2016-2017 Arizona Basketball

[Olsondogg]

an OT loss where you lead most of the game is in no way equatable to a 27 point loss where you're embarrassed from opening tip to final buzzer.

You have no idea which loss means more, or will linger with a team longer. Keep on being embarrassed about it though.

[prh]

an OT loss where you lead most of the game is in no way equatable to a 27 point loss where you're embarrassed from opening tip to final buzzer.

Did you watch that game? That's a very gentle assessment of what happened. WVU is feeling worse about that than we did following Oregon.

[PHXCATS]

27 points is just impossible to overlook

Give me a fucking break. It was a loss, nothing more nor less. Did you see WVU lose at KU yesterday? Would you have preferred that?

Get over it, the team has.

Sure didn't look like it this weekend.

[Olsondogg]

27 points is just impossible to overlook

Give me a fucking break. It was a loss, nothing more nor less. Did you see WVU lose at KU yesterday? Would you have preferred that?

Get over it, the team has.

Sure didn't look like it this weekend.

Yeah, I hate winning.

[PHXCATS]

27 points is just impossible to overlook

Give me a fucking break. It was a loss, nothing more nor less. Did you see WVU lose at KU yesterday? Would you have preferred that?

Get over it, the team has.

Sure didn't look like it this weekend.

Yeah, I hate winning.

I love winning but hate not playing to potential and talent, playing down to the competition, looking like crap 6 games in a row,not covering the spread, and asu.

You are acting like we are the Patriots. Let's hope everyone figures it out but after six games looking awful I Am worried about it not happening.

[Olsondogg]

27 points is just impossible to overlook

Give me a fucking break. It was a loss, nothing more nor less. Did you see WVU lose at KU yesterday? Would you have preferred that?

Get over it, the team has.

Sure didn't look like it this weekend.

Yeah, I hate winning.

I love winning but hate not playing to potential and talent, playing down to the competition, looking like crap 6 games in a row,not covering the spread, and asu.

You are acting like we are the Patriots. Let's hope everyone figures it out but after six games looking awful I Am worried about it not happening.

23-3. 12-1 and in 1st place in PAC. Ranked in top 5. 17-1 in the last 18 games, with only loss coming on the road to a top 5-10 team.

But people bitch and whine because of how the games "look" or covering a fucking spread.

Unreal.

[EVCat]

I tend to fall closer to you, ODogg, than most of the fans who go straight negative.

But if you aren't concerned about how we have been playing and think record is the only indicator of future performance, I would be shocked. Maybe trying too hard to make the point...we are 23-3, but we are also playing below our potential and as the season end approaches, there is reason to be concerned as to why.

I think it is clearly an adjustment to adding a major part back to the lineup. But it would have helped if we could have done this in December and not late January

[Olsondogg]

I tend to fall closer to you, ODogg, than most of the fans who go straight negative.

But if you aren't concerned about how we have been playing and think record is the only indicator of future performance, I would be shocked. Maybe trying too hard to make the point...we are 23-3, but we are also playing below our potential and as the season end approaches, there is reason to be concerned as to why.

Here's why I don't share those concerns, and yes people will state that Trier came back against uCla...but did we look great in the 2nd half of the USC game just prior to our greatest win? How did we look against ASU in the second half when we gave up 50? But after those games we beat uCla, a team at the time was the king of all CBB and beat them convincingly.

My point is this. We can all nitpick and feel upset or whatever when things aren't double digit blowouts...and the team will continue to grind out wins. People can be "concerned" about whatever they want, but KU was just about to lose their second home game in a month before stumbling upon a miracle...and just look at the turmoil all over the top 10.

So here's the thing. I am only concerned about injury. That's it. Everything else will work itself out as it has all season, and meanwhile we sit atop a conference staring at a seed that you all would have chopped a limb off for back in November.

So frankly, I shit on all the concerns and enjoy watching a team grind out wins that most in the country would not be able to do.

