Bear Down Wildcats

azcat49 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 11:36 am The way TBrown has played I would take him over any of those incoming freshman. His assist to TO ratio is amazing and he has shot it pretty well with good shot selection

97cats wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 12:38 pm 33 makes out of 106 total attempts by Washington - that number includes 11 free throws, they made 7.

31.1%

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:53 pm

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 12:45 pm I agree. If those two could stick around for another year or two they could be a scary duo on the perimeter. Throw in the possibility of Akinjo and Brown sticking around next year and we could be a defensive juggernaut. Let's pray man

My list of guys I really want back next year (and it's complicated by in theory everyone being able to return) would go:

Akinjo
Kriisa
Terry
Mathurin
J. Brown
Tubelis
Koloko

The remainder of the rotation, I'm not particularly wedded to. Baker, I worry he's irrelevant next to our 3 incoming freshmen. Goerner, haven't seen him play, no idea. Ira and Terrell could return, but I'm not sure I see the benefit on either side.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:04 pm Loving the roster breakdowns, guys. And I am starting to LOVE this team! It's crazy that we haven't even added Kriisa yet.

I think this group wants that reg season Pac title pretty badly, and it looks like they'll be among the 3 or 4 teams with a shot at it.

Let's keep it going vs. WSU! Interesting bit of trivia about this WSU team: they haven't lost yet! This has to be the best start to a season in ages for the Cougs.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:03 pm
I share that sentiment. I've long thought we should do the following things and hopefully they understand.

1. Acknowledge we deserve some punishment for Book's federal conviction. This is not an area I feel we can or should push back on. He did that shit.
2. Point out the remaining allegations lack any degree of corroboration. If I claim I'm the queen of England, that does not make it true. Same with Book's words.
3. Point out the ways in which the NCAA has simply overextended their facts. Dinging us for not controlling the actions of ex-employees is one area. Lumping in swimming/diving is another example of something they haven't done with anyone else.
4. Point to the tourney ban as a reasonable punishment. Compare to OSU and Alabama. We're comparable to OSU and dropped worse on ourselves than Bama did.
5. Request they punish us based on actual facts. The recruits we're alleged to have done stuff with were all cleared by the NCAA. How do you punish us for stuff the NCAA cleared the players of.
6. This leaves us where we started. Book did something that warrants punishment, but that's it.

midnightx wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:30 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:03 pm
I share that sentiment. I've long thought we should do the following things and hopefully they understand.

1. Acknowledge we deserve some punishment for Book's federal conviction. This is not an area I feel we can or should push back on. He did that shit.
2. Point out the remaining allegations lack any degree of corroboration. If I claim I'm the queen of England, that does not make it true. Same with Book's words.
3. Point out the ways in which the NCAA has simply overextended their facts. Dinging us for not controlling the actions of ex-employees is one area. Lumping in swimming/diving is another example of something they haven't done with anyone else.
4. Point to the tourney ban as a reasonable punishment. Compare to OSU and Alabama. We're comparable to OSU and dropped worse on ourselves than Bama did.
5. Request they punish us based on actual facts. The recruits we're alleged to have done stuff with were all cleared by the NCAA. How do you punish us for stuff the NCAA cleared the players of.
6. This leaves us where we started. Book did something that warrants punishment, but that's it.

That is why it was essential that Arizona go the IARP route. The NCAA appears to have an agenda against Arizona, it isn't just fulfilling its duty to police NCAA violations. It has created a narrative and has made a number of allegations that are not necessarily verifiable, or even legitimate. The arbitrator is an independent third-party, not an extension of the NCAA. If the arbitrator thinks the NCAA has gone too far, is overreaching, etc., it will rule accordingly.

With respect to lumping in swimming and diving infractions into the basketball case is really quite disturbing. The most disturbing aspect is that ESPN, one of the most highly read sports websites, continues to report the total number of infractions as being against the basketball program to further their own narrative, rather than engaging in proper journalism and reporting the actual number of infractions against the basketball program. They know exactly what they are doing, they are continuing to defame the program with every single report.

Catintheheat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:31 pm

dmjcat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:18 pm

Catintheheat wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:13 pm Looking at the Cats lineup. I believe this would have been a sweet-16 or better team. Best team since 16-17. The guards are better because of how unselfish they are. Plus, I don't see chuckers on the team. They play smart. Defensively, I'd like to see them take more chances in stripping the ball, and jumping into passing lanes. Their quickness is a strength and the team out to be tailored to this. They play excellent transition basketball but play a good half-court game too, thanks to the decision-making, and not just the guards.

Thinking how good this team is now and their incredible potential If we return the team, and I believe it is possible, this team could be the best team since 14-15 and a National Championship wouldn't be out to the question. Definitely Final Four good. This is the most fun team to watch since 14-15,

One last point. This reminds me more of a Lute Olson team than Sean Miller teams.

