Bear Down Wildcats

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 8:51 am You're right. We really don't need him. Only way we really do is if Akinjo leaves. And even then, we still wouldn't as we have enough guards.

If Akinjo leaves, then I think the need for Tyty is huge as we will need someone who can create offense. I didn't even consider Akinjo leaving as an option when thinking about Tyty.

I've heard rumblings from a couple people that Akinjo might test nba waters or entertain European offers this off season. On Mike Luke's podcast him and Brogan were saying they believe it's a 50/50 chance he returns. They got insider knowledge as they supply Jason Scheer with quite a bit of his information basketball related

I really don't get the mind set of some Arizona players who leave early or even consider leaving early.

Look around the Pac 12 the last few years and you'll find the most successful and respected players are those that stayed at their school for the duration of their eligibility:

Payton Pritchard
McKinley Wright
Stephen Thompson
Remy Martin
Chris Duarte
Tahj Eaddy

Is it any wonder the schools that are enjoying some success are the ones with experienced upper classmen?

What kind of player did Duarte look like a year ago? He averaged 13/game last season & shot 41% FG, 33% from 3. This year he's averaging 17pts/game, 53% FG & 43% 3 pt. FG%.

Benn Mathurin averaged 10.8 this season -- had a career high 31 at Wazzu. Super inconsistent on both ends of the floor. By his junior season he could legitimately be a 1st or 2nd team AA, be a lockdown defender and easily leading scorer and go-to guy. Unfortunately, Arizona will be lucky to keep him 2 seasons.

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:46 pm

TheCat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 3:27 pm I will quote the great Lute Olson. It isn't whether you are good enough to get drafted, it is if you can get the second contract.

That view went away from this program when Lute Olson left.

That was changing towards the end of the Olson era.

And honestly... it was a change in college basketball as a whole..... doesn't matter who the coaches are the money is so great, these kids are jumping at it (and you can't blame them)

zonagrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:20 am I really don't get the mind set of some Arizona players who leave early or even consider leaving early.

Look around the Pac 12 the last few years and you'll find the most successful and respected players are those that stayed at their school for the duration of their eligibility:

Payton Pritchard
McKinley Wright
Stephen Thompson
Remy Martin
Chris Duarte
Tahj Eaddy

Is it any wonder the schools that are enjoying some success are the ones with experienced upper classmen?

What kind of player did Duarte look like a year ago? He averaged 13/game last season & shot 41% FG, 33% from 3. This year he's averaging 17pts/game, 53% FG & 43% 3 pt. FG%.

Benn Mathurin averaged 10.8 this season -- had a career high 31 at Wazzu. Super inconsistent on both ends of the floor. By his junior season he could legitimately be a 1st or 2nd team AA, be a lockdown defender and easily leading scorer and go-to guy. Unfortunately, Arizona will be lucky to keep him 2 seasons.

Um. Duarte was at 2 different colleges and Eaddy has been at three. I get the point on the upperclassmen, but your initial comment was garbage as I could point to countless players that stayed at their school for the duration of their eligibility and didn’t matter towards shit.

Like Remy Martin? He gained nothing by staying his senior year. It was an unusual year but nothing is guaranteed in life. I generally agree with ZG and think that no one from this year's team should be turning pro though

zonagrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:20 am I really don't get the mind set of some Arizona players who leave early or even consider leaving early.

Look around the Pac 12 the last few years and you'll find the most successful and respected players are those that stayed at their school for the duration of their eligibility:

I think it's fairly straightforward. They're not trying to be respected in the Pac 12, they're trying to maximize their professional future and earnings.

Success in college doesn't have a direct correlation to next level marketability. The NBA uses the G League for development and doesn't need to rely on college development anymore.

Mathurin has physical potential that the guys you listed don't. That matters more to the NBA than years of service in college.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:49 am

zonagrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:20 am I really don't get the mind set of some Arizona players who leave early or even consider leaving early.

