Bear Down Wildcats

I still don't understand why people thought big things were going to happen today.

This feels like Trump after the p**** gate video surfaced. What happened to him? We need that resolve from Miller.

Longhorned wrote:I still don't understand why people thought big things were going to happen today.

The sooner things happen, the worse they will be.

I'm gonna be equally upset if it is some ninny grey hair boosters who believe in integrity of the game Santa Claus that are putting pressure on the ad to ditch miller without know all the facts.

Man is a witch if he brought in romer as a contingency plan.

CalStateTempe wrote:I'm gonna be equally upset if it is some ninny grey hair boosters who believe in integrity of the game Santa Claus that are putting pressure on the ad to ditch miller without know all the facts.

Man is a witch if he brought in romer as a contingency plan.

I would like to believe that boosters aren't that naive.

Recall the roster, team, brand, uncertainty, risk when Miller took over the program? We go down with him should that be necessary! Time to pay his loyalty back

I don't know many mckale boosters but I am familiar with unc's and I know they have a older group that would totally attempt to push someone out based on perception alone.

But I do overall share your optimism with our crew.

This could mean he's done this weekend/sometime relatively soon or after the NCAA does it's thing year(s) down the line. (The NCAA won't decide anything anytime soon)

Probably the latter. There's no proof Sean did anything or is implicated in anything right now. I doubt Arizona people or boosters want him gone right now. It would be ridiculous to fire him before anything is proven.

Arizona could be made an example. #1 team headed into the season and an asst coach gets busted. HUGE spotlight. Especially if the NCAA wants to feel big and important.

Louisville's blatant incompetence won't cover for us, eventually that pressure will shift to the next big fish, which is us. Since no other schools have come out.

NYCat wrote:This could mean he's done this weekend or sometime relatively soon or after the NCAA does it's thing year(s) down the line. (The NCAA won't decide anything anytime soon)

Probably the latter. There's no proof Sean did anything or is implicated in anything right now. I doubt Arizona people or boosters want him gone, it will outside (possibly nationally) pressure. It would be ridiculous to fire him before anything is proven.

Arizona could be made an example. #1 team headed into the season and an asst coach gets busted. HUGE spotlight. Especially if the NCAA wants to feel big and important.

Louisville's blatant incompetence won't cover for us, eventually that pressure will shift to the next big fish, which is us. Since no other schools have come out.

This is where east coast bias will help us. Zona isn't a program "they" want to make an example of. Louisville was ripe for the picken, and Pitino is the scalp of this scandal (hopefully, if it's contained, as much is at stake so good probsbility the powers that be contain this)

ChooChooCat wrote:

MrBug708 wrote:Howland was definitely dirty at the end and it didn't save him. I can't imagine Alford' s charm pulled in Looney

Or Wilkes.

Possibly, that was Ed Schillings pull though, so that probably follows him to Indiana

CalStateTempe wrote:That's a great thread idea...

make the thread, you are about as high profile as anyone here.

My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

Sean Miller still silent

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 887da.html" target="_blank

Bosy Billups wrote:

NYCat wrote:This could mean he's done this weekend or sometime relatively soon or after the NCAA does it's thing year(s) down the line. (The NCAA won't decide anything anytime soon)

Probably the latter. There's no proof Sean did anything or is implicated in anything right now. I doubt Arizona people or boosters want him gone, it will outside (possibly nationally) pressure. It would be ridiculous to fire him before anything is proven.

Arizona could be made an example. #1 team headed into the season and an asst coach gets busted. HUGE spotlight. Especially if the NCAA wants to feel big and important.

Louisville's blatant incompetence won't cover for us, eventually that pressure will shift to the next big fish, which is us. Since no other schools have come out.

This is where east coast bias will help us. Zona isn't a program "they" want to make an example of. Louisville was ripe for the picken, and Pitino is the scalp of this scandal (hopefully, if it's contained, as much is at stake so good probsbility the powers that be contain this)

While I appreciate the spin here, your logic is exactly why they would drop the hammer. Their logic = hit em hard, no one cares about those programs out west, keep focus off east teams.

