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I'm not the biggest Randolph fan in the world, but I think looping him in with Lee and Smith is a major disservice to the role Randolph has played so far for us this year. He has his flaws, but without him, don't think we beat UConn, or even Utah Valley tbh. Smith and Lee I have no problems hating on though haha97cats wrote:Smith is a ding dong
Lee is a ding dong
Randolph is the king ding dong
We lack scoring and Randolph scores. That's more than Smith or Lee bring, and we need it badly. Williams is the only other guy who can create a shot himself. Jeter is a post option and that's about it. I thought Coleman had potential, but that may only be in games in the non-continental US.97cats wrote:Smith is a ding dong
Lee is a ding dong
Randolph is the king ding dong
Our four and five stars are different form other teams four and five stars.ChooChooCat wrote:To 97's credit this team is loaded with ding dongs. Just ridiculously low basketball IQ players.
haha ok I can respect that. I know this wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't mind a full house cleaning next year - Smith, Lee, Barcello, Akot all gone. I just don't see a long-term positive future for those guys with our program. We would need a couple transfers to make sure we could still scrimmage in practice, but I just don't see any upside with them frankly. Akot may be a decent role player by the end of his career, but can't see him being content with that role.97cats wrote:Randolph is an excellent player - and hes also the king ding dong (*right now)
Ehh, I think miss the growing pains of other teams' 4/5 stars because we don't follow them. Look at Quinerly at Villanova, who's won 2 of the last 3 nattys.CalStateTempe wrote:Our four and five stars are different form other teams four and five stars.ChooChooCat wrote:To 97's credit this team is loaded with ding dongs. Just ridiculously low basketball IQ players.
No, no, no.goslingswagg wrote:haha ok I can respect that. I know this wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't mind a full house cleaning next year - Smith, Lee, Barcello, Akot all gone. I just don't see a long-term positive future for those guys with our program. We would need a couple transfers to make sure we could still scrimmage in practice, but I just don't see any upside with them frankly. Akot may be a decent role player by the end of his career, but can't see him being content with that role.97cats wrote:Randolph is an excellent player - and hes also the king ding dong (*right now)
Looking at any Kentucky team the last 8 years would reveal a lot of ding dongs. Jay Wright hasn't typically played many young guys, giving them time to learn. UNC and Gonzaga has been keeping their guys 3-4 years.CalStateTempe wrote:Our four and five stars are different form other teams four and five stars.ChooChooCat wrote:To 97's credit this team is loaded with ding dongs. Just ridiculously low basketball IQ players.
Kansas has had guys like Cliff Alexander and Josh Selby. Everyone has some kids who just don't exactly get it.prh wrote:Looking at any Kentucky team the last 8 years would reveal a lot of ding dongs. Jay Wright hasn't typically played many young guys, giving them time to learn. UNC and Gonzaga has been keeping their guys 3-4 years.CalStateTempe wrote:Our four and five stars are different form other teams four and five stars.ChooChooCat wrote:To 97's credit this team is loaded with ding dongs. Just ridiculously low basketball IQ players.
Yeah, might have to agree to disagree. I think we can bring on Luther-esque grad transfer role players if need be. Lee is a big time net negative on both sides of the ball with his propensity to foul and turn the ball over, and I’m not sure that is fixable. Smith is so one-dimensional and that dimension isn’t great to begin with. Barcello has looked terrible against any mediocre and above competition. Agreed on Akot being a useful role guy, but I’m concerned about his mentality if he still is a 15 minute role player his junior year after being a 5 star...might start to sour attitude-wise but may be wrong there.Spaceman Spiff wrote:No, no, no.goslingswagg wrote:haha ok I can respect that. I know this wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't mind a full house cleaning next year - Smith, Lee, Barcello, Akot all gone. I just don't see a long-term positive future for those guys with our program. We would need a couple transfers to make sure we could still scrimmage in practice, but I just don't see any upside with them frankly. Akot may be a decent role player by the end of his career, but can't see him being content with that role.97cats wrote:Randolph is an excellent player - and hes also the king ding dong (*right now)
Smith and Barcello, I could see that. Lee and Akot...it helps a ton to have experienced depth. I posted before, but everyone loves the talent of the freshmen until they show up and we take an L due to freshman mistakes and lack of execution. Vets with system knowledge help fill those spaces and are also vital to teach the kids. You need guys with experience who help show the way. Practicing alongside guys who know what to do and execute is how younger guys fall in.
Lee and Akot may both be role players, but role players are necessities for winning. We didn't have many role players last year and suffered for it. We had a lot of stars and no dirty workers.
