Bear Down Wildcats

zonagrad wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

dcZONAfan wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

PennZona20 wrote:Get Rawle back and this team is preseason top 5.

Missing post depth (thanks Chance for this year) and obviously a high leve PG but other than that this team seems pretty stacked if Rawle comes back.

I mean we have post depth, just a matter of how Pinder and Lee performs. PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.

Can I ask those who have a better idea, whether they think Lee can actually provide meaningful minutes his frosh year? Chance certainly didn't, so do we think Lee is further ahead in his development than Chance was coming into college?

It feels like our post depth is definitely lacking. Whether that ends up a major problem we won't know. I will say that having Rawle back would be huge as I believe he can be a difference maker for both offensive and defensive rebounding, something we will desperately need with Dusan playing so many minutes next year (fuck the last 7 words of that sentence depress me so very much).

Comanche rarely played hard and more importantly didn't listen much, especially his freshman year. Playing hard and listening aren't issues Lee has, so he certainly has a chance to make the rotation in the post.

I wouldn't question Comanche's effort, it's just that I don't think he knew what playing hard and really battling are all about. Some guys have it. Some don't. Certain players just have that motor and inner drive to battle more on position, possession, etc... A lot of that comes from playing against tough competition your whole life and trial by fire. My best guess is that Comanche was always the best player on the floor during his formative years because he played against inferior competition and really didn't have to battle against better players in practice or in games. Things came easy, up until the point he was hit smack in the face by college basketball and the reality that he needed a ton of work set in.

I thought over a four year career he had tremendous potential. In fact, I expected his college career to resemble that of Channing Frye's. But Comanche never got a taste for the dirty work required in college basketball. He needed to learn to embrace the grind and the one on one battles in the paint. If Comanche had the drive and determination of a guy like Pinder, he could've been an all-conference player during his career. I don't see his career leading to anything substantial in the professional ranks. If he couldn't distinguish himself in two years in college, I don't know why he expects better results against guys in the pros who will no doubt have more experience and more drive to succeed.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:Some rumors going around that he's likely to come back now, but at the moment still hasn't told Arizona anything either way.

Well, fingers crossed, but as always, it's only final when it's final.

gumby wrote:So this is great news, though I hope Rawle gets everything he wants. Still great news, and best of luck to Rawle.

ASUHATER! wrote:If only Comanche and Kobi came back too then we'd be unstoppable.

ASUHATER! wrote:If only Comanche and Kobi came back too then we'd be unstoppable.

dcZONAfan wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

PennZona20 wrote:Get Rawle back and this team is preseason top 5.

Missing post depth (thanks Chance for this year) and obviously a high leve PG but other than that this team seems pretty stacked if Rawle comes back.

I mean we have post depth, just a matter of how Pinder and Lee performs. PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.

Can I ask those who have a better idea, whether they think Lee can actually provide meaningful minutes his frosh year? Chance certainly didn't, so do we think Lee is further ahead in his development than Chance was coming into college?

It feels like our post depth is definitely lacking. Whether that ends up a major problem we won't know. I will say that having Rawle back would be huge as I believe he can be a difference maker for both offensive and defensive rebounding, something we will desperately need with Dusan playing so many minutes next year (fuck the last 7 words of that sentence depress me so very much).

ChooChooCat wrote: PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.

rgdeuce wrote:Awesome news. 1st team all conference player next year. Easily.

Trier's obviously gonna lead the team in scoring, but Rawle may end up being our best all around player next year. I think most here would agree that he's going to beast next year. Continuing off where he left off last season, the regular frosh to soph jump, the experience/info/feedback he got from the combine, the experience playing in a field w elite college players/pros in the combine, and the hunger to do what he has to reach the goal he was told he was shy of. Damn.

Longhorned wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote: PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.

Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year. In doing so, Trier will beat out PJC for starter minutes, just like Allen did. That will make things thin on the wing.

BigSkyCatinMT wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote: PG a much larger concern to me than any other weakness.

Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year. In doing so, Trier will beat out PJC for starter minutes, just like Allen did. That will make things thin on the wing.