Look around the Pac 12 the last few years and you'll find the most successful and respected players are those that stayed at their school for the duration of their eligibility:

I think it's fairly straightforward. They're not trying to be respected in the Pac 12, they're trying to maximize their professional future and earnings.

Success in college doesn't have a direct correlation to next level marketability. The NBA uses the G League for development and doesn't need to rely on college development anymore.

Mathurin has physical potential that the guys you listed don't. That matters more to the NBA than years of service in college.

I get that and agree. But I still think the years of service in college make a huge difference in development that just doesn't seem to happen at the G-League level. Mathurin could be a monster by his junior or senior season -- perhaps a lotto pick if he stays. If he leaves after this year or next -- he won't be drafted all that high and his mental development as well as physical will still need some time to be NBA ready. My personal opinion is that marketability is overrated. If you're "marketable" after one year of college but not "ready" to play at that level for a few years -- the NBA is still going to favor a guy who is ready now -- a guy like Duarte.

I get the mindset of going early and striking while the iron is hot -- but there's always going to be another shiny freshman the following year in the same position who is undeveloped but equally "marketable" even if he isn't that special. Who does most of the "marketing?" The media -- so there will always be someone for the media to hype. I liken it to a steady stock with real earnings potential and steady growth vs. a hot, new commodity that rises quickly and fades just as fast.

G league has better coaching and develops players better. Look at Keldon Johnson for the spurs. Guy was a bust at Kentucky. Played in the G league for one year and is playing so well in the league now he's looking more and more like a future all star. Pro teams have better coaches and facilities. Kids know that and know if they want to develop faster, college isn't the place to do it

zonagrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:05 am I get that and agree. But I still think the years of service in college make a huge difference in development that just doesn't seem to happen at the G-League level. Mathurin could be a monster by his junior or senior season -- perhaps a lotto pick if he stays. If he leaves after this year or next -- he won't be drafted all that high and his mental development as well as physical will still need some time to be NBA ready. My personal opinion is that marketability is overrated. If you're "marketable" after one year of college but not "ready" to play at that level for a few years -- the NBA is still going to favor a guy who is ready now -- a guy like Duarte.

I get the mindset of going early and striking while the iron is hot -- but there's always going to be another shiny freshman the following year in the same position who is undeveloped but equally "marketable" even if he isn't that special. Who does most of the "marketing?" The media -- so there will always be someone for the media to hype. I liken it to a steady stock with real earnings potential and steady growth vs. a hot, new commodity that rises quickly and fades just as fast.

Respectfully, I'm not sure the bolded is the case nowadays. Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga are likely both top 5 picks and top 10 locks, and both spent this year in the G league.

In the 2019-20 season, there were 40 G League callups to the NBA. That # doesn't count two way players, and each team has two of those spots.

Long and short, around 100 G Leaguers get time with an NBA team every year now. Monster prospects are gonna be NBA from day 1, but guys like Kendrick Nunn, Danuel House and Spencer Dinwiddie all spent significant G League time before becoming notable NBA players.

Yup. Look at the whole spurs organization. They legitimately send all their rookies down to the G league now. They've developed quite a few starters and rotational pieces from the G league

Well, my conclusion is that I'm just not as well versed on the NBA's player development regarding the G-League and overstating my opinion.

Something else that caught my eye: Oregon's top three seniors:
Omoruyi 24 years old, Duarte 23 and Figueroa 22. Physically more mature. Mentally strong.

Their final four team of 2017, Dylan Ennis was 24 years old and Boucher was in his sixth year of eligibility.

zonagrad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:50 am Well, my conclusion is that I'm just not as well versed on the NBA's player development regarding the G-League and overstating my opinion.

Something else that caught my eye: Oregon's top three seniors:
Omoruyi 24 years old, Duarte 23 and Figueroa 22. Physically more mature. Mentally strong.

