I guess this is a case where JT can't just trash Robbins, but could decline and then "leak" to sources, like RJ that it's because he loves the UA and therefore hates Robbins. One of those "some people say that JT loves the UA so much he hates Robbins for destroying it and won't work for him" type of communications.
azcat49 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:02 pm
Even though Murph has ties to Lute you have to figure the former players would love to see JT retained
If I’m TLC, I wouldn’t worry too much about the former players. Even the very vocal ones with national platforms.
Instead, if I’m looking at keeping someone from the former staff for continuity’s sake, I’d be looking at who has the most recruits in their personal pipeline and who was involved the most with the current players.
Plus, there’s only one guy in the entire athletic department who was the head coach of a college basketball team at any point in the past. That’s gotta count for something too.
I love Jet, but if it’s a choice between him and Murph, TLC made the right call.
JET has been offered to stay by Lloyd in addition to Murph but is hesitant because he's pissed at Robbins. He has opportunities elsewhere that are solid where Robbins isn't running things but Lloyd definitely wants JET on the staff.
Jet would be smart to take the job. And to request to be in charge of alumni & community outreach for the coaching staff. He needs to vastly expand his network of contacts and advocates if he’s serious about being a college coach.
In 4-5 years, he could parley his experience into a head coaching gig of his own at a place like Seattle U or similar small northwest school. But at the moment he’s got the most connections and opportunity in Tucson and he should take advantage of that.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 10:01 pm
by YoDeFoe
Bigly agree, Chi.
His resume is limited and there’s not a lot of spots open. He could wait it out and check in on the NBA this summer, and he certainly isn’t wanting for dough, but if he’d like to stay in college coaching he should stay on - at least for a year.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:14 am
by HiCat
One-on-one with Tommy Lloyd talking Arizona’s recruiting strategy
Alec White Apr 19, 2021 Updated 5 hrs ago
Gonzaga transfer Oumar Ballo is following Tommy Lloyd to Arizona
15 comments
By Ryan Kelapire@RKelapire Apr 19, 2021, 8:44pm PD
New Arizona head coach Tommy Lloyd is bringing Oumar Ballo with him to Tucson. The Gonzaga transfer announced Monday that he will be joining the Wildcats.
A 7-foot, 260-pound redshirt freshman nicknamed “Baby Shaq”, Ballo appeared in 24 games with the Zags this season after redshirting the year prior. He averaged 2.5 points and 1.5 rebounds in 6.3 minutes while shooting 63 percent from the field and 55 percent from the free throw line.
I have never seen Oumar play. As far as I know, he's a deep developmental project and that's basically what I expect from him.
That said, scale those numbers to 25 minutes a game, and it's 10 points, 6 rebounds in 25 minutes.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:18 am
by Spaceman Spiff
SCCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:04 am
I have never seen Oumar play. As far as I know, he's a deep developmental project and that's basically what I expect from him.
That said, scale those numbers to 25 minutes a game, and it's 10 points, 6 rebounds in 25 minutes.
Scaling is hard with garbage time. For instance Jacob Hazzard would have averaged 20 ppg twice in an Arizona uniform if you scaled him to 25 mpg.
By the way, Jacob Hazzard has the greatest PER line in Arizona history.
Freshman, -29.7 PER (I didn't know PER went to negative numbers).
Soph, 23.9 PER (Solid Allstar level).
Junior, -21.7 PER.
Senior, 28.5 PER (MVP level).
Ballo, his rebounding is average to below average for a 7 footer. His block % is 3.9, which is a bit below average for a 7 footer. Offensively, you can see his rawness in the 24.7 TO%.
I'd have him as a third string guy right now, which is going to mean minimal/nonexistent minutes unless Brown or Koloko leave.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:21 am
by HiCat
SCCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:04 am
I have never seen Oumar play. As far as I know, he's a deep developmental project and that's basically what I expect from him.
That said, scale those numbers to 25 minutes a game, and it's 10 points, 6 rebounds in 25 minutes.
Looks comfortable in the paint.
Oumar Ballo (MALI) - ALL-STAR FIVE Mixtape! - FIBA U19 Basketball World Cup 2019
SCCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:04 am
I have never seen Oumar play. As far as I know, he's a deep developmental project and that's basically what I expect from him.