I see improvement in Akot. And you must take his age in consideration. He left for college early, perhaps too early. I want to see him get PT now for I think it will pay dividends by the end of the season. I'm not fond of Smith because of his low basketball IQ and frustrated with Lee. Lee needs to learn how to maximize his size and understand his limitations. I would still give Barcello a chance because I believe when he gains confidence he can be an asset, especially on offense.goslingswagg wrote:Yeah, might have to agree to disagree. I think we can bring on Luther-esque grad transfer role players if need be. Lee is a big time net negative on both sides of the ball with his propensity to foul and turn the ball over, and I’m not sure that is fixable. Smith is so one-dimensional and that dimension isn’t great to begin with. Barcello has looked terrible against any mediocre and above competition. Agreed on Akot being a useful role guy, but I’m concerned about his mentality if he still is a 15 minute role player his junior year after being a 5 star...might start to sour attitude-wise but may be wrong there.Spaceman Spiff wrote:No, no, no.goslingswagg wrote:haha ok I can respect that. I know this wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't mind a full house cleaning next year - Smith, Lee, Barcello, Akot all gone. I just don't see a long-term positive future for those guys with our program. We would need a couple transfers to make sure we could still scrimmage in practice, but I just don't see any upside with them frankly. Akot may be a decent role player by the end of his career, but can't see him being content with that role.97cats wrote:Randolph is an excellent player - and hes also the king ding dong (*right now)
Smith and Barcello, I could see that. Lee and Akot...it helps a ton to have experienced depth. I posted before, but everyone loves the talent of the freshmen until they show up and we take an L due to freshman mistakes and lack of execution. Vets with system knowledge help fill those spaces and are also vital to teach the kids. You need guys with experience who help show the way. Practicing alongside guys who know what to do and execute is how younger guys fall in.
Lee and Akot may both be role players, but role players are necessities for winning. We didn't have many role players last year and suffered for it. We had a lot of stars and no dirty workers.
Fair enough, although we agree on some of it. I'd be surprised if Smith returned. Barcello, I don't know. I doubt the time will ever be there.goslingswagg wrote:Yeah, might have to agree to disagree. I think we can bring on Luther-esque grad transfer role players if need be. Lee is a big time net negative on both sides of the ball with his propensity to foul and turn the ball over, and I’m not sure that is fixable. Smith is so one-dimensional and that dimension isn’t great to begin with. Barcello has looked terrible against any mediocre and above competition. Agreed on Akot being a useful role guy, but I’m concerned about his mentality if he still is a 15 minute role player his junior year after being a 5 star...might start to sour attitude-wise but may be wrong there.Spaceman Spiff wrote:No, no, no.goslingswagg wrote:haha ok I can respect that. I know this wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't mind a full house cleaning next year - Smith, Lee, Barcello, Akot all gone. I just don't see a long-term positive future for those guys with our program. We would need a couple transfers to make sure we could still scrimmage in practice, but I just don't see any upside with them frankly. Akot may be a decent role player by the end of his career, but can't see him being content with that role.97cats wrote:Randolph is an excellent player - and hes also the king ding dong (*right now)
Smith and Barcello, I could see that. Lee and Akot...it helps a ton to have experienced depth. I posted before, but everyone loves the talent of the freshmen until they show up and we take an L due to freshman mistakes and lack of execution. Vets with system knowledge help fill those spaces and are also vital to teach the kids. You need guys with experience who help show the way. Practicing alongside guys who know what to do and execute is how younger guys fall in.
Lee and Akot may both be role players, but role players are necessities for winning. We didn't have many role players last year and suffered for it. We had a lot of stars and no dirty workers.
Oh man. We’ve come a long way from “AZ’s gonna be better than people think.”97cats wrote:Smith is a ding dong
Lee is a ding dong
Randolph is the king ding dong
How about throwing his arms up, shaking his head, popping his eyes, and acting shocked that whatever he just did got called?CatFanOneMil wrote:My son and I have started playing "Ira Lee Bingo"...
Square 1 = Turnover
Square 2 = Travel
Square 3 = charge
Center Square = Goal tend
Other squares = Moving screen
9 times out of 10 first touch is square 1
8 times out of 10 he has hit 4 of the five squares in each game.
Major Ding Dong.97cats wrote:Randolph is an excellent player - and hes also the king ding dong (*right now)
I wouldn't worry about it if I were you. Other people exist. *We've got you covered.Siempre Verde wrote: God, I picked a bad time to stop drinking.
Fixed it for you. I'm not at all sure that the PAC12 is going to get two bids. We may have to win the tournament.........which is going to require gettingPieceOfMeat wrote:win the pac12 Tournament or don't go dancing.
good to have the season so clearly defined this early.
I posted it a bunch in the game thread, but in regards to attacking the zone, did anyone else have an issue with Ira Lee playing at the foul line and basically being the "quarterback" of the half court offense. How many times did he drop a pass or turn into two defenders and turn it over? Why not put Luther there? At least he's a threat to turn and shoot.RiseAndFire wrote:Looks like Drew read the pamphlet on Miller, no matter how inept your team is they can still run simple zone and paralyze a Miller team. Millers only out is to just out-talent you for baskets in the half court with Aytons/Triers/Gordon’s/Stanleys.
Felt like an Oregon State game.
billk78 wrote: I posted it a bunch in the game thread, but in regards to attacking the zone, did anyone else have an issue with Ira Lee playing at the foul line and basically being the "quarterback" of the half court offense. How many times did he drop a pass or turn into two defenders and turn it over? Why not put Luther there? At least he's a threat to turn and shoot.
