Re: Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:11 am
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Hopefully he didn't learn too much from Book...ChooChooCat wrote:Byrne fired what was equivalent to Austin Carroll on our staff. He sure took a major stand.
This guy is tweeting a lot but it's pretty clear he isn't any sort of insider, he's just another random dude.NYCat wrote:
The money will be followed. College basketball is major revenue generator for the NCAA. They turned their head and kept marching with their amateurism banner. The FBI is bringing to light what the NCAA should have done decades ago. Because of that, I am curious what role NCAA played, if any. I can't believe the NCAA is a victim in this.pc in NM wrote:"nailing the NCAA" for what? What Federal crime might the NCAA have committed?Frybry02 wrote:I am curious if FBI is also interested in nailing the NCAA. At this point, the NCAA has to be just as shocked as Pitino.
I believe the NCAA is at risk because amateur basketball is at risk.
As long as the one-and-done exists, Shoe Companies will be looking for early access to the next possible pro superstar to be on their team - the money involved per true blue-chip athlete is a small investment that could reap huge future rewards....
If it comes to making this level of the sport just another level of professional sports, then there is honestly no place for universities, especially state-run universities, being in the "business" - then the NCAA is "nailed", because it is obsolete....
if they do, they're bat shit crazier than JesseWildcatOlsondogg wrote:Do people think Olson ran a "clean" program? Just wondering...
Scheer claims he is an insider. I'm not sure he'd be remotely aware of what the FBI has at this point though.prh wrote:This guy is tweeting a lot but it's pretty clear he isn't any sort of insider, he's just another random dude.NYCat wrote:
probably, they are one of the cleaner programs along with Michigan and StanfordChooChooCat wrote:As a side note is it too much to ask for Wisconsin basketball to be implicated in this more so than anybody else? They're Adidas aren't they? Can they burn for eternity please?
Disagree.NYCat wrote:
97cats wrote:if they do, they're bat shit crazier than JesseWildcatOlsondogg wrote:Do people think Olson ran a "clean" program? Just wondering...
Amongst every thing he's tweeted that tweet sounds like absolute hearsay at this point. Nobody worth a shit anywhere is talking.ZONACAT wrote:Disagree.NYCat wrote:
I want Utah. Please let Utah go down.97cats wrote:probably, they are one of the cleaner programs along with Michigan and StanfordChooChooCat wrote:As a side note is it too much to ask for Wisconsin basketball to be implicated in this more so than anybody else? They're Adidas aren't they? Can they burn for eternity please?
Yeah, I bet if you look at last years NCAA Tournament Seeding and strike out those teams that could be involved with Scandal over the past ten years, you may have 10-12 teams left. Don't think we will need any Play-in games this year either! That or cancel all secondary tournaments going on a the same time - they won't be needed. Even Dick Vitale may need to be suspended just for the sake of it - don't allow him to commentate any Duke games this year, it would literally kill him.Spaceman Spiff wrote:This. This one one reason why I can't believe the NCAA wants to be too aggressive. They don't want to be banning Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Arizona, Kansas, UCLA, Louisville and the rest from the postseason.Olsondogg wrote:I don't know if they were shocked at the results of the probe, maybe that the FBI got involved. But nobody wanted this to come to light, especially the NCAA or all of the companies that profit off this.Frybry02 wrote:I am curious if FBI is also interested in nailing the NCAA. At this point, the NCAA has to be just as shocked as Pitino.
You wind up with a 32 team tournament where your #1 seed Oakland University takes on IUPUI's JV squad in the first round. No corporate partner is giving you money for that ****.
"Book Richardson! Thank you for our lives!"BE4RDOWN21 wrote:The thing that I am dreading the most is Bill Walton's take on this issue for the entirety of the season
There's no getting in front of this, leave all communication to lawyers. The FBI is on a roll investigating this, they've kicked a portion of what they had to the US Attorney in the Southern District of NY, we don't know what else they have or who they have it on until more indictments get handed down. All we know is part one, how many parts are left. Who knows?threenumberones wrote:Does it make any sense for Miller to find out who Book was referring to and try to get ahead of it? Denial and conducting business as usual until the FBI is done just seems ridiculous. This may take a long, long time. If we are proactive that gives us some chance at saving the season, no? I mean even if we win the natty this year it would almost assuredly be voided at some point.
Also, does anyone know if there's a precedent already for the FBI sharing information with a third party that's not involved in the investigation like the NCAA? Would they, or can they? Sorry if this was answered already I'm caught up but only in fragments.