That said, scale those numbers to 25 minutes a game, and it's 10 points, 6 rebounds in 25 minutes.
Scaling is hard with garbage time.
100% with ya. Never seen him play. Deep developmental project.
SCCats wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:04 am
I have never seen Oumar play. As far as I know, he's a deep developmental project and that's basically what I expect from him.
That said, scale those numbers to 25 minutes a game, and it's 10 points, 6 rebounds in 25 minutes.
Scaling is hard with garbage time.
100% with ya. Never seen him play. Deep developmental project.
I saw a couple minutes of him with Gonzaga. Big body, not super nimble but not a statue. Needs skill development on offense, not much else that stood out from memory.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:40 am
by Beachcat97
In those highlights, I see a ton of potential. Needs to work with a good big man coach. Get his footing and spacing together. He is a giant.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:45 am
by gronk4heisman
Gonzaga was able to play with Sabonis and Karnowski on the court together a lot a few years back. In my memory of Sabonis at Gonzaga, Jordan Brown is at least as nimble so maybe he can play the 4 in Tommy's defense. Obviously, Sabonis has made a hell of an NBA career so far so maybe I am way off base here.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:13 am
by YoDeFoe
gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:45 am
Gonzaga was able to play with Sabonis and Karnowski on the court together a lot a few years back. In my memory of Sabonis at Gonzaga, Jordan Brown is at least as nimble so maybe he can play the 4 in Tommy's defense. Obviously, Sabonis has made a hell of an NBA career so far so maybe I am way off base here.
They played those two together only about 10min/g - but I can see the similarities between Sabonis at Gonzaga and Brown's current abilities. Both similarly efficient on their two point jumpers (~44%) and at the rim (~73%). Sabonis got to the rim more and was the better rebounder... but that might have something to do with playing in the WCC.
For Brown... he really needs to clean up his free-throw shooting - 60% won't cut it.
gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:45 am
Gonzaga was able to play with Sabonis and Karnowski on the court together a lot a few years back. In my memory of Sabonis at Gonzaga, Jordan Brown is at least as nimble so maybe he can play the 4 in Tommy's defense. Obviously, Sabonis has made a hell of an NBA career so far so maybe I am way off base here.
They played those two together only about 10min/g - but I can see the similarities between Sabonis at Gonzaga and Brown's current abilities. Both similarly efficient on their two point jumpers (~44%) and at the rim (~73%). Sabonis got to the rim more and was the better rebounder... but that might have something to do with playing in the WCC.
For Brown... he really needs to clean up his free-throw shooting - 60% won't cut it.
But yeah, maybe Lloyd can make the spacing work.
In my head I am thinking something like this in front court minutes distribution:
Good looking player, but if he pulls one of those flexing celebrations Pac-12 refs are likely to give him the death penalty.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:08 pm
by Longhorned
Chicat wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 10:28 am
8 Centers and 0 Point Guards...
At the Rich Kelley Academy they taught us to fix 2 centers at both the defensive and offensive ends of the court, and one at half court, and not let any of them run. If they're good passers, no traditional squad has an answer.
gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:45 am
Gonzaga was able to play with Sabonis and Karnowski on the court together a lot a few years back. In my memory of Sabonis at Gonzaga, Jordan Brown is at least as nimble so maybe he can play the 4 in Tommy's defense. Obviously, Sabonis has made a hell of an NBA career so far so maybe I am way off base here.
They played those two together only about 10min/g - but I can see the similarities between Sabonis at Gonzaga and Brown's current abilities. Both similarly efficient on their two point jumpers (~44%) and at the rim (~73%). Sabonis got to the rim more and was the better rebounder... but that might have something to do with playing in the WCC.
For Brown... he really needs to clean up his free-throw shooting - 60% won't cut it.
But yeah, maybe Lloyd can make the spacing work.
The biggest difference I see is on D. Sabonis was pretty athletic and a major defensive plus. In his freshman season, where he had about the same minutes per game as JB, he had basically 2x the defensive win shares.
