Wisconsin and Duke losses helped us in the voters minds I would guess.
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:45 am
by etank34
splitsecond wrote:Wisconsin and Duke losses helped us in the voters minds I would guess.
Wisconsin's loss came without Kaminsky. Don't read too much into that one.
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:10 pm
by Jefe
30 straight weeks in the Top 10
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:40 pm
by gumby
Strong fingernails.
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:43 pm
by gumby
Zags are No. 3. Is it too late to storm the court?
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:08 am
by gumby
AP Poll: Cats move up to 6. Villanova drops to 7. Utah is 11. Stanford picks up 16 votes. That's it for the conference. Duke is at Notre Dame and at Virginia this week.
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:31 pm
by TheBlackLodge
For those interested, Kenneth Massey has a nice rankings aggregator that updates every week. It also ranks teams by taking the average of all the different polls it lists to make one super duper ultra mega poll. The 'Cats are #6 this week, just like the AP and Coaches poll. (h/t 97cats for this find)
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:13 pm
by gumby
TheBlackLodge wrote:For those interested, Kenneth Massey has a nice rankings aggregator that updates every week. It also ranks teams by taking the average of all the different polls it lists to make one super duper ultra mega poll. The 'Cats are #6 this week, just like the AP and Coaches poll. (h/t 97cats for this find)
Interesting. Oklahoma No. 19, with a 12-7 record, ahead of 18-3 Maryland.
Beavers are No. 69. Ha!
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:18 pm
by Merkin
gumby wrote:
Beavers are No. 69. Ha!
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:00 am
by catgrad97
I would be perfectly content with letting Gonzaga have the 1 seed and us the 2 out West. Very comfortable with where we're at right now.
An explanation for Arizona fans
February 2, 2015 12:32 pm ET
By Gary Parrish
I have three jobs, two kids, one spouse and little free time these days. So I decided a while back that I wouldn't debate random readers when we disagree on where a school should be ranked. Simply put, there just aren't enough hours in the day. So I rank teams every morning, write the Poll Attacks on Mondays, and, beyond that, rarely discuss rankings.
Still, I'm compelled to address why I have Arizona ranked where I have Arizona ranked, if only because Arizona fans keep asking for an explanation and seem genuinely confused and offended by what they perceive as a slight. So here's your explanation, Arizona fans:
The first thing to understand is that, at this point, there isn't much difference between the schools ranked No. 3 and No. 10. I think Kentucky should clearly be No. 1, and I think Virginia should obviously be No. 2. And the next eight teams -- Gonzaga, Duke, Wisconsin, Villanova, Kansas, Arizona, Louisville and Notre Dame -- can reasonably go in almost any order. So while the difference between being ranked No. 3 and No. 10 looks massive on a computer screen, I don't believe the gap is massive in respect to the quality of the teams.
They're all similar college basketball teams.
So why do I have Sean Miller's Wildcats ranked eighth?
It's basically because of the losses to Oregon State and UNLV, which are really "bad losses" relative to the losses other top 10 teams have taken. Oregon State is 83rd in the RPI while UNLV is 108th, meaning Arizona has two losses to teams ranked outside of the top 75.
Do you know how many other top-10 teams have losses to sub-75 schools?
One.
Just Wisconsin.
And Wisconsin's sub-75 loss (at Rutgers) came when Wisconsin's best player (Frank Kaminsky) was sidelined with a concussion. In other words, Arizona has two losses worse than any loss any other healthy top-10 team has taken, and literally nobody ranked in the top 15 of the Top 25 (and one) has more than one sub-75 loss ... except for Arizona.
That matters, I think. And it's not like Arizona has a million top-50 wins to help offset those losses. The Wildcats only have four -- although, in fairness, two are over Gonzaga and Utah, both of which translate to top-15 wins and should be celebrated accordingly.
Bottom line, I really like Arizona. And I think Miller is terrific. And I might pick the Wildcats to make the Final Four (with the proper draw). But, right now, the body of work is somewhat flawed, and that's why Jerry Palm has had Arizona as a No. 3 seed in his bracketology until this morning, and it's why I have the Wildcats ranked where I have them ranked.
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 10:57 am
by Olsondogg
He should just admit that he hasn't watched 1 minute of an Arizona game.
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 11:32 am
by cats101
I thought rankings took into account how a team is currently playing, not the resume
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 1:23 pm
by Katzenfreund
.