Couldn’t agree more. Ira Lee was at his absolute worst at the foul line in the middle of the zone, and that is saying a lot, because we have seen a whole lot of bad play from him this year. Frankly, I’m at the point where I really hope Miller plays Williams, Jeter, Randolph, Akot, and DD every minute they can handle going forward, as those are the only guys with a chance to contribute on this team next year.billk78 wrote:I posted it a bunch in the game thread, but in regards to attacking the zone, did anyone else have an issue with Ira Lee playing at the foul line and basically being the "quarterback" of the half court offense. How many times did he drop a pass or turn into two defenders and turn it over? Why not put Luther there? At least he's a threat to turn and shoot.RiseAndFire wrote:Looks like Drew read the pamphlet on Miller, no matter how inept your team is they can still run simple zone and paralyze a Miller team. Millers only out is to just out-talent you for baskets in the half court with Aytons/Triers/Gordon’s/Stanleys.
Felt like an Oregon State game.
How has Miller still not solved zone defense?
This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
Unfortunately so. After this desecration of McKale I slept like a baby. Sad, really.TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
As you so eloquently put it elsewhere, next year is sink or swim for Miller, and quite frankly who cares how this year ends at this point, I'm on to baseball/softball season.TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
If Miller falters next year with all that talent/recruiting class, it's not going to end well. We will be two years removed from the FBI news and it would be time to seriously considering moving on, from both sides.ChooChooCat wrote:As you so eloquently put it elsewhere, next year is sink or swim for Miller, and quite frankly who cares how this year ends at this point, I'm on to baseball/softball season.TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
Considering Miller's need to micro manage, next year won't knock anyone's socks off either, no matter how much talent there is. Why can't he let them play? Even Bill Walton has commented on it - publicly.ChooChooCat wrote:As you so eloquently put it elsewhere, next year is sink or swim for Miller, and quite frankly who cares how this year ends at this point, I'm on to baseball/softball season.TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
Agreed. Next season will absolutely dictate Sean Miller's future at Arizona, especially considering UCLA will have a new coach in by the start of that season and that always comes with recruiting momentum.TucsonClip wrote:If Miller falters next year with all that talent/recruiting class, it's not going to end well. We will be two years removed from the FBI news and it would be time to seriously considering moving on, from both sides.ChooChooCat wrote:As you so eloquently put it elsewhere, next year is sink or swim for Miller, and quite frankly who cares how this year ends at this point, I'm on to baseball/softball season.TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
TucsonClip wrote:If Miller falters next year with all that talent/recruiting class, it's not going to end well. We will be two years removed from the FBI news and it would be time to seriously considering moving on, from both sides.ChooChooCat wrote:As you so eloquently put it elsewhere, next year is sink or swim for Miller, and quite frankly who cares how this year ends at this point, I'm on to baseball/softball season.TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
I agree with this. Miller is simply too myopic and micro-managing to allow his most talented players to play to their strengths and potential. This isn't going to change with the influx of new talent next year. It's been ten years already and as was proven again last night, Miller is not very adept at making in game coaching adjustments. And once again we got bewildered by a simple zone defense. I don't mind mistakes but it's annoying when we don't seem to learn from them. I have nothing against Miller but I'm beginning to wonder if parting ways and going in a new direction is the most sensible approach. WIth the FBI/NCAA judgments still pending the dark cloud hovering over the program isn't going away anytime soon. At this point I have to question whether having Miller as our head coach is more of an asset or a liability. When you have to ask that it most often equates to the latter.TucsonClip wrote:If Miller falters next year with all that talent/recruiting class, it's not going to end well. We will be two years removed from the FBI news and it would be time to seriously considering moving on, from both sides.ChooChooCat wrote:As you so eloquently put it elsewhere, next year is sink or swim for Miller, and quite frankly who cares how this year ends at this point, I'm on to baseball/softball season.TucsonClip wrote:This couldn't be more true.Longhorned wrote:It feels strangely peaceful going into the holidays with no expectations for the rest of the basketball season.
I agree about the vast contrast between watching the best professionals in the world compared to mediocre college teams in mid-December, but March Madness remains the best spectator sport on the planet. Pre-conference games in particular are really for a select audience of fanatics, connoisseurs, and college students. They aren’t supposed to compare the NBA.Newportcat wrote:I am just slowly (actually it’s pretty fast) losing interest in college basketball in general
It’s so fucking terrible compared to the NBA. Watching Lakers vs Hornets yesterday and then Arizona vs Baylor was just unreal in how enjoyable the NBA game was compared to a college basketball game. The college game is so behind the NBA. It’s the exact opposite in football to me too. I think the college game is more exciting.
I just look at a guy like Kyle Kuzma who I never remember from Utah who now thrives in the NBA. Same as Trier. Trier is ten times more fun to watch at the NBA level then in college.
Sorry for the rant but I’m curious I how feel next year with all the talent we have coming in.
If I lived in Tucson I would not buy expensive season tickets anymore to watch such crappy basketball.
I think Miller gets two more years. If no final four by then with nexts Year’s class, I think it’s time to part from him. No idea who we gets that better so might be a Tomey type call where you can’t keep him since the whole fan base is done with them but you end up regretting firing him.