I think all of this is beyond that thinking anyways. It is too big to ignore, and eventually the people who start flipping will give up someone at the blue blood programs. All the dominos fall at that point, and that is beyond the control of the NCAA as long as the feds are involved.

Sleep tight.

PR 101: friday, around 2 or 3pm, would be a fantastic time to pop the cherry and address the media in a presser, with no comment on the investigation. Let the weekend play out, this story dies next week, and get back to biness

Gilbertcat wrote:My fear is Romar pulled in a lot of top kids in his day. I don't assume he is clean and it's dangerous to assume he is the answer.

Then no one is the answer. Arizona, Miller, Romar, Alford, UCLA....all part of the same hypocrisy. It's so disingenuous for coaches of the top 50 programs in the country to act as though there are no extra benefits provided to recruits. Yes, it's a tired argument that, "everyone does it." But they do. And it's done by creating insulation between the program, the money and the recruits. So Dick Vitale or anyone else can't with a straight face tell me that Mike Krzyzewski, Roy Williams, Bill Self, Sean Miller, Tom Izzo and Jim Boeheim are any different from each other.

LBdCactus wrote:

Bosy Billups wrote:

NYCat wrote:This could mean he's done this weekend or sometime relatively soon or after the NCAA does it's thing year(s) down the line. (The NCAA won't decide anything anytime soon)

Probably the latter. There's no proof Sean did anything or is implicated in anything right now. I doubt Arizona people or boosters want him gone, it will outside (possibly nationally) pressure. It would be ridiculous to fire him before anything is proven.

Arizona could be made an example. #1 team headed into the season and an asst coach gets busted. HUGE spotlight. Especially if the NCAA wants to feel big and important.

Louisville's blatant incompetence won't cover for us, eventually that pressure will shift to the next big fish, which is us. Since no other schools have come out.

This is where east coast bias will help us. Zona isn't a program "they" want to make an example of. Louisville was ripe for the picken, and Pitino is the scalp of this scandal (hopefully, if it's contained, as much is at stake so good probsbility the powers that be contain this)

While I appreciate the spin here, your logic is exactly why they would drop the hammer. Their logic = hit em hard, no one cares about those programs out west, keep focus off east teams.

I think all of this is beyond that thinking anyways. It is too big to ignore, and eventually the people who start flipping will give up someone at the blue blood programs. All the dominos fall at that point, and that is beyond the control of the NCAA as long as the feds are involved.

Sleep tight.

Who wants all the dominos to fall? That's where this fantasy ends. The Feds could give a crap about, let's face it, scums hustling a few bills. They DO care about Adidas and the big fish targets.

Aside: think many fed agents and prosecutors attended schools like Duke, UCLA, etc.?

Big networks, universities, and even fans, do NOT want to see heads roll. One did with Pitino who had it coming. This is an opportunity to quietly clean up NCAA sports without blowing it up. Oh hey, Vegas, another interest who wants this to subside. Too much power wants this to blow over, so lets get realistic, thats what will happen.

We good, but need to manage the PR game, and the sanction game too.

This thread makes me think of this for some reason:

Good Lord, what a crazy, fucked up situation this is.....let alone Rawle's injury which seems to be completely normal for a typical, snake-bitten offseason for us. Smh....couldn't imagine a worse situation to be in so close to the season.

IMHO, I have complete faith that CSM is innocent and was unaware of what was going on....I just can't believe that, with his workaholic roots, exceptional talent, and leadership qualities that he would knowingly compromise himself in such an egregious manner. Call me a Homer, but I do see his weaknesses and corruption isn't one of them IMO.

I'll be pissed, sad, and extremely depressed if he's a politically convenient scapegoat or collateral damage of the modern day 'PC University' (maybe this is not the correct term but most fair-minded alumni would agree IMO).