I think Barcello may surprise, but maybe not. Think he is underrated a bit.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Awesome news. 1st team all conference player next year. Easily.

Trier's obviously gonna lead the team in scoring, but Rawle may end up being our best all around player next year. I think most here would agree that he's going to beast next year. Continuing off where he left off last season, the regular frosh to soph jump, the experience/info/feedback he got from the combine, the experience playing in a field w elite college players/pros in the combine, and the hunger to do what he has to reach the goal he was told he was shy of. Damn.

I think Rawle will wind up bringing more than Trier. Vs Ayton, I don't know bc Ayton is so talented, but Rawle will be a better defender and rebounder and as good on offense.

Puerco wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:Awesome news. 1st team all conference player next year. Easily.

Trier's obviously gonna lead the team in scoring, but Rawle may end up being our best all around player next year. I think most here would agree that he's going to beast next year. Continuing off where he left off last season, the regular frosh to soph jump, the experience/info/feedback he got from the combine, the experience playing in a field w elite college players/pros in the combine, and the hunger to do what he has to reach the goal he was told he was shy of. Damn.

I think Rawle will wind up bringing more than Trier. Vs Ayton, I don't know bc Ayton is so talented, but Rawle will be a better defender and rebounder and as good on offense.

Tough to predict that. If you compare Trier's ORtg vs. DRtg you have 125:101, or a +24 advantage per hundred possessions. Rawle is indeed better on defense, but just barely. Trier is much better on offense. Rawle's numbers are 111:99 for a +14 advantage.

Bottom line? Rawle needs to turn into the lockdown defender Miller's team always seems to have, and he needs to improve a ton on offense if he's going to have a more positive impact on the team. (EDIT:I mean a more positive impact than Trier of course!)

What surprised me when I was going through the number was just how good of a rebounder Trier was. Almost matched Rawle in that dept.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
It's a projection, but I thought Rawle made dramatic strides on D throughout the year. He was behind at the beginning of the year but slid into being a plus defender by the end of the year. By this point, Trier is probably who he is on D, but I think Rawle has room for growth.

On O, I saw a lot of the same improvements. Rawle had issues with forcing it and getting quick whistles for charges at the beginning of the year. He was much better at picking his spots by the end of the year.

We'll see.

rgdeuce wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
It's a projection, but I thought Rawle made dramatic strides on D throughout the year. He was behind at the beginning of the year but slid into being a plus defender by the end of the year. By this point, Trier is probably who he is on D, but I think Rawle has room for growth.

On O, I saw a lot of the same improvements. Rawle had issues with forcing it and getting quick whistles for charges at the beginning of the year. He was much better at picking his spots by the end of the year.

We'll see.

That's how I see things too. From what I read in terms of feedback Rawle got back, his defense was well complimented by the NBA people. You have to assume that is something he will take pride in and know execs and scouts will continue to be looking for. Trier's D is crutched by inconsistency in desire, whereas I see Rawle as a guy as a full-effort guy who just needs experience and reps to cut down on some of the mistakes. Like you said, the difference from November to Feb/March was night and day. Goes for the offense too, like you said. From the UCLA game at Pauley on, Rawle was our most consistent player last season.

Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.

Longhorned wrote:

Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.

This post from this morning hasn't aged well.

Longhorned wrote:

Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.

This post from this morning hasn't aged well.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

Longhorned wrote:
Trier has to play point guard because nobody other than PJC can put in real minutes at the position next year.... That will make things thin on the wing.

This post from this morning hasn't aged well.

Wait until we have a few major injuries, suspensions and Akot goes to Australia. Everything that is old will be new again.

whatisee wrote:The only serious question that needs to be addressed is if this team can beat the Zone?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

whatisee wrote:The only serious question that needs to be addressed is if this team can beat the Zone?

In some games or all games?

EOCT wrote:The PG subject.

A few thoughts. First, PJC. I'm not convinced he can't give us good minutes, limited or not. Dude has heart, as evidenced by halving his projected high ankle sprain rehab somehow. He came back without missing a beat---unexpected so from that type of injury. His distribution skills were money right away, witness Dusan suddenly seeing a lot of balls. The team was re-energized.

