Bear Down Wildcats

Beachcat97 wrote:AP poll is out. Ranked 21st to begin the season.

And St. Mary's comes in at 20 - so that's a little funny. I honestly quit worrying about polls - especially pre season ones - a long time ago. Sure seems like CSM did & tries to pass that mindset on to the team.

21 feels right. Pollsters are going to be bearish on AZ until convinced otherwise. I still think we're better than Oregon.

Beachcat97 wrote:AP poll is out. Ranked 21st to begin the season.

Vs. #8 Gonzaga
Vs. #15 Oregon
@ #15 Oregon
@#16 Baylor
Vs. #26 Washington
@ #26 Washington
Vs. #27 Colorado
Vs. #33 Illinois

Plus 2 against USC (received 2 votes)
Plus 1 possible vs. Providence (received 1 vote)

That’s 11 possible games this year against teams receiving preseason votes

No doubt Greg Hansen has already circled his calendar for when Utah State beats Arizona, even though Utah State doesn't play Arizona.

IndianaZonaFan wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

NickyBCats wrote:Scheer doesn’t have a final result but said he was told Zeke stood out and was our best player on the floor.

Impressive given the talent and experience in the Gonzaga front court. Tillie, Timme, Petrusev, Kispert and a bunch of young bigs behind them.

I thought it was St Mary’s

I'm dumb.

IndianaZonaFan wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:AP poll is out. Ranked 21st to begin the season.

Vs. #8 Gonzaga
Vs. #15 Oregon
@ #15 Oregon
@#16 Baylor
Vs. #26 Washington
@ #26 Washington
Vs. #27 Colorado
Vs. #33 Illinois

Plus 2 against USC (received 2 votes)
Plus 1 possible vs. Providence (received 1 vote)

That’s 11 possible games this year against teams receiving preseason votes

That matches the list I put together for possible Q1 wins this season (that's the headline component of the NET rankings that determine tournament seeding). Each would be a huge win.

Besides Tillie, who else does Gonzaga bring back? I thought they lost most of their key guys.

Beachcat97 wrote:Besides Tillie, who else does Gonzaga bring back? I thought they lost most of their key guys.

Filip Petrusev & Corey Kispert. The add Admon Gilder & Ryan Woolridge as immediate impact grad transfers and bring in a very solid recruiting class.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Besides Tillie, who else does Gonzaga bring back? I thought they lost most of their key guys.

Filip Petrusev & Corey Kispert. The add Admon Gilder & Ryan Woolridge as immediate impact grad transfers and bring in a very solid recruiting class.

Looking at this list of rosters, I don't see any teams that I feel are definitely better/more talented than UofA besides MSU and probably UK. Every team has big question marks, and I don't see any reason why we can't compete for a FF.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Besides Tillie, who else does Gonzaga bring back? I thought they lost most of their key guys.

Filip Petrusev & Corey Kispert. The add Admon Gilder & Ryan Woolridge as immediate impact grad transfers and bring in a very solid recruiting class.

Fair enough, but that means they, like AZ, are integrating new guys, figuring out rotations. I respect the hell out of Few, and I expect they'll win their league again and earn a high tourney seed. But this Zags team is not as loaded as their FF team. I see this as a winnable game. Two teams with lots of new faces. Which will be further along in early December?

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Besides Tillie, who else does Gonzaga bring back? I thought they lost most of their key guys.

Filip Petrusev & Corey Kispert. The add Admon Gilder & Ryan Woolridge as immediate impact grad transfers and bring in a very solid recruiting class.

Fair enough, but that means they, like AZ, are integrating new guys, figuring out rotations. I respect the hell out of Few, and I expect they'll win their league again and earn a high tourney seed. But this Zags team is not as loaded as their FF team. I see this as a winnable game. Two teams with lots of new faces. Which will be further along in early December?