Bear Down Coach Miller!

Hang them all you'll get the guilty.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
That was what struck me as odd. Quinerly was 4-5 spots lower than Bowen, so i figured if Bowen was getting 100, Quinerly would have been 60-75 at least and the 15k was a weird amount.

You know, new news needs to break soon or I'll just go nuts.

Bowen sold in a tight market.

By the time he was making his rounds, he was the only elite wing left on the board. Remember we lucked out with the late Akot reclass. Post-draft, a few teams had a clear hole at wing and were thirsty for a fix. Price goes up.

Bowen's commitment made Sportcenter. Kobi too. Quinerly? Too early. No tease.

That makes sense to me anyways.

TJATUA wrote:

Olsondogg wrote:Got a text saying local PHX sportscaster saying miller doesn’t last the weekend

Is that Jude La Cava? He said something along the lines of "we'll know something w/in 24-48 hours."

Yea, Jude La Cava sticking his head out all the way from the nineties to try to get a damn headline.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

RiseAndFire wrote:

97cats wrote: what did Quinerly get -- 15k

not the standard amount

the plot thickens...........................

Important clarification re Quinerly many seem to be missing.

The complaint says Richardson needed another$15,000 to secure the player, who Dawkins identified as a "top point guard in the country," according to the complaint.

ANOTHER $15k. The extra $15k was just to put the recruitment over the top and lock it up. He was paid far more before the 15k was paid.

that also means Book's cut for Quinerly was far more than the paltry $5k figure ppl are using. And odds are the FBI didn't just happen to stumble upon Books scheme the very first time he ever engaged in it. He'd been funneling all kinds of east coast recruits to miller for years: Parrom, Momo, Sidiki, Lyons, Rondae, Kobi, Rawle

You literally appear to have no idea how the FBI investigation went.

Lol, poor miller fanboy, you are so lost. this must really be tough for you. Pages later in the thread you're still confused if Quinerly was paid 15k or more than 15k. It says right in the complaint per the Star, dumbass:
"A few weeks later, Dawkins told an undercover agent that Richardson needed another $15,000 to secure the player, who Dawkins identified as a "top point guard in the country," according to the complaint."
Any questions? Clearly he was paid a much larger amount (or promised one) before the extra 15k. If you have a hard time understanding this then maybe Special Agent Kim can draw you a powerpoint?

I'd love to hear your (or odogg or rgduece or any other Miller fanboy) bird-brain theory that somehow exonerates Miller, how he went all Donnie Brascoe in a righteous last ditch effort to save everything he stood for, and became an secret FBI agent, like Johnny Utah in Point Break, except for UA Bball. I need the laugh right now.

I want to know how does it feel to trade in your integrity for boring ass bball that only resulted in 3 failures in the elite eight and just 2 wins against higher seeds EVER?

I told you long ago Miller would never make a final four. Hes now more likely to be coaching Kryly's over-30 rec league in Turkfuckistan than to ever make an NCAA tourney again.

Anyone else willing to stick things out with Miller, even if it's a slight cost to our personal decency?

I agreed reading the title then disagreed when I read the OP.If we are paying the players we are doing god's work.

Will you folks slow down? I mean geeze, I go off for a few hours to watch some Shakespeare play in an imitation 'pop-up' Globe Theatre and come back and there are another 10 pages to wade through.

Is there any way we can get an automagic precis of the last few pages in case there is anything readable I missed?

NYCat wrote:There better not be a ledger/black book out there somewhere. Or on a computer

There was, but Seth Rich didn't have time to leak it before he was murdered.

I would like to keep Sean Miller at a cost to my own personal decency (thinking about it for 2 nights now).

I have a few very good friends in Portland that I spoke to tonight...

No Surprise, but people at Adidas are shitting their pants and suggested the talking heads are right (this is only the tip of the iceberg)... and have zero doubts that Nike will end up being in as much deep shit as they are. Paraphrased "Where do you think we learned it from?"

