Bear Down Wildcats

Alieberman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 10:42 pm There is a very real possibility that Gonzaga and Arizona finish 1-2 in the regular season

What does that say about Mark Few and Tommy Lloyd?

Crazy

At the very least, Few can now boast of establishing a viable coaching tree to add to his resume.

Tommy Lloyd, Arizona Wildcats

When Lloyd accepted the job following a lengthy stint as Mark Few's top assistant at Gonzaga, he had the power to change everything around an Arizona program that had hoped to move forward after Sean Miller's turbulent final years. Lloyd decided to maintain some continuity by retaining assistants Jack Murphy and Jason Terry, a bold move for any new coach in a world where many in Lloyd's position would crave familiarity.

The move worked. Arizona is pursuing a Pac-12 championship -- the first-place Wildcats entered the week with a three-game lead in the race -- and a top seed in the NCAA tournament. Lloyd has assembled a legit national title contender in his first year on the job and produced three players with Pac-12 Player of the Year potential.

https://www.espn.com/mens-college-baske ... conference

Except he didn't really retain Terry...

That’s a Myron piece so consider it drivel

3 headed race imo between Adams, Lloyd, Cooley

Kinda think Lloyd has a tougher fight here because of AZ's status as an elite program. Providence and Texas Tech...a lot harder to build a contender at those schools.

What I really like is Tommy's attitude toward the press. He is polite but will call them out and is very very brief. You can tell this is the part of the job he enjoys the least.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:00 pm The “oh shucks” assassin.

I love this nickname!

So fitting

I remember his 1st press conference when he was introduced at AZ.... my 1st thoughts were "Oh no... Way too nice to succeed"

It was all a mirage....

Alieberman wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:13 am

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 12, 2022 7:00 pm The “oh shucks” assassin.

I love this nickname!

So fitting

I remember his 1st press conference when he was introduced at AZ.... my 1st thoughts were "Oh no... Way too nice to succeed"

It was all a mirage....

I should correct my idioms or whatever they are called:

The Ah Shucks Assassin.

Aw shucks.

wyo-cat wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:32 amAw shucks.

1. Often preceded by the interjections "ah" or "aw."

Whatever.

I’m just using my country upbringing in Iowa and Tenn as a reference.

Before I became a coastal elite in Tucson of all places.

Who says T-Loco?

T- Locals

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:01 am

3 headed race imo between Adams, Lloyd, Cooley

TJ Otzenberger of ISU. Took over a 2 win team and is at 17 or 18 this season.

That dude should be on the list. A few more wins and he’s at +20 from last year.

Beachcat97 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 18, 2022 11:08 am Kinda think Lloyd has a tougher fight here because of AZ's status as an elite program. Providence and Texas Tech...a lot harder to build a contender at those schools.

Texas Tech was in the title game three years ago, then the COVID pause, then they were a three seed last season. I'm impressed with what Adams has done to keep Tech performing at a high level but he was the associate head coach for a successful program and he's carrying on that success. You can see that stylistically there's a lot of carry-over from what Beard did well to what Adams is doing now.

Ed Cooley has the Friars grinding out a lot of close wins ("the luckiest team in CBB," currently) but he benefits from having the most experienced team in the top 25 - everyone in the rotation is a fourth or fifth year guy and either have multiple seasons at Providence or in the case of Durham and Minaya came over as multi-year starters from tougher P5 conferences. I like Cooley (probably a little bit due to Miller liking him so much) but he's been at Providence for a decade plus and has a single tournament win to show for it... I'm sure Providence fans are tired of hearing it but I think Cooley has more to prove before taking home the hardware.

Arizona is a powerhouse, for sure, but recently Texas Tech has been the more successful program and Providence has all the continuity in the world. I think what Lloyd has done in stepping into his first head coaching role at a program with expectations like Arizona (and yes, the still lingering hangover from the FBI scandal) is so remarkable that he deserves to be in a different category than these other coaches right now.

