Bear Down Wildcats

Olsondogg wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

I believe they were also moving in on Nike at the same time...

When is the bloodletting going to start so I can get my popcorn ready?

MrBug708 wrote:

Longhorned wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Maybe Miller was getting raided and then the FBI didn't say anything about it for some reason.

Or maybe it was for the same reason the FBI showed up at exactly the same time at the home of the president of the University of Louisville: to inform him about what was about to happen.

The president of Louisville was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious Athletics director.

Sean Miller was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious assistant coach.

Did the AD of Arizona get raided too? Or other coaches bosses? I'm assuming Louisville AD was also in on things too? Seems like he should have just resigned before things got worse for him

No and no. I don't know about the Louisville AD, but it's possible since he got fired; Pitino appears to have been involved.

Like I said, maybe Sean Miller is under suspicion, but there's no explicit reason to believe that to be the case. The FBI was showing up at the homes of people who appear not to have been suspicious.

loomer wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

I believe they were also moving in on Nike at the same time...

When is the bloodletting going to start so I can get my popcorn ready?

Just gotta find the bodies. We already know about Love, Honeycutt, and Bazz

loomer wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

I believe they were also moving in on Nike at the same time...

When is the bloodletting going to start so I can get my popcorn ready?

No idea...

Alieberman wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Everyone on here back in March would have taken another 3 wins even if they were vacated.

Don't feed me that bullshit that you wouldn't. Don't make me quote your bitching after that Xavier loss.

There are a lot of emotions flowing right now... and all are valid.

I'm just not sure I understand why people are seeming pissed at those wishing everything was on the up and up.

I'm not pissed...I just don't understand the naivety.

Really?

I mean, I'm not stupid... I knew there were some "shades of grey" type of deals being done behind the scenes... but no idea they were close to this level. I would guess most people were probably in this camp.

Nobody expected the FBI to be involved.

I just know that players went to programs for some reason...I didn't need to know the details.

But I never thought anyone was squeaky clean...and I think those that did and are demanding heads roll before anything is even complete are hilarious.

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Think of it this way.. A mid-level marijuana dealer gets arrested for drug trafficking. Mid-level drug dealer agrees to work with the DEA to take down a pretty large heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer and an undercover work together over the course of six months to build a relationship with and ultimately, earn the trust and business of the heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer, his muscle, undercover agent, his muscle, meet with heroin supplier and five of his people at a dock to exchange the money for the heroin. Once the exchange happens, the cavalry comes. Who gets ordered to the ground and handcuffed? Not making inferences about the level of cooperation, or any cooperation by Miller. But say he was helping, wouldn't you want to make it look like he isn't? That's one reason that comes to mind. I'm assuming you know why they all come knocking at the same time.

Longhorned wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Maybe Miller was getting raided and then the FBI didn't say anything about it for some reason.

Or maybe it was for the same reason the FBI showed up at exactly the same time at the home of the president of the University of Louisville: to inform him about what was about to happen.

The president of Louisville was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious Athletics director.

Sean Miller was the presumably innocent boss of a suspicious assistant coach.

Correct. Tom Jurich's daughter got job with Adidas. It's not hard to see how all these relationships work. Jurich and Pitino were employees of Adidas just as much as they were employed by Louisville.

rgdeuce wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Think of it this way.. A mid-level marijuana dealer gets arrested for drug trafficking. Mid-level drug dealer agrees to work with the DEA to take down a pretty large heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer and an undercover work together over the course of six months to build a relationship with and ultimately, earn the trust and business of the heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer, his muscle, undercover agent, his muscle, meet with heroin supplier and five of his people at a dock to exchange the money for the heroin. Once the exchange happens, the cavalry comes. Who gets ordered to the ground and handcuffed? Not making inferences about the level of cooperation, or any cooperation by Miller. But say he was helping, wouldn't you want to make it look like he isn't? That's one reason that comes to mind. I'm assuming you know why they all come knocking at the same time.

