Bribery Scandal - FBI Probe - Book Richardson Involved

[CalStateTempe]

I think it's insane that people are running with that 150k quote as much as they are. Everyone who has ever been in negotiation with 2 entities always tries to sell them. Even if Arizona didn't offer anything, you think the Miami guy is gonna say that? That's laughable.

Exactly which is why I think vitsles article that links to "Arizona pays 150k" is incredible sensationalistic and disingenuous.

[NYCat]

I think it's insane that people are running with that 150k quote as much as they are. Everyone who has ever been in negotiation with 2 entities always tries to sell them. Even if Arizona didn't offer anything, you think the Miami guy is gonna say that? That's laughable.

Exactly which is why I think vitsles article that links to "Arizona pays 150k" is incredible sensationalistic and disingenuous.

The one that's running around the most is the AZ desert swarm one unfortunately

[97cats]

Pasternak seems like he's too smart to do this type of payments. He'd simply give money instead of taking bribe money for pushing kids to sports agents/financial advisors.

If he did it of course,

the standard practice is to give, not take -- on the take put you, well, right fucking here actually.

and I'd say that's a pretty shitty place to be.

as for the alleged offer of 150k, there is nothing -- and Arizona didn't pay Bowen or Walker, that was Louisville and Miami, remember???

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think it's insane that people are running with that 150k quote as much as they are. Everyone who has ever been in negotiation with 2 entities always tries to sell them. Even if Arizona didn't offer anything, you think the Miami guy is gonna say that? That's laughable.

That's one of the things about all of this. How do you know half of this isn't just coaches lying to these people to get money.

Miami wants money, so they say Arizona is offering 150k. Is Arizona actually doing that? Same with Book. Like I posted earlier, who knows if that 15k figure isn't just Book trying to make some side cash for himself?

This entire exercise is off the books.

[CatFanOneMil]

IIRC correctly it seems odd to me that there was a rumor that Ace of PGUflame had his computer confisticated by the FBI for some kind of tax evasion shit...sometime back in Feb. of last year....wouldn't it be ironic that the worst internet persona actually contributed to saving UA basketball by handing over Book from vegas hard drives? Maybe not directly, but you know..."Who's the guy in the photo, what do we know about him?"

Since we're all speculating and whatnot...I can dream that even from prison there was redemption...sort of Shawshank in reverse...

[Chicat]

LOL at this Russ Smith character litigating based on hearsay, conjecture, and a funny feeling he has in his testicles.

[UAdevil]

Russ has always had a hard on for ripping UA bball. Pretty much expected his novellas when Iapproved his account. Just don't get him started on his 2nd favorite thing to bitch about...delta smelt. Lol.

[LBdCactus]

I think it's insane that people are running with that 150k quote as much as they are. Everyone who has ever been in negotiation with 2 entities always tries to sell them. Even if Arizona didn't offer anything, you think the Miami guy is gonna say that? That's laughable.

That's one of the things about all of this. How do you know half of this isn't just coaches lying to these people to get money.

Miami wants money, so they say Arizona is offering 150k. Is Arizona actually doing that? Same with Book. Like I posted earlier, who knows if that 15k figure isn't just Book trying to make some side cash for himself?

This entire exercise is off the books.

This is what I was trying to say last night. The alleged "bid" for Little could just be a negotiating ploy to get more $. Or it could be legit. Who knows. The FBI doesn't (yet), or else that too would be part of these charges. But they aren't (yet).

[Hank of sb]

Any thoughts on what charges they'll be brought up on? You see what Book was charged with? What circumstances are you envisioning here?

You are literally the only person I've seen accusing players, and family & friends of those players, of federal crimes that would precipitate them telling the FBI about other federal crimes. Tax evasion across the board?

If one of the assistants, or one of the Shoe Company people charged with one of the crimes involving fraud by causing an ineligible player to receive a scholarship implicates another assistant or head coach in that payment, I believe they would be equally subject to being charged.

I expect Pitino will be charged with either fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud.

I believe that that is precisely how continuing criminal investigations proceed, and the reason the FBI suggested that parties contact them before waiting to be contacted ("We have your playbook....")