Their final four team of 2017, Dylan Ennis was 24 years old and Boucher was in his sixth year of eligibility.

I totally agree maturity helps a lot in college.

It's toughest to keep players with elite physical tools. Mathurin is a great example of that. He's 6'6 with a plus wingspan, an 8'5 standing reach and plus athleticism. He's also fairly young in that he won't turn 19 for 3 more months.

That's the kind of profile NBA teams will keep tabs on. I lean towards he should return because I think he isn't a 1st rounder, but will play himself into the 1st and a guaranteed deal if he returns.

But if he leaves, an NBA team who drafts him at 18 will totally work with him a few years of a 2 way deal or even possibly give him a guaranteed deal with a G League option. They look at it like 1.5 years of G League and they call up a 20 year old with massive physical potential.

The guys you name, they generally aren't getting that kind of commitment from an NBA team based on their physical attributes.

The problem with the G league is that the NBA organization has all the power. I'm not sure you are seeing guys called up from the G league making the same as lottery picks guarantee for their first contract.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:32 am
Respectfully, I'm not sure the bolded is the case nowadays. Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga are likely both top 5 picks and top 10 locks, and both spent this year in the G league.

And Nix and Todd, the other 5 star recruits who took that same path are probably not going to be drafted. Definitely not in the first round. It is impossible to tell the developmental path of these players at this time but I am interested to see how it goes. As for the top 4 players in this year class, they all made similar money regardless of which way they went (Mobley and Cunnigham via a family member on the staff).

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 3:29 pm

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 10:32 am
Respectfully, I'm not sure the bolded is the case nowadays. Jalen Green and Jonathan Kuminga are likely both top 5 picks and top 10 locks, and both spent this year in the G league.

And Nix and Todd, the other 5 star recruits who took that same path are probably not going to be drafted. Definitely not in the first round. It is impossible to tell the developmental path of these players at this time but I am interested to see how it goes. As for the top 4 players in this year class, they all made similar money regardless of which way they went (Mobley and Cunnigham via a family member on the staff).

Nbadraft.net has both Nix and Todd in the 2nd. It's not weird that happens. Nico and Vernon Carey dropped last year. Heck, guys like Kalil Whitney, Hurt and Dante didn't even enter the draft.

College or G league, the developmental process isn't infallible by any means.

Bought plane tickets to Vegas and booked a room for the tournament. Buying game tickets for the mgm main event this weekend.

Pretty excited!!!

U.P. Zona Fan wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:15 pm Bought plane tickets to Vegas and booked a room for the tournament. Buying game tickets for the mgm main event this weekend.

Pretty excited!!!

Good for you, man. Hope you're doing well.

Irish27 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:03 pm

Not surprising, he had one of the best 4 game stretches in Arizona history. Unfortunately, he lacked consistency on offense and was limited on defense in an expected deep position for the Wildcats. I wish him nothing but the best and think he will have a great finish to his college career.

Irish27 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:03 pm

Can't say I'm surprised. This gets us to the scholarship limit at a minimum.

Bleeping Robbins needs to extend Miller so we can get some finality on things like Eason and Tyty.

Good luck to Baker elsewhere. I feel bad for him, his career just seems star crossed.

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:13 pm

Irish27 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:03 pm

Not surprising, he had one of the best 4 game stretches in Arizona history. Unfortunately, he lacked consistency on offense and was limited on defense in an expected deep position for the Wildcats. I wish him nothing but the best and think he will have a great finish to his college career.

I wish him the best too.

I think it got apparent Kerr Kriisa jumped him because Kerr is a shooter who brings better D. We get Akinjo and Kerr back and I don't think there would have been a path for Baker to start.

Right decision for both parties. Sucks to see him go, as you can tell he loved the university and the team but him leaving makes sense for the team and his personal goals

84Cat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:24 pm

Hard to hate on that with him suffering two serious injuries in college already. I can see why he'd want to max his earning potential after 4 years in college already.

