Bear Down Wildcats

When you are stuck in the D- league and you were one year away from getting your degree. I wouldn't call it a good decision.

Dave wrote:When you are stuck in the D- league and you were one year away from getting your degree. I wouldn't call it a good decision.

There is no timeline on the ability to get a degree. There is a timeline on how long you can play basketball at a high level. I have no issue with a player being more concerned with maximizing the short window of basketball.

Chicat wrote: As for Ashley, the best explanation I heard was that sometimes kids are just done with college and want to move on to playing professionally. We saw that with Michael Wright (RIP) as well. Their draft evaluations weren't such that you'd expect them to leave early, but they didn't want to come back to school and went pro anyway.

I remember Jawann McClellan was offered an opportunity to apply for a medical redshirt and come back for a 5th year. He said no, he is just done with school. Not all college students are meant for college.

Merkin wrote:

Chicat wrote: As for Ashley, the best explanation I heard was that sometimes kids are just done with college and want to move on to playing professionally. We saw that with Michael Wright (RIP) as well. Their draft evaluations weren't such that you'd expect them to leave early, but they didn't want to come back to school and went pro anyway.

I remember Jawann McClellan was offered an opportunity to apply for a medical redshirt and come back for a 5th year. He said no, he is just done with school. Not all college students are meant for college.

If I am remembering correctly, Jawann also had some major issues with those knees as well.

But yeah, people always trying to project what people should/should not do from the outside is sometimes not relevant to what is actually going on.

This kid is special. I have a feeling Arizona fans are going to be very
happy to see him running at McKale.

The whole time I was watching that slo-mo slam I was thinking, "Please don't tear your ACL."

This is what I've been reduced to as an Arizona fan....

Simmons and Norris were across the arena directly in front of me. Was impressed with how engaged Kobi was during the game, not sure I saw him take out his cell phone once, during timeouts included. I know firsthand how to be on your best behavior on recruiting visits, at least when coaches are around, but I still think that speaks volumes. Norris was the opposite, but maybe he gets a pass due to his age. The person with seats next to me got to meet both before the game and had good things to say about Simmons. Saturday was far from the loudest game of the season, but there were a few loud moments. During one of them during a second half run, you could see Simmons scanning the crowd and probably thinking to himself, holy shit this place is awesome.

rgdeuce wrote:Simmons and Norris were across the arena directly in front of me. Was impressed with how engaged Kobi was during the game, not sure I saw him take out his cell phone once, during timeouts included. I know firsthand how to be on your best behavior on recruiting visits, at least when coaches are around, but I still think that speaks volumes. Norris was the opposite, but maybe he gets a pass due to his age. The person with seats next to me got to meet both before the game and had good things to say about Simmons. Saturday was far from the loudest game of the season, but there were a few loud moments. During one of them during a second half run, you could see Simmons scanning the crowd and probably thinking to himself, holy shit this place is awesome.

First, I hate you and am so jealous of your ability to go the games, lol....

Second, awesome Intel.....very, very cool to hear. Sounds like the type of kid we will love to cheer for a Arizona.

Thanks rgdeuce!

Chicat wrote:The whole time I was watching that slo-mo slam I was thinking, "Please don't tear your ACL."

This is what I've been reduced to as an Arizona fan....

Every time a player thread is bumped.

On Grant Jerrett...our fanbase is, of course, bitter with the way he left. Especially considering his final play as a Cat may have cost us yet another Elite Eight. But, damn...we could have used him back the following year. When BASH went down, it would have been real nice to come with a stretch 4 with extended minutes allowing us to move AG back and forth from 3 to 4 based on matchups. We lost a national title, IMO, when BASH went down. That could have been mitigated by having a 6th/7th man

As for Kobi...he came from out of nowhere so fast, I didn't get the usual obsessive watching of his high school stats/games. Seems like someone we can put at PG right away, but not a classic pass first PG. Which is fine...the pass first PG isn't a requirement, especially in the college game, and being able to put pressure on the defense from 5 spots is a nice luxury to have. Hell...we all wanted TJ to be a little more selfish if anything, and he finally was his senior year when I swore if we needed a basket, he'd get it. I don't necessarily want Mark Lyons again, but he wasn't all that bad to have. We have a lot of room to improve at the 1, and just having another option is great. I love that he seems to be fully on board for a kid who didn't come to "love" Arizona right away. Hopefully Tucson seduces him in his time here like so many others from very different places...it is truly one of the special things about this program, the player loyalty.

