Bear Down Wildcats

I wonder what the other players say to Akot when they see him on campus? It's a long time since I played organized sports but quitters were pretty much shunned.

One bright note from last night was that Miller seemed engaged the whole game squatting by the scorer's table instead of sitting dejectedly in his chair

MC1983 wrote:Heaven forbid trying to use zone with this less talented and short handed team. Miller said the team was gassed at the end. Maybe help those kids out a little bit so they are not running around chasing there man when the there is no bench. No f-ck that idea because zone is beneath us. Oh but we really like this 10 th place in the PAC.

I've posted this before, but zone doesn't require less effort. Or, you're playing a really crappy zone if you're devoting less effort.

In the realm of things I do wonder about, I've always wondered about burning timeouts in a scheduled way to maximize rest. It should work with the tv stops, but just not conserving them and giving regular rests might work. Sure, you won't have them for strategy, but you have to give something up.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MC1983 wrote:Heaven forbid trying to use zone with this less talented and short handed team. Miller said the team was gassed at the end. Maybe help those kids out a little bit so they are not running around chasing there man when the there is no bench. No f-ck that idea because zone is beneath us. Oh but we really like this 10 th place in the PAC.

I've posted this before, but zone doesn't require less effort. Or, you're playing a really crappy zone if you're devoting less effort.

In the realm of things I do wonder about, I've always wondered about burning timeouts in a scheduled way to maximize rest. It should work with the tv stops, but just not conserving them and giving regular rests might work. Sure, you won't have them for strategy, but you have to give something up.

There also is not only the energy part but the position. I can’t even count how many times are players get beat to the rim in a game. Zone has been known to be used by the less talented.

MC1983 wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

MC1983 wrote:Heaven forbid trying to use zone with this less talented and short handed team. Miller said the team was gassed at the end. Maybe help those kids out a little bit so they are not running around chasing there man when the there is no bench. No f-ck that idea because zone is beneath us. Oh but we really like this 10 th place in the PAC.

I've posted this before, but zone doesn't require less effort. Or, you're playing a really crappy zone if you're devoting less effort.

In the realm of things I do wonder about, I've always wondered about burning timeouts in a scheduled way to maximize rest. It should work with the tv stops, but just not conserving them and giving regular rests might work. Sure, you won't have them for strategy, but you have to give something up.

There also is not only the energy part but the position. I can’t even count how many times are players get beat to the rim in a game. Zone has been known to be used by the less talented.

So, I agree more about the equalizing talent. I don't think zone reduces effort, but I do think it can mask talent deficiencies.

The issue there is whether we're trying to mask talent issues this year, building for next year or some combination. Do you try to squeeze more W's out of this year with zone or maximize learning time for your players?

Personally, I skew towards learning. We want experienced players who are schooled in a system and know what is expected of them. This is how you get those players. We will hopefully at least have 4 returners getting major minutes next year, and that's your leadership core. The degree they're experienced in what we want to do plays a big role.

That's a constant tension with coaching strategy. Are you coaching to win the moment or develop the long term culture?

I agree with Spiff, the rest of the season is meaningless outside of the PAC tourney, even if the Cats lose to Cal.

Merkin wrote:I agree with Spiff, the rest of the season is meaningless outside of the PAC tourney, even if the Cats lose to Cal.

I don't think it's meaningless. I think you always want to create success. The question is more about how you drive for the success.

Do you implement short term patching strategies that aren't part of the long term plan? Do you keep pushing the long term process even if it doesn't maximize your chances in the short term?

I skew towards the long game. It doesn't mean the current games are meaningless, but is it worth bringing our chances vs ASU from 45% to 50% when viewed against the building process?

And yes, I'm personally a bigger fan of man and the idea of a process. That may be my bias.

It's somewhat puzzling that if our players were gassed at the end why were IL, DD, and AB below their average PT from the preceding 3 games? AB got banged up but came back in and played less than half his average minutes. DD was under by more than 6 minutes. IL was down by 10%. Hope AB is OK.

dovecanyoncat wrote:It's somewhat puzzling that if our players were gassed at the end why were IL, DD, and AB below their average PT from the preceding 3 games? AB got banged up but came back in and played less than half his average minutes. DD was under by more than 6 minutes. IL was down by 10%. Hope AB is OK.