[PHXCATS]

You act like U of A has multiple titles and makes the final four every other year.

Vs asu and USC as you say, Arizona had huge leads. Not the case the last six games.

You clearly think you know more than anyone else but the facts don't back that up. Facts matter beyond just the record.

[Olsondogg]

You act like U of A has multiple titles and makes the final four every other year.

Vs asu and USC as you say, Arizona had huge leads. Not the case the last six games.

You clearly think you know more than anyone else but the facts don't back that up. Facts matter beyond just the record.

WTF are you talking about? Facts? What fucking facts?

Arizona has been a few plays away from multiple final 4's under Miller in the last 4 years...am I supposed to be concerned about his ability to prepare a team for March?

Am I supposed to ignore the fucking facts that I posted above?

I don't know any more or less than anyone else offering the shitty opinion that something is wrong with a first place team. Get a fucking clue.

[gumby]

My barometer is Miller. He's concerned.

And:

[PHXCATS]

Typing out of both sides of your keyboard. Give credit for U of A grinding out wins and barely beating lesser teams but not using the same logic about the tournament the last 16 years.

[Olsondogg]

Typing out of both sides of your keyboard. Give credit for U of A grinding out wins and barely beating lesser teams but not using the same logic about the tournament the last 16 years.

Fantastic stuff there. Well done.

[Olsondogg]

My barometer is Miller. He's concerned.

And:

Curious...did you watch him say that Gumby?

[Olsondogg]

Here you go...it's at the 12 minute mark. He's not concerned, he's making a joke about it:

[WildcatStunner]

Welcome to Olsondogg's echo chamber.

[Olsondogg]

You know what, you guys convinced me. I changed my mind. This team has serious issues and the sky is falling. I hope we are able to still get to the tourney.

[WildcatStunner]

You know what, you guys convinced me. I changed my mind. This team has serious issues and the sky is falling. I hope we are able to still get to the tourney.

To be fair, I fall in your line of thought when it comes to the team/season. As for concerns, I don't bother getting worked up over them. The only people that have control over problems the team may have are the coaches and players. I leave that to them. I just hope we win everytime.

[prh]

We go through this same argument every year, with only slight variations. We look bad in a lot of league games, but we still somehow win. We can't handle a zone, but we have finished top 20 AdjO every year we've made the tourney under Miller. The Pac is too weak and won't prepare us for the tournament, but we haven't lost a game we should have won in the tourney under Miller either (with the exception of last year).

So you can either trust Miller will get the team prepared for March, or you can think everything is awful and will never get better and probably just live a sad life forever.

[PHXCATS]

You are going way too far with it. I am not saying they can't win or can't turn it around. But I am concerned they won't. This team doesn't beat a a one through four seen the way they have played the last six games.

[prh]

You are going way too far with it. I am not saying they can't win or can't turn it around. But I am concerned they won't. This team doesn't beat a a one through four seen the way they have played the last six games.

That's exactly the point. Every year people are concerned they won't turn it around and yet somehow they do.

[baconus66]

When I look at this team, even when they play poorly, all i can see is a ridiculous amount of talent and potential. Who knows if they reach that potential? But I have full faith in Miller to give them as good of a shot as anyone could to do it.

Even though the result was closer than anyone wanted I saw a noticeable improvement in against Cal. The movement on O looked better, less weak Turnovers, and best D in a few games. If you would have added an average Lauri game we would have beat them comfortably.

[Spaceman Spiff]

When I look at this team, even when they play poorly, all i can see is a ridiculous amount of talent and potential. Who knows if they reach that potential? But I have full faith in Miller to give them as good of a shot as anyone could to do it.

Even though the result was closer than anyone wanted I saw a noticeable improvement in against Cal. The movement on O looked better, less weak Turnovers, and best D in a few games. If you would have added an average Lauri game we would have beat them comfortably.

Heck, I think if we'd had a decent offensive start to the 2nd half, we would have won by 15. Our D was pretty good all night.