I have yet to see any commentators who are not expecting the ongoing investigation to yield many more charges.

I may be mistaken that the players or their representatives who solicited or accepted payments are subject to criminal prosecution, but I fully expect that the FBI will attempt to interview them. I suspect that tax evasion would be a separate matter addressed by the IRS; that would be avoided by declaring the income, which declaration/documentation would then be available as evidence in the FBI prosecutions.

Do you see any of this differently?

So broadly speaking, there is an ensnarement issue with Arizona....no matter how "innocent" Sean Miller might be/actually is....he, literally, could be the ultimate victim?

Am I reading this right?

[ZONACAT]

Can’t wait to read these sane posters posts tomorrow night...

So.......

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think it's insane that people are running with that 150k quote as much as they are. Everyone who has ever been in negotiation with 2 entities always tries to sell them. Even if Arizona didn't offer anything, you think the Miami guy is gonna say that? That's laughable.

That's one of the things about all of this. How do you know half of this isn't just coaches lying to these people to get money.

Miami wants money, so they say Arizona is offering 150k. Is Arizona actually doing that? Same with Book. Like I posted earlier, who knows if that 15k figure isn't just Book trying to make some side cash for himself?

This entire exercise is off the books.

This is what I was trying to say last night. The alleged "bid" for Little could just be a negotiating ploy to get more $. Or it could be legit. Who knows. The FBI doesn't (yet), or else that too would be part of these charges. But they aren't (yet).

Yeah, so much of this is a giant "who knows?" It's not like this whole thing revolves around the most trustwotthy group of people.

[NYCat]

There better not be a ledger/black book out there somewhere. Or on a computer

[CalStateTempe]

We just need killervibe to chime in and this thread is complete.

Maybe this brings officer Craig out of the woodwork.

[Beachcat97]

LOL at this Russ Smith character litigating based on hearsay, conjecture, and a funny feeling he has in his testicles.

And he's doing it with impressive prolixity. Those sentences just go on and on and on...

Not sure what he's trying to achieve.

Aside from the Nike thing, quiet day on the scandal.

[Russ Smith]

Pasternak strikes me as a guy not likely to get involved for the same reasons you or I wouldn't, Russ. It could be the last thing Pasternak did before leaving Arizona for UCSB is tell Sean Miller to watch out...Book may already have gone off the deep end.

As for what was said, the best way to get away from criminal behavior is to say "Let me think about it, sounds pretty interesting." Then run run run.

But we will find out...I hope soon.

I guess that's possible but doesn't seem likely. To me if I want to avoid it I just don't ever take the meeting or phone calls in the first place.I certainly don't tell the guy I'm interested, I just say no thanks.

If you read the Bland complaint for example he indicates in this that it isn't the first time he's been approached and offered money but this time the deal is so "clean" he feels comfortable accepting it. So even a coach who eventually took the bribe, Bland, was able to just outright say no before. And that's on tape it's before he knew the FBI knew so he wasn't just saying that to make himself look good, he was saying that not knowing anybody else was listening.

I fully expect this to hit a bunch of schools, I won't be at all surprised if UCLA gets implicated too. I just find it amusing people want to bend over backwards to avoid admitting that its' quite clear Sood said Pasternak was in agreement he just wanted to wait until after the tourney.

That's what fans do, USC fans are doing the same thing on USChoops including arguing the FBI overstepped their legal rights. one guy yesterday said he believes the case against Bland will be completely dropped, meanwhile he's already been arraigned, posted bail, and reportedly is now fully cooperating with the FBI, if his case is dropped it's because he talked not because they have no case. I've seen the same thing on UCLA boards before and if stuff comes out on us I'm sure I'll see it again. I still remember all the BRO defending of howland not kicking jerime Anderson off the team for stealing a laptop because of the technicality they pled it down. I said it then, the only reason he's still on the team is Howland is thin at guard, that should not matter he's a senior, he's supposed to know better, he should be off the team. I was one of VERY few people on BRO who said that.

[TJATUA]

Pasternak seems like he's too smart to do this type of payments. He'd simply give money instead of taking bribe money for pushing kids to sports agents/financial advisors.