As for NCAA BB & FB? They think this will end up being as significant as 97Cats suggests it will be.

And I wasn't drinking the second night and I'm still OK with sticking to a coach that at this point might need the advice of his lawyer.

Sean Miller silent as questions mount about past, future of Arizona Wildcats basketball program
By Bruce Pascoe Arizona Daily Star Sep 28, 2017 Updated 4 hrs ago

http://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildcat ... 887da.html" target="_blank

Wildcats practiced Thursday, Sean Miller was there, per report
Unless something changes with Miller’s employment status, there isn’t any reason why he wouldn’t be
by Ryan Kelapire@RKelapire Sep 28, 2017, 6:31pm PDT

Despite all the turmoil surrounding the Arizona Wildcats basketball program because of an FBI investigation, the team practiced as usual Thursday.

And yes, head coach Sean Miller was there, point guard Parker Jackson-Cartwright told Erica Weston of KGUN 9.

Erica Weston @EricaLWeston

Just saw @APlayersProgram outside McKale. PJC told me the team did practice today, and Sean Miller was there.
5:29 PM - Sep 28, 2017

While Miller was not implicated in the FBI investigation that resulted in assistant Book Richardson’s arrest for improper behavior on the recruiting trail, there are some serious allegations directed toward the Arizona program.

And seeing that Miller is in charge of said program, many are wondering what his fate at the UA will be (as well as what type of role he had in the scandal, if any at all).

https://www.azdesertswarm.com/basketbal ... recruiting" target="_blank

"Sean Miller went to work today" is really worthy of a whole article?

The media has already run out of things to talk about obviously. Wouldn't the article-worthy story be if he didn't show up?

Chicat wrote:I figured you had something more as far as the criminality with this scandal than the idea that the FBI's investigation isn't over and your own hurt feelings.

I was mistaken. And I think you've mistaken what is illegal and what is against NCAA regulations.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Here's part of what Book's indictment says

EVANS, RICHARDSON, BLAND, DAWKINS, and SOOD, and others known and unknown, participated in a scheme to defraud University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 by facilitating and concealing bribe payments to prospective and current student-athletes at those universities, and/or their families, including by telephone, email, and wire transfers of funds, among other means, thereby causing University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 to provide athletic scholarships to student­ athletes who, in truth and in fact, were ineligible to compete as a result of the bribe payments.

So, I conclude that anyone who participates in payments to athletes or their representatives 1) causes thereby to make the athlete ineligible, and therefore 2) defrauds the athlete's university.

pc in NM wrote:

Chicat wrote:I figured you had something more as far as the criminality with this scandal than the idea that the FBI's investigation isn't over and your own hurt feelings.

I was mistaken. And I think you've mistaken what is illegal and what is against NCAA regulations.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Here's part of what Book's indictment says

EVANS, RICHARDSON, BLAND, DAWKINS, and SOOD, and others known and unknown, participated in a scheme to defraud University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 by facilitating and concealing bribe payments to prospective and current student-athletes at those universities, and/or their families, including by telephone, email, and wire transfers of funds, among other means, thereby causing University-2, University-3, University-4, and University-5 to provide athletic scholarships to student­ athletes who, in truth and in fact, were ineligible to compete as a result of the bribe payments.

So, I conclude that anyone who participates in payments to athletes or their representatives 1) causes thereby to make the athlete ineligible, and therefore 2) defrauds the athlete's university.

I see how you could conclude that. I also know you'd have to build 10 more federal prisons to house everyone you see as guilty in this because they played some tangential role in players who should be paid getting some money from shoe companies and agents.

Would you include people like me in your future roster of felons? After all, I'm a booster who provides financial support to the program and in exchange I expect the team to field the best talent available. Should I be doing a five year stint at a federal prison for my crimes?

SunnyAZ wrote:I agreed reading the title then disagreed when I read the OP.If we are paying the players we are doing god's work.

I had the same thought...