You can say the same for Oregon and UW, who Goodman & Jon Wilner have ranked, while they have us unranked. Obviously not every one agrees with them though. It's all very subjective. As gosling said, these teams immediately ahead of us in most of these rankings aren't scary for one reason or another. They'll be tough for sure, but there's literally no one outside of maybe the top 3 or so that we can't beat with our roster. If Baker is eligible...ooooooh boy.

Also Jeff Borzello has us at 18.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... rly-top-25" target="_blank

Beachcat97 wrote:Besides Tillie, who else does Gonzaga bring back? I thought they lost most of their key guys.

Kispert is a good shooting wing, Petrusev is a powerful inside body. Ryan Woolridge and Admon Gilder enter via transfer - Gilder will start at SG after playing the same last season at Texas A&M. Joel Ayayi is a returning guard who stepped up over the summer.

But yeah, lots of new bodies on this team.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:Besides Tillie, who else does Gonzaga bring back? I thought they lost most of their key guys.

Filip Petrusev & Corey Kispert. The add Admon Gilder & Ryan Woolridge as immediate impact grad transfers and bring in a very solid recruiting class.

Fair enough, but that means they, like AZ, are integrating new guys, figuring out rotations. I respect the hell out of Few, and I expect they'll win their league again and earn a high tourney seed. But this Zags team is not as loaded as their FF team. I see this as a winnable game. Two teams with lots of new faces. Which will be further along in early December?

You can say the same for Oregon and UW, who Goodman & Jon Wilner have ranked, while they have us unranked. Obviously not every one agrees with them though. It's all very subjective. As gosling said, these teams immediately ahead of us in most of these rankings aren't scary for one reason or another. They'll be tough for sure, but there's literally no one outside of maybe the top 3 or so that we can't beat with our roster. If Baker is eligible...ooooooh boy.

Also Jeff Borzello has us at 18.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... rly-top-25" target="_blank

I did the roster comparison between us and Oregon earlier in this thread and it's really tough to pick Oregon over Arizona unless your argument is that off the court issues (an NOA) will affect Arizona.

The Gonzaga game is also at McKale, so there's that. Place will be rocking. Our guys will be pumped.

Beachcat97 wrote:The Gonzaga game is also at McKale, so there's that. Place will be rocking. Our guys will be pumped.

Thankfully Dec 14th is in the middle of final exams, so students will all be on campus, and it's a Saturday night so it should make for the perfect end-of-semester / lets-not-focus-on-school event.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:The Gonzaga game is also at McKale, so there's that. Place will be rocking. Our guys will be pumped.

Thankfully Dec 14th is in the middle of final exams, so students will all be on campus, and it's a Saturday night so a should make for the perfect end-of-semester / lets-no-focus-on-school event.

Those Norvell Jr/Williams-Goss/Perkins teams seemed scarier than this one, imo. They had a loaded backcourt that just completely controlled the game in recent seasons. I know they've got some nice new pieces. Fine. But I still love our blend of experience (Hazzard, Jeter, Lee, Gettings) and young guns (Nico, Josh, Zeke, DD).

Beachcat97 wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:The Gonzaga game is also at McKale, so there's that. Place will be rocking. Our guys will be pumped.

Thankfully Dec 14th is in the middle of final exams, so students will all be on campus, and it's a Saturday night so a should make for the perfect end-of-semester / lets-no-focus-on-school event.

Those Norvell Jr/Williams-Goss/Perkins teams seemed scarier than this one, imo. They had a loaded backcourt that just completely controlled the game in recent seasons. I know they've got some nice new pieces. Fine. But I still love our blend of experience (Hazzard, Jeter, Lee, Gettings) and young guns (Nico, Josh, Zeke, DD).

In a rare turn for Gonzaga, they don't have the lead guards that their previous teams have featured. Admon Gilder I like as a starting two guard - he's a great defender and excellent outside shooter, as well as being a very good distributor for his position. But at point guard there's uncertainty between two candidates...

Ryan Woolridge is a grad transfer PG from North Texas - he's an active distributor and has a knack for penetration, but he's turnover prone for a PG (1.6 A:TO and avg'd 3 TO/g) and a poor shooter. He made third team all conference last season in a decidedly bad Conference USA. If he was our point guard, I'd be despondent.

