunpoint in his own hometown after he had been an NBA all star. The average Joe Schmo who never made the NBA but went through the shady college process is an even easier mark. Sprinkle a little coke on the floor and it's just another drug-related homicide in the hood.
And for a "cleaner" version, another reason: What happened to Jose Canseco after he exposed MLB's steroids issue in his book?
If there was available hard evidence, we would have been having this conversation years ago. None of us (to my knowledge) work for the FBI. We don't have the power of subpoena, we can't request warrants, we aren't out investigating.CatFanOneMil wrote: I get that people are SAYING they are in the know...but so far there is very little hard evidence...I am not going to check my brain or my optimism in humanity because a few guys on an anonymous forum tell me they are right and I am naive...I get the basic pessimism...I really do, hell politics is enough to make all of us want to slit our own wrists...but at the end of the day I look at the hard cold facts of data...and humanity as a whole is getting better every day...the numbers do not lie...go watch Gapminder if you doubt.
I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!prh wrote:Multiple places reporting this morning that Pitino is Coach-2 in the complaint-- Coach-2 had direct calls with Gatto
from the criminal complaint:“No one swings a bigger dick than [Coach-2] at [Adidas]” and added “all [Coach-2] has to do is pick up the phone and call somebody, [and say], ‘These are my guys, they’re taking care of us.’
Thank God97cats wrote:Pastner = zero chance
You literally appear to have no idea how the FBI investigation went.RiseAndFire wrote:Important clarification re Quinerly many seem to be missing.97cats wrote: what did Quinerly get -- 15k
not the standard amount
the plot thickens...........................
The complaint says Richardson needed another$15,000 to secure the player, who Dawkins identified as a "top point guard in the country," according to the complaint.
ANOTHER $15k. The extra $15k was just to put the recruitment over the top and lock it up. He was paid far more before the 15k was paid.
that also means Book's cut for Quinerly was far more than the paltry $5k figure ppl are using. And odds are the FBI didn't just happen to stumble upon Books scheme the very first time he ever engaged in it. He'd been funneling all kinds of east coast recruits to miller for years: Parrom, Momo, Sidiki, Lyons, Rondae, Kobi, Rawle
That last sentence has the clubhouse lead as post of the day. But it's early.Spaceman Spiff wrote:You literally appear to have no idea how the FBI investigation went.RiseAndFire wrote:Important clarification re Quinerly many seem to be missing.97cats wrote: what did Quinerly get -- 15k
not the standard amount
the plot thickens...........................
The complaint says Richardson needed another$15,000 to secure the player, who Dawkins identified as a "top point guard in the country," according to the complaint.
ANOTHER $15k. The extra $15k was just to put the recruitment over the top and lock it up. He was paid far more before the 15k was paid.
that also means Book's cut for Quinerly was far more than the paltry $5k figure ppl are using. And odds are the FBI didn't just happen to stumble upon Books scheme the very first time he ever engaged in it. He'd been funneling all kinds of east coast recruits to miller for years: Parrom, Momo, Sidiki, Lyons, Rondae, Kobi, Rawle
The doubly offensive part was that most of Book's recruits were best suited for man to man.
Yeah, I'm not seeing how people are not making the connection here. We are banking on more schools getting dragged into this. We are on day three, dominoes are still falling, we have well-informed people here and in the media telling us this is just the tip of the iceberg... And the ultimate goal is the shoe companies, and nearly every D1 program falls under their umbrella.Longhorned wrote:Yes. But the inevitable next questions asked by everyone are: How does Arizona's exposed offer to one recruit relate to the range of offers of those Arizona was competing against for that commitment? Were there other offers for other recruits?phxcat23 wrote:That's my main question, is that Book went off on his own. But we already had our method of trying to get recruits to go to Arizona. So now that Book got caught doing his side stuff, and with reports that we were in the running for some of these recruits, that exposes that we were still doing something to try to sway recruits.HiCat wrote:Adidas rep said Arizona offered top recruit $150,000, according to another fed complaint
Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star Sep 28, 2017 Updated 3 hrs ago
While local focus largely has been on the federal charges involving Book Richardson, the other prong of the FBI's investigation into college basketball revealed a reference that Arizona may have offered five-star Florida forward Nassir Little $150,000.
http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... a359e.html" target="_blank
The FBI document already mentions three separate offers of $150,000.