If he did it of course,

the standard practice is to give, not take -- on the take put you, well, right fucking here actually.

and I'd say that's a pretty shitty place to be.

as for the alleged offer of 150k, there is nothing -- and Arizona didn't pay Bowen or Walker, that was Louisville and Miami, remember???

If Miller was tipped off by the FBI well before Tuesday and he let Book hang himself, wouldn't it have been more beneficial to the program to fire Book on the spot?

[97cats]

This is what I was trying to say last night. The alleged "bid" for Little could just be a negotiating ploy to get more $. Or it could be legit. Who knows. The FBI doesn't (yet), or else that too would be part of these charges. But they aren't (yet).

I repeat, Arizona didn't pay Bowen or Walker or Little.

[pc in NM]

Any thoughts on what charges they'll be brought up on? You see what Book was charged with? What circumstances are you envisioning here?

You are literally the only person I've seen accusing players, and family & friends of those players, of federal crimes that would precipitate them telling the FBI about other federal crimes. Tax evasion across the board?

If one of the assistants, or one of the Shoe Company people charged with one of the crimes involving fraud by causing an ineligible player to receive a scholarship implicates another assistant or head coach in that payment, I believe they would be equally subject to being charged.

I expect Pitino will be charged with either fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud.

I believe that that is precisely how continuing criminal investigations proceed, and the reason the FBI suggested that parties contact them before waiting to be contacted ("We have your playbook....")

I have yet to see any commentators who are not expecting the ongoing investigation to yield many more charges.

I may be mistaken that the players or their representatives who solicited or accepted payments are subject to criminal prosecution, but I fully expect that the FBI will attempt to interview them. I suspect that tax evasion would be a separate matter addressed by the IRS; that would be avoided by declaring the income, which declaration/documentation would then be available as evidence in the FBI prosecutions.

Do you see any of this differently?

So broadly speaking, there is an ensnarement issue with Arizona....no matter how "innocent" Sean Miller might be/actually is....he, literally, could be the ultimate victim?

Am I reading this right?

Those are neither my words nor my thoughts.

Because of Book, he could conceivably have employment or NCAA consequences, even if not directly implicated. None of that is my subject here.

However, I believe legal charges would require evidence. Probably more than just Book's testimony - some corroboration would be required I believe before charges. Of course, if h÷ were guilty (note the subjunctive tense, please), he could "self-disclose"

[97cats]

If Miller was tipped off by the FBI well before Tuesday and he let Book hang himself, wouldn't it have been more beneficial to the program to fire Book on the spot?

maybe, but at that point it was already in the hands of the FBI and who knows what the dialogue was there and/or what the FEDS wanted -- I cant give feedback with any certainty on that other than Arizona didn't pay Bowen, Walker or Little.

not

one

cent

[Russ Smith]

Pasternak seems like he's too smart to do this type of payments. He'd simply give money instead of taking bribe money for pushing kids to sports agents/financial advisors.

If he did it of course,

He didn't because UCSB hired him a few weeks later and since UCSB doesn't have any players anybody would want to steer to an agent or adviser, he was no longer of interest.

[Hank of sb]

Pasternak strikes me as a guy not likely to get involved for the same reasons you or I wouldn't, Russ. It could be the last thing Pasternak did before leaving Arizona for UCSB is tell Sean Miller to watch out...Book may already have gone off the deep end.

As for what was said, the best way to get away from criminal behavior is to say "Let me think about it, sounds pretty interesting." Then run run run.

But we will find out...I hope soon.

I guess that's possible but doesn't seem likely. To me if I want to avoid it I just don't ever take the meeting or phone calls in the first place.I certainly don't tell the guy I'm interested, I just say no thanks.

If you read the Bland complaint for example he indicates in this that it isn't the first time he's been approached and offered money but this time the deal is so "clean" he feels comfortable accepting it. So even a coach who eventually took the bribe, Bland, was able to just outright say no before. And that's on tape it's before he knew the FBI knew so he wasn't just saying that to make himself look good, he was saying that not knowing anybody else was listening.

I fully expect this to hit a bunch of schools, I won't be at all surprised if UCLA gets implicated too. I just find it amusing people want to bend over backwards to avoid admitting that its' quite clear Sood said Pasternak was in agreement he just wanted to wait until after the tourney.