Not a horrible loss
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:09 am
by Merkin
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:17 pm
by gumby
Our nation-leading Top 10 streak continues, much to the dismay of hard-ass fans. Amazing since we can't catch, shoot or draw up plays. Those other coaches must be embarrassed to be trailing such a fundamentally unsound coach.
Re: Not a horrible loss
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:01 pm
by 3goggles
Merkin wrote:
I think we should be six. Not a believer in Nova.
Re: #2
Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:33 pm
by Olsondogg
gumby wrote:Our nation-leading Top 10 streak continues, much to the dismay of hard-ass fans. Amazing since we can't catch, shoot or draw up plays. Those other coaches must be embarrassed to be trailing such a fundamentally unsound coach.
They are hardly embarrassed Gumby...they know, as we now do, that Miller has hit the ceiling.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:23 am
by catgrad97
It's a generous ranking, and we should all be thankful for it.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:44 am
by 84Cat
Who should have moved past us? KU lost, Ville lost, ND lost by 30 points to Duke. No one below us deserved to move past us so I thought the ranking was appropriate.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:46 am
by Bear Down Vegas
I can't remember a year when top 10 teams consistently stayed at the same ranking after a loss. Or maybe only drop 1...it really doesn't matter at all - maybe that's what the writers are catching on to.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:38 am
by rgdeuce
In the heat of conference play, lots of teams behind us lost, worked out well for us.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 11:19 am
by splitsecond
Being ranked behind Villanova personally annoys me to no end. Went to law school with a bunch of Nova grads, and they were easily some of the most entitled douchebags I have ever met.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:00 pm
by gumby
84Cat wrote:Who should have moved past us? KU lost, Ville lost, ND lost by 30 points to Duke. No one below us deserved to move past us so I thought the ranking was appropriate.
I'm sure he's just dwelling on OUR loss, not the context. It's a disease that's spreading.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:52 pm
by gumby
Down goes Bucky! That should help our 2-seed-in-the-West chances.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:25 pm
by EVCat
I'm not ready to abandon the #1 seed ship.
Go, teams that play Virginia, Villanova, Gonzaga, Dook, maybe Virginia again, Kansas, Wisconsin (again), maybe Dook again because they are Dook.
The path is right in front of us. See?
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:27 pm
by azgreg
EVCat wrote:I'm not ready to abandon the #1 seed ship.
Go, teams that play Virginia, Villanova, Gonzaga, Dook, maybe Virginia again, Kansas, Wisconsin (again), maybe Dook again because they are Dook.
The path is right in front of us. See?
I think if we win out we get one of them.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:16 pm
by Alieberman
Too many bad losses for a #1. I think we are locked in at a 2
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:28 pm
by azgreg
Alieberman wrote:Too many bad losses for a #1. I think we are locked in at a 2
The teams ahead of us are: Kentucky, Virginia, Duke, Gonzaga, Wisconsin, Villanova, and Kansas. Kentucky is a given. Virginia or Duke won't win their conference or tournament. Kansas lol and Wisky lose moves us ahead of them. I think we move ahead of Gonzaga when all is said and done. There's a chance.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:41 pm
by HibachiZero
How the hell is Villanova ranked ahead of us? Who have they beaten? Not sure why they get so much respect.
BTW we jumped NC to 11in adjO on kenpom after their loss tonight
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:53 pm
by Alieberman
azgreg wrote:
Alieberman wrote:Too many bad losses for a #1. I think we are locked in at a 2
The teams ahead of us are: Kentucky, Virginia, Duke, Gonzaga, Wisconsin, Villanova, and Kansas. Kentucky is a given. Virginia or Duke won't win their conference or tournament. Kansas lol and Wisky lose moves us ahead of them. I think we move ahead of Gonzaga when all is said and done. There's a chance.
Kentucky is a lock
Duke or Virginia is a lock. If they both go to ACC Champ game they may both get #1s
Gonzaga is a #1 if they win out
Wisconsin loss to Maryland is not a bad loss and they should still be ahead of us
For us to have a chance it means these top teams need to finish poorly and we have to win out, which probably means going 3-0 vs Utah this year.... That's a tough task
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:59 pm
by azgreg
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:00 pm
by Spaceman Spiff
What seed we get should matter a lot less than what matchups we get.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:01 pm
by Chicat
We should really try to win out . . . because then we'd be national champs.
Re: #2
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:02 pm
by Alieberman
Chicat wrote:We should really try to win out . . . because then we'd be national champs.
That would really fuck up the Sean Miller Ceiling thread
Re: #2
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:43 am
by Puerco
#2 Kenpom. Kansas isn't even the best in the Big-12.