Based on the little i know about the FBI and investigations, the idea that they contacted Miller about an ongoing probe into one of his staff doesn't pass the smell test very well. I might be bias, it just doesn't seem like the step they needed to do. I suppose they told Miller he was also a target, and his choices were to cooperate (record conversations) or be arrested along with everyone else. But i don't understand why they would nees to stop by that morning with on-going contact

gumby wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

gumby wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Gumby:

I don't think the NCAA can found anything on the one and done bc that's an NBA rule they have no control over. Even with that, it doesn't really offend me. Going back to my analogy:

Say a year into Student Y's time at Arizona, a sweet job with Company X opens. Student Y wants it and Company X wants Student Y badly enough that they don't care if Student Y has completed her degree. Student Y leaves for a million dollar contract to head Company X's research department.

Not offensive to me. The early exit is comparable to someone like Lauri deciding another year won't be necessary.

Right, but Student Y doesn't have any fans that scream and cheer every time he handles a beaker. Department heads don't have to worry about landing the next Student Y to soothe fans and keep job. No TV contract money pouring into the university because of interest in those studies.

Different dynamic. The pressures on schools with athletes is very intense. Not so with science students.

So the athlete has more pressure than the student but it's ok if the student gets money and not ok if the athlete gets money?

I don't follow that logic. I can agree that the athlete has more pressure, but I would think that more pressure means we should be less offended if that person gets paid.

The school has more pressure. To fill stadiums. To have a winning record. To keep the TV money coming. More reasons to turn to corruption to ease pressure.

I'm fine with them getting paid, as long as the school isn't doing it and some connection to education is maintained (otherwise, why is this the location?). Just as the school doesn't pay them for the pizza job.

I don't like the partnerships with shoe companies because they have an interest in steering kids to particular colleges. If they could just pay kids and refrain from steering, OK. But it they're steering, coaches will be right there with a compass.

Must be Metaphor Day.

I'm with gumby here. Assuming the one and done rule is history - and I think it's universally accepted that it will be - what incentive is there for a kid to go to school when he can go play ball full time and still get paid just as well or better? I suppose these "outside sources of funding" in various college towns can do their best and pool their resources, but do we really expect that most of the top flight players will still want to bother to attend class when they can go direct to the draft or overseas and probably make more money doing it? Not trying to be snarky, but you don't need a degree in basketball or any other sport to play those sports professionally. The guy with the beaker does and might need a Master's to boot.

Olsondogg wrote: Nobody expected the FBI to be involved.

I just know that players went to programs for some reason...I didn't need to know the details.

But I never thought anyone was squeaky clean...and I think those that did and are demanding heads roll before anything is even complete are hilarious.

All I'm saying is that 2 days ago many of us just found out that Santa Claus wasn't real. People should be cut a little slack for their emotions for a little while.

Alieberman wrote:

Olsondogg wrote: Nobody expected the FBI to be involved.

I just know that players went to programs for some reason...I didn't need to know the details.

But I never thought anyone was squeaky clean...and I think those that did and are demanding heads roll before anything is even complete are hilarious.

All I'm saying is that 2 days ago many of us just found out that Santa Claus wasn't real. People should be cut a little slack for their emotions for a little while.

"Arizona fans are likely entering into what we call the early stages of Helsinki Syndrome..."
"As in...Helsinki, Sweden" (mugs for camera)
"Uh, Finland."

Alieberman wrote:

Olsondogg wrote: Nobody expected the FBI to be involved.

I just know that players went to programs for some reason...I didn't need to know the details.

But I never thought anyone was squeaky clean...and I think those that did and are demanding heads roll before anything is even complete are hilarious.

All I'm saying is that 2 days ago many of us just found out that Santa Claus wasn't real. People should be cut a little slack for their emotions for a little while.

That's fine. Some of us knew that fat bastard was fake from the get go.

azgreg wrote:

Funniest thing I've seen in a while...

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided?

you see, miller was informed about the probe and then went all Donnie Brascoe on Book - deep undercover, because he knew he needed to do the right thing. The FBI probably gave him all sorts of cool disguises and spy gear. They stopped by his house just to pick all that stuff back up

now get in that foxhole!! We're gonna circle the wagons and fight for Miller guns a blazing!