Second, we haven't seen Barcello yet. Spain and our early practices will show us whether his game translates.

Third----here's where I'll really piss everyone off. Rawle. Sure, sure he doesn't know PG, and as many have opined "doesn't have the handles/ball-control skills. Really?

Where is this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiNu2sab4" target="_blank

Yes, HS D on him, but high level.

EOCT wrote:The PG subject.

A few thoughts. First, PJC. I'm not convinced he can't give us good minutes, limited or not. Dude has heart, as evidenced by halving his projected high ankle sprain rehab somehow. He came back without missing a beat---unexpected so from that type of injury. His distribution skills were money right away, witness Dusan suddenly seeing a lot of balls. The team was re-energized.

Second, we haven't seen Barcello yet. Spain and our early practices will show us whether his game translates.

Third----here's where I'll really piss everyone off. Rawle. Sure, sure he doesn't know PG, and as many have opined "doesn't have the handles/ball-control skills. Really?

Where is this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiNu2sab4" target="_blank

Yes, HS D on him, but high level.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

EOCT wrote:The PG subject.

A few thoughts. First, PJC. I'm not convinced he can't give us good minutes, limited or not. Dude has heart, as evidenced by halving his projected high ankle sprain rehab somehow. He came back without missing a beat---unexpected so from that type of injury. His distribution skills were money right away, witness Dusan suddenly seeing a lot of balls. The team was re-energized.

Second, we haven't seen Barcello yet. Spain and our early practices will show us whether his game translates.

Third----here's where I'll really piss everyone off. Rawle. Sure, sure he doesn't know PG, and as many have opined "doesn't have the handles/ball-control skills. Really?

Where is this guy? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cujiNu2sab4" target="_blank

Yes, HS D on him, but high level.

I think Parker can give decent minutes. He is unquestionably a rotation guy on a top team. The arguments about Parker are almost exclusively about whether he is starter material. I've long said he can play his role well enough for us to achieve great things. Where people get frustrated is that we want a starting PG to push us to thse great things. PJC is not that guy, that leader.

Barcello may surprise. I'm not counting on it freshman year, though.

I would love it if Rawle or Trier flashes combo skill allowing us to run lineups where they are the primary ballhandler. Again, both could, but the question is whether they will. Now that we have Randolph, Akot and Smith off the bench, the opportunity for one of them sliding to PG is definitely there.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
It's a projection, but I thought Rawle made dramatic strides on D throughout the year. He was behind at the beginning of the year but slid into being a plus defender by the end of the year. By this point, Trier is probably who he is on D, but I think Rawle has room for growth.

On O, I saw a lot of the same improvements. Rawle had issues with forcing it and getting quick whistles for charges at the beginning of the year. He was much better at picking his spots by the end of the year.

We'll see.

That's how I see things too. From what I read in terms of feedback Rawle got back, his defense was well complimented by the NBA people. You have to assume that is something he will take pride in and know execs and scouts will continue to be looking for. Trier's D is crutched by inconsistency in desire, whereas I see Rawle as a guy as a full-effort guy who just needs experience and reps to cut down on some of the mistakes. Like you said, the difference from November to Feb/March was night and day. Goes for the offense too, like you said. From the UCLA game at Pauley on, Rawle was our most consistent player last season.

Rawle has better tools than Zo on D as well. He has good wingspan, a thick body and good athleticism. Zo has decent lateral speed, but is a little behind Rawle there and nowhere near the strength Rawle has.

Rawle really sorted out his footwork as the season went on. Early season, his closeouts were messy, but he really sharpened up. I'd believe the NBA process made it clear to him that continued improvement on D is a big ticket to the league. The only defensive tool he doesn't have is being a few inches taller, but his strength compensates. No one's itching to try to post Rawle up.

Having Rawle, Randolph and Akot on the wing should be a better defensive lineup than 2016-17, even with Kadeem's loss. Add in Ayton at the rim and I like our D ceiling next year.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

whatisee wrote:The only serious question that needs to be addressed is if this team can beat the Zone?

In some games or all games?