(nope...no ACL tear)

I hold nothing against Grant, was more sad that he pissed away a great thing by listening to poor advice from people he thought were looking out for his best interests. Truthfully, as that season wore on, I thought he was going to be the better player between he and Ashley long term. Too many what ifs to look back on though, the nature of the beast in college basketball these days, we could do that with Stanley, Gordon, Nick, Grant.. Any one of those four guys dont leave early we already have another F4 banner up or are strong favorites to put one up this year.

rgdeuce wrote:I hold nothing against Grant, was more sad that he pissed away a great thing by listening to poor advice from people he thought were looking out for his best interests. Truthfully, as that season wore on, I thought he was going to be the better player between he and Ashley long term. Too many what ifs to look back on though, the nature of the beast in college basketball these days, we could do that with Stanley, Gordon, Nick, Grant.. Any one of those four guys dont leave early we already have another F4 banner up or are strong favorites to put one up this year.

Given the hype and potential, Grant is probably the biggest disappointment of the Miller era besides Josiah.

I'm not going to turn this thread into a Grant Jerrett thread, so his talk in a Kobi Simmons thread should end with this:

Grant Jerrett didn't give two shits about basketball.

His was gifted physically. That's where his appreciation of the game begins and ends.

He saw it as a possible meal ticket, but even when toiling on a shitty team from a shitty town in the shitty DLeague for shifty pay he would rather watch a marathon of a shitty show like That 70s Show than practice to change his situation.

It's not a surprise he busted. Frankly, my fellow fans, he didn't give a damn.

Him staying doesn't change much about that team. I truly believe that now.

He just didn't have what it took to make a difference.


Kobi Simmons, on the other hand...

Great read on Kobi:

http://www.todaysu.com/recruiting/cbb-r ... i-simmons/" target="_blank

http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft" target="_blank

Say what you will about nbadraft.net, but I do think it's interesting that at least one source/person considers KS a better prospect than AT.

Imagine if we have 4 (or 5, if Rawle came) first rounders in 2017. That would be insane. That's without Lauri who, by all intents and purposes, outplayed Adebayo in their head to head matchup a few weeks ago and Adebayo is listed at 12. Plus, I believe the NBA believes CSM can really teach these kids defense in a more meaningful way than most college coaches, a skill that translates right away. Good god.

Just looked at the mock draft for '16, and as a Celtics fan it looks insane.

#3 Dragan Bender
#19 Henry Ellenson
#23 Damion Jones (don't think he's all that special personally)
#31 GPII
#35 AJ Hammons
#49 Ron Baker
#51 Jarrod Uthoff
#57 Alex Poythress

They will undoubtedly trade picks, but man is that a wealth of options

Beachcat97 wrote:http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Say what you will about nbadraft.net, but I do think it's interesting that at least one source/person considers KS a better prospect than AT.

Simmons is a 6'5 pg and Trier is a 6'4 (maybe) sg. That's the difference. If Trier was 6'6, he's going higher than Stanley.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Say what you will about nbadraft.net, but I do think it's interesting that at least one source/person considers KS a better prospect than AT.

Simmons is a 6'5 pg and Trier is a 6'4 (maybe) sg. That's the difference. If Trier was 6'6, he's going higher than Stanley.

Yeah, I get that. But AT has already proven he can get 15 to 20 PPG at a very high level of competition, and more and more, it's becoming obvious he'll play in the NBA, at least to me. I haven't watched KS yet, but if he's actually considered a better prospect than AT, that speaks volumes about the quality of player we're getting in KS. Wow.

Beachcat97 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Beachcat97 wrote:http://www.nbadraft.net/2017mock_draft

Say what you will about nbadraft.net, but I do think it's interesting that at least one source/person considers KS a better prospect than AT.

Simmons is a 6'5 pg and Trier is a 6'4 (maybe) sg. That's the difference. If Trier was 6'6, he's going higher than Stanley.

Yeah, I get that. But AT has already proven he can get 15 to 20 PPG at a very high level of competition, and more and more, it's becoming obvious he'll play in the NBA, at least to me. I haven't watched KS yet, but if he's actually considered a better prospect than AT, that speaks volumes about the quality of player we're getting in KS. Wow.

He's a top 20 prospect with good measurables. Trier's size is not ideal.