That's what fans do, USC fans are doing the same thing on USChoops including arguing the FBI overstepped their legal rights. one guy yesterday said he believes the case against Bland will be completely dropped, meanwhile he's already been arraigned, posted bail, and reportedly is now fully cooperating with the FBI, if his case is dropped it's because he talked not because they have no case. I've seen the same thing on UCLA boards before and if stuff comes out on us I'm sure I'll see it again. I still remember all the BRO defending of howland not kicking jerime Anderson off the team for stealing a laptop because of the technicality they pled it down. I said it then, the only reason he's still on the team is Howland is thin at guard, that should not matter he's a senior, he's supposed to know better, he should be off the team. I was one of VERY few people on BRO who said that.

Got to remember Pasternak was with Book for a reason, they were co-workers. Book has always been nothing more than a friendly, stupid dog bought for the kids from the pound, for free no less. Pasternak now has a 5-year contract for 3.5 MM.

Do the math, Russ.

There may be a big Arizona thing here--I admit that (I don't know)--it's just not Pasternak where I'd do my digging.

[97cats]

He didn't because UCSB hired him a few weeks later and since UCSB doesn't have any players anybody would want to steer to an agent or adviser, he was no longer of interest.

what a reach

look at you assuming what another person is doing or decisions they made based off your own opinion

hey, ill be the first to admit that Arizona is in some hot fucking water, but lets talk about why, not why YOU think why???

[NYCat]

This is what I was trying to say last night. The alleged "bid" for Little could just be a negotiating ploy to get more $. Or it could be legit. Who knows. The FBI doesn't (yet), or else that too would be part of these charges. But they aren't (yet).

I repeat, Arizona didn't pay Bowen or Walker or Little.

If Miller was tipped off by the FBI well before Tuesday and he let Book hang himself, wouldn't it have been more beneficial to the program to fire Book on the spot?

maybe, but at that point it was already in the hands of the FBI and who knows what the dialogue was there and/or what the FEDS wanted -- I cant give feedback with any certainty on that other than Arizona didn't pay Bowen, Walker or Little.

not

one

cent

But did they OFFER to pay them IF they committed and played at Arizona?

[LBdCactus]

[quote="LBdCactus"

This is what I was trying to say last night. The alleged "bid" for Little could just be a negotiating ploy to get more $. Or it could be legit. Who knows. The FBI doesn't (yet), or else that too would be part of these charges. But they aren't (yet).

I repeat, Arizona didn't pay Bowen or Walker or Little.[/quote]

Well that is true, no doubt about it.

But did Nike, some financial advisor, or an agent?

As a side note... IF say in this case, Nike, did give Little's family money and that was in some way set up by someone on Miller's staff, but no one pocketed money other than the family, would the FBI care? Would just be an NCAA issue then. Or is it conspiracy?

[Spaceman Spiff]

He didn't because UCSB hired him a few weeks later and since UCSB doesn't have any players anybody would want to steer to an agent or adviser, he was no longer of interest.

what a reach

look at you assuming what another person is doing or decisions they made based off your own opinion

hey, ill be the first to admit that Arizona is in some hot fucking water, but lets talk about why, not why YOU think why???

Ignore him. He has a massive interest in saying Pasternak had to be up to no good for some reason, and abandons all logic in favor of pimping his ability to see the future and know exactly what Pasternak's true intention was.

And for the love of Pete, don't try to engage him in factual discussion. You get a vomiting of the same 3 quotes, then what he thinks they mean was truly going on or was going to happen in the future. I don't see why dude doesn't get banned.

[97cats]

But did they offer to pay then IF they committed and played at Arizona?

you seem reasonable, if they did, and there was hard evidence of that, wouldn't the FEDS have used that already?

point, there generally isn't a paper trail until money changes hands. most of the time if not almost always that stuff is never traceable, until its PAID.

sure, something may come out to the contrary on Little perhaps but with regards to Bowen and Walker Arizona backed away, as ive mentioned many times before in this very thread.