RiseAndFire wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided?

you see, miller was informed about the probe and then went all Donnie Brascoe on Book - deep undercover, because he knew he needed to do the right thing. The FBI probably gave him all sorts of cool disguises and spy gear. They stopped by his house just to pick all that stuff back up

now get in that foxhole!! We're gonna circle the wagons and fight for Miller guns a blazing!

rgdeuce wrote:

97cats wrote:

BibbysTowelDude wrote:I would be shocked if anything happened to this season. The shit is just about to start. The only punishment getting dished out, would be self sanctions. Which I'm sorry to those holy rollers out there would be rediculous. Arizona should suspend no one, should fire no one (minus Book and any crony he may have infected), kick no player off the team. They should do nothing but win basketball games. The NCAA can vacate it later if they want. Everyone knows that non sense is total revisionist crap anyways. When the time comes, you file suit against anyone and everyone for any punishment handed down. You rock the bureaucracy as best you can.

This idea of self sanctions is crap. There is zero reason to go that route in 2017. Even if there is a dead hooker in Miller's backyard.

post of the thread

Is that because of the dead hooker in Miller's backyard bit? NM, don't answer that.

If they found a dead hooker in Miller's backyard, you know Pitino has to be kicking himself that he didn't come up with that strategy first.

You know, it's hard to know what jokes are in poor taste these days.

rgdeuce wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Think of it this way.. A mid-level marijuana dealer gets arrested for drug trafficking. Mid-level drug dealer agrees to work with the DEA to take down a pretty large heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer and an undercover work together over the course of six months to build a relationship with and ultimately, earn the trust and business of the heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer, his muscle, undercover agent, his muscle, meet with heroin supplier and five of his people at a dock to exchange the money for the heroin. Once the exchange happens, the cavalry comes. Who gets ordered to the ground and handcuffed? Not making inferences about the level of cooperation, or any cooperation by Miller. But say he was helping, wouldn't you want to make it look like he isn't? That's one reason that comes to mind. I'm assuming you know why they all come knocking at the same time.

Not that I know, but isn't it possible Miller knew a storm was brewing with Adidas, but not necessarily the details? He can't exactly stop recruiting, but he can assign his most expendable assistant to the place lightning is most likely to strike.

Pure speculation, but even if he doesn't absolutely know who is coming, when they're coming or even if it will happen, that doesn't mean there wasn't an inkling that the shoe (company) was about to drop.

But who knows in this topsy-turvy world? I doubt we ever will know a full story, even when the 30 for 30 happens.

MrBug708 wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Think of it this way.. A mid-level marijuana dealer gets arrested for drug trafficking. Mid-level drug dealer agrees to work with the DEA to take down a pretty large heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer and an undercover work together over the course of six months to build a relationship with and ultimately, earn the trust and business of the heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer, his muscle, undercover agent, his muscle, meet with heroin supplier and five of his people at a dock to exchange the money for the heroin. Once the exchange happens, the cavalry comes. Who gets ordered to the ground and handcuffed? Not making inferences about the level of cooperation, or any cooperation by Miller. But say he was helping, wouldn't you want to make it look like he isn't? That's one reason that comes to mind. I'm assuming you know why they all come knocking at the same time.

Based on the little i know about the FBI and investigations, the idea that they contacted Miller about an ongoing probe into one of his staff doesn't pass the smell test very well. I might be bias, it just doesn't seem like the step they needed to do. I suppose they told Miller he was also a target, and his choices were to cooperate (record conversations) or be arrested along with everyone else. But i don't understand why they would nees to stop by that morning with on-going contact

I dont know all the details either, and I could be completely off. But if there are guys from four schools involved, and head coaches/representatives from only three of those four get knocks, wouldn't people get suspicious about the one head coach/representative of the one school who didn't get a knock? At the very least, the FBI had a conversation with Miller and everyone else months back, and they were all letting them know, as victims/representatives of the programs, today we arrested X, Y, Z, and to give any further updates/explain what is going to happen moving forward, etc. That may be the case, but to me, 6 am is a little early to be knocking on doors to give updates without a formal invitation/arrangement ahead of time, and in that case, I dont see the need for having to hit all of the parties at the same time.

YoDeFoe wrote:I'm just pissed that our tournament teams lost to a bunch of amateurs.

At the very least, the losses to UConn and Ohio State shouldn't bother you as much...

pc in NM wrote:I'll preface this by disclosing that I work in healthcare legal and regulatory compliance....

I Don't care if "(most) everyone is doing it", and/or if "it's necessary to compete at the highest level". Not. One. Bit.