Joel Ayayi is a redshirt sophomore from France who arrived in Spokane in 2017 as a 17 year old and didn't see the floor much last season after redshirting his first year. Ayayi had a breakout summer in the Euro FIBA U19 games and could step into a starting role. That'd be a big jump though for a player who last season only saw garbage minutes.

I'm not nearly as high on this Gonzaga team as the general public, who it feels like is giving deference to Mark Few and his run of success. This one feels like an off year.

Wilner and Columbo (Pascoe)

I’m convinced the writers don’t have a clue about Arizona and most of the other teams. Take Arizona’s players and put a Duke jersey on them and they’d be ranked in the top ten.

zonagrad wrote:I’m convinced the writers don’t have a clue about Arizona and most of the other teams. Take Arizona’s players and put a Duke jersey on them and they’d be ranked in the top ten.

100% agree. Go player by player with the Duke roster and tell me that team is decidedly better than ours...

zonagrad wrote:I’m convinced the writers don’t have a clue about Arizona and most of the other teams. Take Arizona’s players and put a Duke jersey on them and they’d be ranked in the top ten.

I did the deep dive elsewhere, but the similarities between the roster of UNC and Arizona and the disparity in their preseason rankings is striking. Comparisons with Duke are harder because of how much they'll rely on incoming freshman (and the question of how you rate those incoming recruits).

But UNC? It's 1:1. Top incoming PG (check), returning solid center (check), complimentary incoming five star (check), two grad transfers including one gunner and one hybrid creating forward (check and check), upside fan favorite (check), a few holdovers sprinkled in (check).

It's honestly absurd once you lay it all out, then look and see that UNC didn't have a single vote below 14 and Arizona had nearly two dozen unranked votes.

Preseason polls are good discussion-starters, but not much else. Some of these teams ranked in the top 20 will be unranked or just lower ranked by January.

What is funny is Bruce Pascoe didn't rank the Cats. Columbo should know Arizona very well.

Guys, if this season goes the way I'm expecting, it's going to be fun AF to see these haters begrudgingly praise our team.

On the other hand, two years ago we had the number 1 overall pick in the NBA draft and the new face of the Knicks on our roster and couldn’t win a preseason tourney game or get out of the first round of the NCAAs. So I’ll take a wait and see approach.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:On the other hand, two years ago we had the number 1 overall pick in the NBA draft and the new face of the Knicks on our roster and couldn’t get win a preseason tourney game or get out of the first round of the NCAAs. So I’ll take a wait and see approach.

Me: UNC and Gonzaga and Oregon get the benefit of the doubt with huge roster turnover and we don’t? I’m gonna burn this mother down!

Me, who has been disappointed in the past: Yeah let’s have a coke and a smile and shut the fuck up for now.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:On the other hand, two years ago we had the number 1 overall pick in the NBA draft and the new face of the Knicks on our roster and couldn’t get win a preseason tourney game or get out of the first round of the NCAAs. So I’ll take a wait and see approach.

We didn't have a capable pg though. This year we should

84Cat wrote:

ByJoveByJingle wrote:On the other hand, two years ago we had the number 1 overall pick in the NBA draft and the new face of the Knicks on our roster and couldn’t get win a preseason tourney game or get out of the first round of the NCAAs. So I’ll take a wait and see approach.

We didn't have a capable pg though. This year we should

I’ll never get over that. It will never be okay that we spent three years without a point guard before that fourth year without a point guard.

Longhorned wrote: I’ll never get over that. It will never be okay that we spent three years without a point guard before that fourth year without a point guard.

and to make it worse it was deliberate - that’s the most insane and maddening thing about it.

i really, really, really like Sean Miller - hell, I used to love him

but that conscience nonsense four straight years took away a bit of my twinkly-eye shine

True or false: Nico will have a bigger impact as a freshman than Lonzo.

Beachcat97 wrote:True or false: Nico will have a bigger impact as a freshman than Lonzo.

