Bear Down Wildcats

York, like Alford is very streaky. Alford ended his bad streak, York started his.

UCLA did a nice job defensively on York and Trier as was mentioned.

“Gabe York was tremendous,” Miller said. “He’s done it a number of times, especially in our road games. I thought him stepping up mid second half was one of the keys to our victory tonight.”

19 points, four threes. Shooting 44 percent from distance, and some of them are really distant.

Anyone think Gabe has even the faintest chance of making an NBA roster this summer?

He'll get invited to a combine or two but no chance

Jefe wrote:He'll get invited to a combine or two but no chance

You're probably right, but I wouldn't underestimate him. He's clearly matured and has really developed into a solid offensive player. I bet he'll play overseas.

Jefe wrote:He'll get invited to a combine or two but no chance

Maybe Portsmouth which is for college seniors only.

Along with being short, his handle is too loose.

He's just turned into a really solid college player and is fun to watch. His development has been steady. He's not a superstar by any stretch but we'd be in a world of hurt without him. I wasn't a fan of York for the last three years, solely because he really only had one job and that was to consistently hit open jumpers. He was fairly inconsistent and many times absent in big games. But he has really made the most of this opportunity and deserves all the credit he gets.

Right now, he's the player we can least afford to lose. I'll also add that he's handled himself with nothing but class and has represented the program extremely well. In this day, that cannot be overlooked.

Yep. Seems to have really matured.

gumby wrote:Yep. Seems to have really matured.

He has matured as a player. I think (for the most part) he has been a pretty mature kid for as long as he has been in the program.

Gabe York will go down as one of my all time most appreciated players. All he did was have his dick riders tell him to transfer to get more run, rumors from everyone every offseason he was transferring, and all he did was not complain, keep his head down, do what CSM said, and get better. He is who I want every player to be. He's got to be a coache's dream. I really want him to get his moment in March. Zeus too.

It would be pretty poetic of those two led CSM to their first final 4. And I bet they would give credit to guys like TJMC for helping them get there. Cuz that's the kind of men they are.

PennZona20 wrote:Gabe York will go down as one of my all time most appreciated players. All he did was have his dick riders tell him to transfer to get more run, rumors from everyone every offseason he was transferring, and all he did was not complain, keep his head down, do what CSM said, and get better. He is who I want every player to be. He's got to be a coache's dream. I really want him to get his moment in March. Zeus too.

It would be pretty poetic of those two led CSM to their first final 4. And I bet they would give credit to guys like TJMC for helping them get there. Cuz that's the kind of men they are.

Very well stated... Love both those guys.

Miller has been behind Gabe 100% for 4 years, and if he was the problem some here have implied I have zero doubt he would not have been.

Not a good look Gabe...

Yeah he should've stuck with the first tweet and not shoot out the second.

But anyways...

Miller may have to bring back the Twitter ban. Come on with that crap man.

Chicat wrote:

Not a good look Gabe...

Not a good look at all! Classless and sounds like a crybaby to me....additionally, a real turnoff to fans.

Hope CSM addresses this.

Bangkok Wildcat wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Not a good look Gabe...

Not a good look at all! Classless and sounds like a crybaby to me....additionally, a real turnoff to fans.

Hope CSM addresses this.

Sorry but this pisses me off I have to respond again.....Gool Lord, I would hope that we would have a Senior Guard who had the mental toughness, LEADERSHIP skill and maturity not to post crap like this in the social media......Wow, how much of a pussy can you be? How embarrassing for the program.... #NotArizonaTough

I get it. Tough loss when the ball was in your hand. But the last thing you should be looking at less than two hours after the game is social media/message boards.

Who cares what we think? We aren't on that court or in practice. Embrace "Just Us" and listen to the coaches and nothing else. Random people you'll never ever meet don't matter, and neither do our opinions. What good can come from addressing them?

Chicat wrote:I get it. Tough loss when the ball was in your hand. But the last thing you should be looking at less than two hours after the game is social media/message boards.

Who cares what we think? We aren't on that court or in practice. Embrace "Just Us" and listen to the coaches and nothing else. Random people you'll never ever meet don't matter, and neither do our opinions. What good can come from addressing them?

Very well-said Chicat......would have thought a Senior would at least know this by now though, SMH. Also would be shocked if CSM doesn't address this with Mr. York personally......will stop at this for now but have a lot of more thoughts on the matter.....

P.S. Man, I am grateful that social media wasnt around when I was Gabe's age with all the stupid things I said and did

Hes gotta know better to stay off twitter after losses like that. Regardless though, its understandable when you take his age into account and have been the whipping boy for a lot of your career here. His successes dont get the same amount of credit as his failures thats for sure. Probably has been building up for quite a while and tonight was the night it came out. Scheers been going hard on Gabe for a minute. Still, gotta know better

I like the tweets. I wish he would have called a few of you out by handle and told you to eat a dick. I would have loved to have seen the whines in here!