It's the smart thing to do for any small fish scooped up in a conspiracy. Roll on the bigger fish.NYCat wrote:Dakich is a bitch
Dakich is one of the absolute worst in CBB, I have no idea how ESPN lets him trash schools and attack individual students. Everything he has said on this so far cements him as scum.NYCat wrote:Dakich is a bitch
With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.
This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
I'd buy a t-shirt with that logo.
WildcatStunner wrote:Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?
84Cat wrote:WildcatStunner wrote:Is it wrong that I want that #4 logo on a shirt?
Source: https://twitter.com/IndyWhiskeyAz" target="_blank
Omg! Yes!Jefe wrote:Someone needs to make that shirt with "Final" next to our new logo if we make it this year
Preach. Nobody knows the whole story.BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.
This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
I agree with this. I would be stunned if the FBI cares who on Arizona's roster might have broken NCAA rules. To use RG's Godfather analogy, the FBI cares about the puppetmasters, not the puppets.prh wrote:Dakich is one of the absolute worst in CBB, I have no idea how ESPN lets him trash schools and attack individual students. Everything he has said on this so far cements him as scum.NYCat wrote:Dakich is a bitch
However, bigger question: (if true) who is Book singing about? I'd think it's about Adidas and other shoe people. FBI doesn't care about Sean or the program. FBI is going after shoe companies.
FOIA wouldn't come into play until after the investigation and prosecutions are over tho, right? That will probably take a long while. The NCAA has to act in the mean time. This just can't linger over the sport with only the lawyers communicating. Plus UofA will do their own investigation, as will just about any other university that is 'rumored' to be participating. Will the entire athletics department be part of the denial then?wyo-cat wrote:There's no getting in front of this, leave all communication to lawyers. The FBI is on a roll investigating this, they've kicked a portion of what they had to the US Attorney in the Southern District of NY, we don't know what else they have or who they have it on until more indictments get handed down. All we know is part one, how many parts are left. Who knows?threenumberones wrote:Does it make any sense for Miller to find out who Book was referring to and try to get ahead of it? Denial and conducting business as usual until the FBI is done just seems ridiculous. This may take a long, long time. If we are proactive that gives us some chance at saving the season, no? I mean even if we win the natty this year it would almost assuredly be voided at some point.
Also, does anyone know if there's a precedent already for the FBI sharing information with a third party that's not involved in the investigation like the NCAA? Would they, or can they? Sorry if this was answered already I'm caught up but only in fragments.
Book may plea and never go to trial, then there's no public record of what he did outside his allocution as a part of his plea bargain. Then it's up to getting FOIA info out of the FBI.
Does any of that hard evidence exist? That's the question, and in the FBI info, it doesn't.enfuego wrote:With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.
This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
enfuego wrote:With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.
This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
The fact that this is coming to light does not void the NCAA's idealistic view of amateurism. And I'd bet that view is also shared by the vast majority of ADs, including ours. The entire NCAA ecosystem (outside of coaches) is not willing to just 'wait and see' based on a hypothesis that since everyone is cheating it's won't be considered cheating in the future. This is way too big to stay idle and I'd be shocked if our AD did nothing.BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.
This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
OK. So not an employee. Not an amateur. A student. Money doesn't come from TV contracts, because that money goes to schools.Spaceman Spiff wrote:The school's relationship with the player is identical. Zero money is going college to player.gumby wrote:More details, please. Are they employees of the college or the outside forces?Spaceman Spiff wrote:To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.
1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.
How does mixing nonprofit and for-profit ventures navigate labor and tax laws? What if schools DO compensate beyond current scholarships, as they do now, to gain an advantage? NCAA still there to enforce? (Doing such a great job now).
Seems the market would dictate to colleges: cut your non-rev sports to free up money for the bidding or say hello to the bottom of the standings.
Would the charade of attending classes (for many) continue? Or is that veneer needed to keep these events on campuses (rather than club sports)?
Outside sources are paying the player. The comparison is a normal student who gets a job at a pizza place. That does not impact the student's scholarship money or legit $.
The player is related to the school in the same way as now. Right now there is an artificial prohibition on players making money from their status outside that. The only thing my proposal does is eliminate that prohibition. The institution/player relationship unchanged.