Arizona had the #1 pick, 7ft true Center on its team and couldn’t get the ball past half court - it’s better than that

97cats wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:True or false: Nico will have a bigger impact as a freshman than Lonzo.

Arizona had the #1 pick, 7ft true Center on its team and couldn’t get the ball past half court - it’s better than that

Lonzo Ball?

misunderstood - better than first round exits of years past shitty pg play

97cats wrote:

Longhorned wrote: I’ll never get over that. It will never be okay that we spent three years without a point guard before that fourth year without a point guard.

and to make it worse it was deliberate - that’s the most insane and maddening thing about it.

i really, really, really like Sean Miller - hell, I used to love him

but that conscience nonsense four straight years took away a bit of my twinkly-eye shine

We may be in the same situation next year too.

ChooChooCat wrote:

97cats wrote:

Longhorned wrote: I’ll never get over that. It will never be okay that we spent three years without a point guard before that fourth year without a point guard.

and to make it worse it was deliberate - that’s the most insane and maddening thing about it.

i really, really, really like Sean Miller - hell, I used to love him

but that conscience nonsense four straight years took away a bit of my twinkly-eye shine

We may be in the same situation next year too.

jemarl much more of a 2?

goslingswagg wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

97cats wrote:

Longhorned wrote: I’ll never get over that. It will never be okay that we spent three years without a point guard before that fourth year without a point guard.

and to make it worse it was deliberate - that’s the most insane and maddening thing about it.

i really, really, really like Sean Miller - hell, I used to love him

but that conscience nonsense four straight years took away a bit of my twinkly-eye shine

We may be in the same situation next year too.

jemarl much more of a 2?

For sure, he can handle the 1 in spurts, but you're looking at a Kadeem Allen situation again, which only takes you so far. Think the best hope is BWill is able to return or sanctions aren't so bad to where we can attract a quality grad transfer PG.

ChooChooCat wrote:

goslingswagg wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

97cats wrote:

Longhorned wrote: I’ll never get over that. It will never be okay that we spent three years without a point guard before that fourth year without a point guard.

and to make it worse it was deliberate - that’s the most insane and maddening thing about it.

i really, really, really like Sean Miller - hell, I used to love him

but that conscience nonsense four straight years took away a bit of my twinkly-eye shine

We may be in the same situation next year too.

jemarl much more of a 2?

For sure, he can handle the 1 in spurts, but you're looking at a Kadeem Allen situation again, which only takes you so far. Think the best hope is BWill is able to return or sanctions aren't so bad to where we can attract a quality grad transfer PG.

I'm really rooting for BWill for personal reasons. For basketball reasons, his return would be huge as well.

Lot's of potential passing in next year's roster - DD, Baker, Terry (who 247 ranks as a five star). Point guard by committee?

Adding BWill would be a ton of fun (and a blessing for our dude).

YoDeFoe wrote:Lot's of potential passing in next year's roster - DD, Baker, Terry (who 247 ranks as a five star). Point guard by committee?

Adding BWill would be a ton of fun (and a blessing for our dude).

Could run it a la Gardner/Walton. A sniper at the 1 (Baker qualifies here more than DD would) and Terry running the point forward. I'm probably being very liberal qualifying Gardner as a sniper, maybe I should say ballhandler/scorer, which DD would work under too.

ChooChooCat wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:Lot's of potential passing in next year's roster - DD, Baker, Terry (who 247 ranks as a five star). Point guard by committee?

Adding BWill would be a ton of fun (and a blessing for our dude).

Could run it a la Gardner/Walton. A sniper at the 1 (Baker qualifies here more than DD would) and Terry running the point forward. I'm probably being very liberal qualifying Gardner as a sniper, maybe I should say ballhandler/scorer, which DD would work under too.

If you can consistently advance the ball vs pressure, the motion offense doesn't really require a PG in the half court.

terryarms wrote:

97cats wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:True or false: Nico will have a bigger impact as a freshman than Lonzo.

Arizona had the #1 pick, 7ft true Center on its team and couldn’t get the ball past half court - it’s better than that

Lonzo Ball?