No doubt! If you can't hit the shots during the game, you can at least try to hit each and every one after on Twitter! Gotta keep it real.

Not a smart tweet but people need to give him a break and let him vent without taking it too seriously

I don't know if he was addressing Scheer with those remarks but I will say that sometimes Scheer posts some dumb tweets for a person in his position

Harvey Specter wrote:

gumby wrote:Yep. Seems to have really matured.

He has matured as a player. I think (for the most part) he has been a pretty mature kid for as long as he has been in the program.

Judging from his latest Tweets, he could probably stand to mature some more.

Gabe wasn't the reason we lost last night, but after all the bad shooting nights he's had, he really should've grown thicker skin than to lash out on Twitter like that.

Probably would be best for athletes to stay off Twitter altogether during the season, and especially after a tough loss. Nothing to be gained from the 2nd tweet, and not a good look.

But it doesn't really bother me... As for the comments about expecting more from a senior guard - were you as bothered by comments from our head coach last fall? Not sure how this is a whole lot different. The pain of the E8 loss was far greater, but the message is the same - only more harsh

"Finally to the people that try to make us feel like our season was a failure. Go cheer for ASU!"

That one did not bother me either... but I assume some here were put off by it?

That end-of-game failure last night is more on Miller, isn't it? Don't we need a better strategy in that situation?

Wasn't Sean Miller making similar comments after the elite 8 loss? Something along the lines of if you don't support us, we don't need you?

Salty wrote:Wasn't Sean Miller making similar comments after the elite 8 loss? Something along the lines of if you don't support us, we don't need you?

Don't worry about reading any other posts before you chime in Salty.

Salty wrote:Wasn't Sean Miller making similar comments after the elite 8 loss? Something along the lines of if you don't support us, we don't need you?

Oh, I support them 100%. That doesn't change. But it's concerning to lose so many of these games in our final possession, whether we're on defense (UCLA) or offense (USC, Cal).

I think York said what he said because Miller has made similar comments before, maybe it's a team thing.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Salty wrote:Wasn't Sean Miller making similar comments after the elite 8 loss? Something along the lines of if you don't support us, we don't need you?

Oh, I support them 100%. That doesn't change. But it's concerning to lose so many of these games in our final possession, whether we're on defense (UCLA) or offense (USC, Cal).

Sincere comment here...

You are a different poster of late.... Keeping your head after disappointing losses and maintaining perspective at every turn.

Some constructive criticism is warranted with any team and coach - and I have not seen anything other than that from you after these recent tough losses.

Chicat wrote:

Salty wrote:Wasn't Sean Miller making similar comments after the elite 8 loss? Something along the lines of if you don't support us, we don't need you?

Don't worry about reading any other posts before you chime in Salty.

I am pretty sure Salty has me on ignore

Harvey Specter wrote:

Chicat wrote:

Salty wrote:Wasn't Sean Miller making similar comments after the elite 8 loss? Something along the lines of if you don't support us, we don't need you?

Don't worry about reading any other posts before you chime in Salty.

I am pretty sure Salty has me on ignore

No, I just missed your comment.

Harvey Specter wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:

Salty wrote:Wasn't Sean Miller making similar comments after the elite 8 loss? Something along the lines of if you don't support us, we don't need you?

Oh, I support them 100%. That doesn't change. But it's concerning to lose so many of these games in our final possession, whether we're on defense (UCLA) or offense (USC, Cal).

Sincere comment here...

You are a different poster of late.... Keeping your head after disappointing losses and maintaining perspective at every turn.

Some constructive criticism is warranted with any team and coach - and I have not seen anything other than that from you after these recent tough losses.

Well, it's a strange year with all new faces and injuries. Heading into the season, I was expecting that this would be our A-team:

PJC
GY
RS
RA
KT

Instead, it's been:

GY
AT
KA
RA
KT

And AT got injured shortly after KT came back, so now we're at:

KA
GY
MT
RA
KT

I don't really have expectations this year. Just taking it game to game. We're not rolling through our schedule as we did the past two seasons. The Pac is better, and we're not as dominant. I do think we'll win our remaining home games, but beyond that, who knows? I don't think we'll win the Pac tourney again, not with our end-of-game problem. But I like our chances to get to the Sweet 16, regardless of draw.

Here's hoping we can finish strong and that JJ makes us all very happy in a few months. I want to see this in '16-'17:

KA
AT
JJ
RS
DR

York shooting 38% on the road in conference play.

Beachcat97 wrote:That end-of-game failure last night is more on Miller, isn't it? Don't we need a better strategy in that situation?