The trophy is awarded the week before the Final Four games tip, so what all of these guys do in March will be determinate. I don't know that we have the leadership on the roster to get us all the way there - but if we do I think Lloyd wins in his first season.

On that last note about Arizona's lack of leadership on the roster - I'm not taking a dig at our guys. We're the fourth least experienced team in college basketball (355/358).

He was calm as fuck out there tonight. Cool under pressure and I feel like that rubbed off on the players on the floor.

Bilas took a swipe at CSM vs. how CTL coaches Koloko.

YoDeFoe wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 2:14 pm On that last note about Arizona's lack of leadership on the roster - I'm not taking a dig at our guys. We're the fourth least experienced team in college basketball (355/358).

I would say that even though we are comparatively young this year, there are loads of 5 & 6 year players out there this year due to covid and that all of our guys that get much time have almost 2 years of experience, this is not that young compared to what we have rolled out previously, the bar is in a different place this year

UAEebs86 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:04 pm Bilas took a swipe at CSM vs. how CTL coaches Koloko.

Yeah like he knows how either of them coach C-LO. They are all dicks.

After watching this latest presser I'm so happy with this coach. He's not as forthcoming as Miller in many respects but especially wrt to important metrics and tactics; he doesn't come off as a quant the way Miller did but he has within his discipline a blissful liberation he wants to impart to his players. "Hey Benn, smile, enjoy this moment." But get tough, get physical.

I think he trusts his guys more than Miller did, and by that I mean he trusts his system to be a robust enhancement of natural ability rather than a narrow rail to channeled execution. A mature team that has been with CTL for a few years will be robust and intuitive on the court, and the kids will love the game all the more for it. The future is bright for Arizona basketball.

Chicat wrote: ↑Sat Feb 19, 2022 11:03 pm He was calm as fuck out there tonight. Cool under pressure and I feel like that rubbed off on the players on the floor.

The Ah Shucks Assassin strikes again.....

But I do have one beef with CTL.

This whole “have fun, smile, just score 1 more point than the other team” bullshit may lead to a 24-2 record, top 2 ranking, #1 seed and possibly a rise to dominance in the college basketball world again…but it’s sucking me back in to dreaming and yearning for another Natty.

Dumpster fire? Yes he had no players and was not expected to be a top 20 team prior to the coaching change. I will agree that he has been very impressive especially instilling confidence in his players and dealing with the media.

EastCoastCat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 8:38 am But I do have one beef with CTL.

This whole “have fun, smile, just score 1 more point than the other team” bullshit may lead to a 24-2 record, top 2 ranking, #1 seed and possibly a rise to dominance in the college basketball world again…but it’s sucking me back in to dreaming and yearning for another Natty.

Honestly I'd settle for getting the Final Four monkey off our back at this point.

Disclaimer: This isn't a post of who's better or shitting on anyone

To me- the biggest difference between Miller and Llyod (besides pace of play) is the amount of rope they give to their players. Miller had a notorious short rope and players were often yanked out of the game quickly after a mistake... and some players had to really really work at getting back into Miller's rotations.

Lloyd seems quite the opposite... if he thinks you are ready to play.... he gives you plenty of chances to prove yourself.

I think both styles work both for and against players.

I believe Kerr would have had much more bench time this season due to his tendency to make some questionable plays / shots (at least early on) if Miller was coaching. This might have translated into fewer mistakes and have made Kerr into a more efficient player. Tommy doesn't appear to have a problem with some of Kerr's bad decisions

Also I think about this in terms of Ballo (and yes I know Ballo wouldn't be here if Tommy wasn't here... so this is totally hypothetical) Ballo was a bit rough to start the season. I don't think Miller would have had the patience with him (this year) to keep playing him much as we got into Pac 12 games. I do not think Ballo would have been given the opportunities this year to become the player he has under Llyod

Just a thought that was crossing my mind.