Altitude might have some role. Also, I think it's a natural tendency to shorten the bench when down 5-10 points the whole game. You're down, but not by so much you don't think one good run puts you ahead.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

dovecanyoncat wrote:It's somewhat puzzling that if our players were gassed at the end why were IL, DD, and AB below their average PT from the preceding 3 games? AB got banged up but came back in and played less than half his average minutes. DD was under by more than 6 minutes. IL was down by 10%. Hope AB is OK.

Altitude might have some role. Also, I think it's a natural tendency to shorten the bench when down 5-10 points the whole game. You're down, but not by so much you don't think one good run puts you ahead.

I don't envy the decisions Miller must make. If AB/DD are coming back I'd like to see them play more. On the other hand I'd like to see us hang in through the close games and get past the point where we peter out. Just as you say above, we're at the point where it's hard to achieve both.

While this season is pretty much over, I still think trying everything you can to win, even if that means changing things up, should be a priority. For this team, "do what we do" means losing at this point. I would think the team has practiced/played enough to have a pretty good idea of what Miller wants them to do, they're just bad at it. So changing it up shouldn't hurt the long term plan and I would guess most of these players are not in the long term plan anyway. At the same time, when has changing it up to zone for a few possession really ever helped anyway?

Merkin wrote:I wonder what the other players say to Akot when they see him on campus? It's a long time since I played organized sports but quitters were pretty much shunned.

Not that he was putting up big numbers, but he really f'd the team by bailing mid-season.

azgreg wrote:This team is so hard to watch, but I'll keep doing it.

Haven't seen them play in weeks -- just check the scores.

This years team in GIF's

So sad how many people gave up on this team and Miller

Are you including yourself in that comment?

I’m puzzled at how useless DD has become. He used to come in and make an impact to go with his freshman mistakes. He has just been a space filler during this losing streak.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Are you including yourself in that comment?

I’m puzzled at how useless DD has become. He used to come in and make an impact to go with his freshman mistakes. He has just been a space filler during this losing streak.

The deep bench freshman wall?

PHXCATS wrote:So sad how many people gave up on this team and Miller

So you are saying the team doesn't suck?

I still watch every game, and gotta say this team is really bad and not really all that much fun to watch.

Merkin wrote:
So you are saying the team doesn't suck?

I still watch every game, and gotta say this team is really bad and not really all that much fun to watch.

Oh, we suck, but I will watch every game as well. I won't post Mr. Creosote no matter how much I love him. Not in this thread anyway.

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:So sad how many people gave up on this team and Miller

So you are saying the team doesn't suck?

I still watch every game, and gotta say this team is really bad and not really all that much fun to watch.

The team is in a major funk at the very least. But look how few people talk about the games and admit they dont watch.

If Miller is a witch he should be able to come out of this funk. We will see Thursday

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Are you including yourself in that comment?

I’m puzzled at how useless DD has become. He used to come in and make an impact to go with his freshman mistakes. He has just been a space filler during this losing streak.

Nope. I still watch and support. Will be in Vegas. At least this year tickets will be cheap since everyone else has given up

If we win the Pac tourney, I'm commissioning a sculptor to create a Sean Miller statue, which will be placed in the middle of my front lawn.

Might get someone’s attention.

PHXCATS wrote:

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:So sad how many people gave up on this team and Miller

So you are saying the team doesn't suck?

I still watch every game, and gotta say this team is really bad and not really all that much fun to watch.

The team is in a major funk at the very least. But look how few people talk about the games and admit they dont watch.

If Miller is a witch he should be able to come out of this funk. We will see Thursday

Every team has bad seasons, and if you don't have the players even the best coaches can't win.

Remember when Krzyzewski saw he had a losing squad and decided he need back surgery right away?

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:So sad how many people gave up on this team and Miller

So you are saying the team doesn't suck?

I still watch every game, and gotta say this team is really bad and not really all that much fun to watch.