Re: #2
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:49 am
by Puerco
HibachiZero wrote:How the hell is Villanova ranked ahead of us? Who have they beaten? Not sure why they get so much respect.
BTW we jumped NC to 11in adjO on kenpom after their loss tonight
They're 5-1 against teams in the top 25 RPI. Granted, all of their games except one have been against teams from 20-25, but it still looks good. We're only 3-0 so far.
Would be interesting to see what happens to our rankings if we beat Utah in their place.
Re: #2
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:11 am
by rgdeuce
HibachiZero wrote:How the hell is Villanova ranked ahead of us? Who have they beaten? Not sure why they get so much respect.
BTW we jumped NC to 11in adjO on kenpom after their loss tonight
They are 6-1 against the RPI top 25, that is why. The one thing they do not have is a signature win/game against a top tier team, or even a second tier team. Their best win is a home blowout against VCU, who is not even close to the squad Gonzaga is, and they aren't as good as Utah (regardless of what their RPI says). They look like a really good team but I'd like to see how they look against a top 8 squad. I think we are obviously the better team but them being ahead of us with one less loss and a slightly tougher schedule is not really that egregious.
Re: #2
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:44 am
by dcZONAfan
rgdeuce wrote:
HibachiZero wrote:How the hell is Villanova ranked ahead of us? Who have they beaten? Not sure why they get so much respect.
BTW we jumped NC to 11in adjO on kenpom after their loss tonight
They are 6-1 against the RPI top 25, that is why. The one thing they do not have is a signature win/game against a top tier team, or even a second tier team. Their best win is a home blowout against VCU, who is not even close to the squad Gonzaga is, and they aren't as good as Utah (regardless of what their RPI says). They look like a really good team but I'd like to see how they look against a top 8 squad. I think we are obviously the better team but them being ahead of us with one less loss and a slightly tougher schedule is not really that egregious.
I watched VCU up close and personal and they are not elite. Even with Webber they were good not great, and certainly don't compare to Utah.
I, too, an baffled that Nova is ahead of us but would love to face them in the tourney.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:36 am
by Puerco
Kansas now 3rd in the Big 12 according to Pomeroy.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:42 am
by azgreg
Puerco wrote:Kansas now 3rd in the Big 12 according to Pomeroy.
That should be good enough for a 1 seed.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:56 am
by azgreg
After seeing how the bracketmatrix has responded to the loses this week I've changed my mind. I no think we can get to a 1 seed. Win out and 2 in the West it is.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:20 am
by Spaceman Spiff
Every time I see this thread title, I want to post about my latest bowel movement.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:40 am
by Longhorned
azgreg wrote:After seeing how the bracketmatrix has responded to the loses this week I've changed my mind. I no think we can get to a 1 seed. Win out and 2 in the West it is.
Winning out would be a tall order, but if that were to happen, Arizona would overtake Gonzaga. Gonzaga would have only a single road win against a top-50 RPI opponent: UCLA, if they can hold onto their top-50 ranking (currently #48). Arizona would have road wins against Oregon (#40 and trending upwards) in addition to Utah, which would be a hell of a statement. The most impressive victory on Gonzaga's resume would be SMU (currently #20 RPI), which would be their only top-50 win other than UCLA. Arizona would have beaten UCLA, Oregon twice (or thrice if in conference tourney), Utah twice (or thrice in conference tourney), SDSU (#24 RPI), and Gonzaga itself. Arizona would have a championship and tourney championship in a power conference and an 11-game winning streak featuring serious statement victories. If that happened, Gonzaga would take the 2-seed and/or get shipped.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:47 am
by azgreg
Longhorned wrote:
azgreg wrote:After seeing how the bracketmatrix has responded to the loses this week I've changed my mind. I no think we can get to a 1 seed. Win out and 2 in the West it is.
Winning out would be a tall order, but if that were to happen, Arizona would overtake Gonzaga. Gonzaga would have only a single road win against a top-50 RPI opponent: UCLA, if they can hold onto their top-50 ranking (currently #48). Arizona would have road wins against Oregon (#40 and trending upwards) in addition to Utah, which would be a hell of a statement. The most impressive victory on Gonzaga's resume would be SMU (currently #20 RPI), which would be their only top-50 win other than UCLA. Arizona would have beaten UCLA, Oregon twice (or thrice if in conference tourney), Utah twice (or thrice in conference tourney), SDSU (#24 RPI), and Gonzaga itself. Arizona would have a championship and tourney championship in a power conference and an 11-game winning streak featuring serious statement victories. If that happened, Gonzaga would take the 2-seed and/or get shipped.