Personally I am just enjoying this team now, in the present. This isn't the Lute Olson era anymore. The players have the NBA, the NBA G league, and Overseas leagues to play in. Frankly, I will be surprised if the team returns intact for next season.

I wouldn't be surprised. For one. I doubt any of these players will be first round picks, let alone lottery. Still, we could lose a couple with bad advice in their ears. Having a chance at a National Championship is a once in a lifetime opportunity. And I love the chemistry of this team. Sean Miller has a knack of sending players to the NBA and staying there if they stay long enough. Lately, it hasn't mattered.

I differ with others here. I believe CSM is a good teacher. It's more about players not staying long enough to learn. I am glad he isn't recruiting OAD players as much now. It allows players to stay and allows CSM to teach. I believe Sean Miller's biggest mistake was recruiting all the highest rated players he could get, because he could. Maybe he has learned his lesson and now recruits high quality basketball players who understand the game already (to a degree). I think the obsession of recruiting the highest ranked players has been a major contributor of Arizona's miseries during the last few years. And I believe he is now finding players who fit into the system without as many stars in their eyes. Find good players who want to learn instead of ones who are looking for a pitstop.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:45 pm

midnightx wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 1:30 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 12:03 pm
I share that sentiment. I've long thought we should do the following things and hopefully they understand.

1. Acknowledge we deserve some punishment for Book's federal conviction. This is not an area I feel we can or should push back on. He did that shit.
2. Point out the remaining allegations lack any degree of corroboration. If I claim I'm the queen of England, that does not make it true. Same with Book's words.
3. Point out the ways in which the NCAA has simply overextended their facts. Dinging us for not controlling the actions of ex-employees is one area. Lumping in swimming/diving is another example of something they haven't done with anyone else.
4. Point to the tourney ban as a reasonable punishment. Compare to OSU and Alabama. We're comparable to OSU and dropped worse on ourselves than Bama did.
5. Request they punish us based on actual facts. The recruits we're alleged to have done stuff with were all cleared by the NCAA. How do you punish us for stuff the NCAA cleared the players of.
6. This leaves us where we started. Book did something that warrants punishment, but that's it.

That is why it was essential that Arizona go the IARP route. The NCAA appears to have an agenda against Arizona, it isn't just fulfilling its duty to police NCAA violations. It has created a narrative and has made a number of allegations that are not necessarily verifiable, or even legitimate. The arbitrator is an independent third-party, not an extension of the NCAA. If the arbitrator thinks the NCAA has gone too far, is overreaching, etc., it will rule accordingly.

With respect to lumping in swimming and diving infractions into the basketball case is really quite disturbing. The most disturbing aspect is that ESPN, one of the most highly read sports websites, continues to report the total number of infractions as being against the basketball program to further their own narrative, rather than engaging in proper journalism and reporting the actual number of infractions against the basketball program. They know exactly what they are doing, they are continuing to defame the program with every single report.

I would hope the IARP would listen to the bolded part, as I think you can make a direct argument to that point from completely objective evidence.

1. The NCAA alleged that we should receive aggravated treatment due to Book/Phelps not speaking to the NCAA...despite the fact this was after they were employed by Arizona and we had no control over them. Leveling this against us instead of say, asking for a show cause penalty vs Book/Phelps is pushing the envelope.
2. The NCAA added swimming/diving. I'm not aware of any other program involved getting blended treatment like that.
3. Allegations of refusal to cooperate vs Arizona. Compare us to Auburn. Pearl refused to cooperate with their internal investigation and suffered no consequences.
4. Immediate leaks of our NOA and NOA response. Auburn got a NOA a year ago and no leaks. Yet, non-Arizona sources leak our NOA and NOA response in days. Wonder who did that?

Taken together, I think the record supports that the NCAA has pushed harder on us than similarly situated programs, and intentionally crafted a process that seems designed for PR use against us. I would 100% argue to the IARP that this should not be rewarded.

dmjcat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:52 pm "I doubt any of these players will be first round picks, let alone lottery"

You are kidding, right???

Have you ever heard of;

Chance Comanche?--By far the weirdest exit.
Nick Johnson?--Smart, he wouldn't have benefitted from another year.
Chase Budinger?--See Nick Johnson.
Kobi Simmons?--OAD from Day 1.
Grant Jarrett?--Preferred being a 2nd rounder to sitting behind BAsh and Zeus.
Nico Mannion??--OAD from Day 1.

None were 1st round draft picks but it didn't stop them from leaving.

I certainly hope you are right and everyone returns but I would not bet on it.