Raw athletically, I'm not sure there's a huge difference, but Sabonis always stood out as a positional defender with good feet. That's the part I have trouble seeing mesh here.
gronk4heisman wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 9:45 am
Gonzaga was able to play with Sabonis and Karnowski on the court together a lot a few years back. In my memory of Sabonis at Gonzaga, Jordan Brown is at least as nimble so maybe he can play the 4 in Tommy's defense. Obviously, Sabonis has made a hell of an NBA career so far so maybe I am way off base here.
They played those two together only about 10min/g - but I can see the similarities between Sabonis at Gonzaga and Brown's current abilities. Both similarly efficient on their two point jumpers (~44%) and at the rim (~73%). Sabonis got to the rim more and was the better rebounder... but that might have something to do with playing in the WCC.
For Brown... he really needs to clean up his free-throw shooting - 60% won't cut it.
But yeah, maybe Lloyd can make the spacing work.
The biggest difference I see is on D. Sabonis was pretty athletic and a major defensive plus. In his freshman season, where he had about the same minutes per game as JB, he had basically 2x the defensive win shares.
Raw athletically, I'm not sure there's a huge difference, but Sabonis always stood out as a positional defender with good feet. That's the part I have trouble seeing mesh here.
Just looking at the individual stats... Brown is the better defender - much better block %, better steal %, Sabonis the better rebounder again but I think that's more to do with the conference (his in conference was sky high, ~30% DRB%, while his block % was still <3%). But I'd have to go back and watch Sabonis play in order to get it right. Defense is a team sport, as they say.
Spaceman Spiff wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:14 pm
The biggest difference I see is on D. Sabonis was pretty athletic and a major defensive plus. In his freshman season, where he had about the same minutes per game as JB, he had basically 2x the defensive win shares.
Raw athletically, I'm not sure there's a huge difference, but Sabonis always stood out as a positional defender with good feet. That's the part I have trouble seeing mesh here.
Just looking at the individual stats... Brown is the better defender - much better block %, better steal %, Sabonis the better rebounder again but I think that's more to do with the conference (his in conference was sky high, ~30% DRB%, while his block % was still <3%). But I'd have to go back and watch Sabonis play in order to get it right. Defense is a team sport, as they say.
So I'll hedge up front by saying this is definitely less than scientific, but that's why I used positional defender when discussing.
A big part of our struggles on D last year were triggered by difficulty rotating and being in position, less so blocks and steals. To me, that's where Sabonis excelled, in that he had quick feet and knew how to use them in rotation, help, etc. He was never a vertical shotblocker, that's very true.
Some of this may be polluted by my memory, but I remember him similarly to Lauri or Zeus, as a guy who wouldn't blow you away with rim prptection, but was always in the right place and used his mobility very effectively.
That's what I felt we lacked with JB, Koloko and really across the board last year. We had the physical skill, but we'd get picked apart in rotations, coverage and stopping the ball.
Edit: I'll fully admit this is my subjective thought to explain the stat differential.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:41 pm
by RondaeShimmy
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:54 pm
by Longhorned
Yeah, Benn.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:57 pm
by azcat49
Don’t think we saw many shots of CSM coaching. Probably to many F bombs to bleep out
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:57 pm
by Beachcat97
Quick simple decisions...seems like high risk, high reward. May take a little while to really create that culture on offense.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Tue Apr 20, 2021 11:25 pm
by EastCoastCat
Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:57 pm
Quick simple decisions...seems like high risk, high reward. May take a little while to really create that culture on offense.
Don’t agree. For anyone that has played basketball at a high level the less thinking you have to do the easier the game is.
It actually won’t take long for his players to acclimate to a more intuitive approach to playing the game.
Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:57 pm
Quick simple decisions...seems like high risk, high reward. May take a little while to really create that culture on offense.
Don’t agree. For anyone that has played basketball at a high level the less thinking you have to do the easier the game is.
It actually won’t take long for his players to acclimate to a more intuitive approach to playing the game.
I don't mean this to be a wet blanket, but that's a variation of things all coaches say.
I'm firmly of the mind that 90% of the things college coaches say and the strategies they use work well. The part that actually separates the successful coaches from not so successful coaches is whether those sayings and concepts are implemented in a way that lands with players.