If we win out I think we pass Gonzaga, but we won't overtake Kentucky, Duke, Villanova, Wisconsin, or Virginia unless they lose a few more games themselves.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:52 am
by Spaceman Spiff
azgreg wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
azgreg wrote:After seeing how the bracketmatrix has responded to the loses this week I've changed my mind. I no think we can get to a 1 seed. Win out and 2 in the West it is.
Winning out would be a tall order, but if that were to happen, Arizona would overtake Gonzaga. Gonzaga would have only a single road win against a top-50 RPI opponent: UCLA, if they can hold onto their top-50 ranking (currently #48). Arizona would have road wins against Oregon (#40 and trending upwards) in addition to Utah, which would be a hell of a statement. The most impressive victory on Gonzaga's resume would be SMU (currently #20 RPI), which would be their only top-50 win other than UCLA. Arizona would have beaten UCLA, Oregon twice (or thrice if in conference tourney), Utah twice (or thrice in conference tourney), SDSU (#24 RPI), and Gonzaga itself. Arizona would have a championship and tourney championship in a power conference and an 11-game winning streak featuring serious statement victories. If that happened, Gonzaga would take the 2-seed and/or get shipped.
If we win out I think we pass Gonzaga, but we won't overtake Kentucky, Duke, Villanova, Wisconsin, or Virginia unless they lose a few more games themselves.
Duke and Virginia can't win out, so that helps. If we want the easiest Final Four path, getting in the West as a #1 or #2 is the way. Kentucky is staying home, so being in the West dodges the toughest matchup and stays close to home.
If I had to pick a partner at the top of the draw, please give me Duke, Nova or Gonzaga. Being able to beat Duke in a West regional final is obviously the ideal.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:03 am
by Longhorned
azgreg wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
azgreg wrote:After seeing how the bracketmatrix has responded to the loses this week I've changed my mind. I no think we can get to a 1 seed. Win out and 2 in the West it is.
Winning out would be a tall order, but if that were to happen, Arizona would overtake Gonzaga. Gonzaga would have only a single road win against a top-50 RPI opponent: UCLA, if they can hold onto their top-50 ranking (currently #48). Arizona would have road wins against Oregon (#40 and trending upwards) in addition to Utah, which would be a hell of a statement. The most impressive victory on Gonzaga's resume would be SMU (currently #20 RPI), which would be their only top-50 win other than UCLA. Arizona would have beaten UCLA, Oregon twice (or thrice if in conference tourney), Utah twice (or thrice in conference tourney), SDSU (#24 RPI), and Gonzaga itself. Arizona would have a championship and tourney championship in a power conference and an 11-game winning streak featuring serious statement victories. If that happened, Gonzaga would take the 2-seed and/or get shipped.
If we win out I think we pass Gonzaga, but we won't overtake Kentucky, Duke, Villanova, Wisconsin, or Virginia unless they lose a few more games themselves.
There's some truth in that, but we're getting further from the realm of reasonable possibility if Arizona, Wisconsin, and Villanova all win out, and Duke and Virginia also maintain. Villanova would have the advantage of only 2 losses on the season, so they could take that final 1-seed. But 3-loss Wisconsin simply won't have had any opportunity to match the quality of victories by Arizona. If Arizona sweeps this road swing, Arizona will overtake Wisconsin, and Wisconsin wouldn't have a chance to catch up again if Arizona doesn't lose. Wisconsin will have no impressive home wins, and their most impressive road win will be #51 Iowa.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:24 am
by Olsondogg
I'd like to know who Nova has beaten...who is their big win? VCU? Butler? Georgetown?
Pathetic.
Their metrics look good, but they should be getting the same amount of criticism as the Zags do in regards to whom they play. This isn't the Big East of yesteryear...
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:29 am
by gumby
Spaceman Spiff wrote:Every time I see this thread title, I want to post about my latest bowel movement.
Appreciate the restraint.
We still have that Top 10 streak going. A split should maintain it, because Notre Dame, Kansas and Iowa State State have already lost. N. Iowa and Wichita State play each other.
Re: #2
Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:50 am
by azgreg
Olsondogg wrote:I'd like to know who Nova has beaten...who is their big win? VCU? Butler? Georgetown?
Pathetic.
Their metrics look good, but they should be getting the same amount of criticism as the Zags do in regards to whom they play. This isn't the Big East of yesteryear...