I was too pissed to watch the end of game presser, but I can't imagine Miller told York to pound the ball on the deck for 10 seconds then drive and toss up a desperation shot when York has such poor handles which was evident end of game USC. Did York even look for another player to pass to?

York was probably pissed about the "hero ball" comments on Twitter, but like Scheer alluded, what else do you call it?

From the end of game thread:

Main Event wrote:

Merkin wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:That end-of-game failure last night is more on Miller, isn't it? Don't we need a better strategy in that situation?

I was too pissed to watch the end of game presser, but I can't imagine Miller told York to pound the ball on the deck for 10 seconds then drive and toss up a desperation shot when York has such poor handles which was evident end of game USC. Did York even look for another player to pass to?

York was probably pissed about the "hero ball" comments on Twitter, but like Scheer alluded, what else do you call it?
f[/img]

[/quote]

I don't think he told him that either. But aren't end-of-game situations something a team has to work on in practice? I haven't gotten the impression vs. USC or Cal that our guys were prepared for these situations when there are no TOs.

Keeping a TO in your back pocket for situations like last night would be nice

Cal used their last TO with 4 minutes left.

Alieberman wrote:Keeping a TO in your back pocket for situations like last night would be nice

Right, but I get the sense that most here think the play out of a TO would look very similar to what we ran.

Miller said post game that if he would have had to do it over again that he would have still called those 2 early TOs in the second half again. It did get the team on track after the worst 4 minutes in the CSM era that I can remember.

Lute wouldn't have called a time out even if he had one.

But doubt would put York out there again after his fiasco v. USC,

Merkin wrote:Miller said post game that if he would have had to do it over again that he would have still called those 2 early TOs in the second half again. It did get the team on track after the worst 4 minutes in the CSM era that I can remember.

Lute wouldn't have called a time out even if he had one.

But doubt would put York out there again after his fiasco v. USC,

So when this happens again -- and you know it'll happen again -- does CSM go with Trier once he's back? I'm anticipating Trier will be back by the Pac tourney, perhaps sooner. Trier has a quicker first step than York and has shown an impressive ability to create his shot and get to the rim.

Harvey Specter wrote: But it doesn't really bother me... As for the comments about expecting more from a senior guard - were you as bothered by comments from our head coach last fall? Not sure how this is a whole lot different. The pain of the E8 loss was far greater, but the message is the same - only more harsh

"Finally to the people that try to make us feel like our season was a failure. Go cheer for ASU!"

That one did not bother me either... but I assume some here were put off by it?

That was EXACTLY what I thought of when I read the tweet. I guess the argument is, let the coach be the one to do it, just like handling refs on bad calls. When I read Gabe's tweet I cringed and though, "come on now Gabe." Just not a good look, especially considering the timing of it. But I wasn't offended by it or Miller saying more of the same last year. All fan bases have shitty fans, but there is being critical, and then there is being a crying moron that criticizes everything and/or has no clue of what they are talking about, or not having a grasp of reality. The reality is, Tucson and Arizona in general is a fairweather sports state. We all know how Phoenix is with ASU, the Cardinals, Suns, and DBacks. We know how things are here for football. Arizona Basketball is the most beloved and well-supported sports team in the state. But we also have a lot of fans who have no understanding of sports, who miss a lot of games because they dont watch when their teams arent winning, who call for coaches heads on a consistent basis (remember how many people wanted Miller fired?), and just like to bitch and whine. Obviously I am not speaking for all fans, we certainly have a lot of diehards and knowledgeable fans, but there are a lot who are idiots and are very vocal. Hence Miller's comments. Some people just dont understand how good we have it.

Individual players are going to piss you off. I've had more than a few in my day, on every team I've rooted for, it's normal. There are guys who are going to jump out at you after a loss and some people are going to instinctively blame those particular players after. When Gabe has an off day it happens to him pretty much every time and he gets dumped on. When Gabe shoots us back into games, hits big shots, or has a great game, he doesn't get the same level of positive. At the end of the day, some people need to understand he is who he is. He's a shooter. For every shooter than can come in night in and night out and be consistent with infrequent bad nights, there are boatloads of guys who are going to be streakier and have far more off nights. If people don't like his chucking, part of that blame goes on Miller. Miller trusts him and has continued to verbally express that Gabe has the green light. Yes, on some nights you are going to scream out for him to stop shooting, but this is something that comes with the territory. Sometimes Ricky Henderson is going to be the tying run and get caught stealing at 2nd with a constant green light from the manager.