I hope as many as possible who have in fact participated in this corruption becomes a convicted felon and does hard time. Period.

The only exception I'd support would be (most of) the athletes and their immediate family members, if they turn "state's evidenve" and fully disclose all payments and/or offers.

I just Don't fucking care for cheaters.

Does the NCAA hand out prison sentences as punishment now? I had no idea...

Also, I have no idea of any sound reasons why I shouldn't merge this thread with the main scandal one. Please someone enlighten me on both counts.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:I'm just pissed that our tournament teams lost to a bunch of amateurs.

At the very least, the losses to UConn and Ohio State shouldn't bother you as much...

Funny enough, those ones are never the ones I look back on with a twinge of pain.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

rgdeuce wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Maybe i missed it but if Miller already knew about the probe, why did FBI agents show up at his house for coffee at around the same time other places were raided? While this seems like a lot of resources thrown at something small, it seems like they didn't need to stop by his house if he was already in on it just to say hi? I doubt they were willing to risk Multiple years of investigating letting Miller in on it, unless he was wearing wires or something like that

Think of it this way.. A mid-level marijuana dealer gets arrested for drug trafficking. Mid-level drug dealer agrees to work with the DEA to take down a pretty large heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer and an undercover work together over the course of six months to build a relationship with and ultimately, earn the trust and business of the heroin supplier. Mid-level dealer, his muscle, undercover agent, his muscle, meet with heroin supplier and five of his people at a dock to exchange the money for the heroin. Once the exchange happens, the cavalry comes. Who gets ordered to the ground and handcuffed? Not making inferences about the level of cooperation, or any cooperation by Miller. But say he was helping, wouldn't you want to make it look like he isn't? That's one reason that comes to mind. I'm assuming you know why they all come knocking at the same time.

Not that I know, but isn't it possible Miller knew a storm was brewing with Adidas, but not necessarily the details? He can't exactly stop recruiting, but he can assign his most expendable assistant to the place lightning is most likely to strike.

Pure speculation, but even if he doesn't absolutely know who is coming, when they're coming or even if it will happen, that doesn't mean there wasn't an inkling that the shoe (company) was about to drop.

But who knows in this topsy-turvy world? I doubt we ever will know a full story, even when the 30 for 30 happens.

If the FBI knew and ruled out Miller as a person of criminal interest, I could see in May or June 2017, the FBI knocking on the door asking if they can come in. I can see the FBI letting Miller know the general gist of their investigation, "we are investigating illicit activity between shoe companies, agents, handlers, rogue assistant coaches, etc." From there, I could see the FBI either asking questions specifically about Book, being more vague and asking general questions about his assistants, and/or flat out telling Miller that during their still-active investigation, they found out Book was doing XYZ or associating with persons of interest in their investigation. From there, who knows, but a good cop/agent never stops asking questions. Did they have an angle just to merely inform him as a potential victim? Or did they know that the FBI showing up at his door out of no where, asking about his staff, would prompt him to feel a tremendous amount of heat/pressure that would make someone who probably knew quite a bit about all of this answer some unknowns and possibly help them connect some of the dots. If I were writing a movie, I'd have Miller being generally cooperative and letting them know that these are issues that have been plaguing the sport for a while, with them leaving their cards and letting Miller know to call them at any time if he needs anything, remembers anything else, finds new information that will help their investigation. Miller immediately consults his personal retained counsel, after, they all meet with the appropriate people at Arizona (AD, president, etc) and the University's counsel, and Miller and them deciding the best course of action is _______, or Miller, being the true god of earth that he is, decides this is a good time to help the FBI to 1) Cover his and the programs ass, hopefully, from getting F'd too hard by the NCAA when the time comes (and possibly criminal liability just in case), and/or 2) be an agent who will be at least partially responsible for helping clean the game up. Miller and his attorney reach out to the FBI and arrange a meeting, and as the FBI Miller is game and has good information, they start filling in a little bit more of the specifics with him so he can narrow the scope of what he is giving and be more specific with the exact information they are looking for.

I'm probably off, but based on what I have read here, that all seems plausible to me.

6am mst = 8am cst = 9am est

I see nothing out of the ordinary for the sting operation to occur all at once.