The team is in a major funk at the very least. But look how few people talk about the games and admit they dont watch.

If Miller is a witch he should be able to come out of this funk. We will see Thursday

Every team has bad seasons, and if you don't have the players even the best coaches can't win.

Remember when Krzyzewski saw he had a losing squad and decided he need back surgery right away?

I doubt he does. That's part of our issue. We forget when other big time programs have down years and then when we do, we act like it's shocking. We just don't remember teams that aren't us and have been spoiled by recent success.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:So sad how many people gave up on this team and Miller

So you are saying the team doesn't suck?

I still watch every game, and gotta say this team is really bad and not really all that much fun to watch.

The team is in a major funk at the very least. But look how few people talk about the games and admit they dont watch.

If Miller is a witch he should be able to come out of this funk. We will see Thursday

Every team has bad seasons, and if you don't have the players even the best coaches can't win.

Remember when Krzyzewski saw he had a losing squad and decided he need back surgery right away?

I doubt he does. That's part of our issue. We forget when other big time programs have down years and then when we do, we act like it's shocking. We just don't remember teams that aren't us and have been spoiled by recent success.

Down years happen. Losing seven games in a row is a different thing.

And didnt you say that Miller was so good because he didnt down years?

I’m quite sure no one here envisioned a 7 game losing streak in Jan/Feb was in the realm of possibility. I expected a down year. This is worse than what I expected, though.

at home, vs Cal, that's gotta be a win right?

Even with our health issues and everything, it's still gotta be a win......right?

There are six teams that have losing records and are ranked higher per Ken Pom. And bottom third in a lot of offensive and defensive ratings in Pac 12 play.

PieceOfMeat wrote:at home, vs Cal, that's gotta be a win right?

Even with our health issues and everything, it's still gotta be a win......right?

PieceOfMeat wrote:at home, vs Cal, that's gotta be a win right?

Even with our health issues and everything, it's still gotta be a win......right?

Cal is really bad. But we're on a losing streak. We shoukd win, but nothing is for granted. BWill back and healthy would be big.

No way we’re losing to Cal at McKale.

I'm more interested in the Stanford game. If the streak doesn't end this year of all years, I don't think Miller will ever lose to them.

I still think we'll lose, but it'll be hilarious if we somehow manage to win.

Esp if we lose to Cal first
Hell, Cal could get the sweep and furd go o-fer, nothing surprises this year in the Pac.

Merkin wrote:I wonder what the other players say to Akot when they see him on campus? It's a long time since I played organized sports but quitters were pretty much shunned.

Ayton invited Akot to the Suns Warriors UA Wildcat Club Boosters meet last week. Aytons family was there and Akot walked in and sat with them in the next section over from all the boosters. You could tell the UA Admin were less than thrilled to see him and made sure he was not in any pictures. He got the hint and went another section over to wait for Ayton to be finished.

it doesn’t seem possible that Miller loses to Cal
then again, nobody thought you could have the fbi wiretap your coaches or go from #2 to unranked in a week

expect the unexpected with Miller!

Sad that there is no more pride in the names on front or back of the jersey by the players

PHXCATS wrote:Sad that there is no more pride in the names on front or back of the jersey by the players

What the hell do you mean by that? We have a shitty team right now but I see many guys giving effort on the court they just don't have the talent or depth.

You are a shitty fan.

Alieberman wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Sad that there is no more pride in the names on front or back of the jersey by the players

What the hell do you mean by that? We have a shitty team right now but I see many guys giving effort on the court they just don't have the talent or depth.

You are a shitty fan.

we had a razor thin margin this year because...oh, losing 5 starters and not getting to have a real recruiting class.

In this year we have...lost two players in our top 6 rotation, including our conference leading scorer.

In a year where we had zero room for error.

Then lost an assistant coach.

How many fucking hits are supposed to be taken without consequence? Jesus...

We were 5-1 in conference without Akot and with this thin team. That, alone, was a near miracle. There was a tipping point. Clearly. Brandon Williams was the last straw, and Phelps "admin leave" and the downstream impact of that in both psyche and actual game planning (the coaches do work, ya'know) was just extra shit gravy.