[Spaceman Spiff]

[quote="LBdCactus"

This is what I was trying to say last night. The alleged "bid" for Little could just be a negotiating ploy to get more $. Or it could be legit. Who knows. The FBI doesn't (yet), or else that too would be part of these charges. But they aren't (yet).

I repeat, Arizona didn't pay Bowen or Walker or Little.

Well that is true, no doubt about it.

But did Nike, some financial advisor, or an agent?

As a side note... IF say in this case, Nike, did give Little's family money and that was in some way set up by someone on Miller's staff, but no one pocketed money other than the family, would the FBI care? Would just be an NCAA issue then. Or is it conspiracy?[/quote]

Has anyone ever been charged with a crime for paying a player? That's always an NCAA issue, but people who have straight out paid kids...ever charged with anything?

I ask half-rhetorically, half-seriously bc I haven't ever heard of that, even in the most blatant payoff cases.

[TJATUA]

If Miller was tipped off by the FBI well before Tuesday and he let Book hang himself, wouldn't it have been more beneficial to the program to fire Book on the spot?

maybe, but at that point it was already in the hands of the FBI and who knows what the dialogue was there and/or what the FEDS wanted -- I cant give feedback with any certainty on that other than Arizona didn't pay Bowen, Walker or Little.

not

one

cent

First, thank you very much, 97, for being so transparent. I know this must be tough for you and I'm not sure if what you're divulging compromises your relationship with your connections, but nevertheless, I appreciate all of the information.

Second, do you think that UofA could get slammed for what seemingly looks like the INTENT to pay a player?

[97cats]

Well that is true, no doubt about it.

But did Nike, some financial advisor, or an agent?

As a side note... IF say in this case, Nike, did give Little's family money and that was in some way set up by someone on Miller's staff, but no one pocketed money other than the family, would the FBI care? Would just be an NCAA issue then. Or is it conspiracy?

Arizona or any of its tenticles did not pay one cent to Bowen or Walker, otherwise they would be committed to AZ not Louisville and Miami.

as for Little, I don't think anything exchanged hands, and therefore its not traceable, unless of course there is some evidence I haven't seen or heard, which is entirely possible.

I will say it again, there is a reason AZ backed off both Bowen and Walker, you guys all know why.

[Olsondogg]

Got a text saying local PHX sportscaster saying miller doesn’t last the weekend

This guy:

[Hank of sb]

Any thoughts on what charges they'll be brought up on? You see what Book was charged with? What circumstances are you envisioning here?

You are literally the only person I've seen accusing players, and family & friends of those players, of federal crimes that would precipitate them telling the FBI about other federal crimes. Tax evasion across the board?

If one of the assistants, or one of the Shoe Company people charged with one of the crimes involving fraud by causing an ineligible player to receive a scholarship implicates another assistant or head coach in that payment, I believe they would be equally subject to being charged.

I expect Pitino will be charged with either fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud.

I believe that that is precisely how continuing criminal investigations proceed, and the reason the FBI suggested that parties contact them before waiting to be contacted ("We have your playbook....")

I have yet to see any commentators who are not expecting the ongoing investigation to yield many more charges.

I may be mistaken that the players or their representatives who solicited or accepted payments are subject to criminal prosecution, but I fully expect that the FBI will attempt to interview them. I suspect that tax evasion would be a separate matter addressed by the IRS; that would be avoided by declaring the income, which declaration/documentation would then be available as evidence in the FBI prosecutions.

Do you see any of this differently?

So broadly speaking, there is an ensnarement issue with Arizona....no matter how "innocent" Sean Miller might be/actually is....he, literally, could be the ultimate victim?

Am I reading this right?

Those are neither my words nor my thoughts.

Because of Book, he could conceivably have employment or NCAA consequences, even if not directly implicated. None of that is my subject here.

However, I believe legal charges would require evidence. Probably more than just Book's testimony - some corroboration would be required I believe before charges. Of course, if h÷ were guilty (note the subjunctive tense, please), he could "self-disclose"

Yes, I knew my words were not yours. Nor did I mean to suggest they were (excepting the title of this thread which seemed to leave open the angle). I read your post above and was impressed and, hence, MY words popped into print.

Your thought/post seemed apropos to Arizona's issues.