Alieberman wrote:

Olsondogg wrote: Nobody expected the FBI to be involved.

I just know that players went to programs for some reason...I didn't need to know the details.

But I never thought anyone was squeaky clean...and I think those that did and are demanding heads roll before anything is even complete are hilarious.

All I'm saying is that 2 days ago many of us just found out that Santa Claus wasn't real. People should be cut a little slack for their emotions for a little while.

1) It sounds as though just about everyone's close enough to the situation knew that this was going on and on a massive scale... and when you know all the details (and have for a while) things should appear obvious to everyone - which isn't necessarily the case.

2) I think there is another group that think the whole world is corrupt and that everybody cuts corners/ makes agreements they never intend to fulfill / etc. They think this way because they probably do, and they justify their own behavior. Accordingly, anyone who does not is naive/ weak/ an idiot.

Thinking back to college... guys who did blow (there were a LOT) assumed EVERYBODY (except for born-gains & virgins) did it.

3) Then you have the folks who know that SOME shady shit goes on everywhere, but they don't roll that way - and generally don't associate with people who do. They are not blind, but they are naive to some degree - because they do not see the shit that Group #2 does because they are not involved in it (or associated with those that do). And it makes sense that big time college athletics may be even worse than the norm.

Back to college - if you didn't do Coke, you probably did not hang around a lot of people that did - and had NO idea how prevalent it was.

4. The group that is shocked anything like this ever happens... and probably do believe in Santa Claus.

Fairly quiet day

Full audio from Books hearing Tuesday. His lawyer is 90 years old...

- The FBI doesn't ask questions it doesn't already know the answers to, they are just trying to see if you are lying or not.
- Sting operations are often coordinated at the same time so no advanced warning can be given, even if in multiple states/cities
- Romar is the perfect coach-in-waiting should the worst case scenario happen
- This story is already getting stale in the media, could be the end of it for a while as big interests just want to move on

Harvey Specter wrote:

Alieberman wrote:

Olsondogg wrote: Nobody expected the FBI to be involved.

I just know that players went to programs for some reason...I didn't need to know the details.

But I never thought anyone was squeaky clean...and I think those that did and are demanding heads roll before anything is even complete are hilarious.

All I'm saying is that 2 days ago many of us just found out that Santa Claus wasn't real. People should be cut a little slack for their emotions for a little while.

1) It sounds as though just about everyone's close enough to the situation knew that this was going on and on a massive scale... and when you know all the details (and have for a while) things should appear obvious to everyone - which isn't necessarily the case.

2) I think there is another group that think the whole world is corrupt and that everybody cuts corners/ makes agreements they never intend to fulfill / etc. They think this way because they probably do, and they justify their own behavior. Accordingly, anyone who does not is naive/ weak/ an idiot.

Thinking back to college... guys who did blow (there were a LOT) assumed EVERYBODY (except for born-gains & virgins) did it.

3) Then you have the folks who know that SOME shady shit goes on everywhere, but they don't roll that way - and generally don't associate with people who do. They are not blind, but they are naive to some degree - because they do not see the shit that Group #2 does because they are not involved in it (or associated with those that do). And it makes sense that big time college athletics may be even worse than the norm.

Back to college - if you didn't do Coke, you probably did not hang around a lot of people that did - and had NO idea how prevalent it was.

4. The group that is shocked anything like this ever happens... and probably do believe in Santa Claus.

This seems quite accurate and in my opinion closer to reality than most of the other posts so far...I never did drugs or drank in school (preachers kid figure it out) but I did have roommates that did this crap and it made my life frustrating at times...

I think as far as the FBI is concerned very few of us really know much at all about how those guys actually work, we all watch movies and THINK we know but its probably a lot less glamorous than we imagine...I mean its not like Book was the "Wolf of WallStreet" here...he's not the sharpest crayon in the box, taping a conversation with him was probably as easy as hitting record on the phone and leaving on the table as he talked.

My daughter is a DA in california, she is one of only three people in her entire region who are authorized to write wiretap subpoenas...it is a VERY precise kind of wording that requires absolute watertight language and evidence and is only seen by a Judge until the things come out in court...even on the local level every jail conversation is ALWAYS recorded and admissible as evidence, EVERY phone call...I can only imagine the amount of crossing the T's and dotting the I's that the FBI goes through in order to procure the evidence like they presented it this week...