But people have to look at the big picture here, he is a high volume three point shooter and still is shooting over 43 percent. He has won us games, or helped put away wins more than just a few times. Yes, his defense can be bad at times, but he is still a better defender than several guys and we can really play the defensive blame game with most of our team. With all of the guys we have seen leave the program, Gabe was the one who stuck around. The guy who had to watch Stanley Johnson, Nick Johnson, TJ, Mark Lyons, even Jordin Mayes play the front and center while he either didn't play much, or came off the bench. He got moved from starter to bench more than once. Don't know if I have ever heard of him complaining about all that. This team, while good, has its flaws. While Gabe contributes to some of them, he also evens out some.

We are a spoiled fanbase. We are having a down year that would be the best year in the modern history of ASU. Our tournament "failures" are seasons that would be tremendous successes for all but the very elite programs.

How many Pac teams have made an elite eight since 2000? Off the top of my head, UCLA, Oregon and Furd are it. We have six, and there are people who consider them failures.

Here's what Cal teaches: we need to not have dead zones and let teams go on runs. When we have a team down 6, we need to have a killer instinct and push to 10. The last play, York mishandled it and still got a makeable shot. They miss sometimes.

Merkin wrote:Miller said post game that if he would have had to do it over again that he would have still called those 2 early TOs in the second half again. It did get the team on track after the worst 4 minutes in the CSM era that I can remember.

Lute wouldn't have called a time out even if he had one.

But doubt would put York out there again after his fiasco v. USC,

What do you think happens the next time it's a last shot scenario and Arizona has the ball? Third time the charm for York or does Miller decide to work the ball inside to a post player?

rgdeuce wrote:
But people have to look at the big picture here, he is a high volume three point shooter and still is shooting over 43 percent. He has won us games, or helped put away wins more than just a few times. Yes, his defense can be bad at times, but he is still a better defender than several guys and we can really play the defensive blame game with most of our team. With all of the guys we have seen leave the program, Gabe was the one who stuck around. The guy who had to watch Stanley Johnson, Nick Johnson, TJ, Mark Lyons, even Jordin Mayes play the front and center while he either didn't play much, or came off the bench. He got moved from starter to bench more than once. Don't know if I have ever heard of him complaining about all that. This team, while good, has its flaws. While Gabe contributes to some of them, he also evens out some.

Amen. Excellent post. Gabe is our guy this year. We should just embrace him in his final year; he deserves it.

York has been given 2 opportunities to make a play end of game with both USC and Cal. Both times he mishandled his dribble and ended up taking a bad shot. Maybe CSM was trying to get York some PG experience to show the scouts, I dunno.


Allen was completely wide open for a 3 point shot or better. You think York would have been at that spot, and Allen the ball handler. Don't know what was going through CSM's mind though.

Merkin wrote:York has been given 2 opportunities to make a play end of game with both USC and Cal. Both times he mishandled his dribble and ended up taking a bad shot. Maybe CSM was trying to get York some PG experience to show the scouts, I dunno.


Allen was completely wide open for a 3 point shot or better. You think York would have been at that spot, and Allen the ball handler. Don't know what was going through CSM's mind though.

York is the best scorer on the team (especially with Trier out). I would wager Miller's thought pattern is that you want your best scorer taking the last shot.

It's difficult to impossible to create for a post player in last shot scenarios. The D can double and if they can rotate well, they can just rotate the clock out. So that leaves perimeter players.

Miller has consistently gone high pick and roll for last shots. I like Allen, but I'm not sure I like him better in high p+r. With Gabe, you have to go over the top of the screen. With Allen, I don't think you do, and that gives the defense options.

Amen. Excellent post. Gabe is our guy this year. We should just embrace him in his final year; he deserves it.[/quote]

It is one thing to say that Gabe is our guy this year and deserves minutes, praise for sticking it out, the benefit of the doubt, etc., but it is quite another to get to "he is our guy in last second situations." These end-of-game scenarios are just above his pay-grade. York has average or below average handles for a guard. He has gotten into a lot of trouble dribbling into traffic this year, something that gets masked when he goes on a streak and hits four three-pointers in two minutes during a particular game.

I love Sean Miller, but if I had one criticism it would be that his last-second game planning is too predictable. A couple of years ago the plan was to give the ball to Nick Johnson in isolation. Now the plan is to give the ball to York in isolation. There tends to be very little movement outside of the primary ballhandler. The thing is that I don't mind York taking the last shot - he just shouldn't be the one to create it. York just doesn't have point guard quality court vision. He is a shooter and when the ball is in his hands in those situations he is only thinking about getting his - the problem is that the other team always knows that.

Yes and no. I remember York missing off a screen to win it in regulation against Wisky the year NJ got the charge call in ot.

In late game situations, having a player make the play is very important. As I posted, the D has an advantage they lack in most normal possessions: the clock. You need to have someone who can create, and right now, who do we have that's better than Gabe? Maybe Allen, but that is it, and he has his own set of limitations.

It's just a low percentage situation on average.