Perhaps corroboration is the key. Good thought.

[LBdCactus]

Got a text saying local PHX sportscaster saying miller doesn’t last the weekend

whatevs.
Is his source Dukie V?

[TJATUA]

Got a text saying local PHX sportscaster saying miller doesn’t last the weekend

Is that Jude La Cava? He said something along the lines of "we'll know something w/in 24-48 hours."

BTW---there was practice today and Miller was in attendance, so if Miller is being let go, it's news to him.

[97cats]

First, thank you very much, 97, for being so transparent. I know this must be tough for you and I'm not sure if what you're divulging compromises your relationship with your connections, but nevertheless, I appreciate all of the information.

youre welcome and no, everything is blown up like a bad fucking fart -- nobody gives one flying fuck what I'm sayin here or even cares to pay attention.

Second, do you think that UofA could get slammed for what seemingly looks like the INTENT to pay a player?

I think AZ is gonna get hit by the NCAA no question, but its going to be for shit they did in the past or shit Sean Miller didn't do, not for what allegedly happened that didn't even happen.

and I will say, maybe the FEDS have more or squeeze info from the interviews, there is so much left to be discovered, IMO.

[TJATUA]

Got a text saying local PHX sportscaster saying miller doesn’t last the weekend

This guy:

Cameron Cox is an ASU homer and a broadcaster. I highly doubt he has any knowledge of what's going on in Tucson.

[Olsondogg]

I’m not saying he’s factual. I honestly have no idea who he is. But the people here in PHX are begging

[Spaceman Spiff]

But did they offer to pay then IF they committed and played at Arizona?

you seem reasonable, if they did, and there was hard evidence of that, wouldn't the FEDS have used that already?

point, there generally isn't a paper trail until money changes hands. most of the time if not almost always that stuff is never traceable, until its PAID.

sure, something may come out to the contrary on Little perhaps but with regards to Bowen and Walker Arizona backed away, as ive mentioned many times before in this very thread.

This cuts to a question I was interested in. Book said he needed 15k to finish the recruitment of Quinerly and it was implied he'd previously given money to Quinerly. Why would he (or anyone) lay in the vast majority of the money pre-commit?

It just sounds wrong that if most players are getting 150ish that Book would do 135k pre-commit then beg the extra 15k from a relative stranger. Or why it would be that amount that put it over the top at all. Just odd to me.

[97cats]

This cuts to a question I was interested in. Book said he needed 15k to finish the recruitment of Quinerly and it was implied he'd previously given money to Quinerly. Why would he (or anyone) lay in the vast majority of the money pre-commit?

It just sounds wrong that if most players are getting 150ish that Book would do 135k pre-commit then beg the extra 15k from a relative stranger. Or why it would be that amount that put it over the top at all. Just odd to me.

what was Quin ranked by Rivals and Scout??

exact ranking

[TucsonClip]

Someone else said it clearly states they didn't get paid, what it says is Sood told them both coaches were "interested in definitely working with us but want to wait until after the tournament before engaging with Sood and CW1. So yeah they absolutely have Sood on tape saying both Book and Pasternak indicated they were willing to take bribes, they just wanted to wait until after the tournament is over. If you want to quibble that Pasternak wasn't involved because he may have left before he actually got paid, ok, but he clearly INTENDED to take the bribe.

First, who the F sent Russ Smith a link here? perma-ban ASAP.

Second, here is the exact quote, since you like to post with less than 100% accuracy when citing quotes from the article:

Sood told an FBI witness on March 14 that "the (Arizona) coaches are interested in definitely working with us."

"As of now, the coaches haven't asked for anything," he told the witness, "but I'm sure when the time comes, they will, right?"

So you know more than Sood did in the report?

[TJATUA]

First, thank you very much, 97, for being so transparent. I know this must be tough for you and I'm not sure if what you're divulging compromises your relationship with your connections, but nevertheless, I appreciate all of the information.

youre welcome and no, everything is blown up like a bad fucking fart

I dont know. I've let out some farts that not only felt therapeutic, but had the fresh scent of freshly baked cinnamon rolls. We still have a chance.