[Chicat]

I thought our D was awesome. Rabb is easily one of the top 6-7 players in the league and we held him to 2 of 7 shooting and 3 rebounds. Beyond Jabari Bird, everyone else on Cal had a shit game. We took them out of any kind of rhythm and did not allow them to execute on the offensive end the entire night. We also only allowed them FOUR offensive rebounds and four second chance points on a night they shot under 45%.

I'd have more of an issue with our offense, but I think we only had 49 possessions the entire game because both teams played great D and the shot clock ran down time and time again. With that context, 62 points is not really something to worry about. We did what we needed to do to win.

[Puerco]

Reason to worry? We're 1-3 vs the top 25.

Winning six games in a row in the post season is HARD. I think those of us who are worried want a national championship, not another close Elite Eight loss. When the efficiency models like Kenpom and Sagarin have us rated in the twenties, I worry about not winning the national championship.

Don't you?

[ChooChooCat]

Reason to worry? We're 1-3 vs the top 25.

Winning six games in a row in the post season is HARD. I think those of us who are worried want a national championship, not another close Elite Eight loss. When the efficiency models like Kenpom and Sagarin have us rated in the twenties, I worry about not winning the national championship.

Don't you?

Hell I'm not remotely picky enough to pine for a national championship from this squad, I just want a final four already. It's all about draw and about how the team comes together by March. Syracuse last year or UCONN any time they make a wtf run is all the proof you need of that.

[Chicat]

Reason to worry? We're 1-3 vs the top 25.

Winning six games in a row in the post season is HARD. I think those of us who are worried want a national championship, not another close Elite Eight loss. When the efficiency models like Kenpom and Sagarin have us rated in the twenties, I worry about not winning the national championship.

Don't you?

No. In fact, that sounds miserable.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Reason to worry? We're 1-3 vs the top 25.

Winning six games in a row in the post season is HARD. I think those of us who are worried want a national championship, not another close Elite Eight loss. When the efficiency models like Kenpom and Sagarin have us rated in the twenties, I worry about not winning the national championship.

Don't you?

So, yes and no. First, it's impossible to overlook that we were shorthanded for two of those games. Gonzaga, we did not have the personnel to win that game, period. Butler, we could and should have won but for some awful reffing.

Point being, the difference between 1-3 and 3-1 isn't tremendous. My focus is on doing the things that can flip that margin. Against Cal, I thought we did the D and glass things necessary to flip that margin, but our offense sputtered a bit (although not as bad as the game would make you think on a first pass).

[gumby]

You know what, you guys convinced me. I changed my mind. This team has serious issues and the sky is falling. I hope we are able to still get to the tourney.

And the patented hyperbolic distortion. My turn.

OK, you've convinced me. Miller has zero concerns. Probably working on his Monday night speech. Just hand over the trophy.

Say, that was FUN! Love the Land of Either/Or. Makes for great convos.

[ChooChooCat]

You know what, you guys convinced me. I changed my mind. This team has serious issues and the sky is falling. I hope we are able to still get to the tourney.

And the patented hyperbolic distortion. My turn.

OK, you've convinced me. Miller has zero concerns. Probably working on his Monday night speech. Just hand over the trophy.

Say, that was FUN! Love the Land of Either/Or. Makes for great convos.

[CalStateTempe]

[Olsondogg]

You know what, you guys convinced me. I changed my mind. This team has serious issues and the sky is falling. I hope we are able to still get to the tourney.

And the patented hyperbolic distortion. My turn.

OK, you've convinced me. Miller has zero concerns. Probably working on his Monday night speech. Just hand over the trophy.

Say, that was FUN! Love the Land of Either/Or. Makes for great convos.

Yeah the "I'm worried/sky is falling" conversation is always great. Sorry I stepped in the middle of a downpour. I should learn that a body of work over a season matters not, it's the record against only certain teams and quotes taken out of context that truly matter.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Who says only politics can make people stake out sides on issues nowadays?