Shot: "Eh, don't care."
Chaser: "LOCK EVERYONE UP UNTIL THEIR BALL HAIRS TURN WHITE!!!!!"

But now I see what PC is saying, although I think their is a difference of opinion on the nuances between ethics and legalities.

One rule in life is that nothing suddenly changes overnight. No use weeping over something that was lost gradually and then finally a long time ago. No point in wanting to hold onto things.

Chicat wrote:"Sean Miller went to work today" is really worthy of a whole article?

The media has already run out of things to talk about obviously. Wouldn't the article-worthy story be if he didn't show up?

I can tell you that the local media are chomping at the bit here and are praying that 97cats is right and Miller doesn't survive this.

YoDeFoe wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:
That was what struck me as odd. Quinerly was 4-5 spots lower than Bowen, so i figured if Bowen was getting 100, Quinerly would have been 60-75 at least and the 15k was a weird amount.

You know, new news needs to break soon or I'll just go nuts.

Bowen sold in a tight market.

By the time he was making his rounds, he was the only elite wing left on the board. Remember we lucked out with the late Akot reclass. Post-draft, a few teams had a clear hole at wing and were thirsty for a fix. Price goes up.

Bowen's commitment made Sportcenter. Kobi too. Quinerly? Too early. No tease.

That makes sense to me anyways.

I think you nailed it. Bowen played the open market where he was all that was on the market. As far as Quinerly goes sometimes kids just really want to go to a school regardless, but still get paid a little something out of good faith. Poor kid.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Chicat wrote:"Sean Miller went to work today" is really worthy of a whole article?

The media has already run out of things to talk about obviously. Wouldn't the article-worthy story be if he didn't show up?

I can tell you that the local media are chomping at the bit here and are praying that 97cats is right and Miller doesn't survive this.

Vultures are circling eh. Argghh.

Reminder: A fan website that lost its press credentials was kept away from McKale in the interests of the program. Against the interests of the program, Book Richardson secretly took money from that website in exchange for information at the expense of the program. After he got caught, Miller allowed him to stay for years.

The players loved him. He had New York connections. We all know he wasn't the only available assistant coach with lovability and regional connections, but I guess Miller thought that was worth the risk.

Longhorned wrote:Reminder: A fan website that lost its press credentials was kept away from McKale in the interests of the program. Against the interests of the program, Book Richardson secretly took money from that website in exchange for information at the expense of the program. After he got caught, Miller allowed him to stay for years.

The players loved him. He had New York connections. We all know he wasn't the only available assistant coach with lovability and regional connections, but I guess Miller thought that was worth the risk.

Another reminder: Book Richardson was offered by Louisville to be an assistant for more money than Arizona was paying him, but he was loyal to Sean Miller very likely due to the scenario Longhorned just outlined.

It all comes full circle.

RE: Quinerly. If Book was crooked enough to take a bribe, it's plausible he was crooked enough to keep the entirety of it. Unless the FBI somehow tracked Book personally handing a family member the money, it's all talk but it was a way to solicit quick money from the financial advisor.

Which brings me to my next thought, what if Book was actually attempting to play the financial advisor? This random FA is paying 5k a month for influence, but "influence" doesn't guarantee results. Book could have gotten a year or two of stipend before the FA realized he himself was being played. What could the FA do at that point? Agents try this all the time and it doesn't necessarily guarantee the player actually becoming a client. Ryan Leaf did this. Arizona just had multiple guys in the draft and this FA didn't get one.

ZONACAT wrote:RE: Quinerly. If Book was crooked enough to take a bribe, it's plausible he was crooked enough to keep the entirety of it. Unless the FBI somehow tracked Book personally handing a family member the money, it's all talk but it was a way to solicit quick money from the financial advisor.

Which brings me to my next thought, what if Book was actually attempting to play the financial advisor? This random FA is paying 5k a month for influence, but "influence" doesn't guarantee results. Book could have gotten a year or two of stipend before the FA realized he himself was being played. What could the FA do at that point? Agents try this all the time and it doesn't necessarily guarantee the player actually becoming a client. Ryan Leaf did this. Arizona just had multiple guys in the draft and this FA didn't get one.