[NYCat]

Arizona or any of its tenticles did not pay one cent to Bowen or Walker, otherwise they would be committed to AZ not Louisville and Miami.

as for Little, I don't think anything exchanged hands, and therefore its not traceable, unless of course there is some evidence I haven't seen or heard, which is entirely possible.

I will say it again, there is a reason AZ backed off both Bowen and Walker, you guys all know why.

you seem reasonable, if they did, and there was hard evidence of that, wouldn't the FEDS have used that already?

point, there generally isn't a paper trail until money changes hands. most of the time if not almost always that stuff is never traceable, until its PAID.

sure, something may come out to the contrary on Little perhaps but with regards to Bowen and Walker Arizona backed away, as ive mentioned many times before in this very thread.

The bolded was my point, of course Arizona didn't pay them because otherwise we would've landed them. Guess I already know about the offer part, if Arizona wanted them the offer would've been there.

Thanks for the clear non vague answers.

[Spaceman Spiff]

This cuts to a question I was interested in. Book said he needed 15k to finish the recruitment of Quinerly and it was implied he'd previously given money to Quinerly. Why would he (or anyone) lay in the vast majority of the money pre-commit?

It just sounds wrong that if most players are getting 150ish that Book would do 135k pre-commit then beg the extra 15k from a relative stranger. Or why it would be that amount that put it over the top at all. Just odd to me.

what was Quin ranked by Rivals and Scout??

exact ranking

#22 on both. Not that I'm knowledgeable on the salary scale, but close enough to top 20 that I assumed 15k would be a quarter, max of any monetary total.

[97cats]

#22 on both. Not that I'm knowledgeable on the salary scale, but close enough to top 20 that I assumed 15k would be a quarter, max of any monetary total.

not 150k prospect -- that's only for the top five star guys

[ChooChooCat]

Pasternak seems like he's too smart to do this type of payments. He'd simply give money instead of taking bribe money for pushing kids to sports agents/financial advisors.

If he did it of course,

Quite frankly Pasternack is too much of a paranoid pussy to go in on this deal and I'm EXTREMELY confident in saying that. He'd possibly listen, but that's as far as it'd go.

[NYCat]

This cuts to a question I was interested in. Book said he needed 15k to finish the recruitment of Quinerly and it was implied he'd previously given money to Quinerly. Why would he (or anyone) lay in the vast majority of the money pre-commit?

It just sounds wrong that if most players are getting 150ish that Book would do 135k pre-commit then beg the extra 15k from a relative stranger. Or why it would be that amount that put it over the top at all. Just odd to me.

what was Quin ranked by Rivals and Scout??

exact ranking

Scout: 22
Rivals' 22
ESPN: 23
247: 14
Composite: 19

I guess he missed the cut off point

But how does one fiddy go down to only 15k for top 25 player, why not 75 or 80 or 60 or 40 or something that's not as low as 15

Bowen was 20-15 ish and got 100

[TJATUA]

[EVCat]

1) It sounds as though just about everyone's close enough to the situation knew that this was going on and on a massive scale... and when you know all the details (and have for a while) things should appear obvious to everyone - which isn't necessarily the case.

2) I think there is another group that think the whole world is corrupt and that everybody cuts corners/ makes agreements they never intend to fulfill / etc. They think this way because they probably do, and they justify their own behavior. Accordingly, anyone who does not is naive/ weak/ an idiot.

Thinking back to college... guys who did blow (there were a LOT) assumed EVERYBODY (except for born-gains & virgins) did it.

3) Then you have the folks who know that SOME shady shit goes on everywhere, but they don't roll that way - and generally don't associate with people who do. They are not blind, but they are naive to some degree - because they do not see the shit that Group #2 does because they are not involved in it (or associated with those that do). And it makes sense that big time college athletics may be even worse than the norm.

Back to college - if you didn't do Coke, you probably did not hang around a lot of people that did - and had NO idea how prevalent it was.

4. The group that is shocked anything like this ever happens... and probably do believe in Santa Claus.

There are degrees to all of that, too. For instance...i am someone who generally believes in the good in people. I am optimistic that most people, when faced with hurting someone, will chose another path. But I am also someone who thinks it is a little ridiculous to be shocked this happens, with all the involvement by corporations who are spending well beyond donation dollars on this whole youth basketball world as a means of doing business, with a goal in mind (these kids to endorse them when pro) and with donors giving millions of dollars to the old U. The donors want to win, know other programs are greasing wheels, and they have expendable income too, and damn UCLA has bigger donors, so we have to try harder.