[Alieberman]

Love ODogg's optimism and while I agree we are proving to be a great team... it doesn't mean we aren't showing a few flaws right now that if not corrected could lead to an earlier than expected exit from the tournament

[Olsondogg]

There isn't a team out there without a few flaws that will lead to an exit from the tournament. In fact, I take that back... there is only one team out there that will correct their flaws enough to win the whole thing.

[ChooChooCat]

There isn't a team out there without a few flaws that will lead to an exit from the tournament. In fact, I take that back... there is only one team out there that will correct their flaws enough to win the whole thing.

Well of course, but I wasn't aware that should disqualify people from expressing their concerns of their favorite team's flaws.

[Olsondogg]

There isn't a team out there without a few flaws that will lead to an exit from the tournament. In fact, I take that back... there is only one team out there that will correct their flaws enough to win the whole thing.

Well of course, but I wasn't aware that should disqualify people from expressing their concerns of their favorite team's flaws.

Where did I say it should disqualify people from expressing concerns? Or are those of us that laugh at the concerns the one's that should not be able to express their critique of said "concerns"?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Here's how it is.

If your team has only lost to good teams: you may be in trouble. Sure, you can beat the bad teams, but that won't get you to a Final Four.

If your team has done ok vs top teams, but has a few bad losses: you may be in trouble. Sure, you have potential, but you take games off, and that won't get you to a Final Four.

If your team is undefeated: you may be in trouble. The pressure has been building all year and you have to play with a target on you. That won't get you to a Final Four.

[ChooChooCat]

23-3. 12-1 and in 1st place in PAC. Ranked in top 5. 17-1 in the last 18 games, with only loss coming on the road to a top 5-10 team.

But people bitch and whine because of how the games "look" or covering a fucking spread.

Unreal.

Maybe this post implies that people who express concerns are nothing but bitchers and whiners? I mean just maybe?

[Olsondogg]

I think this AZ team will be solid but probably not a league champion. Other teams have better returning players, like OR, Cal, and Ucla.

I'd say we'll finish 3rd or 4th and reach the NCAA tourney.

Team is a fucking dumpster fire this year.

Well luckily other than Mich St and Texas A&M our very weak non-conference will help out a bit. We can still go undefeated, but by conference time without Trier or Chance we are looking at a season slightly worse than last season. I'd say outside top 25, 10 seed.

What an effing dumpster fire. This program is so snake bitten it is ridiculous. Always some major blow, one right after another. And I dont care what anyone says, Smith healthy, Trier and Comanche suited up, this was going to be a VERY good team and a legitimate final four contender come March. And we get a special dynamic player like Lauri and it has this feeling like it's almost going to go to waste. Like I wish we could have had him just about any other season rather than this one. God this is beyond depressing.

Me too.....no matter what, it's disappointing as to what could have been.......starting with TFerg, Zo, Chance then Ray. Am guessing that we will end up battling for 3rd in the conference this year without Zo.

[ChooChooCat]

1st of all you quoted BeachCat97, doesn't that equate to an automatic ban or suspension? 2nd of all I don't see how people's hot takes during the early portion of the season where we just lost Ray, didn't have Zo, and probably just had Parker injured make your point at all?

It's February, we're a month away from games mattering more than anything that occurred in November/December, there are negative trends occurring, which cause concern. This isn't rocket science.

[Alieberman]

Those are quotes about injuries, not play

Unfair
Sad

[Olsondogg]

1st of all you quoted BeachCat97, doesn't that equate to an automatic ban or suspension? 2nd of all I don't see how people's hot takes during the early portion of the season where we just lost Ray, didn't have Zo, and probably just had Parker injured make your point at all?

It's February, we're a month away from games mattering more than anything that occurred in November/December, there are things to fix, which cause concern. This isn't rocket science.

I hope you all figure out the things to fix and immediately tell Miller how to save a season. I mean, it's not rocket science...anyone from their couch can do it!

[ChooChooCat]

Those are quotes about injuries, not play

Unfair
Sad

ODogg got Trumped.