I suppose it's possible that everybody closes this inquiry right now and settles on Arizona as the only school that goes down, and the rest of the otherwise clean sport of college basketball marches forward.
The muscle. Or sergeant at arms, Or something. Who knows what motivates gals like this.Puerco wrote:What is your problem? You're crapping on anyone around here who isn't shitting rainbows. Are you that desperate for positive reinforcement?Jwsisliving wrote:You're friend is full of crap but thanks for the contribution.cpt wrote:Friend who has insider info says Miller is out and Romar is in. Not sure how reliable it is but we have a mutual friend who is very tight with Romar.
I would never say, dumb. But I'd want it fleshed out more to see what the landscape would look like once implemented.Longhorned wrote:Are these dumb responses?
gumby wrote: What would the revenue source be?
TV, ticket sales, licensing from numbered jerseys with name on the back
Same for all schools?
No.
Where would the games be played?
Same as now.
Would they have to attend classes, or is that charade continued?
It doesn't have to be a charade. Schools already have a policy of excused absences for road games and tourneys.
If not, what's the connection to college? Or are you advocating the club sport model?
N/A
Who would be "the best players?" Don't pay the others? If not, how to stop them from getting paid under the table?
Equal and shared division of percentage of ticket sales and proceeds and TV. I don't know how to stop anyone from getting paid under the table.
Pay the swimmers and cross country runners, too? Or just the ones in revenue-generating sports? What if basketball doesn't make money at a school? Don't pay those players?
By demand.Most student athletes are just on scholarship without pay.
Pay boys more than girls?
If that's where demand is, which it is.
Who negotiates this pay? Can it be more at one school than another, like the pros?
Yes, more at one school than another.
I'm of the same mind.Olsondogg wrote:Here's how I see it...and anyone can correct me if they so choose.
This is an ongoing FBI investigation that is not focused on the coaches/programs as it's focused on where the "dirty" money comes and goes.
The NCAA was blindsided and has not done anything yet except release a statement. They would be the ones to handle any punishments to the schools/programs.
The questions are then, how long does the FBI take? What will they release? What will be found out? What will the NCAA do with any/all information learned? How long will their subsequent investigation take?
And most important question...if multiple major conference programs are doing the same exact thing, albeit in different ways...how do you punish that? Do you want your cash cow, the Final 4 to consist of the programs left over? Does CBS want that? Does anyone?
It always was. I get the distinct idea the NCAA was blindsided by this because there wasn't exactly a damage control plan in place.azgreg wrote:I think it's clear now that it is in the NCAA's best interest to just let the FBI finish up before they do anything.
The NCAA stated that they didn't know what was happening:Spaceman Spiff wrote:It always was. I get the distinct idea the NCAA was blindsided by this because there wasn't exactly a damage control plan in place.azgreg wrote:I think it's clear now that it is in the NCAA's best interest to just let the FBI finish up before they do anything.
You are in stage 1. I have read this board, and the old AZ message board for years. I am class of 1999. I think you are a good dude and post some good stuff.Olsondogg wrote:How many message boards does slappy visit to post that same thing today? Don't forget to change the program name before posting.
This is false.Slappy wrote:Seeing the 5 stages of grief play out right now.
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
Best to get to acceptance stage. Arizona BB is in deep shit.
What am I in denial about?Slappy wrote:You are in stage 1. I have read this board, and the old AZ message board for years. I am class of 1999. I think you are a good dude and post some good stuff.Olsondogg wrote:How many message boards does slappy visit to post that same thing today? Don't forget to change the program name before posting.
More details, please. Are they employees of the college or the outside forces?Spaceman Spiff wrote:To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.
1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.
Spaceman Spiff wrote:This is false.Slappy wrote:Seeing the 5 stages of grief play out right now.
Denial
Anger
Bargaining
Depression
Acceptance
Best to get to acceptance stage. Arizona BB is in deep shit.
First, I'm not in denial, you are. Next, I'm not angry, but you probably are because your mother's A DISEASED SKANK! I'll be the bigger man, though, and if you remove this post, I won't call you put for trolling. It just makes me so sad we have this filth on our fine board. I guess I just have to come to terms that trolls exist.