I totally agree. I'm almost certainly going to mangle the concepts here, and maybe younger more nimble minds can correct me, but is it that Miller is algorithmic and Lloyd is Boolean? Coders and engineers help me out here.

Alieberman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:04 am Disclaimer: This isn't a post of who's better or shitting on anyone

To me- the biggest difference between Miller and Llyod (besides pace of play) is the amount of rope they give to their players. Miller had a notorious short rope and players were often yanked out of the game quickly after a mistake... and some players had to really really work at getting back into Miller's rotations.

Lloyd seems quite the opposite... if he thinks you are ready to play.... he gives you plenty of chances to prove yourself.

I think both styles work both for and against players.

I believe Kerr would have had much more bench time this season due to his tendency to make some questionable plays / shots (at least early on) if Miller was coaching. This might have translated into fewer mistakes and have made Kerr into a more efficient player. Tommy doesn't appear to have a problem with some of Kerr's bad decisions

Also I think about this in terms of Ballo (and yes I know Ballo wouldn't be here if Tommy wasn't here... so this is totally hypothetical) Ballo was a bit rough to start the season. I don't think Miller would have had the patience with him (this year) to keep playing him much as we got into Pac 12 games. I do not think Ballo would have been given the opportunities this year to become the player he has under Llyod

Just a thought that was crossing my mind.

Definitely an interesting thought experiment.

I think that if CSM were still here Akinjo would be PG, Karisa would be getting about 10 minutes per game...

... and, again, just my hypothesis, we would not be a TOP-10 team or leading the conference!

Miller would have had more of an issue with Kriisa’s defense at times than his offense. For instance he keeps opening his hips and allowing guys to beat him baseline instead of sliding into their path. I doubt Miller would stomach seeing that too many times.

But Miller would be able to replace him with Akinjo. Lloyd doesn’t have that luxury so he has to give Kerr more rope by default.

Have to think that his cool calm demeanor helps settle the team and not tense up

And within that Aw Shucks cool demeanor he says things like "Let 'er rip." and it's oddly incongruous. It's like hearing Ward Cleaver or Mr. Rogers do Rap.

The Aw Shucks Assassin.

Well ain't that something

Alieberman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:33 pm Well ain't that something

Yeah, he says that on Twitter, but when push comes to shove, he'll have AZ ranked outside the top 10 and Lloyd as honorable mention.

Davis and Bilas are probably bffs.

Ignore the haters

Arizona was a huge mess a year ago, after a few years of serious damage from the FBI/NCAA nightmare, a chosen scapegoat for the sports media, especially ESPN, which like it or not is a primary sports media entity. The Arizona brand was severely damaged. So, while Arizona is a top-tier program historically over the past 4 decades, its reputation was in disrepair. A year later, Lloyd has a top-five team and the respect of the media, and he has rebuilt the brand overnight. Not a small feat. He should get coach of the year, but it will end up with another coach.

I hope someday next year the Aw Shucks Assassin will be in a live ESPN interview replete with fawning ESPiNners and softball questions in which Tommy blithely says ..... " I mean, well yeah, maybe, I guess, but I don't really think much about it any more than I think about how you guys ass-fucked Sean Miller like it was your job. My job is to teach kids to play basketball."

what if Boy Genius wins them all the rest of the way?

midnightx wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:06 pm Arizona was a huge mess a year ago, after a few years of serious damage from the FBI/NCAA nightmare, a chosen scapegoat for the sports media, especially ESPN, which like it or not is a primary sports media entity. The Arizona brand was severely damaged. So, while Arizona is a top-tier program historically over the past 4 decades, its reputation was in disrepair. A year later, Lloyd has a top-five team and the respect of the media, and he has rebuilt the brand overnight. Not a small feat. He should get coach of the year, but it will end up with another coach.

Very well put! BD.