IF Miller was Culpable I doubt very seriously his visit was coffee and donuts and "Here's our card call us if you remember anything"...thats not how these guys work thats how our IDEA of those guys work...in real life they are the big dog and you say "yes sir"...I'm believing 97cat here...Miller was not doing this shit.

CalStateTempe wrote:6am mst = 8am cst = 9am est

I see nothing out of the ordinary for the sting operation to occur all at once.

Oh I agree. I was commenting on the nature of them dropping by at that time because it wasn't a sting on Miller as it was earlier characterized. It just seems off that they would go by his house to let him know they were arresting his AC at the same time as the sting, if he was already part of the knowledge of the operation at some level. Seems like a phone call would have sufficed. Maube they took his computer or other items of importance in regards to Book?

https://energycommerce.house.gov/news/e ... ry-scheme/" target="_blank

Washington, D.C. – Energy and Commerce Committee Chairman Greg Walden (R-OR) and Ranking Member Frank Pallone, Jr. (D-NJ) are requesting a briefing from the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) and sports companies involved in the evolving college basketball bribery scandal. They released the following statement this afternoon:

“The federal government’s investigation into sports companies and basketball coaches at numerous colleges across the nation is extremely troubling and puts into serious question the NCAA’s ability to oversee its own institutions. In addition to any criminal activities, these allegations raise concerns about the effects of these predatory schemes on youth athletes and how hidden financial connections between advertisers and endorsers influence young consumers. We are requesting that the NCAA and the involved companies brief the committee on the actions they are taking to ensure that similar schemes are not happening in other sports, and how they intend to prevent it from happening in the future.”

Congress has nothing better to do apparently. Somehow they think they will be able to get to the bottom of this.

Jefe wrote:Fairly quiet day

Full audio from Books hearing Tuesday. His lawyer is 90 years old...

His lawyer also represented dr. Bradley Schwartz, a pill head opthmologist who murdered his pediatric opthmologic colleague in 2004 with the help of a hitman, because his opioid addled brain feared his colleague was stealing patients. Never mind Schwartz wasn't allowed to practice at the time because his liscense was suspended by the state.

It was a big case in Tucson around the mid 2000s.

Hes doing 25 to life.

So ever since 2013 head coaches are on the hook for assistant coaches behavior...I do not see how Miller escapes being suspended...the question is how long?

Season starts with Romar but does it end with him is the only real question I guess...?

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 9352301569" target="_blank

Pursuant to Bylaw 11.1.1.1, a head coach is presumed responsible for major/Level I and Level II
violations (e.g., academic fraud, recruiting inducements) occurring within his or her program unless
the coach can show that he or she promoted an atmosphere of compliance and monitored his or her
staff. After August 1, 2013, if the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions finds that a head
coach violated Bylaw 11.1.1.1, he or she may be suspended, pursuant to a show-cause order, for up
to an entire season for Level I violations and up to half of a season for Level II violations. The
length of the suspension will depend on the severity of the violation(s) committed by his or her staff
and/or the coach himself/herself.

jajoyce wrote:

Looks like the progress in the investigation will slow down now

"I don't speak English" -- Rick Pitino

Congress is a joke.

It's 7pm on the east coast. Me thinks the blood letting will have to wait for another day.

CatFanOneMil wrote:So ever since 2013 head coaches are on the hook for assistant coaches behavior...I do not see how Miller escapes being suspended...the question is how long?

Season starts with Romar but does it end with him is the only real question I guess...?

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 9352301569" target="_blank

Pursuant to Bylaw 11.1.1.1, a head coach is presumed responsible for major/Level I and Level II
violations (e.g., academic fraud, recruiting inducements) occurring within his or her program unless
the coach can show that he or she promoted an atmosphere of compliance and monitored his or her
staff. After August 1, 2013, if the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions finds that a head
coach violated Bylaw 11.1.1.1, he or she may be suspended, pursuant to a show-cause order, for up
to an entire season for Level I violations and up to half of a season for Level II violations. The
length of the suspension will depend on the severity of the violation(s) committed by his or her staff
and/or the coach himself/herself.

This specific rule change has already been discussed about 4 times in this thread. At this point you either believe 97 and the tea leaves or you don't

CalStateTempe wrote:Congress is a joke.