NBA draft is not about production. Simmons's rano is about dead on with his hs rank and having a good NBA body. Trier is where he is bc his natural position is SG and his body is PG.

The rank comparison you see has less to do with Simmons and more to do with Trier. Look at where they have Tyler Ulis rated in 2017.

And although Trier has those nice one-on-one moves, that great body control and finishes well with both hands, Simmons appears to be superior athletically with the quickness and explosiveness. I think Trier is going to be a very solid scoring option off an NBA bench, but Simmons has the higher ceiling with his total package. And I'm sure it has already been said, probably by Spliff, JMarkJohns, or TucsonClip, but Simmons is 6'5 and has shown he can play the point (on a level with elite peers), Trier is 6'4 and hasn't.

Edit: should probably read first

Is better than any guard we have on our roster right now. Watching this McDonald's game, he's running the point and he'd be more than capable of running the point for us...good size and speed and handle, good passing, and would work especially well if he had Josh Jackson running with him

Him and Ferguson would be great guards, and Jackson, Alkins, Markennan and Ristic would be great front court players. Yeah...we'd have a good team.

Throwing oops off the backboard to himself. Kid has some ability.

You can't tell tonight because no one's playing D, but if he can adapt on D to what Miller wants, he'll be legit.

Best ball handler and passer and a good offensive game, he'll eventually be the PG in the starting 5. I know Miller loves experience but Kobi > Allen/PJC

And according to TFerg, Kobi is the #1 recruiter for us, even of the coaches. Love him already.

I love that this guy is busy recruiting his competition to come play on his team. He's not scared about PT, he wants to WIN.

LOVE IT.

azpatnca wrote:I love that this guy is busy recruiting his competition to come play on his team. He's not scared about PT, he wants to WIN.

LOVE IT.

If he's serious about being a PG, having Ferguson or Jackson on the other end of your passes will rack up some assists.

When does Terrance Ferguson get his own thread?

Needs to stop shooting 3s yikes

NYCat wrote:

Where does Terrance Ferguson get his own thread?

That's not how it's spelled or really anything else.

TheGreatCatsby wrote:Is better than any guard we have on our roster right now. Watching this McDonald's game, he's running the point and he'd be more than capable of running the point for us...good size and speed and handle, good passing, and would work especially well if he had Josh Jackson running with him

Him and Ferguson would be great guards, and Jackson, Alkins, Markennan and Ristic would be great front court players. Yeah...we'd have a good team.

I disagree. There is no way to tell, in an all-star game where NOBODY is playing defense, whether Simmons can play the point at the college level. Will he be able to hold onto the ball with a Payton or Dillon Brooks in his jockstrap actually trying to take the ball away from him??? The token (and thats being generous) defense we saw KS play against tonight is no indication of how he will be able to handle the ball at the college level.

By the way, Millers top recruiting target is not Jackson/Ferguson........its Alonzo Trier. Hopefully Sean (with perhaps a little NBA help from someone named Kerr) can convince him that he is better served in the long run by returning to college.

Kobi very impressive tonight. He really can be our starting point guard day 1. Then we can move PJC back to like a 10-15 min/game backup role.

TheGreatCatsby wrote:Kobi very impressive tonight. He really can be our starting point guard day 1. Then we can move PJC back to like a 10-15 min/game backup role.

My hope:

PG--KS/KA
SG--AT/RA

I would hope Kadeem responds to make it a competition for the starting role.

All Star game or not, the kid has talent. He was just tryin to get his nut like everyone else on some of those missed threes, but he showed a lot of positive "point guard" attributes. Unless the kid comes in as a human turnover and doesnt play a lick of D, i dont see how he is behind PJC on a depth chart and if he is, it wont be that long.

rgdeuce wrote:All Star game or not, the kid has talent. He was just tryin to get his nut like everyone else on some of those missed threes, but he showed a lot of positive "point guard" attributes. Unless the kid comes in as a human turnover and doesnt play a lick of D, i dont see how he is behind PJC on a depth chart and if he is, it wont be that long.

Serious question: what happened to Kadeem? I agree that Simmons plays ahead of PJC unless he has no interest in D or ball control. Allen is the only one I could see preventing him from starting, but everyone is talking about Simmons vs PJC, which I don't see as a competition?

Is Allen good on ball player/ball handler? I don't think so, he certainly can do it but he can and has struggled. Kobi will be the best at bringing up the ball and will be able to handle pressure. And when he does bring up the ball, he can penetrate the paint and distribute better than Allen.