Adults have always ruined youth sports. I mean, in little league, there was always one parent who found a way to stack his or her team. Why? Just to win. If you spend time around club sports, there are always clubs that will falsify documents or go outside league rules to win. And that's suburban girls soccer u10.

Why would Nike and Adidas spend all this money on AAU tournaments? For the kids? Ok...i suppose that can be believed. But why are they paying college coaches up to $2MM a year? Exposure? But they could get that for fire to some extent. But ok...but still, that has to worry you. So why does Adidas pay Compton Magic to travel and have too coaching salaries and to give shit away to kids? When you hear a TJ Leaf referret to as "an Adidas kid"...what does that mean to you?

I think most everyone who follows the sport knows the shoe companies get their teeth into kids to get them to be loyal to their brand. Why? So when they become famous, they will endorse the product. Adidas isn't paying big scratch to fund average players on a club in Pocatello, ID. So we all know that somewhere deep inside...heck, it is talked about on these boards all the time.

So maybe the casual fan can be unaware. But people who have more than 50 posts here know about the camps and AAU and a "Nike Kid" and what that means, and who Oakland Soldiers are, and that these kids play for a shoe company and AAU is more important that high school ball, even if you only casually watch.

So when it is revealed that these companies pay weaker coaches and hangers ons to push a player to a n agent who will be friendly to that company, or that donors and show companies team up to pay kids to go to certain schools, it might come as a surprise that is is so sophisticated and in depth...and that is true probably across the board, as I am sure nearly every jaw hit the ground after reading 97Cats post...it seems somewhat disingenuous for prople with time in on a message board to be shocked to find out it does happen. The seeds of corruption are planted everywhere. There are profit motives at every turn. The people who run the AAU teams are not particularly worried about hiding how they treat kids like meat. There is all this opportunity for people to cheat to: win or make money. The two reasons people cheat. Small revenue sports cheat. Big revenue sports cheat. This one just has the most fertile system to do so, and the best blend of access, money, and opportunity of any of them. Not even football has the kind of access to cheat that hoops has. One player can change a program. Two players can take a team from worst to competing for first. It is so easy. And the people running the development of these kids aren't schools. They are corporations who want something in return.
What can go wrong?

So when I speak of Polyannas, i am not talking about people who are shocked at how deep it goes. I am talking about those who act like this sport was pure ans/or we somehow were at the top of the game without being like "them" to some extent. And that kids coming to school for one year might not have their hand out when they know they can change a whole program...if someone is offering to pay top players, then everyone has to. Or only the teams that pay eill have them. But it isn't like the coaches are involved in this. This goes on whether Miller is here or Lute or whomever is next. The boosters and the handlers and corporations decide whether this happens.

One sure way to get it to slow doen is to hire a crap coach and lose all the timr. But if we don't do that, our people will do this no matter the coach. Miller didn't come and set this system up. It operates outside of him...to keep him clean.

[97cats]

Quite frankly Pasternack is too much of a paranoid pussy to go in on this deal and I'm EXTREMELY confident in saying that. He'd possibly listen, but that's as far as it'd go.

further, he doesn't need and/or want an annuity -- its not about the extra money for Joe, hes got his from far, far more reaching places than his salary as an assistant and/or a coach and certainly isn't on the take to get his, he has no need.

[97cats]

Scout: 22
Rivals' 22
ESPN: 23
247: 14
Composite: 19

I guess he missed the cut off point

But how does one fiddy go down to only 15k for top 25 player, why not 75 or 80 or 60 or 40 or something that's not as low as 15

you never know, that coulda been the initial rub with the promise of more or other schools weren't stepping up, I don't know.

but the large amounts are only for the top most sought after guys, and its not entirely based on the rankings, its a BUYERS market.

[Olsondogg]

So basically we got really fucked on Josiah Turner.

Yeah I brought him up. Still my favorite all time thread.