[ChooChooCat]

1st of all you quoted BeachCat97, doesn't that equate to an automatic ban or suspension? 2nd of all I don't see how people's hot takes during the early portion of the season where we just lost Ray, didn't have Zo, and probably just had Parker injured make your point at all?

It's February, we're a month away from games mattering more than anything that occurred in November/December, there are things to fix, which cause concern. This isn't rocket science.

I hope you all figure out the things to fix and immediately tell Miller how to save a season. I mean, it's not rocket science...anyone from their couch can do it!

There we go, let's end it with the hyperbolic you can't express your concerns because you're not and have never coached Division I Basketball! Get back to your couch lackey! How dare you doubt God Lord Emperor Sean Miller's team's play in February!

[Olsondogg]

1st of all you quoted BeachCat97, doesn't that equate to an automatic ban or suspension? 2nd of all I don't see how people's hot takes during the early portion of the season where we just lost Ray, didn't have Zo, and probably just had Parker injured make your point at all?

It's February, we're a month away from games mattering more than anything that occurred in November/December, there are things to fix, which cause concern. This isn't rocket science.

I hope you all figure out the things to fix and immediately tell Miller how to save a season. I mean, it's not rocket science...anyone from their couch can do it!

There we go, let's end it with the hyperbolic you can't express your concerns because you're not and have never coached Division I Basketball! Get back to your couch lackey! How dare you doubt God Lord Emperor Sean Miller's team's play in February!

Again, cause this isn't sinking in, feel free to express "concerns" as you have a right to. I also have a right to post how ridiculous those concerns are.

Additionally, I got "trumped" (political stuff? Um....people hate that here)

I should point out what I was saying when the team was a "dumpster fire" in your opinion:

I just don't buy shitty "ceiling" arguments at the beginning of the season. It's fair to say that we won't be as good as we could have been with certain players, but really...there isn't any reason to say that yet. This isn't Bash going down mid PAC season, the season has not even started yet and most of our players (and frankly alot in CBB in general) are unproven commodities.

I still feel similar. We haven't recently lost a starter, we've actually gained one. We haven't had a losing streak...well...ever this season...while our metrics aren't fantastic, our record and ranking and potential seeds are. Sure the team looks different, as it has the entire year. If things don't "look good" to certain fans, then fine...bitch and whine...but I'll always point out the facts that it's a top 5 team, sitting alone atop the conference in mid-February with a national coach of the year at the helm and looking at a favorable seed line in a month.

For all the couch coaches I hope that we blow out the washington schools and that everyone plays up to everyone's expectations so that we can all feel better momentarily until we don't "look good" again. I'll just enjoy the wins.

[Chicat]

Where do people think this team needs to most improve to reach a Final Four or win a National Championship? Just for some perspective, I ran through some stats over the last 6 games. Here they are:

FG% - 46%
3pt% - 35%
Rebound Differential Average - 32-24 (we're getting 8 more rebounds on average than our opponents)
Assist to Turnover Ratio - 1.17-1
Opp FG% - 46%

Throw out the Oregon game and everything trends much better in our favor. Oregon shot 65% against us, which is a huge outlier and if you throw that game out opponents are shooting 43% against our defense recently. That's also the only game where we were out-rebounded.

I'd like the see the A-TO% improve, and for us to get more assists overall. Other than that, everything seems to be right in line with the rest of the season. So I'm not seeing where the "this team is trending down" storyline is coming from other than we're not blowing teams out. Oh, except in those last 6 games we've got two wins by 17 points and another by 11.

Games are going to be tighter heading down the stretch for a few reasons: 1) Opponents are seemingly playing better and playing tighter games across the league. 2) We're seeing teams for a second time, so they've got ample film on us and can correct things they screwed up in the first game. 3) We've got a bunch of freshmen who played a ton of minutes when Trier and PJC were out, so fatigue is setting in.

Maybe we should just reconcile ourselves to the fact that we play in a good league and face good teams and may not blow every team off the floor.