PHXCATS wrote:Sad that there is no more pride in the names on front or back of the jersey by the players

Well, on the upside, "CATS" is on the side of our shorts so we still have pride there.

In more seriousness, it's time to hush up and stay in your lane. You've never said anything that leads me to believe you have an idea you understand what it takes to be a successful athlete. Having some desk jockey talk about stuff he doesn't know about gets old real fast.

If I'm wrong and you actually do have some clue of how athletic success happens, I doubt you'd keep pushing this. Pride doesn't make 3's go in. This is more complex than some "pride" bullshit, and someone who is allegedly an Arizona fan should at least try to have a higher standard.

On second thought, our current losing streak is actually pretty reflective of posting quality with sad trolling like this.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Sad that there is no more pride in the names on front or back of the jersey by the players

Well, on the upside, "CATS" is on the side of our shorts so we still have pride there.

In more seriousness, it's time to hush up and stay in your lane. You've never said anything that leads me to believe you have an idea you understand what it takes to be a successful athlete. Having some desk jockey talk about stuff he doesn't know about gets old real fast.

If I'm wrong and you actually do have some clue of how athletic success happens, I doubt you'd keep pushing this. Pride doesn't make 3's go in. This is more complex than some "pride" bullshit, and someone who is allegedly an Arizona fan should at least try to have a higher standard.

On second thought, our current losing streak is actually pretty reflective of posting quality with sad trolling like this.

You can think whatever the fuck you want to think but if you think I dont know what it takes to be a successful athlete then you are very much mistaken.

Yes pride in yourself and your school does not make the 3 ball go in but when you are far more talented than the other team and you give it everything you got left inside of you, you dont lose 7 straight games. You will yourself to victory at least one time. You dont let the other team get an inch unless they are on the ground.

Or maybe the players just gave up on Miller

A recipe for success is to have a couple stud freshmen and some developing players who have been in the program for a few years with maybe 1 or 2 transfers to fill in the gaps due to folks leaving early to play professionally.

We are currently starting 1 player who was not a transfer into our program. That is a sure sign of disaster especially when everyone credits Miller’s biggest strength as his recruiting

Need something like this to wake the team up and show pride in themselves and the school

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Sad that there is no more pride in the names on front or back of the jersey by the players

Well, on the upside, "CATS" is on the side of our shorts so we still have pride there.

In more seriousness, it's time to hush up and stay in your lane. You've never said anything that leads me to believe you have an idea you understand what it takes to be a successful athlete. Having some desk jockey talk about stuff he doesn't know about gets old real fast.

If I'm wrong and you actually do have some clue of how athletic success happens, I doubt you'd keep pushing this. Pride doesn't make 3's go in. This is more complex than some "pride" bullshit, and someone who is allegedly an Arizona fan should at least try to have a higher standard.

On second thought, our current losing streak is actually pretty reflective of posting quality with sad trolling like this.

You can think whatever the fuck you want to think but if you think I dont know what it takes to be a successful athlete then you are very much mistaken.

Yes pride in yourself and your school does not make the 3 ball go in but when you are far more talented than the other team and you give it everything you got left inside of you, you dont lose 7 straight games. You will yourself to victory at least one time. You dont let the other team get an inch unless they are on the ground.

Or maybe the players just gave up on Miller

Ok, maybe you have cracked the code to the competitive mindset.

To me it just seems like the things fans say. Toughness, pride, etc., which ignores how much other stuff goes into success. You can be super prideful and if your defensive rotations suck and you can't drive the ball, it doesn't matter.

There wasn't all this talk about being weak and prideless when we were 4-0 in league play. These are the same players.

PHXCATS wrote: but when you are far more talented than the other team

During the 7 game losing streak, which opponents did the UA have "far more talent" than?

Jeter may be a G league player, but I don't see any professional talent on the UA team outside of eastern Europe and Asia.

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:

Spaceman Spiff wrote:

PHXCATS wrote:Sad that there is no more pride in the names on front or back of the jersey by the players

Well, on the upside, "CATS" is on the side of our shorts so we still have pride there.