Can't blame him. Lost his starting position and might even be the 2nd guard off the bench.

Not sure how someone who is not a starter can try and make the NBA, but best of luck to him. Hopefully he can stay healthy and make money in Europe.

If we had to lose a guard, I'd rather it be Baker than Akinjo or Mathurin, or even Kriisa for that matter. Those latter three are vital to next year's success.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:42 am And Terrell Brown just entered the transfer portal

Terrell is going to UW. He should be the best player on that team next year, I am not looking forward to playing him but am happy he found a landing spot at a P5 school.

Lord knows UDub needed the help. They were about to be epically terrible.

gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 25, 2021 3:50 pm

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:42 am And Terrell Brown just entered the transfer portal

Terrell is going to UW. He should be the best player on that team next year, I am not looking forward to playing him but am happy he found a landing spot at a P5 school.

Home and it's a showcase for him.

UW needs some talent. Quade is just about their only talent. Brown could start alongside him. Losing Tshonis and Stevenson...they need players.

They're very thin on guys and had more playing time to offer. Good for him for getting to play for his hometown squad and play a large role

Any word on any of the transfers we're interested in?

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:54 am Any word on any of the transfers we're interested in?

I wonder if Robbins is actively sabotaging that process by denying an extension.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:55 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:54 am Any word on any of the transfers we're interested in?

I wonder if Robbins is actively sabotaging that process by denying an extension.

Wouldn't doubt it

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:39 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:55 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:54 am Any word on any of the transfers we're interested in?

I wonder if Robbins is actively sabotaging that process by denying an extension.

Wouldn't doubt it

For clarity, Robbins is clearly sabotaging things. I only question whether that is his intent or just a side effect.

Was reading a little bit ago we reached out to Stanley Umude. He'd be an interesting piece. He's about 6'6" and can shoot from beyond the arch and is a very good scorer. Rebounds well for his size. Scheer said this doesn't mean Benn is leaving, which is good. So I'd assume he'd start at the 2 or come off the bench if we did end up landing Stanley. What's everyone's thoughts towards adding Umude? Edit: I also just read he plans on going through the NBA draft process, and if doesn't like his chances he will then be transferring. But he is likely transferring. Just wants to see where he sits with scouts

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:52 pm Was reading a little bit ago we reached out to Stanley Umude. He'd be an interesting piece. He's about 6'6" and can shoot from beyond the arch and is a very good scorer. Rebounds well for his size. Scheer said this doesn't mean Benn is leaving, which is good. So I'd assume he'd start at the 2 or come off the bench if we did end up landing Stanley. What's everyone's thoughts towards adding Umude?

So, I just looked him up after your post. Very good rebounder for his size. Seems to have a natural looking stroke. His 3 point %...I wish it was higher coming from low major competition. Defensive metrics aren't great.

If we get him, I hope it's part of a Terry, Mathurin, Kriisa, Akinjo rotation where he's the 5th piece. He would be strong in that. I desperately want Eason, so I hope he is not being looked at as a stretch 4 in place of Eason.

Hopefully if he becomes more selective, he can up his shooting % a la Terrell Brown. Just please let us get Eason and keep Terry, Benn, Kerr and Akinjo.

Eason is still the guy I think we need to prioritize. He would do this team the most help. He fills a need we need and his playstyle is something we don't have on this roster. Umude would be a luxury, not a necessity in my opinion. We don't need another scorer, he'd be a nice touch but he's not a necessary piece

Eason is a clear upgrade on defense, Umude does not look like he is but that is just based off numbers. Add in that Eason has 4 years left and that is an easy choice and should be who we concentrate the majority of our efforts on.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 2:06 pm Eason is still the guy I think we need to prioritize. He would do this team the most help. He fills a need we need and his playstyle is something we don't have on this roster. Umude would be a luxury, not a necessity in my opinion. We don't need another scorer, he'd be a nice touch but he's not a necessary piece

Agreed. I think we're ok if we return Terry, Mathurin, Akinjo and Kriisa and add Simpson, Nowell and Dezonie. Maybe it's nice to add an experienced guy to that, but it's not a must, IMO.