And btw De'Aaron Fox didn't look very good, he didn't struggle but didn't look elite. Finesse.

I have Kadeem ahead of PJC on my depth chart if thats what youre askin Spliff. Was just speaking in terms of this making PJC obsolete. theres been talk of Kadeem getting his time off ball. I just dont see PJC getting much time at this point, especially if Ferguson commits. Kadeems going to get minutes somewhere and if we are two deep at the 2 and 3 (could be even deeper than that if Trier or JJ is on the roster), I just dont see any place or need for PJC cuz Kadeems going to be getting minutes as the backup PG.

rgdeuce wrote:I have Kadeem ahead of PJC on my depth chart if thats what youre askin Spliff. Was just speaking in terms of this making PJC obsolete. theres been talk of Kadeem getting his time off ball. I just dont see PJC getting much time at this point, especially if Ferguson commits. Kadeems going to get minutes somewhere and if we are two deep at the 2 and 3 (could be even deeper than that if Trier or JJ is on the roster), I just dont see any place or need for PJC cuz Kadeems going to be getting minutes as the backup PG.

I agree with that basically. If we get Trier back and one of JJ/TF (or both if we lose Trier) we're stacked on the wing and I think we just roll with Allen and Kobi at PG.

Allen/PJC interchangeable/replaceable, doesn't really matter if we can get elite studs like Ferguson and Jackson to join Simmons. But Simmons clearly better than the Allen/PJC combo, neither would be starting on any sweet 16 team this year in the backcourt, it's just one of them at least is going to be a backup at some point. Agree Allen more a 2 guard than a 1, his 7 turnovers in the tournament exposed him as a point guard.

Its a good thing the season starts in 6-7 months and not tomorrow, right? Lol. A year under his belt and plenty of time to tighten things up. Think there was a one turnover differential between the two of them over the season. I bet if you looked at the other side of the ball, that one turnover gets made up for on defense pretty easily

Well if I had to pick it would be Allen as a backup pg, but Sean isn't just going to bench PJC...kinda stuck with him it seems. Recruited him too early, and he just didn't grow. PJC will play ok at times at home, be ineffective on the road, but not someone I'd like seeing get over 10 min a game.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:Throwing oops off the backboard to himself. Kid has some ability.

You can't tell tonight because no one's playing D, but if he can adapt on D to what Miller wants, he'll be legit.

Not sure about the no defense comment. This actually looked like a basketball game

Kobi Simmons Recruiting Terrance Ferguson Hard

Arizona likely has the big early lead over hometown Baylor because Ferguson has already taken an official there, but Simmons may be having some sort of influence on him, too. Simmons and Ferguson are together at the McDonald's All-American game and Ferguson says that Simmons is pushing hard for him to join him as a Wildcat.

Simmons downplayed his recruitment of Ferguson this week but he did say that he has thrown in a few jokes about the two of them playing together at Arizona next year. As it stands currently, Arizona has the seventh best recruiting class in the nation with five-stars Simmons and Rawle Alkins being joined by four-star Lauri Markkanen. That class ranking has a chance to get a whole lot better though...

http://www.hngn.com/articles/193805/201 ... kansas.htm" target="_blank

Someday you guys are going to have to sit me down and help me understand why these posts continue to have him "run" the point, "be serious" about playing point guard, and regard wings as potential competition for his minutes. He is a point guard. That's why he was a point guard last night. A cheeseburger doesn't want to be a cheeseburger. If a coach were to put him at the 2, he'd have to adapt and play out of position.

dcZONAfan wrote:Just looked at the mock draft for '16, and as a Celtics fan it looks insane.

#3 Dragan Bender
#19 Henry Ellenson
#23 Damion Jones (don't think he's all that special personally)
#31 GPII
#35 AJ Hammons
#49 Ron Baker
#51 Jarrod Uthoff
#57 Alex Poythress

They will undoubtedly trade picks, but man is that a wealth of options

Im a Celtics fan too. This is not the draft to be pumped about having eight picks for though. Bender may be nice, but imagine 2017 having a shot at Josh Jackson or several others from that crop? Bender may not even be a top 10 pick in that 2017 draft. Damion Jones is a good college player but he's probably a 12-15 roster guy on the Celtics. We already have a better GPII in Marcus Smart. Mid-Major shooters, why do we need another RJ Hunter and take Ron Baker? Poythress is meh. I dont see how Ellenson drops out of the lottery to where we would snag him with the 19th pick (now the 16th I believe). I know things have shaken up a little since you posted this, but the Celtics need a future star or significant trade bait, we are good on the role players. Draft picks arent going to be that coveted this year to where we will get a lot in return.