It's 7pm on the east coast. Me thinks the blood letting will have to wait for another day.

It's also close enough to Friday on the East Coast so I think the blood letting is done for the week...which probably means there is no other shoe...everything that is provable is out in the open now...

prh wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:So ever since 2013 head coaches are on the hook for assistant coaches behavior...I do not see how Miller escapes being suspended...the question is how long?

Season starts with Romar but does it end with him is the only real question I guess...?

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 9352301569" target="_blank

Pursuant to Bylaw 11.1.1.1, a head coach is presumed responsible for major/Level I and Level II
violations (e.g., academic fraud, recruiting inducements) occurring within his or her program unless
the coach can show that he or she promoted an atmosphere of compliance and monitored his or her
staff. After August 1, 2013, if the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions finds that a head
coach violated Bylaw 11.1.1.1, he or she may be suspended, pursuant to a show-cause order, for up
to an entire season for Level I violations and up to half of a season for Level II violations. The
length of the suspension will depend on the severity of the violation(s) committed by his or her staff
and/or the coach himself/herself.

This specific rule change has already been discussed about 4 times in this thread. At this point you either believe 97 and the tea leaves or you don't

It's the NCAA since when do they follow any kind of logical path...ambiguity is their safe zone...I know that 97 says Miller has padded his defense, but we are talking about a body of committees that can't even agree on what constitutes a PED in the system.

Jay Bilas doesn’t believe Sean Miller knew about Book Richardson’s illegal activity

“I know Sean Miller to be a man of great honesty and integrity,” he said
by Ryan Kelapire@RKelapire Sep 28, 2017, 2:48pm PDT

College basketball analyst Jay Bilas couldn’t disagree more.

“No, it is not,” he tweeted. “I know Sean Miller to be a man of great honesty and integrity. I don't believe for a second he knew of any improper behavior.”

Miller has not released a statement on the matter, but he was not implicated in the compliant the Department of Justice released Tuesday.

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... rizona-fbi" target="_blank

CatFanOneMil wrote:

prh wrote:

CatFanOneMil wrote:So ever since 2013 head coaches are on the hook for assistant coaches behavior...I do not see how Miller escapes being suspended...the question is how long?

Season starts with Romar but does it end with him is the only real question I guess...?

https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status ... 9352301569" target="_blank

Pursuant to Bylaw 11.1.1.1, a head coach is presumed responsible for major/Level I and Level II
violations (e.g., academic fraud, recruiting inducements) occurring within his or her program unless
the coach can show that he or she promoted an atmosphere of compliance and monitored his or her
staff. After August 1, 2013, if the NCAA Division I Committee on Infractions finds that a head
coach violated Bylaw 11.1.1.1, he or she may be suspended, pursuant to a show-cause order, for up
to an entire season for Level I violations and up to half of a season for Level II violations. The
length of the suspension will depend on the severity of the violation(s) committed by his or her staff
and/or the coach himself/herself.

This specific rule change has already been discussed about 4 times in this thread. At this point you either believe 97 and the tea leaves or you don't

It's the NCAA since when do they follow any kind of logical path...ambiguity is their safe zone...I know that 97 says Miller has padded his defense, but we are talking about a body of committees that can't even agree on what constitutes a PED in the system.

The safest thing for the NCAA is to ensure the investigation into this takes years, like the UNC one has. A true investigation and "proper" punishment for everyone is infeasible for the goals of the NCAA, so the best self-protective thing they can do is have a long investigation that eventually leads nowhere.

Chicat wrote:

pc in NM wrote:I'll preface this by disclosing that I work in healthcare legal and regulatory compliance....

I Don't care if "(most) everyone is doing it", and/or if "it's necessary to compete at the highest level". Not. One. Bit.

I hope as many as possible who have in fact participated in this corruption becomes a convicted felon and does hard time. Period.

The only exception I'd support would be (most of) the athletes and their immediate family members, if they turn "state's evidenve" and fully disclose all payments and/or offers.

I just Don't fucking care for cheaters.

Does the NCAA hand out prison sentences as punishment now? I had no idea...

Also, I have no idea of any sound reasons why I shouldn't merge this thread with the main scandal one. Please someone enlighten me on both counts.