Eason would be our best defender Day 1 and someone to guard stretch 4's, which currently we sort of have to rely on Mathurin, Terry or hope Tubelis can keep up.

Eason would change us. Umude would add to what's there, but it's hard to see him as the same sort of difference maker as Eason could be.

I am against bouncing an existing player. You chose them so make them better. If you made a mistake let them know they will have limited playing time but the scholarship stands. It is what's right.

Sounds like we backed off Eason for some off the court issues that came up. Have a buddy that coaches up in Phx and he says we’re in play for Timmy Allen, though Scheer says he doesn’t think Arizona would be an option for him. We shall see.

NickyBCats wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:42 am Sounds like we backed off Eason for some off the court issues that came up. Have a buddy that coaches up in Phx and he says we’re in play for Timmy Allen, though Scheer says he doesn’t think Arizona would be an option for him. We shall see.

That's bad news! I really thought Tari Eason was someone who could be a game changer for our team

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 12:15 pm

NickyBCats wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:42 am Sounds like we backed off Eason for some off the court issues that came up. Have a buddy that coaches up in Phx and he says we’re in play for Timmy Allen, though Scheer says he doesn’t think Arizona would be an option for him. We shall see.

That's bad news! I really thought Tari Eason was someone who could be a game changer for our team

I agree! He’s the guy that usually goes to Oregon and gives us fits. Was really hoping to land him.

Any idea what kind of off the court issues involved? That's interesting as we're also talking to Tyty Washington who has a couple red flags on his resume

Allen has AZ roots and family here.

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:52 pm Was reading a little bit ago we reached out to Stanley Umude. He'd be an interesting piece. He's about 6'6" and can shoot from beyond the arch and is a very good scorer. Rebounds well for his size. Scheer said this doesn't mean Benn is leaving, which is good. So I'd assume he'd start at the 2 or come off the bench if we did end up landing Stanley. What's everyone's thoughts towards adding Umude? Edit: I also just read he plans on going through the NBA draft process, and if doesn't like his chances he will then be transferring. But he is likely transferring. Just wants to see where he sits with scouts

If we land Umude he'd start at the 2 with Benn at the 3. Someone else may beat him to the punch ultimately since he intends to go through the draft process.

With the PAC-12 doing so well in the tournament Arizona's KenPom ranking is up to 28th.

https://kenpom.com/

6 - USC
9 - Colorado
15 - Oregon
16 - UCLA
28 - Arizona
43 - Oregon St
44 - Utah
58 - Stanford
79 - Washing St
87 - Arizona St
116 - California
131 - Washington

Choo would the other guy start as well? Or have we not zeroed in on anyone else just yet?

ChooChooCat wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:12 am

BeardownZonaZona wrote: ↑Fri Mar 26, 2021 1:52 pm Was reading a little bit ago we reached out to Stanley Umude. He'd be an interesting piece. He's about 6'6" and can shoot from beyond the arch and is a very good scorer. Rebounds well for his size. Scheer said this doesn't mean Benn is leaving, which is good. So I'd assume he'd start at the 2 or come off the bench if we did end up landing Stanley. What's everyone's thoughts towards adding Umude? Edit: I also just read he plans on going through the NBA draft process, and if doesn't like his chances he will then be transferring. But he is likely transferring. Just wants to see where he sits with scouts

If we land Umude he'd start at the 2 with Benn at the 3. Someone else may beat him to the punch ultimately since he intends to go through the draft process.

If we're looking for a 2, does this mean only one of Akinjo, Kriisa is back? I'm hoping not, as I'm pretty into Kriisa's potential and Akinjo as a senior.