Yea, based on what they have there isn't much. But I'm assuming the AD's statement about an internal investigation is sincere and that they are adhering to NCAA policy. Unless they purposefully handicap the effort, they will find something.Spaceman Spiff wrote:Does any of that hard evidence exist? That's the question, and in the FBI info, it doesn't.enfuego wrote:With hard evidence that players were paid, some sanctions 100% will come down - such as paid players not being eligible, etc.BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.
This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.
Book asks for money regarding Quinerly, but he's not on our roster. There's a reference to one other player we have on our current roster being already taken care of, but that's a statement from Dawkins without followup.
There's a distinct possibility more comes out, but right now, the only thing we could self-sanction is Book's conduct with Quinerly. I think we should do that, but at the point we're certain about whether any more exists.
Basically this. We can't expect the best of both worlds in this situation given the nature of the beast that has existed for apparently quite some time. If a head coach wants to be a saint and blow the whistle to clean things up "because honesty, integrity," he may as well start applying at other jobs. You also have to remember, even if Lute, Miller, and some of these other coaches are generally very good people who just turn a blind eye to things because there is no other option, the positive influence and life lessons these coaches pass on to these young men far outweighs turning the blind eye. I wont apologize for saying that, for my own sons, give me Sean Miller or Lute ahead of Ned Flanders, who may be a saint but has been sheltered from reality and is unable to teach them real life, and who is a mediocre or lower basketball coach.SCCats wrote:I will not stand for the cheaters either. Do you all hear me?
That said, I want the absolutely best players to come to my school every year so we can win yearly PAC regular season titles, always be a one (or two, I guess) seed, hit a final four every other year or so and get one or two titles a decade.
Oh and if you don't deliver those players yes, it will cost you your jobs.
But *bangs fist on table* I will not stand for the cheaters!
I don't see any need to uncouple Nike/Adidas, etc. from outfitting schools. If Adidas thinks De'Andre Ayton would be better at Kansas, they can offer him double what Nike does and he can take it or not.gumby wrote:OK. So not an employee. Not an amateur. A student. Money doesn't come from TV contracts, because that money goes to schools.Spaceman Spiff wrote:The school's relationship with the player is identical. Zero money is going college to player.gumby wrote:More details, please. Are they employees of the college or the outside forces?Spaceman Spiff wrote:To answer Gumby's question about how it would work.
1. Drop the rule that players cannot be compensated. Substitute that schools cannot compensate them beyond current scholarship limits.
2. Let outside sources work. The market dictates the rest.
How does mixing nonprofit and for-profit ventures navigate labor and tax laws? What if schools DO compensate beyond current scholarships, as they do now, to gain an advantage? NCAA still there to enforce? (Doing such a great job now).
Seems the market would dictate to colleges: cut your non-rev sports to free up money for the bidding or say hello to the bottom of the standings.
Would the charade of attending classes (for many) continue? Or is that veneer needed to keep these events on campuses (rather than club sports)?
Outside sources are paying the player. The comparison is a normal student who gets a job at a pizza place. That does not impact the student's scholarship money or legit $.
The player is related to the school in the same way as now. Right now there is an artificial prohibition on players making money from their status outside that. The only thing my proposal does is eliminate that prohibition. The institution/player relationship unchanged.
Outside sources no longer affiliated with particular schools? Just go right to the kid. No reason to sweat which school the kid chooses. Coaches don't need to sweat where the $150k comes from.
No Nike Schools, etc. I'd like that.
Well, if it's as extensive as many here are claiming, some drastic measures would be necessary. I'd live with whatever it takes.... Honestly, I think this only accelerates the inevitable drastic changes already likely for CBBscumdevils86 wrote:I generally agree but then you need to agree to there not being any college football or basketball for a few seasons to reset everything. And also you need to apologize for spending money and being a fan and watching the games since whatever year you started.
The connection to college grows thinner all the time. Can't see the NCAA just surrendering and putting itself out of business. So they will probably be punitive, and that will suck.pc in NM wrote:"nailing the NCAA" for what? What Federal crime might the NCAA have committed?Frybry02 wrote:I am curious if FBI is also interested in nailing the NCAA. At this point, the NCAA has to be just as shocked as Pitino.
I believe the NCAA is at risk because amateur basketball is at risk.
As long as the one-and-done exists, Shoe Companies will be looking for early access to the next possible pro superstar to be on their team - the money involved per true blue-chip athlete is a small investment that could reap huge future rewards....
If it comes to making this level of the sport just another level of professional sports, then there is honestly no place for universities, especially state-run universities, being in the "business" - then the NCAA is "nailed", because it is obsolete....
My man.BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.
This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.