Book and the other nine were indicted on felony counts in Federal Court - he faces up to 60 years in Federal prison

The investigation is ongoing, and more indictments are expected.

That assistant coaches, and especially the players/family/friends involved have no reason to refuse to tell all and seek a favorable plea bargain and or reduction of charges

The best reason to merge this would be to absorb it and make the specific fan reaction and ensuing discussion more difficult to track.

Where would those accepting of this "reality" draw the line on cheating? Is there a dollar limit on bribes? Is point-shaving beyond the pale? What about extortion?

Not a gloating post as I fully expect UCLA will get some flack from this too.

Few points, the Book is a rogue coach thing, I haven't seen anybody mention it in this thread yet but was Pasternak rogue too? If you read the stuff on page 36 or 37 they openly discuss a meeting with TWO arizona assistants, the money men, and the uncle of a recruit. One is Book, the other it says was "then an assistant at school 4." We know that is Arizona so it had to be Pasternak. he clearly said he was all in on the scheme to take bribes so you had 2 guys not one.

You have 2 current players who got paid. It's not clear if current includes this years freshmen or just guys on this years team who played last year. Alkins is hurt. If one of these is Trier, his career in college is over, suspended last year over steroids no way the NCAA lets him pay the money back and plays this year if he's one of the 2. I assume the recruit whose uncle showed up was Little, I originally thought Ayton but then re reading it seems to imply it's class of 18 and Little seems most obvious since he's referenced elsewhere.

On the NBA players part of this, NBA players HAVE talked in the past. I'm old enough to remember when Mel Turpin got mad because he found out other UK players got more money than he did when he was at UK. He got drunk one night and told a reporter the whole thing including money figures, the reporter printed it, NCAA looked, and UK went on probation. That was the start of the kenny Walker probe at UK.

I'm skeptical on the FBI notified Miller in advance stuff, why would they do that? This was a 3 year investigation that all the schools involved who have commented so far said we had no idea. The NCAA said they were notified of the investigation just before the story broke. So why did the FBI keep the whole thing secret but decide to tell Miller who had TWO coaches involved in it? The they knew he was innocent angle seems sketchy. If they thought he was dirty then it makes sense, tell him we know you're dirty we have proof, if you cooperate and help us get more information, we'll cut you a deal. That would make sense, the other way makes no sense at all.

Russ Smith wrote:
I'm skeptical on the FBI notified Miller in advance stuff

be skeptical, youre wrong -- welcome back ...now kick rocks

There are so many flaws in that post it is unreadable.

Russ Smith wrote:Few points, the Book is a rogue coach thing, I haven't seen anybody mention it in this thread yet but was Pasternak rogue too? If you read the stuff on page 36 or 37 they openly discuss a meeting with TWO arizona assistants, the money men, and the uncle of a recruit. One is Book, the other it says was "then an assistant at school 4." We know that is Arizona so it had to be Pasternak. he clearly said he was all in on the scheme to take bribes so you had 2 guys not one.

You have 2 current players who got paid. It's not clear if current includes this years freshmen or just guys on this years team who played last year. Alkins is hurt. If one of these is Trier, his career in college is over, suspended last year over steroids no way the NCAA lets him pay the money back and plays this year if he's one of the 2. I assume the recruit whose uncle showed up was Little, I originally thought Ayton but then re reading it seems to imply it's class of 18 and Little seems most obvious since he's referenced elsewhere.

Like... all of this is wrong. You weren't great at book reports, I'll guess.

pc in NM wrote:he faces up to 60 years in Federal prison

Stopped reading.

That means Book will be 104 when he gets out. 2077 can't come soon enough.

Jefe wrote:Fairly quiet day

Full audio from Books hearing Tuesday. His lawyer is 90 years old...

Not worth listening to...but I did anyway. Astonishing, sobering, "living month-to-month." Lawyer knew he was to be fired; got his bail reduced to $50,000.

Book was quiet. Sounds like he'll be moving to NYC.

Book is already a ward of the government. He has to show up, do what he's told, essentially going forward for life, regardless of his sentence. I mean even if he gets a month in jail he will be on probation forever and dependent on others (his wife?) for money.

Nine years employed by Arizona. Well salaried. I would guess he was mid 300's.