Another variable is the IARP. We have no idea when they will hear the UA case, or decide it. Should they decide the UA case before next season (and drop multi-year sanctions on us) I could easily see a mass exodus from the program.

dmjcat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:58 pm I think all of the IARP talk is just speculation until we find out what the NCAA has charged us with.........and more importantly what evidence they may have. Remember, the UA has not released the NOA from the NCAA. We have no idea what we have been formally charged with nor what evidence the NCAA may have dug up. If, for example, the NCAA has evidence that a UA coach (Book) paid to have Rawles transcripts altered then we are totally F*cked. Multi year sanctions would most assuredly follow.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 3:15 pm

dmjcat wrote: ↑Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:52 pm "I doubt any of these players will be first round picks, let alone lottery"

You are kidding, right???

Have you ever heard of;

Chance Comanche?--By far the weirdest exit.
Nick Johnson?--Smart, he wouldn't have benefitted from another year.
Chase Budinger?--See Nick Johnson.
Kobi Simmons?--OAD from Day 1.
Grant Jarrett?--Preferred being a 2nd rounder to sitting behind BAsh and Zeus.
Nico Mannion??--OAD from Day 1.

None were 1st round draft picks but it didn't stop them from leaving.

I certainly hope you are right and everyone returns but I would not bet on it.

Another variable is the IARP. We have no idea when they will hear the UA case, or decide it. Should they decide the UA case before next season (and drop multi-year sanctions on us) I could easily see a mass exodus from the program.

There's zero chance the IARP decides before next year. NC State started their IARP in the beginning of April and no movement.

NCSU has a single allegation from Dennis Smith Jr.'s recruitment. If they can't get through in 8 months, we aren't making it through by October.

My thoughts on your exits are annotated. I don't think any of our current guys has a NJ/Budinger reason to go, and none is a Nico/Kobi guaranteed OAD. Frankly, none of our guys is getting drafted instead of sitting like Jerrett, either.

So, that leaves WTF exits like Comanche. They can happen, but trying to understand the logic behind an illogical decision ahead of time is pointless.

Frybry02 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:28 pm I just want to make sure I understand this extra year if eligibility rule.

Akinjo, for example, even though he is considered in a junior this year. He still has 2 years of eligibility after this year. And if he and Arizona chose, could still play through the 22-23 season.

And Kriisa, even though he will play the last 8 games, still has 4 years of eligibility left beginning next year.

Is this correct? Thanks.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:31 am I couldn’t watch last night, but man, nice to pull out a tough road win! Against a team that hadn’t lost yet.

What the heck was up with Baker? This is what makes me nervous about the reliance on 3 pt shooting. When it’s good, we roll. But when those long shots aren’t falling, it can kill you.

Nice to see Mathurin have a big game.

Really looking forward to the L.A. schools. I’d said going 3-2 over this current 5 game stretch would be great, and they’ve already done that.

Catintheheat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:58 am Baker tweaked his ankle early in the game.

billk78 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:55 pm This is such a fun team to watch. They had an off night yesterday but still pulled it out. WSU is much improved this year. I love the consistent scoring we get and we don't have to rely on 1-2 guys to score 15+ or we lose. As someone else mentioned, Brown and Baker both had off nights (and Akinjo wasn;t great) and we still won....in large part thanks to Mathurin. On any given night someone else can step up and be the guy, I think one of the announcers mentioned Arizona really does have 5-6 guys who could score 20+ any game. It could be even more because I could see Terry getting there.

billk78 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:55 pm This is such a fun team to watch. They had an off night yesterday but still pulled it out. WSU is much improved this year. I love the consistent scoring we get and we don't have to rely on 1-2 guys to score 15+ or we lose. As someone else mentioned, Brown and Baker both had off nights (and Akinjo wasn;t great) and we still won....in large part thanks to Mathurin. On any given night someone else can step up and be the guy, I think one of the announcers mentioned Arizona really does have 5-6 guys who could score 20+ any game. It could be even more because I could see Terry getting there.

AZCatGirl wrote: ↑Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:28 pm This year's team makes me really excited for next year. If feels like we're watching something be built that could go on to have a great run next year. Gonna be sad when the season ends because this is just a fun group to watch.

Olsondogg wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:16 am IMO the self sanctioning did no good at all unless Arizona’s lawyers are amazingly stellar in their arguments against additional post season bans.

I have enjoyed this team and am still in on Miller as a coach because I don’t agree with those that think he cannot coach.

I thought last year was his “proof in the pudding” year but covid changed all that and Sumlin imploding the FB program has solidified Miller in Tucson from what I see.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:31 am I thought we would jump into the ap top 25 after this week. I guess not

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:31 am I thought we would jump into the ap top 25 after this week. I guess not

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:45 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:31 am I thought we would jump into the ap top 25 after this week. I guess not

I know it isn't supposed to matter, but now that we got the tourney ban, I feel like it will take a lot to get us in the top 25.

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am As of today:
RPI-44
BPI-36
AP- 31
Coaches- NR (48 teams receiving votes)
NET- 21
KenPom-28

IndianaZonaFan wrote: ↑Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:58 am As of today:
RPI-44
BPI-36
AP- 31
Coaches- NR (48 teams receiving votes)
NET- 21
KenPom-28