Put another way, zero college coaches say they want players to stop, think and then react. They all strive to play downhill.
Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:57 pm
Quick simple decisions...seems like high risk, high reward. May take a little while to really create that culture on offense.
Don’t agree. For anyone that has played basketball at a high level the less thinking you have to do the easier the game is.
It actually won’t take long for his players to acclimate to a more intuitive approach to playing the game.
I don't mean this to be a wet blanket, but that's a variation of things all coaches say.
I'm firmly of the mind that 90% of the things college coaches say and the strategies they use work well. The part that actually separates the successful coaches from not so successful coaches is whether those sayings and concepts are implemented in a way that lands with players.
Put another way, zero college coaches say they want players to stop, think and then react. They all strive to play downhill.
That video looks like a fun way to play hoops. Lots of green lighting good shots.
I think it’s safe to say, the Miller set of setting high picks is gone.
Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:57 pm
Quick simple decisions...seems like high risk, high reward. May take a little while to really create that culture on offense.
Don’t agree. For anyone that has played basketball at a high level the less thinking you have to do the easier the game is.
It actually won’t take long for his players to acclimate to a more intuitive approach to playing the game.
I don't mean this to be a wet blanket, but that's a variation of things all coaches say.
I'm firmly of the mind that 90% of the things college coaches say and the strategies they use work well. The part that actually separates the successful coaches from not so successful coaches is whether those sayings and concepts are implemented in a way that lands with players.
Put another way, zero college coaches say they want players to stop, think and then react. They all strive to play downhill.
It's not a stretch to say that the most successful college coaches are the ones that can connect with their players. That's pretty obvious.
But like everything there are exceptions - like the old Princeton teams, that implore a bit more strategy to their execution.
Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 8:57 pm
Quick simple decisions...seems like high risk, high reward. May take a little while to really create that culture on offense.
Don’t agree. For anyone that has played basketball at a high level the less thinking you have to do the easier the game is.
It actually won’t take long for his players to acclimate to a more intuitive approach to playing the game.
I don't mean this to be a wet blanket, but that's a variation of things all coaches say.
I'm firmly of the mind that 90% of the things college coaches say and the strategies they use work well. The part that actually separates the successful coaches from not so successful coaches is whether those sayings and concepts are implemented in a way that lands with players.
Put another way, zero college coaches say they want players to stop, think and then react. They all strive to play downhill.
That video looks like a fun way to play hoops. Lots of green lighting good shots.
I think it’s safe to say, the Miller set of setting high picks is gone.
I always find that interesting because the ball screen is one of the offensive sets in which the player has maximal control and decisionmaking ability. It's literally a base concept where the ball is completely in the hands of the player(s) to make the play.
It always staggered me people thought Miller was constraining people by basing his offense on an action that's like 100% player controlled.
I'm not 100% if you mean the 43 second video looking different, but the only non-drill I saw was a high pick and pop for Tubelis to make a J.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:28 am
by Chicat
From the videos that got posted highlighting Tommy Boy's coaching philosophy, the high ball screen will definitely still be in play. It's how the players utilize the open space on the floor where it will differ from Miller's system.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:46 am
by Spaceman Spiff
Chicat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 9:28 am
From the videos that got posted highlighting Tommy Boy's coaching philosophy, the high ball screen will definitely still be in play. It's how the players utilize the open space on the floor where it will differ from Miller's system.
That's been my thought too. I see a lot of people saying this is going to be very different, but it seems to me like Lloyd's offense is based in a lot of the same basic actions as Miller's.
Execution and implementation obviously changes, but the base of any ball screen centric offense is the player(s) decisionmaking within the screen.
Not that I ding Lloyd for that at all. Most basketball offenses are heavily ball screen based and it's for a reason. Unless you have a guy who can kill it in iso, that's basically how you scheme for dribble penetration, and iso is even more static.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 10:26 am
by 97cats
azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:57 pm
Don’t think we saw many shots of CSM coaching. Probably to many F bombs to bleep out
several reason why, language is one of them, along with access or lack there of.
azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:57 pm
Don’t think we saw many shots of CSM coaching. Probably to many F bombs to bleep out
several reason why, language is one of them, along with access or lack there of.