Has there been another guy named Lonzo recently?

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

ChooChooCat wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:Lot's of potential passing in next year's roster - DD, Baker, Terry (who 247 ranks as a five star). Point guard by committee?

Adding BWill would be a ton of fun (and a blessing for our dude).

Could run it a la Gardner/Walton. A sniper at the 1 (Baker qualifies here more than DD would) and Terry running the point forward. I'm probably being very liberal qualifying Gardner as a sniper, maybe I should say ballhandler/scorer, which DD would work under too.

If you can consistently advance the ball vs pressure, the motion offense doesn't really require a PG in the half court.

Good call, and I would expect that those bigger guards won't have trouble advancing the ball against opposing point guards who they'll likely outsize by a handful of inches.

any word on baker yet? is this good news for him?

SunnyAZ wrote:

any word on baker yet? is this good news for him?

Baker has a different case, but WOW the grounds that Grimes won on opens up a whole can of worms and a major loop hole for schools to use to get players eligible immediately.
However if you're looking for light at the end of the tunnel for Baker here's decent news.

Grimes played 36 games for Kansas, declared for the draft and got recruited over. Kansas supported his immediate eligibility so the NCAA approved it. Baker should easily get approved. We should know by next week since we are 10 days away from game 1. Holy shit Im excited.

Jefe wrote:Grimes played 36 games for Kansas, declared for the draft and got recruited over. Kansas supported his immediate eligibility so the NCAA approved it. Baker should easily get approved. We should know by next week since we are 10 days away from game 1. Holy shit Im excited.

Not quite the same situation in that Baker never "left" for the NBA during which time his scholarship got absorbed. BUT... Kentucky did have a full five man class and literally all of them would be competing with Baker for minutes at SG/SF, including three top 25 five stars. Two of those guys committed after Baker announced his transfer, however, so you could make an argument that a scholarship was available for him until he had already decided to transfer. Notably for the "pro-Baker" argument, those commitments were made before Baker had selected a landing spot (i.e. there was no going back).

YoDeFoe wrote:Not quite the same situation in that Baker never "left" for the NBA during which time his scholarship got absorbed. BUT... Kentucky did have a full five man class and literally all of them would be competing with Baker for minutes at SG/SF, including three top 25 five stars. Two of those guys committed after Baker announced his transfer, however, so you could make an argument that a scholarship was available for him until he had already decided to transfer. Notably for the "pro-Baker" argument, those commitments were made before Baker had selected a landing spot (i.e. there was no going back).

I think Baker has a better argument. He had a knee injury that sidelined him for more than 40 games of his college career and then got recruited over.

Grimes avg'd 8/2/2, got bad info and put his name into the draft. After a dose of reality he wants back in at another school and gets to play right away

Jefe wrote:

YoDeFoe wrote:Not quite the same situation in that Baker never "left" for the NBA during which time his scholarship got absorbed. BUT... Kentucky did have a full five man class and literally all of them would be competing with Baker for minutes at SG/SF, including three top 25 five stars. Two of those guys committed after Baker announced his transfer, however, so you could make an argument that a scholarship was available for him until he had already decided to transfer. Notably for the "pro-Baker" argument, those commitments were made before Baker had selected a landing spot (i.e. there was no going back).

I think Baker has a better argument. He had a knee injury that sidelined him for more than 40 games of his college career and then got recruited over.

Grimes avg'd 8/2/2, got bad info and put his name into the draft. After a dose of reality he wants back in at another school and gets to play right away

Baker clearly doesn't qualify for the medical waiver, so an argument about his health won't gain traction.

Grimes entered the draft pool and by the time he'd backed out, KU had recruited a guy for his spot. The NCAA created this whole "you can leave but also come back" structure and they're not going to want to punish either the players or the schools for participating in that structure. Hence - a waiver for Grimes.

Koloko listed by Eric Bossi of Rivals as one of ten players who could outplay their ranking.

https://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com ... ir-ranking" target="_blank