Longhorned wrote:Someday you guys are going to have to sit me down and help me understand why these posts continue to have him "run" the point, "be serious" about playing point guard, and regard wings as potential competition for his minutes. He is a point guard. That's why he was a point guard last night. A cheeseburger doesn't want to be a cheeseburger. If a coach were to put him at the 2, he'd have to adapt and play out of position.

I agree. A pass first point guard and a point guard who can score and looks to get his shot more than others are still both point guards. You watch him last night, and you could clearly see his interest in the assist. He was trying to get others buckets. Yes, he took some ill-advised shots too, but its an all star game and he clearly wanted to do both. He knows it is in his best interest to rack up the assists and set others up because he wants to be drafted in the best slot possible and that is what NBA execs want to see. He will be in a more "controlled" environment playing with us. I wasnt watching last nights game wanting to see a TJ. I was looking at specific attributes. He delivered on most of the ones I was looking for. And by the way he is wanting to recruit and bring in all these dudes, hes a leader and he wants to win. These are guys who take shots and glory from him in individual terms. That speaks volumes to me.

And for all this talk about no defense, I saw some, but Josh Jackson took that Tatum match up personal. He was hell bent on making his life a nightmare in an all star game and he had Tatum looking very ordinary out there. He was on him hard. And if Tatum got a step on him he recovered like it was nothing and was still able to put an outstanding contest on the shot. Aaron Gordon like, which is another reason he needs to come play for Miller. He did that 3 or 4 times at least. He had a couple really nice ball strips and a block or two that made my jaw drop too. He will be an elite defender next year at the college level and he has the potential to be the same in the NBA and guard multiple positions like AG does. Jackson exceeded my expectations last night in every way possible.

I was impressed with him last night. He's going to be an excellent player for us. One thing I noticed that really stood out was that his team was down by 16 (in a fairly meaningless game, win wise) and he was being a leader and getting pumped when his team started to climb back into it. The kid wasn't there thinking NBA (well, maybe a little but it was;t obvious). He wanted to win. He showed desire. We didn't have that this year. We need it.

Longhorned wrote:Someday you guys are going to have to sit me down and help me understand why these posts continue to have him "run" the point, "be serious" about playing point guard, and regard wings as potential competition for his minutes. He is a point guard. That's why he was a point guard last night. A cheeseburger doesn't want to be a cheeseburger. If a coach were to put him at the 2, he'd have to adapt and play out of position.

I agree Kobi definitely looked like a pure point guard last night. Just with his size, and the tendency for elite high school players to want to shoot a lot and score, the tendency is to think of him more as a shooting guard than a point guard. But Kobi doesn't have to fit that 2 mold, and given that we have no good point guard on the roster, Kobi would be like a godsend, especially if he gets Ferguson to run with him at the 2 (or Trier), and we reload our bigs.

And ya know, the way he is recruiting Jackson and Ferguson hard, that shows leadership, a peak into this mindset that also happens to work very well to be our point guard taking on a leadership role for the team.

I think this is a good year for a good team to try and acquire value depth, but a bad year for bad teams to acquire value talent.

Top tier this year is a tier or two below the elite talents from last few drafts in both quality and quantity.

I like Simmons, Ingram, Bender, Dunn, but I'm not sure any go top-10 last year besides Simmons.

Longhorned wrote:Someday you guys are going to have to sit me down and help me understand why these posts continue to have him "run" the point, "be serious" about playing point guard, and regard wings as potential competition for his minutes. He is a point guard. That's why he was a point guard last night. A cheeseburger doesn't want to be a cheeseburger. If a coach were to put him at the 2, he'd have to adapt and play out of position.

People talk about running the point because if you say he's going to mount the point, it sounds odd.

I think some still think of the "pure" pg like TJ as what a pg has to be. The reality is that you can win with a scoring pg. Kemba Walker, Shabazz Napier, Peyton Siva, all of those guys were dynamic scorers who led teams to a natty. Heck, look at our history. Guys like Bibby, Damon, Gardner, etc. could all do it.

Kobi needs to bookend all the talent with the unsexy things like packline D and low to numbers to be that kind of winner, not just a scoring pg.