Sure sounds like you just said Miller was privately berating our players with ugly language, behind locked doors.
Wait, there are coaches that don't use profanity?
I watched Last Chance U: Basketball and it shocked me that ELAC's coach only used hell and I think shit once. I was genuinely unaware it was possible for coaches not to call people motherf***er.
azcat49 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 7:57 pm
Don’t think we saw many shots of CSM coaching. Probably to many F bombs to bleep out
several reason why, language is one of them, along with access or lack there of.
Sure sounds like you just said Miller was privately berating our players with ugly language, behind locked doors.
“Berating” lmao
Have you seen the way these motherfuckers talk when they aren’t fucking playing?
In sports, the f word is like breathing. It's a basic necessity.
“Well, I really don’t think there’s any word in the English language that expresses so many different things as the word ‘fuck' does. You know, you can use surprise. ‘Well I’ll be fucked.’ You can use the word ‘fuck' to indicate anger. ‘Fuck you.’ You can use the word ‘fuck' to indicate dismay. ‘Oh, 'fuck' I just think it probably is the most expressive word our language has.” – Former Indiana University Basketball Coach Robert Montgomery Knight
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:20 am
by Longhorned
Just in sports? In higher ed it's the most common word we use among professors. We don't use it with our students though because they cry like little dicks. Some people think sports is a misplaced entity in college but the truth is the athletes are far more mentally tough than most, and that's actually more important than "skills of critical analysis." Not to stereotype, but but go soft on the middle class students from the burbs. You challenge them once, and nearly half of them wilt like summer weeds and never recover. I doubt that happens in basketball practice.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:23 am
by Olsondogg
Longhorned wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:20 am
Just in sports? In higher ed it's the most common word we use among professors. We don't use it with our students though because they cry like little dicks. Some people think sports is a misplaced entity in college but the truth is the athletes are far more mentally tough than most, and that's actually more important than "skills of critical analysis." Not to stereotype, but but go soft on the middle class students from the burbs. You challenge them once, and nearly half of them wilt like summer weeds and never recover. I doubt that happens in basketball practice.
Fuck is my favorite word, along with the corresponding words which use it.
I also despise anyone who uses “Friggin” or “Frickin”
Those people cannot be trusted. If you wanna curse, then just fuckin do it.
As long as Tommy doesn’t do this, I’m good with him.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:31 am
by Alieberman
I generally assume people are serial killers if they don't swear
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:32 am
by zonagrad
And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:52 am
by Longhorned
zonagrad wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:32 am
And yet Lute never cursed. You can command respect and authority without swearing.
Lute could command respect and authority because 1) he was literally Lute Olson, and 2) people don't swear to command respect and authority. Adia Barnes didn't swear at the end of UCONN to command respect and authority. It's something that has a different set of uses.
Sure sounds like you just said Miller was privately berating our players with ugly language, behind locked doors.
wow sure sounds like you are stretching for something - not uncommon at all for most coaches to have closed practices
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:02 pm
by Spaceman Spiff
Longhorned wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:20 am
Just in sports? In higher ed it's the most common word we use among professors. We don't use it with our students though because they cry like little dicks. Some people think sports is a misplaced entity in college but the truth is the athletes are far more mentally tough than most, and that's actually more important than "skills of critical analysis." Not to stereotype, but but go soft on the middle class students from the burbs. You challenge them once, and nearly half of them wilt like summer weeds and never recover. I doubt that happens in basketball practice.
How the fuck would I know what you educators talk about?
Joking. I know sports and my own profession and the f word is used constantly in both.
Also, can I just note Beachcat's position is blatant racial discrimination? As someone who spent most of his youth as one of the few white guys on every basketball team, there's a certain pronoun that gets used a lot that's off limits to us white people.
So we have to search for other pronouns that don't sound embarassingly corny. I, like many others, settled on motherf***er. When I needed to question whether this (pronoun) was in fact joking, being able to say motherf***er was a real savior as a white guy. Beachcat's ilk want to take that from me.
Re: Tommy Lloyd
Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:16 pm
by Olsondogg
Motherfucker is the perfect noun, adjective and verb all in one.
Pretty sure it’s the reason why the English language was motherfucking invented.