I love that the top 2 teams are on the west coast. Fuck all the east coast bias in the media

midnightx wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 5:06 pm Arizona was a huge mess a year ago, after a few years of serious damage from the FBI/NCAA nightmare, a chosen scapegoat for the sports media, especially ESPN, which like it or not is a primary sports media entity. The Arizona brand was severely damaged. So, while Arizona is a top-tier program historically over the past 4 decades, its reputation was in disrepair. A year later, Lloyd has a top-five team and the respect of the media, and he has rebuilt the brand overnight. Not a small feat. He should get coach of the year, but it will end up with another coach.

It'll depend on the tournament results - both Lloyd's and his competitors'.

Make the FF and he's a lock. Flame out in the first weekend and it slips his grasp. Somewhere in between and it's a toss up dependent on the other coaches' success.

When do they vote?

March 10th - cut down to 10
March 23rd - cut down to 4
April 3rd - winner announced

I can’t fathom how Tommy is not coach of the year at this point. When he wins the pac and gets a one seed it should be unanimous.

If he goes undefeated to end the regular season, and if Arizona enters the tourney with 2 losses, they should draw plans for a second statue outside of McKale.

There isn’t a single media member who thought this could have been done year 1. Not a single person.

Alieberman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:04 am Disclaimer: This isn't a post of who's better or shitting on anyone

To me- the biggest difference between Miller and Llyod (besides pace of play) is the amount of rope they give to their players. Miller had a notorious short rope and players were often yanked out of the game quickly after a mistake... and some players had to really really work at getting back into Miller's rotations.

Lloyd seems quite the opposite... if he thinks you are ready to play.... he gives you plenty of chances to prove yourself.

I think both styles work both for and against players.

I believe Kerr would have had much more bench time this season due to his tendency to make some questionable plays / shots (at least early on) if Miller was coaching. This might have translated into fewer mistakes and have made Kerr into a more efficient player. Tommy doesn't appear to have a problem with some of Kerr's bad decisions

Also I think about this in terms of Ballo (and yes I know Ballo wouldn't be here if Tommy wasn't here... so this is totally hypothetical) Ballo was a bit rough to start the season. I don't think Miller would have had the patience with him (this year) to keep playing him much as we got into Pac 12 games. I do not think Ballo would have been given the opportunities this year to become the player he has under Llyod

Just a thought that was crossing my mind.

Agree with your take 100%.

Funny part....Few is more like Miller with tight leash. Few didn't need Ballo to play heavy minutes but also didn't seem to develop him like I thought he could. Tommy puts up with more "learning moments" allows players to play through.

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:50 am But Miller would be able to replace him with Akinjo. Lloyd doesn’t have that luxury so he has to give Kerr more rope by default.

All of this pretty much true but what you're ignoring is that Miller likely would've brought in players that would've played over the younger guys like every other year.

Terrell Brown is likely still here and playing over the younger guys. So is Akinjo. Is Brown still here and playing over Koloko? I think other than Mathurin and Tubelis all of the younger guys this year could've been on the bench and not playing over this years version of Kadeem Allen, Jeter, Brown, Anderson, Akinjo, Lyons etc etc etc

RondaeShimmy wrote: ↑Wed Feb 23, 2022 1:04 pm

Chicat wrote: ↑Sun Feb 20, 2022 11:50 am But Miller would be able to replace him with Akinjo. Lloyd doesn’t have that luxury so he has to give Kerr more rope by default.

All of this pretty much true but what you're ignoring is that Miller likely would've brought in players that would've played over the younger guys like every other year.

Terrell Brown is likely still here and playing over the younger guys. So is Akinjo. Is Brown still here and playing over Koloko? I think other than Mathurin and Tubelis all of the younger guys this year could've been on the bench and not playing over this years version of Kadeem Allen, Jeter, Brown, Anderson, Akinjo, Lyons etc etc etc

Terrell Brown transferred before Miller was even fired, he was going no matter what.