While you are absolutely 100% correct on this, the last point doesn't work for your overall point, because this whole thing didn't start officially until this summer, so his influence (if he had any or even chose to utilize it) wouldn't have come into play until this year's group.

Hey guys, haven't been around here in a long while, what's up? Did I miss anything?

ChooChooCat wrote:

ZONACAT wrote:RE: Quinerly. If Book was crooked enough to take a bribe, it's plausible he was crooked enough to keep the entirety of it. Unless the FBI somehow tracked Book personally handing a family member the money, it's all talk but it was a way to solicit quick money from the financial advisor.

Which brings me to my next thought, what if Book was actually attempting to play the financial advisor? This random FA is paying 5k a month for influence, but "influence" doesn't guarantee results. Book could have gotten a year or two of stipend before the FA realized he himself was being played. What could the FA do at that point? Agents try this all the time and it doesn't necessarily guarantee the player actually becoming a client. Ryan Leaf did this. Arizona just had multiple guys in the draft and this FA didn't get one.

While you are absolutely 100% correct on this, the last point doesn't work for your overall point, because this whole thing didn't start officially until this summer, so his influence (if he had any or even chose to utilize it) wouldn't have come into play until this year's group.

I would also argue, with how nonchalant Book was about initially meeting and quickly agreeing a deal with this financial advisor, that this wasn't Book's first rodeo and he had likely been skimming agents and financial advisors for years.

Longhorned wrote:One rule in life is that nothing suddenly changes overnight. No use weeping over something that was lost gradually and then finally a long time ago. No point in wanting to hold onto things.

I’d agree with you in this situation.

However, your life is gonna be shocking if you think your rule is correct. My life has literally and suddenly changed overnight on a few occasions. So your rule is complete shit.

ChooChooCat wrote:

Chicat wrote:"Sean Miller went to work today" is really worthy of a whole article?

The media has already run out of things to talk about obviously. Wouldn't the article-worthy story be if he didn't show up?

I can tell you that the local media are chomping at the bit here and are praying that 97cats is right and Miller doesn't survive this.

That is so weird to me. Why? Miller is the best thing to happen to uofa bb since lute retired. He's a class act and represents the university and city well. Is it just the "if it bleeds it leads" mentality? I dont get why the animosity.

ChooChooCat wrote:As far as Quinerly goes sometimes kids just really want to go to a school regardless, but still get paid a little something out of good faith. Poor kid.

That is so sad to hear. Makes me dislike book even more.

Longhorned wrote:Reminder: A fan website that lost its press credentials was kept away from McKale in the interests of the program. Against the interests of the program, Book Richardson secretly took money from that website in exchange for information at the expense of the program. After he got caught, Miller allowed him to stay for years.

The players loved him. He had New York connections. We all know he wasn't the only available assistant coach with lovability and regional connections, but I guess Miller thought that was worth the risk.

Sounds like your alluding to what I suspected. Book rolled on miller.

I saw that happening a mile away. It's what weak minded people do.

ChooChooCat wrote:Wow that was a mic drop if I've ever seen one.

Choo, there are a lot of people that bow at the alter and it appears (most often) they don't even know why. Yet, when the mic rudely gets dropped on their foot they still clamor for more.

I'm led to believe Billy Sunday said once: “The backslider likes the preaching that wouldn't hit the side of a house."

Olsondogg wrote:

Longhorned wrote:One rule in life is that nothing suddenly changes overnight. No use weeping over something that was lost gradually and then finally a long time ago. No point in wanting to hold onto things.

I’d agree with you in this situation.

However, your life is gonna be shocking if you think your rule is correct. My life has literally and suddenly changed overnight on a few occasions. So your rule is complete shit.

Well, who's fault might that be? You have been in the face of dissent--big time, and for years.