In more seriousness, it's time to hush up and stay in your lane. You've never said anything that leads me to believe you have an idea you understand what it takes to be a successful athlete. Having some desk jockey talk about stuff he doesn't know about gets old real fast.

If I'm wrong and you actually do have some clue of how athletic success happens, I doubt you'd keep pushing this. Pride doesn't make 3's go in. This is more complex than some "pride" bullshit, and someone who is allegedly an Arizona fan should at least try to have a higher standard.

On second thought, our current losing streak is actually pretty reflective of posting quality with sad trolling like this.

You can think whatever the fuck you want to think but if you think I dont know what it takes to be a successful athlete then you are very much mistaken.

Yes pride in yourself and your school does not make the 3 ball go in but when you are far more talented than the other team and you give it everything you got left inside of you, you dont lose 7 straight games. You will yourself to victory at least one time. You dont let the other team get an inch unless they are on the ground.

Or maybe the players just gave up on Miller

Ok, maybe you have cracked the code to the competitive mindset.

To me it just seems like the things fans say. Toughness, pride, etc., which ignores how much other stuff goes into success. You can be super prideful and if your defensive rotations suck and you can't drive the ball, it doesn't matter.

There wasn't all this talk about being weak and prideless when we were 4-0 in league play. These are the same players.

They are the same players, and I am not necessarily saying our team is this way, but a lot of people are hard working and driven and smart when times are good and then fold after a little bit of adversity.

I just pray that the team turns it around and Miller is able to reach them and adjust. Five games left before Vegas. Time to get on a winning streak and playing the best ball of the year.

Merkin wrote:

PHXCATS wrote: but when you are far more talented than the other team

During the 7 game losing streak, which opponents did the UA have "far more talent" than?

Jeter may be a G league player, but I don't see any professional talent on the UA team outside of eastern Europe and Asia.

I acknowledge there are tons of flaws and this is so incredibly far from perfect but how I came up with this is average star rankings of players who played in the games at least five minutes.

Again I acknowledge it is not perfect based on what year players are, what positions they are etc. I am solely saying the group of individual talent on the floor that played. And Jeter being less than 100% also factors in but this is what I came up with.

By composite rankings from 247 so it factors in many different rankings, U of A had an average of 3.75 vs USC and UCLA. And since then the average has been 3.88. So this factors in Akot being off the team and the games Jeter played and didnt play and the games Williams played and didnt play.

Opponent's average rankings by players who played at least 5 minutes in this 7 game losing streak.

USC 4.14
UCLA 4.22
asu 3.71
UW 3.43
WSU 2.22
Utah 3.29
CU 3.13

asu is close in talent by this metric but UA still the far more talented team vs the other four teams since

Well now we know that how players perform in high school against wildly divergent skill sets is the best measure of talent at the collegiate level.

Open your eyes; this is a shockingly untalented team. If you want to take pot shots at Miller’s evaluation misses, that’s obviously fair game at this point.

ByJoveByJingle wrote:Well now we know that how players perform in high school against wildly divergent skill sets is the best measure of talent at the collegiate level.

Open your eyes; this is a shockingly untalented team. If you want to take pot shots at Miller’s evaluation misses, that’s obviously fair game at this point.

How many of the people at Rivals, 24/7, ESPN, etc who evaluate these kids are now coaching D1 teams?

I mean, if the only thing that matters is high school star ratings, shouldn’t Josh Gershon and Evan Daniels be on the short list to replace Miller?

Or could winning college basketball games and running successful programs be slightly more complicated than ranking kids for a website?

Randolph, Barcello, Lee, Doutrive, Williams, 4 stars, Akot a 5 star.

That's a lot of missed evaluations. It's not like Miller was the only one to offer them too.

People are high on Williams, but he is only shooting 38% and 31% 3 pt with 3.7 assists and 1.7 TO a game.

Randolph is shooting 39%/29% with 1.1/1.3 A.TO.

Luther had 10 boards a game his least season at Pitt, and only averages 4 now. Not too great for the strongest guy on the team.


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