[ChooChooCat]

1st of all you quoted BeachCat97, doesn't that equate to an automatic ban or suspension? 2nd of all I don't see how people's hot takes during the early portion of the season where we just lost Ray, didn't have Zo, and probably just had Parker injured make your point at all?

It's February, we're a month away from games mattering more than anything that occurred in November/December, there are things to fix, which cause concern. This isn't rocket science.

I hope you all figure out the things to fix and immediately tell Miller how to save a season. I mean, it's not rocket science...anyone from their couch can do it!

There we go, let's end it with the hyperbolic you can't express your concerns because you're not and have never coached Division I Basketball! Get back to your couch lackey! How dare you doubt God Lord Emperor Sean Miller's team's play in February!

Again, cause this isn't sinking in, feel free to express "concerns" as you have a right to. I also have a right to post how ridiculous those concerns are.

Additionally, I got "trumped" (political stuff? Um....people hate that here)

I should point out what I was saying when the team was a "dumpster fire" in your opinion:

I just don't buy shitty "ceiling" arguments at the beginning of the season. It's fair to say that we won't be as good as we could have been with certain players, but really...there isn't any reason to say that yet. This isn't Bash going down mid PAC season, the season has not even started yet and most of our players (and frankly alot in CBB in general) are unproven commodities.

I still feel similar. We haven't recently lost a starter, we've actually gained one. We haven't had a losing streak...well...ever this season...while our metrics aren't fantastic, our record and ranking and potential seeds are. Sure the team looks different, as it has the entire year. If things don't "look good" to certain fans, then fine...bitch and whine...but I'll always point out the facts that it's a top 5 team, sitting alone atop the conference in mid-February with a national coach of the year at the helm and looking at a favorable seed line in a month.

For all the couch coaches I hope that we blow out the washington schools and that everyone plays up to everyone's expectations so that we can all feel better momentarily until we don't "look good" again. I'll just enjoy the wins.

1. You feel anything that isn't praising at the temple of how great Arizona is is ridiculous. You also thought it was ridiculous when I and another poster said Arizona's defense wouldn't be a top 20 AdjD team last year and we weren't even close. You can be wrong ODogg, it's ok, it happens.

2. Lol, the structure of Alieberman's post was very similar to the way Trump responds to any thing he doesn't like. I think he did that on purpose and if so kudos and comedy points go to Alieberman.

3. As mentioned by Alieberman, I was calling this team a dumpster fire due to the situation the team was in at the time, which had everything to do with injuries and suspensions. Seriously the situation we were going through was absolutely a dumpster fire. Most teams don't see half as many injuries/suspensions as we did just at the beginning of the year.

4. It's not just that we don't "look" good. The metrics that matter on Kenpom suggest we are regressing. To make the FInal Four you generally need to be top 20 in AdjO and AdjD. Only a few exceptions (I'm looking at you Boeheim) make it without being top 20 in both. Arizona has fell to 24th in AdjO and 29th in AdjD and 23rd overall on Kenpom. We've also fallen in Sagarin ratings as well to 20th. Those are negative trends in worthwhile metrics worth discussing and being concerned about. This isn't some stupid eye test that you're suggesting.

[Longhorned]

I feel like some of you really old people compare the team to selective highlight memories of Lute-coached teams that reached the Final Four, rather than comparing this team to actual college basketball teams that are contenders right now. I can just picture you if you happened to be Kansas or Baylor fans, and how you'd talk about that team's vulnerability on a neutral court against some kind of pesky opponent having a good shooting day.

[scumdevils86]

I feel like some of you really old people compare the team to selective highlight memories of Lute-coached teams that reached the Final Four, rather than comparing this team to actual college basketball teams that are contenders right now. I can just picture you if you happened to be Kansas or Baylor fans, and how you'd talk about that team's vulnerability on a neutral court against some kind of pesky opponent having a good shooting day.

how old do you have to be before you're really old?